Nodes and guards in a world of magic (huge desire of mine)

So one thing that bothers me in alot of mmorpgs is that you have magic in abundance yet when you go to a city, base, town, village whatever... you're made to feel safe with the npc guards that are there. Sort of a feeling of security and a symbol of power and influence for that particular area. Yet for some reason all the npc guards are melee users. Sword and shield in mail/plate armor or whatever they wear. I see this all the time and it bothers me because I think adding flavorful guards spices it up a ton for such a simple addition, it's not a daunting task for developers to add since the makings are all already there ( i only say that because it always baffles me why they rarely do it.) and you can go the extra mile.

As a node gains power and influence I think it would make sense that it attracts the attention of beings that the ruling race of the node would be familiar with that also seek protection and to aid in the battles to come. It could also be an addition to things that Mayors can buy with taxes. To show that this node is a prominent node with a strong backbone.

Heres my suggestion

Every race has it's own sort of elite guard npcs that spawn around node level 5 for example

Upon Node level 5 a couple ents patrol the streets of a py'rai node, stomping around you truly feel like you are in a node that is bonded and protected by nature itself. A sort of cool addition to show players that this node is truly a symbol of power in the area, rather than just some guards in shiny plate armor.

Kaelar- Knight Templars (large mounted Paladins that off heal and use a lance)
Vaelune- Scorpion Riders (Riders that use the scorpion to fight for them)
Py'rai- Ents (Massive ancients of the forest, bind enemies in roots and deal crushing blows)
Empyrean-Juggernauts (Gold plated arcane magic being crafted by the elves, do ranged damage and melee)
Dunir- Stone Golems patrol nodes (highly tanky units, draw aggro and dish out high damage)
Nikua- Mud Golems/ Water elementals (aoe ability to slow enemies movement/attack speed)
Vek- Cave trolls (Bulky but with moderate aoe damage)
Ren'kai- Berserkers (Massive ogre like orcs, High single target damage, low defenses)
Tulnar- Gorgons (the monster kind not the medusa kind maybe even do a tribute to the ones we see in Stranger Things)

and my ideas could go on but these are just examples I quickly thought up but this is the general idea I'm going for

ETC ETC all with their own flavorful and unique movesets. And don't get me wrong I think it's okay to have the guards in shiny plate but I don't think that should be all we see. This is a world rich in magic and many can harness that power, I'd love to see magic using guards and patrols aswell. I think things like this could add so much flavor and it wouldn't take to much manpower in the development area.

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Scarctic

I guess the magic users didn't want to be part of the filthy pleb guards and rather do wizardry stuff than wait for nothing to happen... That makes enough sense to me.

But I agree that they could have thought of other defenses starts helping the guards and the city, like protective shields around the walls, gates, and important buildings, people, and guards.

There should be at least lower supporting magic users with each patrol.
A few wizards positioned at core positions in the Nodes feel disturbances and violence, ready to intervene.
Maybe a magic guild will help with the organization of all duties in the node.

I also like the idea of special racial summons or trained elites patrolling the high-end nodes for safety and support in the environment. It makes sense.

I would like to add to that:

We need NPCs to interact with each other more.

Does anyone know V Rising?
Their concept of the game world is like a giant RPG MOBA with an in-depth castle housing, gathering, and crafting system combined with pvp castle sieging, and POI raiding with boss fights.
The whole map is filled to the brim with lore about NPC factions, fighting you the vampires, and each other for reasons like bandits against soldiers, undead against the living, and any hostile creature against other NPCs.
They roam around in patrols fighting each other, even the bosses fight from time to time it is a blast to see what can happen sometimes when a holy archer meets with the undead reaper boss in the iron mines or the harpies who raid the vineyards attacking the patrolling guards there.

We need more small-spread chaos encounters in the world not just between the players.
The NPCs should be an example to us. :'D

Enigmatic Sage

Guard race percentile should be part of the racial dominance in node design.

Dryadez

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Guard race percentile should be part of the racial dominance in node design.

I wouldn't mind seeing a mix of guard races since they said there will be a mix of buildings depending on racial contribution to the node.

I think people under estimate how much atmosphere guards and things of the like add to a town/city etc

renadedante

Dryadez wrote: »

@renadedante could probably think of a good Tulnar one

Sorry for such a late reply! Usually I got a notification for the forums but it seems it completely ignored emailing me for like a week. lol!

I definitely like the idea of having racially themed specialty npcs. I also think the as mentioned in a few other comments that the type of node should also help add a bit more specialty.

