the question asked was "Is the ttk seen during pvp in stream kind of, like, where we're wanting it? Or if it's not what changes will we be making" (59:50 on the Youtube VOD). The question was about pvp in general, and while Margaret reminded that balance was not yet the focus of development, which we know, Steven then responded with an explanation of health bars and player info, then said "We're around where we want to be for ttk" (1:02:17 Youtube VOD) Then FURTHER goes into it, saying that the ttk will be on the faster side of MMO's we're used to.
the question asked was "Is the ttk seen during pvp in stream kind of, like, where we're wanting it? Or if it's not what changes will we be making" (59:50 on the Youtube VOD). The question was about pvp in general, and while Margaret reminded that balance was not yet the focus of development, which we know, Steven then responded with an explanation of health bars and player info, then said "We're around where we want to be for ttk" (1:02:17 Youtube VOD) Then FURTHER goes into it, saying that the ttk will be on the faster side of MMO's we're used to.
My statement still stands. You can't reasonably judge any of it. 50% of the combat is missing.
And this is staged content, it's not organic or balanced. How do you judge something that's inherently false.
I'd argue that they shouldn't have asked for that feedback. It's contradictory.
WIP / "we purposefully didn't give teams clerics" / we haven't done balances passes etc.
the question asked was "Is the ttk seen during pvp in stream kind of, like, where we're wanting it? Or if it's not what changes will we be making" (59:50 on the Youtube VOD). The question was about pvp in general, and while Margaret reminded that balance was not yet the focus of development, which we know, Steven then responded with an explanation of health bars and player info, then said "We're around where we want to be for ttk" (1:02:17 Youtube VOD) Then FURTHER goes into it, saying that the ttk will be on the faster side of MMO's we're used to.
My statement still stands. You can't reasonably judge any of it. 50% of the combat is missing.
And this is staged content, it's not organic or balanced. How do you judge something that's inherently false.
All I can say to this is, that it's a design space.
If you show me a splice of your design space, and I ask 'Is this thing you have shown me, will you be changing it?' and you respond 'things are about where we want', I can think about your design space.
I agree that your point stands, if you believe that people cannot possibly extrapolate designs from viewing showcases. I yield.
That Caravan PvP Showcase is not indicative of balanced PvP combat.
Yes, it is not indicative of that. But Steven was asked about the ttk in the context of this exact showcase. He could've said "nah, we want it to be longer, so we'll design buffs/heals/def stats accordingly". But instead he said "yeah, what you saw is roughly what we're aiming for".
The questioner context and the way Steven looked at in in context are two different things. Asking a question does not mean you are getting a answer based on the context you want.
IF the person asked if ttk was meant to be in -insert seconds- of exact time that is different. Its really easy to get clear answers based on questions, but if u ask questions based on context that does not match the answer you aren't going to get an exactly correct response.
One day people will be level headed and ask more exact questions rather than just assuming everyone is on the same context.
Is time to kill mean ttk be 30 seconds, is it meant to be 15 seconds, player looked like to me they died in 4-5 abilities is that correct and you clarify what happened, is healing accounted for in ttk, is dodging accounted for in ttk.
The goal was supposedly for Ashes of Creation to be strategic and tactical.
Snipe does 340+ damage.
This game has an evasion stat. You play BDO. You know how this goes.
If this were a game with tighter control, with classes/Archetypes that could only equip specific weapons or gear, this design type would be fine. It is not. What was shown to us is slightly below BDO tier, because things like Snipe are tab targeted.
Technically, what this showcase told us is that Intrepid don't actually have any control over TTK in the first place.
Chill you can pvp me in Q3
I truly hate this type of response.
I truly hate the type of person who gives this sort of response.
If you want me to honestly, truly and viscerally hate you, mission accomplished. If you don't care because I'm just some rando on the internet that happens to care about the same game as you, also cool. If you do not, consider not giving this type of response in the future.
A joke that at least halfway makes your point, at least, next time.
Can't even begin to understand this, if that makes you hate someone so strongly that is up to you.
Ok, we understand that the Showcase was not indicative of pure 1 to 1 fairness. But that is made completely irrelevant when the question asked was "Is the ttk seen during pvp in stream kind of, like, where we're wanting it? Or if it's not what changes will we be making" (59:50 on the Youtube VOD). The question was about pvp in general, and while Margaret reminded that balance was not yet the focus of development, which we know, Steven then responded with an explanation of health bars and player info, then said "We're around where we want to be for ttk" (1:02:17 Youtube VOD)
Again.
