I suppose this is personal and subjective, and there are pros and cons to all kinds of loot drop mechanisms.
From an anecdotal perspective, a piece of loot that is exceptionally rare feels all the sweeter when it drops, provided that the next best item isn't abysmal by comparison.
I also enjoy the fact that sometimes, you can just get really really lucky. As a former rare mount farmer from older WoW - when I got the Baron's mount I lost my mind, it felt absolutely incredible. Equally, when I run dungeons for set items and it takes a long time and a lot of runs for it to drop, and even then I'm rolling against others, it adds this kind of tension that feels so damn satisfying to release when you finally get *the* item.
I do think modern gamers to trend towards frequent dopamine hits with lots of incremental drops, but personally, I love a grind, I love cool gear being rare as hell so it feels all the sweeter to walk around wielding it - much better than seeing a city full of people all using the same sets and weapons.
I'm certain others opinions will vary, these are mine and are entirely personal.
I'm looking for rare/interesting drops at random and everywhere throughout the node. What does that mean? That means you can find things literally everywhere, not just during big raids or super difficult boss kills or during events. That is what makes it truly a surprise and not an expectation. It keeps the world fresh and makes you want to keep exploring. You also need to make sure the drops don't repeat their drop locations...ever so that they can't be put online and stalked for the drops.
I think the opinions will vary based on how much time someone has to invest in the game. If you're freely able to grind it to degenerate levels, then having rare loot truly be rare seems very enticing, because there's a better chance you can stand out simply by playing more often.
If you're really short on time then it can feel rough to progress extremely slowly because you never luck out on drops. I'm reminded of people grinding for Savage Gladiator Chain in classic WoW for literally hundreds of runs and never seeing it once. That being said, the trading economy is certainly more interesting when you have items with real value in the mix, and maybe casual players can equalize it slightly by focusing on a craft.
I really dislike Loot-Systems where you are spammed with tons of meaningless items as well as systems where top-tier items are freely available.
Classic WoW was on spot when it comes to my preferences for Loot-drops but didnt have enought alternatives to Boss-Drops. They essentially only had Boss-Drops from raids + PvP-HighRanks which was rather poor especially since there were crafting-professions that couldnt provide anything meaningful.
There should be crafting and reputation and crafting and World-Bosses and superrare-random-WorldDrops and did I mention crafting? And Iam sure there are tons of other ideas.
But! many potential sources of good items should not be equal freely available good items.
I very much prefer systems where the absolute top end gear is obtainable by pretty much everyone, given some time and effort. Think Dark age of Camelot pre Trials of Atlantis, for example, where you got your 100% gear from the crafters, and had it overcharged and customized to your liking. Combined with the hard caps on stats, this is a much superior system to the gear treadmill style that WoW-like games have.
This would also change the focus of the game from the personal, selfish gear chase gameplay to players actually caring more about the nodes and sieges and bigger picture stuff, as well as non-gear character progression, which is what will make the game really shine. ESO and GW2 also come to mind as games that don't focus on the gear treadmill.
I know I am not getting this superior system in Ashes, but, here are my suggestions to improve the currently suggested system a little:
Either make legendary items legendary in name only, and make them obtainable for pretty much everyone that aren't ultra-casual, or make them so hard and expensive to get and maintain, that only around 100 items exist on a server at any given time. For unique legendaries, a handful at most.
On top of that, reduce the base stat increase of legendary items from the proposed 6-12% to 0-2%, and make them cooler looking or give them horizontal power in the form of utility stuff. Turn them into bragging rights, basically, not more power.
If you're going the route of limiting the amount of legendary items in the world, make epic or heroic items fairly ubiquitous and achievable by the vast majority of players. Intrepid is building this amazing world with a complex node system. That should be the focus of the game, not the gear chase.
I would prefer lowering the amount of item tiers and changing their names, to better match the more readily available amount of top end gear.
How do you feel when it comes to rare loot? Do you prefer when rare mobs and boss mobs drop something interesting often or less often?
I think rarity has been watered down in MMOs over the last 20 years to colors and stats, and frankly it's just a boring treadmill mechanic. I'd rather 'rare' loot be able to either do something rare or provide a rare augment to my skills.
A few examples:
- ring of double jump
- deck of many familiars (you get a badger, you get a badger, you get a badger, EVERYONE GETS BADGERS)
- boots of passage (no slipping)
- gloves of climbing (faster mantle speed)
- Elsa's amulet (augment all attacks with frost)
Crafters can make all the purples, rare drops need to provide something idk - RARE - that's worth keeping well past the 8th DLC.
Then calibrate rarity based on the benefit of the provided ability. Imagine how awesome double-jumping would be as a ranger. Now how many of those folks do you want logged in at any given time?
Personal experience. I don't mind some grind. But I remember having to run Maelstrom Arena over 200 times (Which was about 50min at that time per run) just to get a sharpened Inferno staff in ESO... It was brutal.
Again, I don't mind grind, but i prefer a token system that rewards the grind each time instead of just gambling time away in hope of receiving your item. And with enough tokens collected you can simply get the item you worked for.
Agreed. Been at this stuff since UO and Beta tested EQ. 70 kills and no rubicite breastplate on Avatar of Fear, one of the worst mmo feelings ever. Migraine inducing.
imho
==Tokens==
Soloable/small group.
Full group.
Raid.
Might need
50/100+
5/10+
2-10
And ea case they still have a chance at full item.
Hard earns that need patience are okay. Pain because of RNG is not. Perhaps the robust crafter reliance plan will offset this. We can hope.
I very much prefer systems where the absolute top end gear is obtainable by pretty much everyone, given some time and effort. Think Dark age of Camelot pre Trials of Atlantis, for example, where you got your 100% gear from the crafters, and had it overcharged and customized to your liking. Combined with the hard caps on stats, this is a much superior system to the gear treadmill style that WoW-like games have.
This would also change the focus of the game from the personal, selfish gear chase gameplay to players actually caring more about the nodes and sieges and bigger picture stuff, as well as non-gear character progression, which is what will make the game really shine. ESO and GW2 also come to mind as games that don't focus on the gear treadmill.
I know I am not getting this superior system in Ashes, but, here are my suggestions to improve the currently suggested system a little:
Either make legendary items legendary in name only, and make them obtainable for pretty much everyone that aren't ultra-casual, or make them so hard and expensive to get and maintain, that only around 100 items exist on a server at any given time. For unique legendaries, a handful at most.
On top of that, reduce the base stat increase of legendary items from the proposed 6-12% to 0-2%, and make them cooler looking or give them horizontal power in the form of utility stuff. Turn them into bragging rights, basically, not more power.
If you're going the route of limiting the amount of legendary items in the world, make epic or heroic items fairly ubiquitous and achievable by the vast majority of players. Intrepid is building this amazing world with a complex node system. That should be the focus of the game, not the gear chase.
I would prefer lowering the amount of item tiers and changing their names, to better match the more readily available amount of top end gear.
This is how I feel. I want to chase loot but I want to work together getting it. Not being upset another Bard showed up on the raid I'm trying to get a new lute.
And the very best loot should not push a player to the point someone in solid gear could not beat them with skill.
just to add, I absolutely support the original plans of not everyone getting rewards, there should only be single mat/item drops per boss/chest/mobs and players should figure it out how they gonna deal with it, this is a strong selling point about AoC for me, going back to the old ways and not this BS that everyone can get loot, people should need to join guilds, make friends, buy their way, use DKP systems and so on,
and as I said previously, hopefully those drops are mats and not finished items, keep crafting necessary.
prymortalMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Question is wrong for this situation Because regardless of how they drop if a party kills it & 1 person get the item, that person in countless MMO's to date drops out & wont help the group finish getting there drops. "always a innocent I got to go now" will happen & that is the last time you see them until you catch up trying to get the next "big drop".
Anyone who wants to dispute this is clearly a MMO virgin.
Q: - How do you feel when it comes to rare loot? Do you prefer when rare mobs and boss mobs drop something interesting often or less often?
A: - I would like to incentivize players to go out into the world and explore. Nothing less exciting than grinding the same creature or dungeon over and over and over and over.... until I find what I need.
Common loot should be distributed commonly, that makes sense, but rare drops shouldn't be painstakingly rare to drop. I would rather have the enemy spawn less and at random times on random locations and random occasions and drop the rare items always at least once if it makes sense that the creature has them.
Otherwise, it is just frustrating finding a rare but empty loot pinata...
-> Rare opportunity is always better than rare drop chance!
BIS-crafting drops and ofc legendary stuff should be extremely rare, hard to get, and complex to craft by default.
Drop rates can be whatever IF there is a way to get the item outside of a drop. Are mats dropping that allow me to craft the item if it doesn't want to drop? Are sellable items dropping that let me farm gold to simply buy the item if it doesn't drop? I HATE grinding for RNG. I simply won't do it, because my time is wasted. Beating the same boss for hours/days/weeks and finally getting the item doesn't feel good to me. But if the item drop is RNG, and while I'm grinding I'm actually getting useful things to make up for it, then its not so bad. Because every time I beat the boss or dungeon I'm getting mats, gold, currency, etc, then its fine.
Not an MMO, but the only game I've really ever grinded in was a game called Outriders. Drops were RNG, but every run I was getting currency. Currency I could use to reroll a vendor to try and get the item. Now the vendor was RNG too, but currency was plentiful. in 2-3 runs I could reroll. This essentially gave me two chances every run for the item I wanted. The run itself and the currency reward thereafter. I could also use that same currency and other things gained from the runs to upgrade my current gear so that I could still min/max even if the BiS wasn't dropped. In this way, I always felt that my time was rewarded. Every run was useful and because just 1 more run would let me reroll the vendor or whatever, I always wanted to do just one more run.
You man are the pinnacle of a man who doesn't want to work for his money spent at the casino. No lootboxes for you!
But rare loot drops on rare occasions from common enemies I kill anyway are nice.
Common drops to make a bit cash of off and to pay repairs need to be there too.
Now certain rare drops have to be gated by opportunity, skill, social interaction, and intelligence.
I.E. the rare boss that only spawns at night, on a winter day, in a specific desert dungeon, can only be found by a full group of players with all 8 archetypes' utility skills used in a certain order... that's the time when an epic or even legendary item or crafting material shouldn't be also gated by chance because you can't grind it.
Grinding is never fun if the gameplay loop around combat isn't fun and if there are other systems where you don't have to grind.
I rather get surprised by luck and rewarded by skillfully managed opportunities than have to work my ass off with boring redundant content. Who the f... invented this bullcrap named grinding anyway? Oh, Blizzard with Diablo? I had fun playing ARPGs as long as I had a fun challenge with the mates I played with, who gets the best gear the fastest and who kills the most bosses etc. But as I tested several new games without them, I was bored out of the same gameplay loops doing them over and over... Loot pinatas feel great, esp with that sound legendaries make when they drop on the ground. But with no player-driven content and meaningful choices, the whole system wasn't satisfying anymore.
And I don't want to play with these zombified grind lovers anymore...