For tulnar [no node specialty], gargoyles could be very cool, could even be more like gorgon type creatures. I do think it would be very nice to see not just melee guards. Thinking from a fantasy standpoint I would be more scared to get frozen to the ground from a mage or maybe like a quicksand spell instead of the typically melee charge or just knockdown.

Thinking of divine node type of guards, I think it would be interesting if they have a like sense or higher aggro reach for those that are corrupted.

On a slight side note, I also think that typical defensive options should be more flexible based on node type and racials if possible. Having like man eating plants, thorns, mushroom that have like paralyzing spores, as like stationary defensive options in the underrealm could be cool as well. Obviously I get that we can't get too crazy with everything, just some random ideas!

Also what a good mix of ideas in this forum, wish I would have seen this sooner!

Vaknar

Great back and forth going on in this thread, which is so fun to read through c:

Are there any other 'Why is this always the case, and could it be done differently?' ideas yall can think of?

Dripyula

It would definitely be nice and cool to have special kinds of node-Guards who also resemble a notable variety of combat classes in the game, to make their look more immersive.
Not just melee's indeed.

Azherae

I guess the only contribution I have to this thread is actually that I don't experience this.

BDO - Guards are definitely implied to be competent, their magical abilities mostly come down to where they live. You don't generally see them actually do anything though, it's not that kind of game.
Elite Dangerous - It's a game about ships. NPCs must have ships. There's very little distinction outside of 'factional stuff'. The best 'guards' and the best 'pirates' largely fly the same ships, with some limitation for AI simplification or something.
FFXI - The exact opposite of the OP's concern. Not only do all the 'guards' supposedly know magic if they come from one of the places where that's the main concept, there are entire batallions of NPC casters for certain things. Every combat NPC has the same 'classes' as players available. "Heroic" ones are even stronger.

Most other similar games I've played are closer to BDO where the NPCs don't actually engage in combat, but they're definitely implied to be similar to players in strength or capacity to do so, such as TL, Neverwinter, Onigiri, (and if you go further away from stricter definitions) Skyforge, The Division, etc.

Basically, to me, this is the norm, not the exception, so I just end up with the feeling of 'huh? Just do it how it's normally done'.

Dryadez

renadedante wrote: »

Dryadez wrote: »

@renadedante could probably think of a good Tulnar one

Sorry for such a late reply! Usually I got a notification for the forums but it seems it completely ignored emailing me for like a week. lol!

I definitely like the idea of having racially themed specialty npcs. I also think the as mentioned in a few other comments that the type of node should also help add a bit more specialty.

For tulnar [no node specialty], gargoyles could be very cool, could even be more like gorgon type creatures. I do think it would be very nice to see not just melee guards. Thinking from a fantasy standpoint I would be more scared to get frozen to the ground from a mage or maybe like a quicksand spell instead of the typically melee charge or just knockdown.

Thinking of divine node type of guards, I think it would be interesting if they have a like sense or higher aggro reach for those that are corrupted.

On a slight side note, I also think that typical defensive options should be more flexible based on node type and racials if possible. Having like man eating plants, thorns, mushroom that have like paralyzing spores, as like stationary defensive options in the underrealm could be cool as well. Obviously I get that we can't get too crazy with everything, just some random ideas!

Also what a good mix of ideas in this forum, wish I would have seen this sooner!

I'd love to see guard difficulty rise with the nodes level, and that they play a part in sieges aswell to give more home field advantages. I also try to stay within the realm of "not getting to crazy"

So the idea of guards difficulty rising with node level could be just increasing guard level by +10 every time it advances, but I love the idea of race specific benefits like mushroom spore mines and thorns (think to Middle Earth:shadow of war-- your fortress upgrades you could have poison mines or fire mines) maybe something to add down the road!

Azherae wrote: »

I guess the only contribution I have to this thread is actually that I don't experience this.

BDO - Guards are definitely implied to be competent, their magical abilities mostly come down to where they live. You don't generally see them actually do anything though, it's not that kind of game.
Elite Dangerous - It's a game about ships. NPCs must have ships. There's very little distinction outside of 'factional stuff'. The best 'guards' and the best 'pirates' largely fly the same ships, with some limitation for AI simplification or something.
FFXI - The exact opposite of the OP's concern. Not only do all the 'guards' supposedly know magic if they come from one of the places where that's the main concept, there are entire batallions of NPC casters for certain things. Every combat NPC has the same 'classes' as players available. "Heroic" ones are even stronger.

Most other similar games I've played are closer to BDO where the NPCs don't actually engage in combat, but they're definitely implied to be similar to players in strength or capacity to do so, such as TL, Neverwinter, Onigiri, (and if you go further away from stricter definitions) Skyforge, The Division, etc.