That response by Steven is not after he’s done the same kind of analysis of the TTK of the opposing team in the manner that NiKr and Linniker have done.
All that reply says is that the TTK they commonly see in their playtests is around where they want them.
We know that this demo was not intended to be fair combat, so we can’t rely on this demo to determine what the typical TTK will be.
Because this demo is not indicative of typical PvP combat.
This fight was Combat devs v PI players with the Combat devs rigged to win (relatively quickly) in any case.
Then FURTHER goes into it, saying that the ttk will be on the faster side of MMO's we're used to. But whose we? from all the context shown and in the frame of the question, it appears to be in reference to modern day, popular MMO's people are used to. Which would make it WWAAAAYYY faster than the previous intent of the Studio.
Exactly. We have no frame of reference.
Does Steven think that 30s - 60s is the faster side of MMORPGs?
When Steven announced the change in design of the Open Seas, he clearly stated, “And this is a change to what we’ve said before…”
Indeed, when there is a significant change to the design - Steven typically volunteers that even before a questions is asked about it.
Nothing in this Showcase was intended to be indicative of a change in the design goals for the TTK.
And that was not really even on Steven’s mind.
Steven did not replay the actual TTK of the Ranger obliterating that Cleric.
He just answered the question he was asked based on his general feeling.
It’s currently around where they want it.
Which could still be 30s - 60s in a fair battle, for all we know.
So either, yes the goal has changed, and Steven didn't want to make that announcement fully yet, or Steven was being Steven, and has 16k things to do and on his mind, and misspoke in a very confusing manner given the context literally playing behind his head on stream. Either way, it's completely understandable for people to raise a few eyebrows at the very least, and need some clarification, because as it stands, true or not, the context and phrasing of the question and answer point pretty heavily one way.
The design goals for the TTK might have changed. There’s just no way for us to determine that based on what we saw in this video because this was rigged for the devs to win in several different ways.
It’s not even so much that Steven was thinking of 16k things…
What he was eager to show us in the demo is not quite the same thing that NiKr and Linniker wanted to evaluate.
Steven was thinking, “Awesome! We had a ton of fun with the Phoenix Initiative demoing how Bandits might loot a Caravan and traverse water and sell the goods at a Black Market at one of the Nodes. I hope our Community enjoy the changes in the Caravan system from the last time we demoed Caravans.”
He even voluntarily mentioned those changes during the demo, IIRC.
Steven did not examine the PI deaths in that demo to check to see if their TTK actually is on par with their design goals.
Of course, the people who were appalled at how quickly the Ranger dispatched the Cleric are re-watching that scene still aghast as it plays in the background, but Steven is not paying attention to that scene. I’m not even sure Steven could see it on his screen. Even if he could see it, he was probably paying more attention to chat than that video.
There was just a very clear disconnected between what Steven was focused on and what gamers like NiKr and Linniker were focused on.
And, I’m not saying the design goals for the TTK haven’t changed. I’m just saying there are too many unknown variables to determine that from this obviously rigged demo.
Ok, we understand that the Showcase was not indicative of pure 1 to 1 fairness. But that is made completely irrelevant when the question asked was "Is the ttk seen during pvp in stream kind of, like, where we're wanting it? Or if it's not what changes will we be making" (59:50 on the Youtube VOD). The question was about pvp in general, and while Margaret reminded that balance was not yet the focus of development, which we know, Steven then responded with an explanation of health bars and player info, then said "We're around where we want to be for ttk" (1:02:17 Youtube VOD)
Again.
That response by Steven is not after he’s done the same kind of analysis of the TTK of the opposing team in the manner that NiKr and Linniker have done.
All that reply says is that the TTK they commonly see in their playtests is around where they want them.
We know that this demo was not intended to be fair combat, so we can’t rely on this demo to determine what the typical TTK will be.
Because this demo is not indicative of typical PvP combat.
This fight was Combat devs v PI players with the Combat devs rigged to win (relatively quickly) in any case.
Then FURTHER goes into it, saying that the ttk will be on the faster side of MMO's we're used to. But whose we? from all the context shown and in the frame of the question, it appears to be in reference to modern day, popular MMO's people are used to. Which would make it WWAAAAYYY faster than the previous intent of the Studio.
Exactly. We have no frame of reference.
Does Steven think that 30s - 60s is the faster side of MMORPGs?
