mcstackerson wrote: » If you reduced the power given by levels and allowed players to participate in content as combatants at lower levels then I'm fine with having a long leveling experience, I might even prefer it. I don't enjoy having to grind for months to be able to play the game and with the trend of adding leveling boosts to MMOs, it's clear that gating content (usually endgame content) behind leveling in MMOs has issues.
Dygz wrote: » Owning a Freehold starts at 50, sure. There's stuff Level 1 characters can do on a Freehold.
Mag7spy wrote: » Yup, the thing is there is a bias on the forums for people that have infinite more free time or will be taking time off work. And are saying slower for the sake of saying slower. We can already see there is going to be spikes from leveling (on paper) based on the bonuses skills get , skill tree, and augment system. I see a lot of vocal elements on the forms on weird elements that is leading to try hardcore pvp guilds controlling whole servers. Anyone not in those guilds are going to be pvped or forced to join / listen to them like peasants. no one wants leveling to be in one or two days obviously it should feel chunky. But it needs to make sense and not become so long that a casual player never reaches max level reducing their effect on the server and further giving hardcore guilds more power.
Saabynator wrote: » I would think there is high level places. How else would level 50 get to do stuff, if everywhere is the same? There needs to be high level areas and those areas would be near or in node territory, wouldnt it?
Flanker wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Yup, the thing is there is a bias on the forums for people that have infinite more free time or will be taking time off work. And are saying slower for the sake of saying slower. We can already see there is going to be spikes from leveling (on paper) based on the bonuses skills get , skill tree, and augment system. I see a lot of vocal elements on the forms on weird elements that is leading to try hardcore pvp guilds controlling whole servers. Anyone not in those guilds are going to be pvped or forced to join / listen to them like peasants. no one wants leveling to be in one or two days obviously it should feel chunky. But it needs to make sense and not become so long that a casual player never reaches max level reducing their effect on the server and further giving hardcore guilds more power. The things is, it doesn't matter how long it will take to reach level cap if you look at it from the perspective of Hardcore vs Casual players. If player A plays 2 hours/day while player B plays 6 hours/day, it doesn't matter whether it takes 200, 500 or 1000 hours, player B will always reach it 3 times faster; and it's not only about level. By the time casual player reaches the max level, hardcore player (even though he has the same level) will be equipped much better as he didn't spend 66% of his past hours grinding XP, he was getting a better gear and enchanting it. Hardcore players beat casuals under any circumstances.
Mag7spy wrote: » The things is, it doesn't matter how long it will take to reach level cap if you look at it from the perspective of Hardcore vs Casual players. If player A plays 2 hours/day while player B plays 6 hours/day, it doesn't matter whether it takes 200, 500 or 1000 hours, player B will always reach it 3 times faster; and it's not only about level. By the time casual player reaches the max level, hardcore player (even though he has the same level) will be equipped much better as he didn't spend 66% of his past hours grinding XP, he was getting a better gear and enchanting it. Hardcore players beat casuals under any circumstances.
Flanker wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » The things is, it doesn't matter how long it will take to reach level cap if you look at it from the perspective of Hardcore vs Casual players. If player A plays 2 hours/day while player B plays 6 hours/day, it doesn't matter whether it takes 200, 500 or 1000 hours, player B will always reach it 3 times faster; and it's not only about level. By the time casual player reaches the max level, hardcore player (even though he has the same level) will be equipped much better as he didn't spend 66% of his past hours grinding XP, he was getting a better gear and enchanting it. Hardcore players beat casuals under any circumstances. You are completely missing the point.... People saying im going to play 16 hours a day or not go go to work for a extended amount of time is not what the leveling experience should be based off of. Making a leveling experience so slow because you have a small amount of people wanting to no life is not heathy for the game. This is why you have the end game gameplay loop where people are the same level but working towards smaller gains. And still giving players something to do and not having a mount of gear / level difference between players even more so when there is pvp involved... Someone reaching it 3 times faster (because they choose to do nothing but play a game the entire time) shouldn't be where the bar is set artificially inflating a leveling experience. And honestly there should be no world where we are talking about spending 1000 hours to reach max level.
Mag7spy wrote: » 1-2 months if you are playing every single day is fine for hitting max level. That isn't where the game ends as I expect there to be a lot more progression for people. While being more evenly scaled in terms of pvp. The average player most likely won't reach max level for half a year.