Question is wrong for this situation Because regardless of how they drop if a party kills it & 1 person get the item, that person in countless MMO's to date drops out & wont help the group finish getting there drops. "always a innocent I got to go now" will happen & that is the last time you see them until you catch up trying to get the next "big drop".
Anyone who wants to dispute this is clearly a MMO virgin.
@prymortal MMO virgin? are you aware of the concept of guild? why tf would you be raiding with randos that drop out after they get the drops lol MMOs are not supposed to be played solo and endgame content 100% is not supposed to be made with random strangers that are not trustworthy,
in every guild I've been part of that was never an issue, sure it happens occasionally, but the guy would get kicked instantly and lose access to a good guild and opportunity for future items, and we'd carry on
Depends on the content, but I would like to keep useless equipment drops to a minimum. FF14 did a good job in keeping that to the absolute minimum it could outside of dungeon or raid drops. However the occassional overworld drop is fun too. Just not like WoW did with entire mob types dropping constant pieces of useless equipment that sell for nothing and are never upgrades.
WoW took the laziest and worst approach to loot imaginable. To the point where nothing is truly that valuable until you get to end game dungeons or raids, and only specific ones. I would prefer that as you are leveling that gear and items had a consistent progression that maintained their value. So the rarer the drops, but more useful the better.
I would prefer that they be super rare whether they group or solo content. However, whenever you encounter one it is almost always an upgrade if it provides the correct stats. Otherwise the means to trade or sell it to others to use would be nice.
So somewhere more than FF14 does. That game only has gear tied to professions or group content. Getting gear in the overworld sometimes when you get lucky is nice. I just don't like having my inventory swamped with a bunch of gear drops with none of those drops being valuable. Their Ui for managing everything is pretty terrible as well. Since you can be every class in the game the equipment locker becomes cluttered very fast.
This is more strict with equipment drops than item drops. I expect mobs to drop items of some kind. It would be nice to keep junk drops to a minimum or get rid of them completely. Junk drops don't serve any purpose in games that have a focus on crafting. Crafting materials replace their purpose in the game in those cases. Since crafting is a big focus in this game junk drops should just not exist. You don't need items just to clutter your limited space if there are so many crafting jobs in the game that they are going to clutter it anyway. It just leads to the game feeling bad to play if you have to go to town every 5 minutes because your inventory is full and half of those are quest items.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited December 2023
I think it depends on the kind of items and what's dropping it.
For the most part, I think items that are viewed as part of a character's progression should drop consistently on kill. I think the exception would come when a mob is easier to farm, you can have rare drops that can be part of a characters progression.
I think you can also have items drop less often when they are not viewed as being tied directly to progression, like the dragon eggs.
1.
I feel like Special Bosses, lets say Bosses from server Events for example should give something unique for everyone that took part. It would just feel bad if you completed a final boss of a server event that will forever change the history of the server and u get 5 gold and a potion. To me rings and chains are perfect for that job because you can have a necklace or ring with a unique effect that helps alot of different builds. With armor and weapons theres more potential for getting something youll just never use and will sell. Thats fine for normal bosses in dngeones or whatever because you can do it again to farm what you want over time. but with these once in a servertime events it would be cool if loot was jewlery or something like a mount/costume. Maybe even a passive ability(that might be too unbalanced).
Example :
An uprising group of kaelar gangsters try to take over an area in the riverlands and its your job to stop them(or help them), bt lets say you want to stop them. At the final stage they send into battle a giant forest dragon. You and your group of local chads and chadees slay the dragon. It drops an egg with a little quest like "find out whats the deal with the egg". In short you bring the egg to a merchant who tells you about a dragon expert who tells you that this kind of forest dragon is not actually from the riverlands but from the magical forest but sometimes babys get smuggeled into the riverland and sold for high prices. The dragon expert offers you a good amount of money for the egg. Now you can sell him the egg or ask why hes willing to give so much money. He tells you that as a dragon expert he is interested in researching the bond between the dragon and the magical forest because forest dragon eggs only break out in the magical forest(hence why babydragons get smuggled and sold for high prices). Now if you didnt sell the egg you can make a journey to the magical forest. When your inside the magical forest your egg breaks out and you finally get the mount/pet babyforestdragon. And everybody who took part in killing the boss gets that egg for example.
2.
The Reason i want 1. to be things like mounts pets costumes etc is basically that for me rarity doesnt matter as much with these in general(there are exeptions) and the rarity is tha tu had u take part of the event wich is liek natural raritry.
With gear itself i like these realy iconic legendarys. As an unexperienced player you should be like "damn thats a cool armor i wish i had that *whisper : where did you get that armor from : ) *".
As an experienced player you should look at a players legendary armor and be like " damn that dude has taken down the last boss on top of the tower of carphin he must tbe a hardcore raider " . Also same with special unique effects for legendarys.
Example :
Mask of terror : some cool looking bizzare mask that fears you everytime when the player appears from stealth/invis and you should just see this mask and be like "imma need alot of cc break"
or
some glowing dagger that is similar to the mask but does like 100% bonus dmg for the next attack when leaving stealth and you should see that glowing dagger and be like " i need some healer on me"
3.
Im a huge fan of having costumes for ranks. I see 0 reason for not giving top weapon/armorsmith, breeder, woodcutter etc of the server a unique costume that lets everybody know whats up. Same thing for server firsts. Also it doesnt have to be costumes always but first server boss kills should give a cool gift like a token or something.
4. Ties into rankings and everything i said before but games seem to forget that pvp exist and pvp players need legendarys too. On the battlefields of verra seeing a player with a pve legendary is cool but seeing someone with the holy sword of longus shlongus that can only be earned through a server wide pvp tournament held every month truely puts fear into the hearts of mere peasant zerglings.
5.
Having legendarys should be like and elite sign for whatever you do respectivly. There wont be a seperation between pvp and pve gear but i would like if there was legendarys that drop in rly difficult dungeons or areas that can basically only be completed by a great pve player and they should effects that are especially helpfull in pve. Likewise there should be Legendarys that can only be earned if you are a great or in cases the best pvp player on the server. I also like unique outfits or armoor for special guild leaders like the guild leader of the guild with most castles or something like that. Also just getting a cape for being guild leader of a guild that owns a castle would be cool.
Also there should be legendary tools that can only be held by great crafters. For example a legendary woodcutting axe made of some realy fine steel (wich u have to buy from a good smith since i see trading and having good sources as a part of being an truely great cratfer) as well as a handle crafted from every type of wood of one of verras continents. Like with pve and pvp u should see it and know this guys a top crafter or gatherer etc. id like something like that for every crafting/gathering etc job.
6.
as for raritys i like : (lets say max lvl is 50)
grey - you start with thisand this is the first thing you see for some time this is not ur usual instatly replace by green stuff. Verra is full of advernturers thieves ans warriors and this is what most of them wear.
green - you wil be full green around lvl 30.
green is high quality. This is what caravan concerns soldiers or adventurer guilds distribute to their newbies. It shows your starting to take thigs serious.
blue - youll be full blue around lvl 50( max lvl). If you see someone with blue gear he can already tell countless storys about the lands of verra. This is what your rocking when you hit max. This is also what most casuals probably gonna have. Up until here everything is achievable with no hardcore content. Casual friendly.
Purple- epic gear
Epic gear is the first sign of a hardcore player. It is recognizable on first glance as being epic gear because it is epic. Having epic gear is not the norm it has to earned from hardcore activitys like pvp, hard dungeaons/deeper harder lvls of dungeons/bosses, events, highest lvl of crafting.
Alot of ppl will never be full purple wich is why blues still good. Hardcore Sweaters will be full purple.
Do you prefer when rare mobs and boss mobs drop something interesting often or less often?
Depends if we talk about resources or cosmetics.
If we talk about cosmetics, make it so that players gets something really interesting every 13 weeks.
If we talk about resources, give us a reason to play even if there is no rare loot or rare mob at all. The design pillars should be a good guideline. Don't make opening the mob inventory be like a "loot box".
The rare loot should always exist somewhere either in form of raw resources, processed materials or already used to make the final item and should be finite on a map. Resource sink must work properly to bring the resources back into the world.
The sink rate could have some fluctuations also influenced by world events or local to areas on the map. These fluctuations are needed and will influence the resource drop rate too.
Overall, when it comes to bosses (be it dungeon or raid content) should have rare drops. that is what brings people back to rekill a lot of this content. But I think this game should have a good amount of "rare" drops even from trash, this is more from a profession perspective. Some of the very high end things to add to that exclusivity of certain crafted pieces should come from getting that really rare drop or proc in animal husbandry. and keeping the rates balanced to a point that it isnt everyone going out for 30 minutes to get it, but also not having everyone give up becuase one drops every 2 weeks is a important thing to consider.
I have good memories from an othervise trash MMO- metin2... 😂
There was an item dropped from normal mobs with very rare droprate ( I think it was around 0,5 % ish..) and the item itsef had a unique feature, which randomly boost its stat from -50% to +50%. The distribution for the stat increasement followed the bell curve, so it means most likely you get around 0%.
So you can imagine, how great was it, when you get one of these item with a good stat. All of the server known you had that unique and awesome weapon. (Drop is already very rare, and on top of it, the random stat with the bell curve distribution...)
I don't know why, but for me it was a really memorable item in my MMO history. I really want to see something similar again!
Well I was watching the the ranger update and there was a statement about how rare drops increases the replay value of dungeouns. Well as it turns out most of the people that will be playing Ashes of Creation are coming for other MMOs. And and some of those MMOs have low drops rates so the low rates do nothing to make keep playing that MMO. I mean People are already grinding rare items in MMOs but that is not why they play game.
There is the school of thought that ounce you get the gear that you want from a dungeoun then their is no incentive to do that dungeoun. So what is going on with that ?. (comes down to incentives and progressive value of game/dugeoun) There was a game called BattleStarGalactica and in that game Some players would buy everything and would and advise players to not to do that cause ounce you got everything the the game changed and you would most likely end up quiting the game no more grind the would lose it progressive value.
But lots of people will still play that game for wait for, wait for, it wait for it drum roll please ..........
FUN.(Now this is kind of a catch all statement maybe redundant. Just make it Fun.)
Well as it turns out players do not play WoW because of all hooks in the game they just tolerate them cause the game is fun. The devs at wow think this but it is more about game play (combat system) and New content.
But lets go back to the idea that ounce you are geared out in dungeoun then it is dead. What happens in the mind of the player is that there is no incentive for them to do it any more. But what actually happened is the dungeoun lost it progressive value.
So if you start thinking it terms of progressive value instead of gear. Then you could have players doing dungeouns even after they have. all the gear from that dungeoun.
Well like what?
I actually posted a lot about this in a Discussion called Keeping people online so you may want to reference that and . But here we go again.