When Steven announced the change in design of the Open Seas, he clearly stated, “And this is a change to what we’ve said before…”
Indeed, when there is a significant change to the design - Steven typically volunteers that even before a questions is asked about it.
Nothing in this Showcase was intended to be indicative of a change in the design goals for the TTK.
And that was not really even on Steven’s mind.
Steven did not replay the actual TTK of the Ranger obliterating that Cleric.
He just answered the question he was asked based on his general feeling.
It’s currently around where they want it.
Which could still be 30s - 60s in a fair battle, for all we know.
So either, yes the goal has changed, and Steven didn't want to make that announcement fully yet, or Steven was being Steven, and has 16k things to do and on his mind, and misspoke in a very confusing manner given the context literally playing behind his head on stream. Either way, it's completely understandable for people to raise a few eyebrows at the very least, and need some clarification, because as it stands, true or not, the context and phrasing of the question and answer point pretty heavily one way.
The design goals for the TTK might have changed. There’s just no way for us to determine that based on what we saw in this video because this was rigged for the devs to win in several different ways.
It’s not even so much that Steven was thinking of 16k things…
What he was eager to show us in the demo is not quite the same thing that NiKr and Linniker wanted to evaluate.
Steven was thinking, “Awesome! We had a ton of fun with the Phoenix Initiative demoing how Bandits might loot a Caravan and traverse water and sell the goods at a Black Market at one of the Nodes. I hope our Community enjoy the changes in the Caravan system from the last time we demoed Caravans.”
He even voluntarily mentioned those changes during the demo, IIRC.
Steven did not examine the PI deaths in that demo to check to see if their TTK actually is on par with their design goals.
Of course, the people who were appalled at how quickly the Ranger dispatched the Cleric are re-watching that scene still aghast as it plays in the background, but Steven is not paying attention to that scene. I’m not even sure Steven could see it on his screen. Even if he could see it, he was probably paying more attention to chat than that video.
There was just a very clear disconnected between what Steven was focused on and what gamers like NiKr and Linniker were focused on.
And, I’m not saying the design goals for the TTK haven’t changed. I’m just saying there are too many unknown variables to determine that from this obviously rigged demo.
I don't always agree with you Dygz, but you're hitting on the right points here.
And, I’m not saying the design goals for the TTK haven’t changed. I’m just saying there are too many unknown variables to determine that from this obviously rigged demo.
Then we, as we usually do at this point, come back to the good old "Steven should've presented this in a better way, or have not presented the situation at all".
The stream was teased with "ohh, ya bout to see some pvp after such a long while". Then we see pvp. Then they discuss viewer's reaction to pvp. Then Steven's asked "ey, is this pvp smth we should expect on release?" Then Steven says "yeah, I think this kind of stuff might be close to what we want, so give us feedback on what you think about that".
What he should've said was "no, nowhere near close, because nothing is done, so don't give us feedback on this particular part of the stream".
This is simply yet another case of muddying the message/vision of the game. At first one thing is said, then another thing is shown, but even when asked if that shown thing relates to the thing that was said, the answer is "well, yes and no, that thing changed, or maybe it didn't because players overanalyze things that we haven't analyzed yet, so we don't really know".
I know that it's super silly to get frustrated about a game in alpha being a game in alpha and I know that Steven knows that this frustration doesn't mean anything as long as the release is good, but it still doesn't remove the frustration that pops up in these situations.
look at this cleric dying in a 1v1 in literal 4~5 seconds vs a ranger with equal gear/level/stats
Thats a level 7 cleric(healer) being focussed by a lvl 15 ranger(DD) i think the TTK for this is rly fine. But i do agree some abilitys hit a litle too hard.
Ok, we understand that the Showcase was not indicative of pure 1 to 1 fairness. But that is made completely irrelevant when the question asked was "Is the ttk seen during pvp in stream kind of, like, where we're wanting it? Or if it's not what changes will we be making" (59:50 on the Youtube VOD). The question was about pvp in general, and while Margaret reminded that balance was not yet the focus of development, which we know, Steven then responded with an explanation of health bars and player info, then said "We're around where we want to be for ttk" (1:02:17 Youtube VOD)
Again.
That response by Steven is not after he’s done the same kind of analysis of the TTK of the opposing team in the manner that NiKr and Linniker have done.
All that reply says is that the TTK they commonly see in their playtests is around where they want them.
We know that this demo was not intended to be fair combat, so we can’t rely on this demo to determine what the typical TTK will be.