Basically, to me, this is the norm, not the exception, so I just end up with the feeling of 'huh? Just do it how it's normally done'.

Aaa I never played any of those.

I played Gw1, Gw2, WoW, eso, other misc smaller mmos where the worlds had all this magic and powerful civilizations that for some reason could only have very basic military protection in their towns. I think seeing a battlemage or something of the sort in patrols or on guard every so often adds alot to a game.

I played RIFT alittle bit at release and to their defense their cities which were open for world pvp had a good mix of guards both magic, ranged and melee. It makes you feel safer and more secure in a world where you can be in your cities but it doesn't necessarily mean you're completely safe from harm.

WoW is arguably the worse with this, very lazy design here. All cities and hubs spawn the same guards, just different levels with no racial flavor added except a small bias to horde where orc/tauren guards have 2 abilities but they barely make a difference and ironforge guards have 2 abilities that they rarely use.

Other then that, all guards have the same stats and are equally as useless when it comes to actually protecting anything. The games I'm use to unfortunately never put much thought or effort into this area

Dryadez

Dripyula wrote: »

It would definitely be nice and cool to have special kinds of node-Guards who also resemble a notable variety of combat classes in the game, to make their look more immersive.
Not just melee's indeed.

kind of responding to this as a way to bump, thanks!

Dryadez

We got alot of new people on the forums, instead of making a new thread figured id dust this one off

Azherae

Well, if you haven't had a chance to experience it in the Alpha, Ashes is fitting well for me. Basically, the guards and NPC defenders in Ashes are much closer to what I described I normally experience, than your description of what you normally see.

Casters and melee, to be clear. If you get into trouble outside a town or outpost, the best option is to run toward it, or sometimes to run toward the last place you saw a defense patrol. I think that last time I tested seriously, you could even get some exp if it was just 'you got into trouble and had to flee without finishing off a mostly-beaten enemy'.

You still got some of the exp if the guards finished off the Goblin or whatever it was.

Dryadez

Azherae wrote: »

Well, if you haven't had a chance to experience it in the Alpha, Ashes is fitting well for me. Basically, the guards and NPC defenders in Ashes are much closer to what I described I normally experience, than your description of what you normally see.

Casters and melee, to be clear. If you get into trouble outside a town or outpost, the best option is to run toward it, or sometimes to run toward the last place you saw a defense patrol. I think that last time I tested seriously, you could even get some exp if it was just 'you got into trouble and had to flee without finishing off a mostly-beaten enemy'.

You still got some of the exp if the guards finished off the Goblin or whatever it was.

This is good news! I cannot play, not that I don't want to but not good timing for me. So I do like to hear they are adding magic into the mix.

Aszkalon

Dryadez wrote: »

Kaelar- Knight Templars (large mounted Paladins that off heal and use a lance)
Vaelune- Scorpion Riders (Riders that use the scorpion to fight for them)
Py'rai- Ents (Massive ancients of the forest, bind enemies in roots and deal crushing blows)
Empyrean-Juggernauts (Gold plated arcane magic being crafted by the elves, do ranged damage and melee)
Dunir- Stone Golems patrol nodes (highly tanky units, draw aggro and dish out high damage)
Nikua- Mud Golems/ Water elementals (aoe ability to slow enemies movement/attack speed)
Vek- Cave trolls (Bulky but with moderate aoe damage)
Ren'kai- Berserkers (Massive ogre like orcs, High single target damage, low defenses)
Tulnar- Gorgons (the monster kind not the medusa kind maybe even do a tribute to the ones we see in Stranger Things)

This Idea is awesome - and should such a thing ever be realised -> it can even get improved/widened for more Variety over time.

Like some Kae'lar Nodes have Viking-styled Guards. Or more Desert-styled Guards like Vae'lune.

Py'rai should be able to switch from Ents to different Forces/Beings of Nature.

Ren'kai should be able to have actual Ogres, too - if the World/Lore/Nature of Verra allows it.

And so on

and so on.

Arya_Yeshe

AnimusRex wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Your idea has appeal.

What enfuriates me about guards in towns is that they are so stoic, always there, always ready, they are never drunk or taking bribes

So... you want these elite guards to be drunk and bribable?

Stoic , present and ready is kind of the Guard job description.

But robotic behavior ruins everything

Maybe, like Killian said, there could be policies for the guards, but that would increase upkeep. I don’t know, maybe just buy them coffee so they don’t fall asleep on the job or something, there's a cost to that

Low salaries policy, but then they take bribes more often and so on

It doesn’t have to be overly complex. Here’s a good idea:

Supervisor Guard: moves from squad to squad, making sure all the guards are awake and doing their jobs properly. Maybe some guards fall asleep or get a little tipsy around town. Maybe they even steal or pickpocket players.