1. Gold Runs now it may seem like a totally unrelated subject. But gold runs in wow for many players involve a player Soloing a low level dugeoun or raid. Plus There are like low level raids that have very rare drops so they do these by themselves as opposes to a group. They do not do max level dungeouns or raids for gold runs cause it is a net loss. You can make a little gold if you do not wipe if you do not use potions. and it is just a little gold. Seen videos about doing 4k an hour gold doing old dungeouns. as campared well if you wipe because of durability costs you might actually lose gold in max level dungouen. I cannot remember how much gold I used to make doing 2 or 3 dugeouns in an hour guessing 300g if all things go well. However if dungeouns were vialble as gold runs for a party of eight people then the replay value would increase. So this is one way to increase the replay value of a dungeon. Raiding inWoW for the most part cost gold there are more wipes.and most likely use potions and elixirs . One of the top guilds in the world put out a video that said (think it was Method) they had a one million gold raidng deficit.
So this is one way to increase the replay of a dungeoun as opposed to very very low drop rates.
I have a lot more to say, but going to play League of Legends now. Good day to you.
I have already posted volumes about increasing the replay value of dungeouns and raids in other Threads ,think rare drops add very little to the replay value a dungeoun
campared to some of the other options I have posted about..
Well I was watching the the ranger update and there was a statement about how rare drops increases the replay value of dungeouns. Well as it turns out most of the people that will be playing Ashes of Creation are coming for other MMOs. And and some of those MMOs have low drops rates so the low rates do nothing to make keep playing that MMO. I mean People are already grinding rare items in MMOs but that is not why they play game.
There is the school of thought that ounce you get the gear that you want from a dungeoun then their is no incentive to do that dungeoun. So what is going on with that ?. (comes down to incentives and progressive value of game/dugeoun) There was a game called BattleStarGalactica and in that game Some players would buy everything and would and advise players to not to do that cause ounce you got everything the the game changed and you would most likely end up quiting the game no more grind the would lose it progressive value.
But lots of people will still play that game for wait for, wait for, it wait for it drum roll please ..........
FUN.(Now this is kind of a catch all statement maybe redundant. Just make it Fun.)
Well as it turns out players do not play WoW because of all hooks in the game they just tolerate them cause the game is fun. The devs at wow think this but it is more about game play (combat system) and New content.
But lets go back to the idea that ounce you are geared out in dungeoun then it is dead. What happens in the mind of the player is that there is no incentive for them to do it any more. But what actually happened is the dungeoun lost it progressive value.
So if you start thinking it terms of progressive value instead of gear. Then you could have players doing dungeouns even after they have. all the gear from that dungeoun.
Well like what?
I actually posted a lot about this in a Discussion called Keeping people online so you may want to reference that and . But here we go again.
1. Gold Runs now it may seem like a totally unrelated subject. But gold runs in wow for many players involve a player Soloing a low level dugeoun or raid. Plus There are like low level raids that have very rare drops so they do these by themselves as opposes to a group. They do not do max level dungeouns or raids for gold runs cause it is a net loss. You can make a little gold if you do not wipe if you do not use potions. and it is just a little gold. Seen videos about doing 4k an hour gold doing old dungeouns. as campared well if you wipe because of durability costs you might actually lose gold in max level dungouen. I cannot remember how much gold I used to make doing 2 or 3 dugeouns in an hour guessing 300g if all things go well. However if dungeouns were vialble as gold runs for a party of eight people then the replay value would increase. So this is one way to increase the replay value of a dungeon. Raiding inWoW for the most part cost gold there are more wipes.and most likely use potions and elixirs . One of the top guilds in the world put out a video that said (think it was Method) they had a one million gold raidng deficit.
So this is one way to increase the replay of a dungeoun as opposed to very very low drop rates.
I have a lot more to say, but going to play League of Legends now. Good day to you.
I have already posted volumes about increasing the replay value of dungeouns and raids in other Threads ,think rare drops add very little to the replay value a dungeoun
campared to some of the other options I have posted about..
what if you have better sources of income, why would you replay the dungeon? repeating a dungeon to farm gold is repeating the dungeon to progress or get an incentive other than fun. it might be fun or it might not be.
just say you want to be able to solo dungeons xD nothing wrong with saying that. also you could still make more gold than what you lose by wiping. that depends on the game.
what if you have better sources of income, why would you replay the dungeon? repeating a dungeon to farm gold is repeating the dungeon to progress or get an incentive other than fun. it might be fun or it might not be.
just say you want to be able to solo dungeons xD nothing wrong with saying that. also you could still make more gold than what you lose by wiping. that depends on the game.
also, ashes will mostly have open world dungeons
There will always be the max gold per hour activity. so lets say the max per hour activity is (insert activity that is not dungeoneering or raidinglike mining or crafting or fishing) let say that is 4k an hour.
And dungeouns and raids actually cost you gold for the most part. But lets say the most gold producing activity yeilds you 4k an hour and dungeouns come out to be 3k an hour net gain. There is a fun factor involved. You may decide to do dungeouns with guildies insteadof the 4k per hour activity. There is also a synergy factor like learning how work together. So dungeouns would not be the best gold source but still vialble as a gold run.
As far as open World dungeouns well how much gold are getting from open world dungeouns if any isit a deficit? If you are trying to get gold to buy some item you at least have the option to get the gold from doing dungeouns or some it.
Any ways I did not mention any thing in my last post about the actual drop rates so lets get into that.
This is actually a repost but as it turns out (heard in some video) the number of times that you would havetod a raid or dungeound to get a mount for a one percent drop it is about 163 times cause numbers repeat. Of course there are unlucky protection systems but lets focus on the number 163. Now if that is a raid that gets locked out every week as is the norm that comes out to 163 weeks but lets say 3 years. However if you are in a raid wiht 15 other poeple or 39 other people then we are looking at way over a decade and possibly no mount.
So for content that has a weekly lock out really think one percent drop is really low and if you can solo it well looking at 3 years.
Now lets look it from the perpective of expansions. WoW comes out with expansions about every 2 years. Lets say Ashes of Creation has a similar time line. So in 4 years you will have the Original game plus two expansions. But let say there are 103 mounts in the orginal game. And lets say 3 of them for whatever reasons the Devs Decided this mounts going to be super rare. Like less than one percent drop rate. Fine. As far as the the other hundred mounts. Those mounts should be attainaible in a period of four years. Reason being there should be plenty of new mounts for players to farm in the two new expansions. Plus this is true If you are the type of player that plays every week if not even more time.
So one thing to consider is how long does it take for a player to get the non super rare mounts. Some mounts you can buy, other comes from quests, others have good drop rates others you have to farm mats for and other are like you have to have a certain currency and so on. So when you add it all up excluding the 3 or 4 or 5 or 6
super rare mounts, How long would it take for the a player to get those 100 mounts.
I was talking about mounts but could be any other set of items in game like armour sets weapons pets and so on.
So i just got talking about loot in content that has weekly lock outs. So how often a player has access to the content matters.
Now lets talk about a slightly different top. Lets say Ashes of Creation made the design decision to put really rare, mega rare items in the game. Well how should they present that.
Well one way to present a really rare item is an event. In WoW there is a yearly event called Love is in the Air and in that event you have a certain number of chances to get this very rare pink rocket mount. I In that game I have a red racket and blue rocket and some other rockets mounts but not the pink one. But it is a really rare mount because you only have a week to farm it and that is it till next year.
Now in Ashes of Creation you may have periods were let say a Winter Dragon spawns and part of the loot table is a very rare pet baby Winter Dragon. But that is not all there is also chance to drop crafting material to make lets say Winter Dragon weapons and armour sets. Im a ranger so lets say I need the crafting material to make a frost bow. Plus should get some gold and standard array of goodies.
So in this loot table you have a chance to win the lottery get the baby White Dragon pet plus a decent chance get crafting material for cosmetic items or real item. Lets a Frost bow was a standard arsenal of a ranger you just had to farm for it for a while.
How long I do not know 3 months. In the Case of a Frost Bow might take 1 or 2 or 3 months to gather the materials. But you will eventually you will have it. For mages you might have frost robes and so on. Might be tradeble. I would not like it if the only reason people come together to kill that dragon is for the super rare drop the hardly drops.
This particalur method is just a number of drops really rare (pet). Semi rare (crafting material) and normal array goodies. Plus it is a really rare pet becuase it only drops for a limited time. Cannot farm it over and over again. Now if you have like 100 people participating in the event then the pet is really rare cause you have to roll against 100 people. But the most important element about this event is one people have to know that the dragon is there and two people have to that it drops some pretty cool loot.
I was watching a video and Video and the Creative Director said somehting about Artifacts. Now in terms of Dungeouns and Dragons artifactsare truly powerful items (I am very familar with the book of artifacst and the tables and the abilities and so on.) Yes they are very powerful items, but one of the most important elements about the super unique or rare artifacts is........The Lore.
I still have a lot more to say but think I am going to get some league of legends in
Good day to you.
In my last post I was talking about The Lore as it pertains to rare items
Well I have watched WoW videos about rarest mounts in the game. And a lot of them are obscure. A lot do not look epic or legendary. Kind of looks kind of random to me. A few of the mounts that are in this WoW I have actually heard and seen in game. But others are just so obscure and non impressive, that the in my mind it is like really that mount is that rare, looks non impressive just a recolor and it is that rare .Really, i just feel sorry for the guy that loves that mount and been farming it for years.
I you want to know what I am talking about just go watch a rarest mount WoW video. Looks kiind of random to me.
So what is the opposite of that. I was talking about WoW do lets talk about an extremely rare mount that kind of make sense. There is a dungeound in game that has a lot of Lore behind calls Strathholme. And the last boss is Lord Aurius Rivendare. Name of the mount is Death Chargers Riens. In WoW it is simply known as Rivendares mount. Just about every one that has played that game has done that dungeound so and know how it looks like cause yhou can actually wee the mount in the dungeoun. (Very important). So if i see some one with that mount especially a death knight It is like a pleasant surprise might actually say something positive postive like. : Cool mount glad it dropped for you. Plus it is kind if nice seeing them in game.
Thing is there other rare mounts in game that are king obscure. The only people that know it is a rare mount are the ones farming it. Plus a lot of the rare mounts do not even look worth farming.
So in one case people actually know that the mount exists. And have actually seen in game. So it has a Role Playing Value . People do call the mount Death Chargers Reins. They call Rivendare´s Mount. In other cases it just seems kind of trivial looks like they were just in there put for the sake of having rare mounts (certain recolor rare) or there is a hundred item loot table and one of those items is mount, hence it has a one percent drop rate.
Alright What does this have to do with Ashes of Creation. Looks like from what The Devs at Inreipid Studios want rare mounts for Role Playing Value. That is a game design decision if that is the way it is going to fine. Lets talk about. How to implement it in the game.
First the mounts that are going to rare sould be identified and there should be Lore about, but it not enough to have Lore about People actually have to know about. It should not be arbiratary. Well like What? Well lets go down that road.