Because this demo is not indicative of typical PvP combat.
This fight was Combat devs v PI players with the Combat devs rigged to win (relatively quickly) in any case.
Hmm. Yes, and no. The combat was rigged for the purpose of the demonstration, but, at the same time, open world PvP in RARELY done in a fair context, the attackers usually choose when the conditions favor them. So the demonstration was still rigged in what I expect will be the typical way. There are reasons so many people hate open world PvP after all.
Thats a level 7 cleric(healer) being focussed by a lvl 15 ranger(DD) i think the TTK for this is rly fine. But i do agree some abilitys hit a litle too hard.
I really don't get it, why would you bother making an argument without even looking at the video? jesus... that's why these forum discussions are so exhausting and I just disengage
That's Steven's level, they were ALL level 7 and using same equal gear, both Ranger and Tank using the River Stalker Armor set, and Cleric using a Ambitious Academic set,
and even if he was level 15, which he is obviously not, this is his HP bar, fighting 1v1 vs a CLERIC and he gets destroyed within the same 5 SECONDS, the only reason why he didn't die in 5 seconds to a CLERIC is because he killed him in 4 SECONDS ...
and again, in most MMOs, low level TTK is always HIGHER than end-game TTK, go have a 1v1 duel at level 10 in AA and you will see, takes forever, at endgame people can oneshot eachother.
Also, the "gear" that seems to look the same are probably cosmetics; not actually gear. So, again, we have no clue how their actual gear measured against each other. Devs v PI players.
and no they were not cosmetics its actual gear, literally listed on the Wiki, I'm not going to bother to get links I'm done with this thread, you know, it's frustrating to actually think about the things I say, put in the effort to give accurate feedback, do my research, and people just say whatever its on their minds make up arguments to "win" an exchange and push these discussions forever,
Thats a level 7 cleric(healer) being focussed by a lvl 15 ranger(DD) i think the TTK for this is rly fine. But i do agree some abilitys hit a litle too hard.
I really don't get it, why would you bother making an argument without even looking at the video? jesus... that's why these forum discussions are so exhausting and I just disengage
That's Steven's level, they were ALL level 7 and using same equal gear, both Ranger and Tank using the River Stalker Armor set, and Cleric using a Ambitious Academic set,
and even if he was level 15, which he is obviously not, this is his HP bar, fighting 1v1 vs a CLERIC and he gets destroyed within the same 5 SECONDS, the only reason why he didn't die in 5 seconds to a CLERIC is because he killed him in 4 SECONDS ...
and again, in most MMOs, low level TTK is always HIGHER than end-game TTK, go have a 1v1 duel at level 10 in AA and you will see, takes forever, at endgame people can oneshot eachother.
Also, the "gear" that seems to look the same are probably cosmetics; not actually gear. So, again, we have no clue how their actual gear measured against each other. Devs v PI players.
and no they were not cosmetics its actual gear, literally listed on the Wiki, I'm not going to bother to get links I'm done with this thread, you know, it's frustrating to actually think about the things I say, put in the effort to give accurate feedback, do my research, and people just say whatever its on their minds make up arguments to "win" an exchange and push these discussions forever,
The problem is people are focusing on the small details that will nearly all be changed.
All this discussion and break down is premature, real feedback will be during A2 when actual organic gameplay occurs.
I am pretty sure that I did not say do not provide feedback.
What I said is that you have insufficient evidence to support your claim about the general/typical TTK being too short.
....
And I'm gonna leave you to continue QQing if you wish.
Have fun.
what the fuck are we supposed to say then? the developers asked for feedback on TTK based on THAT specific showcase if we can't comment on it being too short or too long theres literally nothing to say about it,
thats a weird comment coming from you
Classic Liniker, relax mate he is only sharing his opinion
Classic Liniker, relax mate he is only sharing his opinion
In the last 3 months you made like 5 comments in this forums, 3 of those were you jumping in the mid of a random conversation to @ me with no purpose other than trying to pick a fight or seeking my attention, I'm sorry that you have a hate-boner on me but from now on I'll just ignore you 🙂
I think it is ok and will be tested much further in A2. I'm for 15-20 second or so 1v1 w/equal gear/lvl/class. 3v1 you would have 5 or so seconds depending on class. If I'm a rogue and I surprise a wizard or cleric class, they should die in about 10 seconds. And a tank fight would likely take 30+ seconds. So much depends on which class vs class, not every class vs class will be 20 seconds TTK. I could see tank vs tank being 45s-1min. If there is one thing we know about MMORPGS, it is that classes shouldn't be balanced against every other class. That is why teamwork matters. As for the healer pvp video, it seemed they were doing straight dps to dps vs a ranger... While that may have worked in Aion... Obvious loss. I didn't notice any big hp heals. And a healer shouldn't get an archer down below 60% anyway... Also in the caravan video when they flashed to the caravan/losing side just before the pvp, I could see archers moving on the hill, the caravan team had to have seen them too but did not engage. It was staged or else I'd say they had bad communication and that first guy to get killed wouldn't/shouldn't have been underneath stealthed people.