Hell yeah, let guards pickpocket citizens! Just make the supervisor stoic and robotic.
Overall guards could commit crimes sometimes too, they should at least steal and they could do other funny things

If the mayor doesn’t want to pay for the Supervisor edict, or if the node can’t enact it, then the guards could end up acting more like a mafia faction. Maybe they would look away when the enemy node shows up and ignore enemies walking on the streets if your enemies pay bribes

Maybe you kill a mob and guards nearby will run for the loot and say it was confiscated

Arya_Yeshe

Pay gold to the guard to ignore crimes for a certain period of time
Guards often pickpocket non-citizens, while citizens are rarely affected
Guards steal loot and say it was confiscate
Guards can be bribed so they will ignore node enemies and enemies of the state
Guards accept bribes to pose as your companions, aiding you in attacking war targets
Guards sell confiscated items, including loot stolen from mobs and players, at 50% off
Guards get drunk and get a 50% penalty on everything
Guards be taking naps

Guards, by default, should behave like a criminal gang in town, a group of leeches who constantly abuse their power. The mayor can enact policies to straighten them out as much as possible, but the guards should never be completely perfect

If the node runs out of gold and resources for the edicts then social order should collapse, turning your node into a dysfunctional, impoverished state

Aszkalon

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Pay gold to the guard to ignore crimes for a certain period of time

Guards often pickpocket non-citizens, while citizens are rarely affected

Guards steal loot and say it was confiscate

Guards can be bribed so they will ignore node enemies and enemies of the state

Guards accept bribes to pose as your companions, aiding you in attacking war targets

Guards sell confiscated items, including loot stolen from mobs and players, at 50% off

Guards get drunk and get a 50% penalty on everything

Guards be taking naps

Guards, by default, should behave like a criminal gang in town, a group of leeches who constantly abuse their power. The mayor can enact policies to straighten them out as much as possible, but the guards should never be completely perfect

If the node runs out of gold and resources for the edicts then social order should collapse, turning your node into a dysfunctional, impoverished state

This sounds AWESOME actually -> but how to justify that ? Is the Node a Crime-Syndicate's secret Base ?

Arya_Yeshe

Aszkalon wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Pay gold to the guard to ignore crimes for a certain period of time

Guards often pickpocket non-citizens, while citizens are rarely affected

Guards steal loot and say it was confiscate

Guards can be bribed so they will ignore node enemies and enemies of the state

Guards accept bribes to pose as your companions, aiding you in attacking war targets

Guards sell confiscated items, including loot stolen from mobs and players, at 50% off

Guards get drunk and get a 50% penalty on everything

Guards be taking naps

Guards, by default, should behave like a criminal gang in town, a group of leeches who constantly abuse their power. The mayor can enact policies to straighten them out as much as possible, but the guards should never be completely perfect

If the node runs out of gold and resources for the edicts then social order should collapse, turning your node into a dysfunctional, impoverished state

This sounds AWESOME actually -> but how to justify that ? Is the Node a Crime-Syndicate's secret Base ?

How do you justify guards that are stoic and robotic in their behavior? Touché.

I thin k guards have to be a bit more human: flawed, relatable, and part of the living world. This will adds depth to the game and also gives the node’s leadership some degree of responsibility in managing public services.

The less oversight the more corrupt and unpredictable guards become. Without supervision, they might engage in unethical behavior, like sleeping on duty, harassing citizens, or pickpocketing players, ninja looting, taking bribes and so on.

Maybe the mayor could choose to skim profits from guard corruption or send them to the node’s coffers, opening the door for some mayors to become secret mafia bosses. If crime rises and the mayor turns a blind eye, guilds might retaliate by declaring war on his guild and lynch mobbing him out in the streets. Power should come with consequences.

I think this is great for player content and milk some more from violence and civil war within the node.

Aszkalon

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

How do you justify guards that are stoic and robotic in their behavior? Touché.

Not really. But i think i get your Point.

" PERFECT " Guards are unrealistic. And the Guards are pretty much behaving "perfectly right now".

There IS - NO - "perfect" Person.
People can get corrupt.
People can abuse their Power.

The Townsguard is a "Force". Hired Muscle and Readiness to use force.
Such a thing can bring the Temptation of abusing the Power given.

Guards must be checked and supervised if they are working as intended.

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I thin k guards have to be a bit more human: flawed, relatable, and part of the living world. This will adds depth to the game and-

I get it.

Enigmatic Sage

Dryadez wrote: »

We got alot of new people on the forums, instead of making a new thread figured id dust this one off

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