One foreseable candidate for a very rare mount would be. Be a Pheonixian Mount. I mean it is Ashes of Creation and the pheonix is liketh mascot of the game it is in the logo. As it turns out there are magical Pheonix and non Magical pheonix (big avain birds that can be used as mounts. One of the example of this really beautiful mounts are Pandarion Pheonix that were made available in MOP as a reward for Gold Challenge mode Dungeoun completionists. Just google them they look realy good the Unreal Engine 5 versions would be extremeley good. Another example that is really good Anivia skins. Anivia is a champion on League of Legions Some of the skins actually hace the word Pheonix in them like Divinve Pheonix Skin but all pretty good. The Unreal Engine 5 Versions of thid Skins would ve spectacular.
So think Pheonix mounts that are non magical that live out the wild. Should be attainable. (For the purpooses of this post Attainalbe means about 1 year of farming or less. That players still have a chance to partake in the Lore of Ashes of Creation.
As far as the Magical Pheonixian Mounts like lets say the fire version (Fire Bird)
and lets there is also a Frost Version of the mount. Guess you could add other versions but do think it is necessary. Lets make this the ultra rare Mounts in the game: Frost Pheonix and Fire Pheonix. First of all people are pretty familar with Pheonixian Lore trough movies and other content so it would be like instant Lore, as apposed to having to creat it.
In the world of dungeouns and dragons this are legendary creatures. So one way to promote the lore is to have this legendary creatures appear in game (non-killable).
So there would be like sightings of the legendary creatures, players would actually.
see in game. Another way is to have a rarevery poerful. NPC that is a quest giver actually have one of theseMounts. Basically finding ways to show case the mount in game like mabe a statue of it e with plague that says something like legendary Mounts. Plus it should be referenced in game like in books and mentioned by NPC.
So if someone actually had one of these two very it would be a huge deal and of some lucky player actually had both well that would be pretty cool. I think if it was decided to put these two mounts of the game they would be some of the most sought after mounts in the game. What is the opposite of this. Having rare mounts that no even knows about. Some people have not realizing how rare they. No one is really farming except mount collectors.
As far how rare they chould actually be well you take a look as demographics how many people actually have these. I already talked about the years it make to farm this mount. Just as a reminder, if the drop rate is one percent and you are rolling against 100 other people number between 1 and 1000 then your chances 1 in 10,000 to get it.
Guess Ashes of Creation will have to make the cal on that on.
I think this would a good way to present rare Mounts int the game. I kind cheated using the Pheonix mount, cause it is basically insant Lore as opposed to having o creat it and dealing with the problem of actually distrubiting it in game. Some players. are intrested in Lore more interested in combat action part of the game.
Next thing I want to talk about is that it should be determined how many of this rare mount there going to be. Not just incidental. So if there is like 100 mount in game is which is a lot mounts and ten of them are determined to be ultra rare. Well ok that is ten stories lines and fables That have to be put in game like well the legendary Unicorns.
Finally Do not think Ultra Rare mounts should be tied to a single raid. In case of Fire Pheonix or Frost Pheonix looks like most logical place to put them is in a 40 man loot table. Thing not every one does 40 man raid. I suggesed making one forty man raid mor accessable. So if they were put on that loot table since only a small percentage of population would have them. Maybe that is the desired. These mounts can be just as rare by adjusting the drop rate. For example the loot (Magical Pheonixian mounts) Could be tied to World Bosses. So there coule be five different to ways to access a loot table that has these mounts out. Having only one table lets say 40 man raid loot table make the farm just repatative.
I want to talk about the rarest mounts in that are in the videos. How many of them are truely impactful as far as Role Playing Value. Watch those videos and come to your own conclusion. Another thing is in WoW rare mounts to drop and it is not unusual for player to have rare mounts not sure about the ultra rare mounts, but if were to actually log in how many people are actually riding on rare mounts. In my experience I played on the Alliance side and for the most part every on is on a griffin.
Sure some of have a WoW see which mounts players are actually using.
I made this post from the perspective of mounts, But Can be applied to rare gear. Looks like that is already happening with the mention of Aritfacts.
Actually still have more to say about the subject but that is it for now.
In my last post I was talking about tow ultra rare mounts Fire Pheonix and Frost Pheonix. Let me finish that up. I want ot remphasize that the these two mounts should be tied to world bosses (more than one) to avoid repetition. Plus players have more access to it not just peoplel that do 40 man raids but could be tied to both.
The next point I want to make what makes this mount so special. I think that these mounts should have a their own pariticle effects and a trails. For example for the Frost Pheonix lets one of this Mythic creature are flying around in the game (NPC) and you happen to be beneath it the it is snowing at your location. It snows every wwer it Goes. When the Frost Pheonix lands down on the grpimd it should make a frost circle around it. When a Fire bird lands does it leave black ember like foot prints. Of course Fire Pheonix should maybe have golden fire trail behind it sheding sparks and embers wherever it goes. Denoting that yes,, it is a Mythic Legendary mounting that is purposefully set apart from other mounts. That would add a Huge Roleplaying Value to the game. Plus some mounts have venders onthem other are two people mounts and son on. In WoW mounts have a their own animation like roaring and such like depending on the mount called mount special. Really think Mythic Ultra Rare Mounts shoulod have 2 or three of these.
The next point I am going to make How are this mounts going to drop. Let say we are out in open world just killed a world boss and the super ultra rare mounts. Sine we are out in the World. Something like would happend. You would hear a Shriek of in the distance of a Pheonix respawning. You would not know which one dropped until you actually saw. It would start flying toward the group do a fly bye. (NPC flying around a bit showfcasing it beauty. Then after a bit it lands, but when it lands it makes a bit of a shockwave and it waits there. By the way the areas that it is going to land should be high lighted by golden arua/ beam. So it lands it high lighted area waiting for its owner to mount it. And that is the way or similar way Ultra Rare Mounts should drop. Not just walking up to dead world boss and clicking on it.
In summary let say Ashes of Creation does put ultra rare mounts in the game. Think there are to a meeting of which mounts they are going to be and the number of them I picked the number ten out of 100 mount so ten perccent. Ounce these mounts are chosen they should have special effects that normal mount would not have even the way that they drop. Not just putting rare mounts in game for the sake of it. It just seems random in some MMOs.
And a very important part of this Ultra Rare Mounts is the Lore. While you can make the Lore. How are going you make sure that players know about it. I mean you could make a video but if only 3 percent of player population watch that video well the problem still exists. If player sees one of this Ultra Rare Mounts and then it is like every mount, well not too inspiring. When a player sees the mount it should cause Awe and inspirations. A mount that has a tendancy to do this are dragon undead mounts. There is something called an Undead War Beatle (not a mount but a siege weapon frome the D&D Darksun Campain. As soon as a player see one this things they start thinking about the the dark magics involved that it to make it. I mean if the only players that know how rare a mount is the ones farming it not much of an impactful Role Playing Value.
So if Ashes of Creation lets say decided to take this avenue approach or another system that is somewhat similar, then yes I would have to agree that it would have a signaficant Role playing Value and would enhance the MMO experience. But totally against rare mounts in game just to keep players online. Does not even work.
Now while I have been talking about mounts alot. There also going to artifacts in game. But think Ashes of Creation has this covered but have some thing about loot system and how they can be too linear. Talk about next post.
I prefer more frequent low value drops instead of infrequent drops. For instance, a raid kills a Boss. The Boss drops multiple low value drops instead of one more rare drop.
Crafting something that requires that drop just requires more of that to craft, or processors must concentrate the drop before its used in crafting.
Getting more frequent low value drops gives players tangible progress either in gold via sale, or toward crafting a relevant item. This provides both short and long term rewards for players. This would also mitigate "bad luck".
High value drops can be "ninja'ed" all at once. Fractional drops are less likely to be worth the social consequences.
Hello, straight to the point . I love wow classic drop rate of items included BoE world epics. That was best, dropped items had value, even the green ones, rare items - C'mon... Epic - jump out of a chair. I hate raining good eq from the sky.
As for as distributing lore in game one tool that can be used is the log in screen.
Next thing I want to look it is Loot tables. As far as very rare artifacts well the primary purpose of those is Role Playing value not just a state stick and fell Intrepid are going to present them correctly.
But I want to talk about the Loot Table. Who here thinks that lets all the items a ranger or any other class should be equal to the number equipable items. Lets say you have ten slots, so you have one bow, one pair of boots, one,belt, and one helmet, and so on, until you fill all ten slots. Sound kind outrageous. that would be a ten item loot table.
Who would such of thing?. Wait for it........Wait for it..... Wait for it...
Yep you guessed ... Word of Warcraft the King of MMOs
Let me explain it to you. Making post from point of view of Cata WoW .See ounce you get to max level 3 mounths in a short period of time after that 1-2 mounths then this were all max level toons end up at. Farming the 14 raid best in slot items and that is it, as far stat progression goes. All you have to do is add the time it takes to get to max level in Cata it was level 85, Add the time it takes you to get level 85 crafted bow. level 85 normal and herioc dungeoun bow and you were litterally one bow from the end of your statistical progressive value journey as far as the bows are concerned. Similar situation for rest of item slots. Does that enable the replay value dungeouns or raids or the game for that matter. Of course not but what can you say? We are talking about the KING of the MMO word for a very very very long time. Of course they are left wondering how to retain their player base.
Lets just talk about Bows There are actually diffeent themes Frost, Holy Power, Dark magic and so on. As I remember it(Cata raid bow) was a stat stick with good cosmetic value with slight golden aura, when dot time proc ability proced.
Really not setting itself apart from other bows. It is totally linear. Think it would be pretty easy to put deaths bows, frost bows and Holy Power Bows in game. (Themes plus appropiate minor abilities.
After a lets say rare(not talking about artifacts here) bow drops the quality of the weopon could enable it to be upgraded. Additional Perks, and Minor abilities.
As far as perks go you could choose to make indestructable means no more durability cost. Another Perk is cannot be disarmed. Any passive ability that is appropiate to the rangers. Basically you get to custimize your raid drop making it more powerful. With enough options basically make your own magical weopone or make minor artifact.
Should be done through rare crafting material. So how would that work? If the crafting material was tied to same raid that the player got the bow from then think it would just be too repetative. Matter of fact could be rare drop in difficult dingeouns and world bosses so player could have crafting material before the raid bow drop.
Then there would be the part of finding a legendary crafsman in this case a flecther to make it. Could be player with super rare uprade recipe. This is what happens at times in Paper and Pencil Role Playing Games. So this would be Role playing in a Roleplaying video game.
Let me go back to WoW Cata unless you just reached maxed level then entirety of the of the hunter population was farming the the same 14 best in slot items.
Now in Ashes of Creation there are no gear restrictions so that helps but it is still possible for example that all the rangers in Ashes of Creation are farming the same long bow and short bow and (insert other projectile weopon here)
At this point think a made by point. But one other thing to mention is boots.
There are boots of speed (WoW did have enginerring version but tied to profession)
boots of immovabilty. Cannot be knocked backed. (obviously should be on cooldown in an MMO. What about boots that made you immune to all CC for like 1.5
seconds. This would allow casters to finish casting critical spells like. So if you are casting a spell and notice that enemy player is on low health then use this ability so you do not get interupted. You could basically put abilties that are appropiate for talent trees on gear. So instead of have a huge talent tree maybe put it on gear that needs to farmed. What happens when an expansions comes out well that is another discussion.