Then we, as we usually do at this point, come back to the good old "Steven should've presented this in a better way, or have not presented the situation at all".
The stream was teased with "ohh, ya bout to see some pvp after such a long while". Then we see pvp. Then they discuss viewer's reaction to pvp. Then Steven's asked "ey, is this pvp smth we should expect on release?" Then Steven says "yeah, I think this kind of stuff might be close to what we want, so give us feedback on what you think about that".
What he should've said was "no, nowhere near close, because nothing is done, so don't give us feedback on this particular part of the stream".
This is simply yet another case of muddying the message/vision of the game. At first one thing is said, then another thing is shown, but even when asked if that shown thing relates to the thing that was said, the answer is "well, yes and no, that thing changed, or maybe it didn't because players overanalyze things that we haven't analyzed yet, so we don't really know".
Sounds like many want spongier combat for ashes "end-game".
If it is the same Drama as in World of WoW-Token Craft then - > and Players need to struggle half a Minute or above to kill a single, other Player who is permanently bunny/monkey-jumping away and throws a hissy fit because he knows he is going to get killed,
then PvP will be unnecessarily smaller than it has to be. There is a great Number of People who are not willing to suffer and sacrifice their Nerves for PvP. I myself am 50% one of them at least.
And don't get me wrong, Please. Fighting was stressful in WoW Vanilla as well. But at least it was over when it was over. Not Three, Four, Five Abilities "EXTRA" designed to draw it into the Length and delay the obvious Winner between a One-v-One,
not countless Abilities to stun, knock back, run away, etc. The "Rogue" was the only One who had something like this - and this was okay and enough already.
Comments
My statement still stands. You can't reasonably judge any of it. 50% of the combat is missing.
And this is staged content, it's not organic or balanced. How do you judge something that's inherently false.
I'd argue that they shouldn't have asked for that feedback. It's contradictory.
WIP / "we purposefully didn't give teams clerics" / we haven't done balances passes etc.
All I can say to this is, that it's a design space.
If you show me a splice of your design space, and I ask 'Is this thing you have shown me, will you be changing it?' and you respond 'things are about where we want', I can think about your design space.
I agree that your point stands, if you believe that people cannot possibly extrapolate designs from viewing showcases. I yield.
Can't even begin to understand this, if that makes you hate someone so strongly that is up to you.
That response by Steven is not after he’s done the same kind of analysis of the TTK of the opposing team in the manner that NiKr and Linniker have done.
All that reply says is that the TTK they commonly see in their playtests is around where they want them.
We know that this demo was not intended to be fair combat, so we can’t rely on this demo to determine what the typical TTK will be.
Because this demo is not indicative of typical PvP combat.
This fight was Combat devs v PI players with the Combat devs rigged to win (relatively quickly) in any case.
Exactly. We have no frame of reference.
Does Steven think that 30s - 60s is the faster side of MMORPGs?
When Steven announced the change in design of the Open Seas, he clearly stated, “And this is a change to what we’ve said before…”
Indeed, when there is a significant change to the design - Steven typically volunteers that even before a questions is asked about it.
Nothing in this Showcase was intended to be indicative of a change in the design goals for the TTK.
And that was not really even on Steven’s mind.
Steven did not replay the actual TTK of the Ranger obliterating that Cleric.
He just answered the question he was asked based on his general feeling.
It’s currently around where they want it.
Which could still be 30s - 60s in a fair battle, for all we know.
The design goals for the TTK might have changed. There’s just no way for us to determine that based on what we saw in this video because this was rigged for the devs to win in several different ways.
It’s not even so much that Steven was thinking of 16k things…
What he was eager to show us in the demo is not quite the same thing that NiKr and Linniker wanted to evaluate.