In a nutshell there is literally not enough gear to farm at max level in standard MMOs
Talking about gear that enhances your combat. Not cosmetic items.
Next topic I want to talk about is my personal experience as far as farming mounts and pets as it turns out my favorite pet in WoW is an ancient blossom (little treant)
and The Grand Expedition Yak. One in the Cash Shop other in Game for Gold. I do not think the fact that I did have to farm them for years diminished how much I liked them. Not even a little bit. Felt grateful that my favorite mount and pet were purchaseable. If other people had them did not matter to me one bit. Felt sorry for guy that was going on six years farming their invincible mount think it was .03 percent drop rare. Think after new expansions come out drop rates for previous rare mounts should increase. Here is a Question for should we discouraged from buying cosmetics items from the cash shop cause it diminishes the value of the item. Or maybe we should buy cosmetics items and but wait 30 days before using the item in game to enhance the equiping experience of the item. Do not think so.
Reason I do not want to play that game is I could not bear the class changes any more. Not just talking about nerfs. It is a very good game just felt like class was constantly being messed with for no good reason.
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ZainoxMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I agree with what others have said with basic mobs and repeatable boss drops.
With the event bosses. I think there should be a decent amount of potential drops and some of that should have a 100% chance, due to how rare these events are gonna be. Such as, crafting resources. I believe this should be 100%, but maybe the amount is varied. I'm not against gear being dropped. But, it still shouldn't be better than end game crafted gear. I personally would like to see a near 100% chance of this. But, maybe the type isn't guaranteed to match your class. which could open things up to selling or trade. Maybe the gear can also break down to have unique crafting recourses. I would also like the gear to have a unique style and look based off of the boss. If we can pass over gear abilities, maybe the gear may have special passives or abilities that can be passed on through crafting. Just adding to the further use for the dropped gear. Lastly, I'm aware that these special event bosses will have super rare drops for things like eggs and recipe's, and I think that's mostly fine. I would like to see the recipe's as a permanent thing once learned, but that's a separate issue.
But it must feel rare not common when you get a Rare drop aswell.
However - it must,
and i really mean it, it " M.U.S.T. " - be above a few, really brainsick Droprates of a certain Company as well, who made a certain MMO that has until today allegedly or apparently the most Players who always return to the Game like a Junkie to his Dealer.
I am now unsubscribed at least for " another Month " again, before i may subscribe for another Round of World-of-Token-Wacraft, again.
Farmed " Tahonta " again, a Mob in Maldraxxus, of the Shadowlands Expansion.
He drops the [Armored Bonehoof Tauralus] Mount.
Dropchance : around 0,6 % Percent.
I farm this Mob with " Four Characters " since around November 20"22" every Month i subscribed - which makes now over Seven Months or so - times 30,
meaning i killed this Mob a good " 210 Times " already, in the Time-Span of over a Year.
There are a few, mentally ill " Drops " like this, in the Game.
He ist he Equivalent of the One Mob of Mc'Caree/Eredath in Legion on Argus -> who drops a Toy, that creates a "magical Barrier" of Energy before the Character casting it.
It's only,
i could farm THAT MOB for over half a Year with Ten Characters until it finally dropped. I bet Dropchance is about the same, maybe higher.
So.
Long Story short.
For how god-damn long am i supposed, to "subscribe" to WoW monthly -> if i want to farm THIS SINGLE MOUNT alone ??
Same as for the [Mawsworn Soulhunter] Mount, which drops from the "Gorged Shadehound" Mob in the Maw, who - well - spawns like once in a Week or so for every Character who can kill him, for a few Days until he is away again.
I am not asking this, to complain, and bitch - and whine.
I am honestly asking this, because i am honest, serious - and curious.
So. For HOW - MANY - YEARS - am i supposed to subscribe - aside from if i would level like +30 or +40 Characters up to the current Maxlevel or just 10 Levels beneath,
to farm some things ??
This is Life-Time i would never get back. And with HOW. MANY. Characters everyday, would i need to farm these few, mentally sick Dropchances with - if i really want to have them ?
Same with a few " Weapon-Illusion Effects ". Emerald Nightmare from Dungeon Boss Scheme of Xavius, only Heroic, also doesn't drop since a full Year ... ...
I say it as calmly and neutral as possible.
As much as i loved World of Token-Warcraft once for many, many Years,
this - " THIS " -> is also one of the Reasons, why i am gone, the Moment that Ashes of Creation hits the Stage.
I can only explain this with the Guess, that Blizzard hates "Casual Players".
If you are not a "Whale", who buys +100 Character Boosts who cost like +59 Dollar/€uro a Boost (lol),
if you are not a "NO-LIFER" who plays this Game as if it is the only Reason he is even here on Earth inside his Life,
if you are a normal Players - Gods above and below -> i don't understand why Blizzard feels so much like putting their Fist into your Face, if you are a Casual Player/Gamer.
Comments
From an anecdotal perspective, a piece of loot that is exceptionally rare feels all the sweeter when it drops, provided that the next best item isn't abysmal by comparison.
I also enjoy the fact that sometimes, you can just get really really lucky. As a former rare mount farmer from older WoW - when I got the Baron's mount I lost my mind, it felt absolutely incredible. Equally, when I run dungeons for set items and it takes a long time and a lot of runs for it to drop, and even then I'm rolling against others, it adds this kind of tension that feels so damn satisfying to release when you finally get *the* item.
I do think modern gamers to trend towards frequent dopamine hits with lots of incremental drops, but personally, I love a grind, I love cool gear being rare as hell so it feels all the sweeter to walk around wielding it - much better than seeing a city full of people all using the same sets and weapons.
I'm certain others opinions will vary, these are mine and are entirely personal.
If you're really short on time then it can feel rough to progress extremely slowly because you never luck out on drops. I'm reminded of people grinding for Savage Gladiator Chain in classic WoW for literally hundreds of runs and never seeing it once. That being said, the trading economy is certainly more interesting when you have items with real value in the mix, and maybe casual players can equalize it slightly by focusing on a craft.
Classic WoW was on spot when it comes to my preferences for Loot-drops but didnt have enought alternatives to Boss-Drops. They essentially only had Boss-Drops from raids + PvP-HighRanks which was rather poor especially since there were crafting-professions that couldnt provide anything meaningful.
There should be crafting and reputation and crafting and World-Bosses and superrare-random-WorldDrops and did I mention crafting? And Iam sure there are tons of other ideas.
But! many potential sources of good items should not be equal freely available good items.
This would also change the focus of the game from the personal, selfish gear chase gameplay to players actually caring more about the nodes and sieges and bigger picture stuff, as well as non-gear character progression, which is what will make the game really shine. ESO and GW2 also come to mind as games that don't focus on the gear treadmill.
I know I am not getting this superior system in Ashes, but, here are my suggestions to improve the currently suggested system a little:
Either make legendary items legendary in name only, and make them obtainable for pretty much everyone that aren't ultra-casual, or make them so hard and expensive to get and maintain, that only around 100 items exist on a server at any given time. For unique legendaries, a handful at most.
On top of that, reduce the base stat increase of legendary items from the proposed 6-12% to 0-2%, and make them cooler looking or give them horizontal power in the form of utility stuff. Turn them into bragging rights, basically, not more power.
If you're going the route of limiting the amount of legendary items in the world, make epic or heroic items fairly ubiquitous and achievable by the vast majority of players. Intrepid is building this amazing world with a complex node system. That should be the focus of the game, not the gear chase.
I would prefer lowering the amount of item tiers and changing their names, to better match the more readily available amount of top end gear.
If you are in a dungions all mobs should have a chance too drop rare loot.
But it must feel rare not common when you get a Rare drop aswell.
I think rarity has been watered down in MMOs over the last 20 years to colors and stats, and frankly it's just a boring treadmill mechanic. I'd rather 'rare' loot be able to either do something rare or provide a rare augment to my skills.
A few examples:
- ring of double jump
- deck of many familiars (you get a badger, you get a badger, you get a badger, EVERYONE GETS BADGERS)
- boots of passage (no slipping)
- gloves of climbing (faster mantle speed)
- Elsa's amulet (augment all attacks with frost)
Crafters can make all the purples, rare drops need to provide something idk - RARE - that's worth keeping well past the 8th DLC.
Then calibrate rarity based on the benefit of the provided ability. Imagine how awesome double-jumping would be as a ranger. Now how many of those folks do you want logged in at any given time?
Agreed. Been at this stuff since UO and Beta tested EQ. 70 kills and no rubicite breastplate on Avatar of Fear, one of the worst mmo feelings ever. Migraine inducing.
imho
==Tokens==
Soloable/small group.
Full group.
Raid.
Might need
50/100+
5/10+
2-10
And ea case they still have a chance at full item.
Hard earns that need patience are okay. Pain because of RNG is not. Perhaps the robust crafter reliance plan will offset this. We can hope.
This is how I feel. I want to chase loot but I want to work together getting it. Not being upset another Bard showed up on the raid I'm trying to get a new lute.
And the very best loot should not push a player to the point someone in solid gear could not beat them with skill.
and as I said previously, hopefully those drops are mats and not finished items, keep crafting necessary.
Anyone who wants to dispute this is clearly a MMO virgin.
A: - I would like to incentivize players to go out into the world and explore. Nothing less exciting than grinding the same creature or dungeon over and over and over and over.... until I find what I need.
Common loot should be distributed commonly, that makes sense, but rare drops shouldn't be painstakingly rare to drop. I would rather have the enemy spawn less and at random times on random locations and random occasions and drop the rare items always at least once if it makes sense that the creature has them.
Otherwise, it is just frustrating finding a rare but empty loot pinata...
-> Rare opportunity is always better than rare drop chance!
BIS-crafting drops and ofc legendary stuff should be extremely rare, hard to get, and complex to craft by default.
You man are the pinnacle of a man who doesn't want to work for his money spent at the casino.
But rare loot drops on rare occasions from common enemies I kill anyway are nice.
Common drops to make a bit cash of off and to pay repairs need to be there too.
Now certain rare drops have to be gated by opportunity, skill, social interaction, and intelligence.
I.E. the rare boss that only spawns at night, on a winter day, in a specific desert dungeon, can only be found by a full group of players with all 8 archetypes' utility skills used in a certain order... that's the time when an epic or even legendary item or crafting material shouldn't be also gated by chance because you can't grind it.
Grinding is never fun if the gameplay loop around combat isn't fun and if there are other systems where you don't have to grind.
I rather get surprised by luck and rewarded by skillfully managed opportunities than have to work my ass off with boring redundant content. Who the f... invented this bullcrap named grinding anyway? Oh, Blizzard with Diablo? I had fun playing ARPGs as long as I had a fun challenge with the mates I played with, who gets the best gear the fastest and who kills the most bosses etc. But as I tested several new games without them, I was bored out of the same gameplay loops doing them over and over... Loot pinatas feel great, esp with that sound legendaries make when they drop on the ground. But with no player-driven content and meaningful choices, the whole system wasn't satisfying anymore.
And I don't want to play with these zombified grind lovers anymore...
@prymortal MMO virgin? are you aware of the concept of guild? why tf would you be raiding with randos that drop out after they get the drops lol MMOs are not supposed to be played solo and endgame content 100% is not supposed to be made with random strangers that are not trustworthy,
in every guild I've been part of that was never an issue, sure it happens occasionally, but the guy would get kicked instantly and lose access to a good guild and opportunity for future items, and we'd carry on
WoW took the laziest and worst approach to loot imaginable. To the point where nothing is truly that valuable until you get to end game dungeons or raids, and only specific ones. I would prefer that as you are leveling that gear and items had a consistent progression that maintained their value. So the rarer the drops, but more useful the better.
I would prefer that they be super rare whether they group or solo content. However, whenever you encounter one it is almost always an upgrade if it provides the correct stats. Otherwise the means to trade or sell it to others to use would be nice.
So somewhere more than FF14 does. That game only has gear tied to professions or group content. Getting gear in the overworld sometimes when you get lucky is nice. I just don't like having my inventory swamped with a bunch of gear drops with none of those drops being valuable. Their Ui for managing everything is pretty terrible as well. Since you can be every class in the game the equipment locker becomes cluttered very fast.
This is more strict with equipment drops than item drops. I expect mobs to drop items of some kind. It would be nice to keep junk drops to a minimum or get rid of them completely. Junk drops don't serve any purpose in games that have a focus on crafting. Crafting materials replace their purpose in the game in those cases. Since crafting is a big focus in this game junk drops should just not exist. You don't need items just to clutter your limited space if there are so many crafting jobs in the game that they are going to clutter it anyway. It just leads to the game feeling bad to play if you have to go to town every 5 minutes because your inventory is full and half of those are quest items.
U.S. East
For the most part, I think items that are viewed as part of a character's progression should drop consistently on kill. I think the exception would come when a mob is easier to farm, you can have rare drops that can be part of a characters progression.
I think you can also have items drop less often when they are not viewed as being tied directly to progression, like the dragon eggs.
I feel like Special Bosses, lets say Bosses from server Events for example should give something unique for everyone that took part. It would just feel bad if you completed a final boss of a server event that will forever change the history of the server and u get 5 gold and a potion. To me rings and chains are perfect for that job because you can have a necklace or ring with a unique effect that helps alot of different builds. With armor and weapons theres more potential for getting something youll just never use and will sell. Thats fine for normal bosses in dngeones or whatever because you can do it again to farm what you want over time. but with these once in a servertime events it would be cool if loot was jewlery or something like a mount/costume. Maybe even a passive ability(that might be too unbalanced).
Example :
An uprising group of kaelar gangsters try to take over an area in the riverlands and its your job to stop them(or help them), bt lets say you want to stop them. At the final stage they send into battle a giant forest dragon. You and your group of local chads and chadees slay the dragon. It drops an egg with a little quest like "find out whats the deal with the egg". In short you bring the egg to a merchant who tells you about a dragon expert who tells you that this kind of forest dragon is not actually from the riverlands but from the magical forest but sometimes babys get smuggeled into the riverland and sold for high prices. The dragon expert offers you a good amount of money for the egg. Now you can sell him the egg or ask why hes willing to give so much money. He tells you that as a dragon expert he is interested in researching the bond between the dragon and the magical forest because forest dragon eggs only break out in the magical forest(hence why babydragons get smuggled and sold for high prices). Now if you didnt sell the egg you can make a journey to the magical forest. When your inside the magical forest your egg breaks out and you finally get the mount/pet babyforestdragon. And everybody who took part in killing the boss gets that egg for example.
2.
The Reason i want 1. to be things like mounts pets costumes etc is basically that for me rarity doesnt matter as much with these in general(there are exeptions) and the rarity is tha tu had u take part of the event wich is liek natural raritry.
With gear itself i like these realy iconic legendarys. As an unexperienced player you should be like "damn thats a cool armor i wish i had that *whisper : where did you get that armor from : ) *".
As an experienced player you should look at a players legendary armor and be like " damn that dude has taken down the last boss on top of the tower of carphin he must tbe a hardcore raider " . Also same with special unique effects for legendarys.
Example :
Mask of terror : some cool looking bizzare mask that fears you everytime when the player appears from stealth/invis and you should just see this mask and be like "imma need alot of cc break"
or
some glowing dagger that is similar to the mask but does like 100% bonus dmg for the next attack when leaving stealth and you should see that glowing dagger and be like " i need some healer on me"
3.
Im a huge fan of having costumes for ranks. I see 0 reason for not giving top weapon/armorsmith, breeder, woodcutter etc of the server a unique costume that lets everybody know whats up. Same thing for server firsts. Also it doesnt have to be costumes always but first server boss kills should give a cool gift like a token or something.
4. Ties into rankings and everything i said before but games seem to forget that pvp exist and pvp players need legendarys too. On the battlefields of verra seeing a player with a pve legendary is cool but seeing someone with the holy sword of longus shlongus that can only be earned through a server wide pvp tournament held every month truely puts fear into the hearts of mere peasant zerglings.
5.
Having legendarys should be like and elite sign for whatever you do respectivly. There wont be a seperation between pvp and pve gear but i would like if there was legendarys that drop in rly difficult dungeons or areas that can basically only be completed by a great pve player and they should effects that are especially helpfull in pve. Likewise there should be Legendarys that can only be earned if you are a great or in cases the best pvp player on the server. I also like unique outfits or armoor for special guild leaders like the guild leader of the guild with most castles or something like that. Also just getting a cape for being guild leader of a guild that owns a castle would be cool.
Also there should be legendary tools that can only be held by great crafters. For example a legendary woodcutting axe made of some realy fine steel (wich u have to buy from a good smith since i see trading and having good sources as a part of being an truely great cratfer) as well as a handle crafted from every type of wood of one of verras continents. Like with pve and pvp u should see it and know this guys a top crafter or gatherer etc. id like something like that for every crafting/gathering etc job.
6.
as for raritys i like : (lets say max lvl is 50)
grey - you start with thisand this is the first thing you see for some time this is not ur usual instatly replace by green stuff. Verra is full of advernturers thieves ans warriors and this is what most of them wear.
green - you wil be full green around lvl 30.
green is high quality. This is what caravan concerns soldiers or adventurer guilds distribute to their newbies. It shows your starting to take thigs serious.
blue - youll be full blue around lvl 50( max lvl). If you see someone with blue gear he can already tell countless storys about the lands of verra. This is what your rocking when you hit max. This is also what most casuals probably gonna have. Up until here everything is achievable with no hardcore content. Casual friendly.
Purple- epic gear
Epic gear is the first sign of a hardcore player. It is recognizable on first glance as being epic gear because it is epic. Having epic gear is not the norm it has to earned from hardcore activitys like pvp, hard dungeaons/deeper harder lvls of dungeons/bosses, events, highest lvl of crafting.
Alot of ppl will never be full purple wich is why blues still good. Hardcore Sweaters will be full purple.
golden-legendary
points 1-5
Depends if we talk about resources or cosmetics.
If we talk about cosmetics, make it so that players gets something really interesting every 13 weeks.
If we talk about resources, give us a reason to play even if there is no rare loot or rare mob at all. The design pillars should be a good guideline. Don't make opening the mob inventory be like a "loot box".
The rare loot should always exist somewhere either in form of raw resources, processed materials or already used to make the final item and should be finite on a map. Resource sink must work properly to bring the resources back into the world.
The sink rate could have some fluctuations also influenced by world events or local to areas on the map. These fluctuations are needed and will influence the resource drop rate too.
There was an item dropped from normal mobs with very rare droprate ( I think it was around 0,5 % ish..) and the item itsef had a unique feature, which randomly boost its stat from -50% to +50%. The distribution for the stat increasement followed the bell curve, so it means most likely you get around 0%.
So you can imagine, how great was it, when you get one of these item with a good stat. All of the server known you had that unique and awesome weapon. (Drop is already very rare, and on top of it, the random stat with the bell curve distribution...)
I don't know why, but for me it was a really memorable item in my MMO history. I really want to see something similar again!
Well I was watching the the ranger update and there was a statement about how rare drops increases the replay value of dungeouns. Well as it turns out most of the people that will be playing Ashes of Creation are coming for other MMOs. And and some of those MMOs have low drops rates so the low rates do nothing to make keep playing that MMO. I mean People are already grinding rare items in MMOs but that is not why they play game.
There is the school of thought that ounce you get the gear that you want from a dungeoun then their is no incentive to do that dungeoun. So what is going on with that ?. (comes down to incentives and progressive value of game/dugeoun) There was a game called BattleStarGalactica and in that game Some players would buy everything and would and advise players to not to do that cause ounce you got everything the the game changed and you would most likely end up quiting the game no more grind the would lose it progressive value.
But lots of people will still play that game for wait for, wait for, it wait for it drum roll please ..........
FUN.(Now this is kind of a catch all statement maybe redundant. Just make it Fun.)
Well as it turns out players do not play WoW because of all hooks in the game they just tolerate them cause the game is fun. The devs at wow think this but it is more about game play (combat system) and New content.
But lets go back to the idea that ounce you are geared out in dungeoun then it is dead. What happens in the mind of the player is that there is no incentive for them to do it any more. But what actually happened is the dungeoun lost it progressive value.
So if you start thinking it terms of progressive value instead of gear. Then you could have players doing dungeouns even after they have. all the gear from that dungeoun.
Well like what?
I actually posted a lot about this in a Discussion called Keeping people online so you may want to reference that and . But here we go again.
1. Gold Runs now it may seem like a totally unrelated subject. But gold runs in wow for many players involve a player Soloing a low level dugeoun or raid. Plus There are like low level raids that have very rare drops so they do these by themselves as opposes to a group. They do not do max level dungeouns or raids for gold runs cause it is a net loss. You can make a little gold if you do not wipe if you do not use potions. and it is just a little gold. Seen videos about doing 4k an hour gold doing old dungeouns. as campared well if you wipe because of durability costs you might actually lose gold in max level dungouen. I cannot remember how much gold I used to make doing 2 or 3 dugeouns in an hour guessing 300g if all things go well. However if dungeouns were vialble as gold runs for a party of eight people then the replay value would increase. So this is one way to increase the replay value of a dungeon. Raiding inWoW for the most part cost gold there are more wipes.and most likely use potions and elixirs . One of the top guilds in the world put out a video that said (think it was Method) they had a one million gold raidng deficit.
So this is one way to increase the replay of a dungeoun as opposed to very very low drop rates.
I have a lot more to say, but going to play League of Legends now. Good day to you.