Steven was thinking, “Awesome! We had a ton of fun with the Phoenix Initiative demoing how Bandits might loot a Caravan and traverse water and sell the goods at a Black Market at one of the Nodes. I hope our Community enjoy the changes in the Caravan system from the last time we demoed Caravans.”
He even voluntarily mentioned those changes during the demo, IIRC.
Steven did not examine the PI deaths in that demo to check to see if their TTK actually is on par with their design goals.
Of course, the people who were appalled at how quickly the Ranger dispatched the Cleric are re-watching that scene still aghast as it plays in the background, but Steven is not paying attention to that scene. I’m not even sure Steven could see it on his screen. Even if he could see it, he was probably paying more attention to chat than that video.
There was just a very clear disconnected between what Steven was focused on and what gamers like NiKr and Linniker were focused on.
And, I’m not saying the design goals for the TTK haven’t changed. I’m just saying there are too many unknown variables to determine that from this obviously rigged demo.
I don't always agree with you Dygz, but you're hitting on the right points here.
The stream was teased with "ohh, ya bout to see some pvp after such a long while". Then we see pvp. Then they discuss viewer's reaction to pvp. Then Steven's asked "ey, is this pvp smth we should expect on release?" Then Steven says "yeah, I think this kind of stuff might be close to what we want, so give us feedback on what you think about that".
What he should've said was "no, nowhere near close, because nothing is done, so don't give us feedback on this particular part of the stream".
This is simply yet another case of muddying the message/vision of the game. At first one thing is said, then another thing is shown, but even when asked if that shown thing relates to the thing that was said, the answer is "well, yes and no, that thing changed, or maybe it didn't because players overanalyze things that we haven't analyzed yet, so we don't really know".
I know that it's super silly to get frustrated about a game in alpha being a game in alpha and I know that Steven knows that this frustration doesn't mean anything as long as the release is good, but it still doesn't remove the frustration that pops up in these situations.
Thats a level 7 cleric(healer) being focussed by a lvl 15 ranger(DD) i think the TTK for this is rly fine. But i do agree some abilitys hit a litle too hard.
Hmm. Yes, and no. The combat was rigged for the purpose of the demonstration, but, at the same time, open world PvP in RARELY done in a fair context, the attackers usually choose when the conditions favor them. So the demonstration was still rigged in what I expect will be the typical way. There are reasons so many people hate open world PvP after all.
That's Steven's level, they were ALL level 7 and using same equal gear, both Ranger and Tank using the River Stalker Armor set, and Cleric using a Ambitious Academic set,
and even if he was level 15, which he is obviously not, this is his HP bar, fighting 1v1 vs a CLERIC and he gets destroyed within the same 5 SECONDS, the only reason why he didn't die in 5 seconds to a CLERIC is because he killed him in 4 SECONDS ...
and again, in most MMOs, low level TTK is always HIGHER than end-game TTK, go have a 1v1 duel at level 10 in AA and you will see, takes forever, at endgame people can oneshot eachother.
and no they were not cosmetics its actual gear, literally listed on the Wiki, I'm not going to bother to get links I'm done with this thread, you know, it's frustrating to actually think about the things I say, put in the effort to give accurate feedback, do my research, and people just say whatever its on their minds make up arguments to "win" an exchange and push these discussions forever,
The problem is people are focusing on the small details that will nearly all be changed.
All this discussion and break down is premature, real feedback will be during A2 when actual organic gameplay occurs.
yea that's true
Classic Liniker, relax mate he is only sharing his opinion
In the last 3 months you made like 5 comments in this forums, 3 of those were you jumping in the mid of a random conversation to @ me with no purpose other than trying to pick a fight or seeking my attention, I'm sorry that you have a hate-boner on me but from now on I'll just ignore you 🙂
Agreed. They've said theyre not asking about balancing right now
If it is the same Drama as in World of WoW-Token Craft then - > and Players need to struggle half a Minute or above to kill a single, other Player who is permanently bunny/monkey-jumping away and throws a hissy fit because he knows he is going to get killed,
then PvP will be unnecessarily smaller than it has to be. There is a great Number of People who are not willing to suffer and sacrifice their Nerves for PvP. I myself am 50% one of them at least.
And don't get me wrong, Please. Fighting was stressful in WoW Vanilla as well. But at least it was over when it was over. Not Three, Four, Five Abilities "EXTRA" designed to draw it into the Length and delay the obvious Winner between a One-v-One,
not countless Abilities to stun, knock back, run away, etc. The "Rogue" was the only One who had something like this - and this was okay and enough already.