I have already posted volumes about increasing the replay value of dungeouns and raids in other Threads ,think rare drops add very little to the replay value a dungeoun
campared to some of the other options I have posted about..
what if you have better sources of income, why would you replay the dungeon? repeating a dungeon to farm gold is repeating the dungeon to progress or get an incentive other than fun. it might be fun or it might not be.
just say you want to be able to solo dungeons xD nothing wrong with saying that. also you could still make more gold than what you lose by wiping. that depends on the game.
also, ashes will mostly have open world dungeons
There will always be the max gold per hour activity. so lets say the max per hour activity is (insert activity that is not dungeoneering or raidinglike mining or crafting or fishing) let say that is 4k an hour.
And dungeouns and raids actually cost you gold for the most part. But lets say the most gold producing activity yeilds you 4k an hour and dungeouns come out to be 3k an hour net gain. There is a fun factor involved. You may decide to do dungeouns with guildies insteadof the 4k per hour activity. There is also a synergy factor like learning how work together. So dungeouns would not be the best gold source but still vialble as a gold run.
As far as open World dungeouns well how much gold are getting from open world dungeouns if any isit a deficit? If you are trying to get gold to buy some item you at least have the option to get the gold from doing dungeouns or some it.
Any ways I did not mention any thing in my last post about the actual drop rates so lets get into that.
This is actually a repost but as it turns out (heard in some video) the number of times that you would havetod a raid or dungeound to get a mount for a one percent drop it is about 163 times cause numbers repeat. Of course there are unlucky protection systems but lets focus on the number 163. Now if that is a raid that gets locked out every week as is the norm that comes out to 163 weeks but lets say 3 years. However if you are in a raid wiht 15 other poeple or 39 other people then we are looking at way over a decade and possibly no mount.
So for content that has a weekly lock out really think one percent drop is really low and if you can solo it well looking at 3 years.
Now lets look it from the perpective of expansions. WoW comes out with expansions about every 2 years. Lets say Ashes of Creation has a similar time line. So in 4 years you will have the Original game plus two expansions. But let say there are 103 mounts in the orginal game. And lets say 3 of them for whatever reasons the Devs Decided this mounts going to be super rare. Like less than one percent drop rate. Fine. As far as the the other hundred mounts. Those mounts should be attainaible in a period of four years. Reason being there should be plenty of new mounts for players to farm in the two new expansions. Plus this is true If you are the type of player that plays every week if not even more time.
So one thing to consider is how long does it take for a player to get the non super rare mounts. Some mounts you can buy, other comes from quests, others have good drop rates others you have to farm mats for and other are like you have to have a certain currency and so on. So when you add it all up excluding the 3 or 4 or 5 or 6
super rare mounts, How long would it take for the a player to get those 100 mounts.
I was talking about mounts but could be any other set of items in game like armour sets weapons pets and so on.
So i just got talking about loot in content that has weekly lock outs. So how often a player has access to the content matters.
Now lets talk about a slightly different top. Lets say Ashes of Creation made the design decision to put really rare, mega rare items in the game. Well how should they present that.
Well one way to present a really rare item is an event. In WoW there is a yearly event called Love is in the Air and in that event you have a certain number of chances to get this very rare pink rocket mount. I In that game I have a red racket and blue rocket and some other rockets mounts but not the pink one. But it is a really rare mount because you only have a week to farm it and that is it till next year.
Now in Ashes of Creation you may have periods were let say a Winter Dragon spawns and part of the loot table is a very rare pet baby Winter Dragon. But that is not all there is also chance to drop crafting material to make lets say Winter Dragon weapons and armour sets. Im a ranger so lets say I need the crafting material to make a frost bow. Plus should get some gold and standard array of goodies.
So in this loot table you have a chance to win the lottery get the baby White Dragon pet plus a decent chance get crafting material for cosmetic items or real item. Lets a Frost bow was a standard arsenal of a ranger you just had to farm for it for a while.
How long I do not know 3 months. In the Case of a Frost Bow might take 1 or 2 or 3 months to gather the materials. But you will eventually you will have it. For mages you might have frost robes and so on. Might be tradeble. I would not like it if the only reason people come together to kill that dragon is for the super rare drop the hardly drops.
This particalur method is just a number of drops really rare (pet). Semi rare (crafting material) and normal array goodies. Plus it is a really rare pet becuase it only drops for a limited time. Cannot farm it over and over again. Now if you have like 100 people participating in the event then the pet is really rare cause you have to roll against 100 people. But the most important element about this event is one people have to know that the dragon is there and two people have to that it drops some pretty cool loot.
I was watching a video and Video and the Creative Director said somehting about Artifacts. Now in terms of Dungeouns and Dragons artifactsare truly powerful items (I am very familar with the book of artifacst and the tables and the abilities and so on.) Yes they are very powerful items, but one of the most important elements about the super unique or rare artifacts is........The Lore.
I still have a lot more to say but think I am going to get some league of legends in
Good day to you.
Well I have watched WoW videos about rarest mounts in the game. And a lot of them are obscure. A lot do not look epic or legendary. Kind of looks kind of random to me. A few of the mounts that are in this WoW I have actually heard and seen in game. But others are just so obscure and non impressive, that the in my mind it is like really that mount is that rare, looks non impressive just a recolor and it is that rare .Really, i just feel sorry for the guy that loves that mount and been farming it for years.
I you want to know what I am talking about just go watch a rarest mount WoW video. Looks kiind of random to me.
So what is the opposite of that. I was talking about WoW do lets talk about an extremely rare mount that kind of make sense. There is a dungeound in game that has a lot of Lore behind calls Strathholme. And the last boss is Lord Aurius Rivendare. Name of the mount is Death Chargers Riens. In WoW it is simply known as Rivendares mount. Just about every one that has played that game has done that dungeound so and know how it looks like cause yhou can actually wee the mount in the dungeoun. (Very important). So if i see some one with that mount especially a death knight It is like a pleasant surprise might actually say something positive postive like. : Cool mount glad it dropped for you. Plus it is kind if nice seeing them in game.
Thing is there other rare mounts in game that are king obscure. The only people that know it is a rare mount are the ones farming it. Plus a lot of the rare mounts do not even look worth farming.
So in one case people actually know that the mount exists. And have actually seen in game. So it has a Role Playing Value . People do call the mount Death Chargers Reins. They call Rivendare´s Mount. In other cases it just seems kind of trivial looks like they were just in there put for the sake of having rare mounts (certain recolor rare) or there is a hundred item loot table and one of those items is mount, hence it has a one percent drop rate.
Alright What does this have to do with Ashes of Creation. Looks like from what The Devs at Inreipid Studios want rare mounts for Role Playing Value. That is a game design decision if that is the way it is going to fine. Lets talk about. How to implement it in the game.
First the mounts that are going to rare sould be identified and there should be Lore about, but it not enough to have Lore about People actually have to know about. It should not be arbiratary. Well like What? Well lets go down that road.
One foreseable candidate for a very rare mount would be. Be a Pheonixian Mount. I mean it is Ashes of Creation and the pheonix is liketh mascot of the game it is in the logo. As it turns out there are magical Pheonix and non Magical pheonix (big avain birds that can be used as mounts. One of the example of this really beautiful mounts are Pandarion Pheonix that were made available in MOP as a reward for Gold Challenge mode Dungeoun completionists. Just google them they look realy good the Unreal Engine 5 versions would be extremeley good. Another example that is really good Anivia skins. Anivia is a champion on League of Legions Some of the skins actually hace the word Pheonix in them like Divinve Pheonix Skin but all pretty good. The Unreal Engine 5 Versions of thid Skins would ve spectacular.
So think Pheonix mounts that are non magical that live out the wild. Should be attainable. (For the purpooses of this post Attainalbe means about 1 year of farming or less. That players still have a chance to partake in the Lore of Ashes of Creation.
As far as the Magical Pheonixian Mounts like lets say the fire version (Fire Bird)
and lets there is also a Frost Version of the mount. Guess you could add other versions but do think it is necessary. Lets make this the ultra rare Mounts in the game: Frost Pheonix and Fire Pheonix. First of all people are pretty familar with Pheonixian Lore trough movies and other content so it would be like instant Lore, as apposed to having to creat it.
In the world of dungeouns and dragons this are legendary creatures. So one way to promote the lore is to have this legendary creatures appear in game (non-killable).
So there would be like sightings of the legendary creatures, players would actually.
see in game. Another way is to have a rarevery poerful. NPC that is a quest giver actually have one of theseMounts. Basically finding ways to show case the mount in game like mabe a statue of it e with plague that says something like legendary Mounts. Plus it should be referenced in game like in books and mentioned by NPC.
So if someone actually had one of these two very it would be a huge deal and of some lucky player actually had both well that would be pretty cool. I think if it was decided to put these two mounts of the game they would be some of the most sought after mounts in the game. What is the opposite of this. Having rare mounts that no even knows about. Some people have not realizing how rare they. No one is really farming except mount collectors.
As far how rare they chould actually be well you take a look as demographics how many people actually have these. I already talked about the years it make to farm this mount. Just as a reminder, if the drop rate is one percent and you are rolling against 100 other people number between 1 and 1000 then your chances 1 in 10,000 to get it.
Guess Ashes of Creation will have to make the cal on that on.
I think this would a good way to present rare Mounts int the game. I kind cheated using the Pheonix mount, cause it is basically insant Lore as opposed to having o creat it and dealing with the problem of actually distrubiting it in game. Some players. are intrested in Lore more interested in combat action part of the game.
Next thing I want to talk about is that it should be determined how many of this rare mount there going to be. Not just incidental. So if there is like 100 mount in game is which is a lot mounts and ten of them are determined to be ultra rare. Well ok that is ten stories lines and fables That have to be put in game like well the legendary Unicorns.
Finally Do not think Ultra Rare mounts should be tied to a single raid. In case of Fire Pheonix or Frost Pheonix looks like most logical place to put them is in a 40 man loot table. Thing not every one does 40 man raid. I suggesed making one forty man raid mor accessable. So if they were put on that loot table since only a small percentage of population would have them. Maybe that is the desired. These mounts can be just as rare by adjusting the drop rate. For example the loot (Magical Pheonixian mounts) Could be tied to World Bosses. So there coule be five different to ways to access a loot table that has these mounts out. Having only one table lets say 40 man raid loot table make the farm just repatative.
I want to talk about the rarest mounts in that are in the videos. How many of them are truely impactful as far as Role Playing Value. Watch those videos and come to your own conclusion. Another thing is in WoW rare mounts to drop and it is not unusual for player to have rare mounts not sure about the ultra rare mounts, but if were to actually log in how many people are actually riding on rare mounts. In my experience I played on the Alliance side and for the most part every on is on a griffin.
Sure some of have a WoW see which mounts players are actually using.
I made this post from the perspective of mounts, But Can be applied to rare gear. Looks like that is already happening with the mention of Aritfacts.
Actually still have more to say about the subject but that is it for now.
The next point I want to make what makes this mount so special. I think that these mounts should have a their own pariticle effects and a trails. For example for the Frost Pheonix lets one of this Mythic creature are flying around in the game (NPC) and you happen to be beneath it the it is snowing at your location. It snows every wwer it Goes. When the Frost Pheonix lands down on the grpimd it should make a frost circle around it. When a Fire bird lands does it leave black ember like foot prints. Of course Fire Pheonix should maybe have golden fire trail behind it sheding sparks and embers wherever it goes. Denoting that yes,, it is a Mythic Legendary mounting that is purposefully set apart from other mounts. That would add a Huge Roleplaying Value to the game. Plus some mounts have venders onthem other are two people mounts and son on. In WoW mounts have a their own animation like roaring and such like depending on the mount called mount special. Really think Mythic Ultra Rare Mounts shoulod have 2 or three of these.
The next point I am going to make How are this mounts going to drop. Let say we are out in open world just killed a world boss and the super ultra rare mounts. Sine we are out in the World. Something like would happend. You would hear a Shriek of in the distance of a Pheonix respawning. You would not know which one dropped until you actually saw. It would start flying toward the group do a fly bye. (NPC flying around a bit showfcasing it beauty. Then after a bit it lands, but when it lands it makes a bit of a shockwave and it waits there. By the way the areas that it is going to land should be high lighted by golden arua/ beam. So it lands it high lighted area waiting for its owner to mount it. And that is the way or similar way Ultra Rare Mounts should drop. Not just walking up to dead world boss and clicking on it.
In summary let say Ashes of Creation does put ultra rare mounts in the game. Think there are to a meeting of which mounts they are going to be and the number of them I picked the number ten out of 100 mount so ten perccent. Ounce these mounts are chosen they should have special effects that normal mount would not have even the way that they drop. Not just putting rare mounts in game for the sake of it. It just seems random in some MMOs.
And a very important part of this Ultra Rare Mounts is the Lore. While you can make the Lore. How are going you make sure that players know about it. I mean you could make a video but if only 3 percent of player population watch that video well the problem still exists. If player sees one of this Ultra Rare Mounts and then it is like every mount, well not too inspiring. When a player sees the mount it should cause Awe and inspirations. A mount that has a tendancy to do this are dragon undead mounts. There is something called an Undead War Beatle (not a mount but a siege weapon frome the D&D Darksun Campain. As soon as a player see one this things they start thinking about the the dark magics involved that it to make it. I mean if the only players that know how rare a mount is the ones farming it not much of an impactful Role Playing Value.
So if Ashes of Creation lets say decided to take this avenue approach or another system that is somewhat similar, then yes I would have to agree that it would have a signaficant Role playing Value and would enhance the MMO experience. But totally against rare mounts in game just to keep players online. Does not even work.
Now while I have been talking about mounts alot. There also going to artifacts in game. But think Ashes of Creation has this covered but have some thing about loot system and how they can be too linear. Talk about next post.
Crafting something that requires that drop just requires more of that to craft, or processors must concentrate the drop before its used in crafting.
Getting more frequent low value drops gives players tangible progress either in gold via sale, or toward crafting a relevant item. This provides both short and long term rewards for players. This would also mitigate "bad luck".
High value drops can be "ninja'ed" all at once. Fractional drops are less likely to be worth the social consequences.
Next thing I want to look it is Loot tables. As far as very rare artifacts well the primary purpose of those is Role Playing value not just a state stick and fell Intrepid are going to present them correctly.
But I want to talk about the Loot Table. Who here thinks that lets all the items a ranger or any other class should be equal to the number equipable items. Lets say you have ten slots, so you have one bow, one pair of boots, one,belt, and one helmet, and so on, until you fill all ten slots. Sound kind outrageous. that would be a ten item loot table.
Who would such of thing?.
Yep you guessed ... Word of Warcraft the King of MMOs
Let me explain it to you. Making post from point of view of Cata WoW .See ounce you get to max level 3 mounths in a short period of time after that 1-2 mounths then this were all max level toons end up at. Farming the 14 raid best in slot items and that is it, as far stat progression goes. All you have to do is add the time it takes to get to max level in Cata it was level 85, Add the time it takes you to get level 85 crafted bow. level 85 normal and herioc dungeoun bow and you were litterally one bow from the end of your statistical progressive value journey as far as the bows are concerned. Similar situation for rest of item slots. Does that enable the replay value dungeouns or raids or the game for that matter. Of course not but what can you say? We are talking about the KING of the MMO word for a very very very long time. Of course they are left wondering how to retain their player base.
Lets just talk about Bows There are actually diffeent themes Frost, Holy Power, Dark magic and so on. As I remember it(Cata raid bow) was a stat stick with good cosmetic value with slight golden aura, when dot time proc ability proced.
Really not setting itself apart from other bows. It is totally linear. Think it would be pretty easy to put deaths bows, frost bows and Holy Power Bows in game. (Themes plus appropiate minor abilities.
After a lets say rare(not talking about artifacts here) bow drops the quality of the weopon could enable it to be upgraded. Additional Perks, and Minor abilities.
As far as perks go you could choose to make indestructable means no more durability cost. Another Perk is cannot be disarmed. Any passive ability that is appropiate to the rangers. Basically you get to custimize your raid drop making it more powerful. With enough options basically make your own magical weopone or make minor artifact.
Should be done through rare crafting material. So how would that work? If the crafting material was tied to same raid that the player got the bow from then think it would just be too repetative. Matter of fact could be rare drop in difficult dingeouns and world bosses so player could have crafting material before the raid bow drop.
Then there would be the part of finding a legendary crafsman in this case a flecther to make it. Could be player with super rare uprade recipe. This is what happens at times in Paper and Pencil Role Playing Games. So this would be Role playing in a Roleplaying video game.
Let me go back to WoW Cata unless you just reached maxed level then entirety of the of the hunter population was farming the the same 14 best in slot items.
Now in Ashes of Creation there are no gear restrictions so that helps but it is still possible for example that all the rangers in Ashes of Creation are farming the same long bow and short bow and (insert other projectile weopon here)
At this point think a made by point. But one other thing to mention is boots.
There are boots of speed (WoW did have enginerring version but tied to profession)
boots of immovabilty. Cannot be knocked backed. (obviously should be on cooldown in an MMO. What about boots that made you immune to all CC for like 1.5
seconds. This would allow casters to finish casting critical spells like. So if you are casting a spell and notice that enemy player is on low health then use this ability so you do not get interupted. You could basically put abilties that are appropiate for talent trees on gear. So instead of have a huge talent tree maybe put it on gear that needs to farmed. What happens when an expansions comes out well that is another discussion.
In a nutshell there is literally not enough gear to farm at max level in standard MMOs
Talking about gear that enhances your combat. Not cosmetic items.
Next topic I want to talk about is my personal experience as far as farming mounts and pets as it turns out my favorite pet in WoW is an ancient blossom (little treant)
and The Grand Expedition Yak. One in the Cash Shop other in Game for Gold. I do not think the fact that I did have to farm them for years diminished how much I liked them. Not even a little bit. Felt grateful that my favorite mount and pet were purchaseable. If other people had them did not matter to me one bit. Felt sorry for guy that was going on six years farming their invincible mount think it was .03 percent drop rare. Think after new expansions come out drop rates for previous rare mounts should increase. Here is a Question for should we discouraged from buying cosmetics items from the cash shop cause it diminishes the value of the item. Or maybe we should buy cosmetics items and but wait 30 days before using the item in game to enhance the equiping experience of the item. Do not think so.
Reason I do not want to play that game is I could not bear the class changes any more. Not just talking about nerfs. It is a very good game just felt like class was constantly being messed with for no good reason.
With the event bosses. I think there should be a decent amount of potential drops and some of that should have a 100% chance, due to how rare these events are gonna be. Such as, crafting resources. I believe this should be 100%, but maybe the amount is varied. I'm not against gear being dropped. But, it still shouldn't be better than end game crafted gear. I personally would like to see a near 100% chance of this. But, maybe the type isn't guaranteed to match your class. which could open things up to selling or trade. Maybe the gear can also break down to have unique crafting recourses. I would also like the gear to have a unique style and look based off of the boss. If we can pass over gear abilities, maybe the gear may have special passives or abilities that can be passed on through crafting. Just adding to the further use for the dropped gear. Lastly, I'm aware that these special event bosses will have super rare drops for things like eggs and recipe's, and I think that's mostly fine. I would like to see the recipe's as a permanent thing once learned, but that's a separate issue.
However - it must,
and i really mean it, it " M.U.S.T. " - be above a few, really brainsick Droprates of a certain Company as well, who made a certain MMO that has until today allegedly or apparently the most Players who always return to the Game like a Junkie to his Dealer.
I am now unsubscribed at least for " another Month " again, before i may subscribe for another Round of World-of-Token-Wacraft, again.
Farmed " Tahonta " again, a Mob in Maldraxxus, of the Shadowlands Expansion.
He drops the [Armored Bonehoof Tauralus] Mount.
Dropchance : around 0,6 % Percent.
I farm this Mob with " Four Characters " since around November 20"22" every Month i subscribed - which makes now over Seven Months or so - times 30,
meaning i killed this Mob a good " 210 Times " already, in the Time-Span of over a Year.
There are a few, mentally ill " Drops " like this, in the Game.
He ist he Equivalent of the One Mob of Mc'Caree/Eredath in Legion on Argus -> who drops a Toy, that creates a "magical Barrier" of Energy before the Character casting it.
It's only,
i could farm THAT MOB for over half a Year with Ten Characters until it finally dropped. I bet Dropchance is about the same, maybe higher.
So.
Long Story short.
For how god-damn long am i supposed, to "subscribe" to WoW monthly -> if i want to farm THIS SINGLE MOUNT alone ??
Same as for the [Mawsworn Soulhunter] Mount, which drops from the "Gorged Shadehound" Mob in the Maw, who - well - spawns like once in a Week or so for every Character who can kill him, for a few Days until he is away again.
I am not asking this, to complain, and bitch - and whine.
I am honestly asking this, because i am honest, serious - and curious.
So.
For HOW - MANY - YEARS - am i supposed to subscribe - aside from if i would level like +30 or +40 Characters up to the current Maxlevel or just 10 Levels beneath,
to farm some things ??
This is Life-Time i would never get back. And with HOW. MANY. Characters everyday, would i need to farm these few, mentally sick Dropchances with - if i really want to have them ?
Same with a few " Weapon-Illusion Effects ". Emerald Nightmare from Dungeon Boss Scheme of Xavius, only Heroic, also doesn't drop since a full Year ... ...
I say it as calmly and neutral as possible.
As much as i loved World of Token-Warcraft once for many, many Years,
this - " THIS " -> is also one of the Reasons, why i am gone, the Moment that Ashes of Creation hits the Stage.
I can only explain this with the Guess, that Blizzard hates "Casual Players".
If you are not a "Whale", who buys +100 Character Boosts who cost like +59 Dollar/€uro a Boost (lol),
if you are not a "NO-LIFER" who plays this Game as if it is the only Reason he is even here on Earth inside his Life,
if you are a normal Players - Gods above and below -> i don't understand why Blizzard feels so much like putting their Fist into your Face, if you are a Casual Player/Gamer.