Mag7spy wrote: » Why is new world being used as an example when the fastest way to level was giving mats to tower for towns of xp and not questing. Seriously confused on people using bad elements of new world as an example in mmorpgs.
Mag7spy wrote: » If peolpe are going to be talking about examples use ACTUAL mmorpgs Rift, swtor, city of heroes, everquest, etc. Stop using new world as examples for what is bad.
Flanker wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » 1-2 months if you are playing every single day is fine for hitting max level. That isn't where the game ends as I expect there to be a lot more progression for people. While being more evenly scaled in terms of pvp. The average player most likely won't reach max level for half a year. 1-2 months if you are playing every single day is fine - playing "every single day" may be different for different players. It can be 2 or 10 hours per day, so the time it takes to reach max level may vary.The average player most likely won't reach max level for half a year. - well, it may be true if "average player" plays for 1-1,5 hours per day or around that (if we take the statement that it takes around 45 days of playing 4-6 hours per day into account). Pretty sure that average MMO player plays more than that. Mag7spy wrote: » Why is new world being used as an example when the fastest way to level was giving mats to tower for towns of xp and not questing. Seriously confused on people using bad elements of new world as an example in mmorpgs. It doesn't matter what was the fastest way to level up there, it's totally irrelevant. I'm talking about the outcome and consequences of reaching the cap fast. I was amongst the first players who reached level 60 on my server and the first one on my server to reach the max level 200 across all trade skills (and I did that solo). And there wasn't much else to do there after you reached that. I participated in 95% of wars, did PvP mission runs etc., but... that's it. Fortunately, AoC has more has way more to offer in terms of content and various activities but why take good old XP grind out of equation? I feel like many people have an impression that you can "truly" start playing the game only after reaching level 50 and I doubt that it's the case. Mag7spy wrote: » If peolpe are going to be talking about examples use ACTUAL mmorpgs Rift, swtor, city of heroes, everquest, etc. Stop using new world as examples for what is bad. I'd use Lineage 2 as an example then, but I'm not sure you'd like it. On official or classic servers it took many months and sometimes years to reach the max level. And people still had fun playing it. Moreover, if we speak about private servers, there was always a direct correlation when it came to server rates and server life span. x1-x3 servers could live for years while server with x100-x1000 rates rarely lived longer than 1-2 months.
Flanker wrote: » Are you trying to indicate a average mmo players playing more than 6 hours every single day? - no, otherwise I would say so. There is a difference between 1-1,5 hours per day and 6 hours per day. There are some numbers in between those two.From my understanding with linage 2 is it is different than western style mmorpgs and more akin to grinding kr games. So effectively you are wanting to extra levels for the sake of just grinding that give you little to no gains? - Yes, it is a Korean MMORPG. My point is that achieving something that is difficult to achieve feels much better. Beating a boss in Dark Souls feels better than killing a boss in some casual game because it's not an easy task. That's what I mean. I hear what you say and I don't disagree with you. I just think we are not really talking about the same thing. Peace
Mag7spy wrote: » That isn't difficult though that is just grinding a lot. If you only gained xp at a certain point while pvping and loss xp on death because of that or pve encounter (in a constantly fashion), than we can start talking about difficulty. Levels will matter more in AoC, for the fact you don't get your full class till level 35 and how the leveling system works all together. So it would mean the power from levels would be an even bigger deal and causing issues within the pvp based component, ontop of the other gearing that will be involved. If you want to advocate for a hard cap being lvl 50 and able to get more levels after at an extremely slow grindy rate I don't see them doing that since i feel the expectation is in expansions they will increase level cap. At the end of the day I don't see this as meaningful leveling its just people that have infinite time want to level forever. There should be plenty of elements progress at max level that are smaller gains but you spend far more time doing.
Kilion wrote: » Usually the idea behind shortening the time span necessary to reach max level seems to be related to repetitive, non-engaging gameplay with no significance beyond teaching you the core mechanics of the game. Furthermore there even is the possibility of making some of the "low level tasks" much easier on a higher level than they are on a lower level. e.g. Flying around in WoW to farm your mining skill up to max level is substantially faster than running around with your mount, making detours to find hopefully one more deposit to get to the next threshold. From what I can tell Ashes will not have too many of these "high level benefits". Even higher level character require resources found in lower level zones, zones in general aren't fully isolated from one another where you just won't run into players of a certain level in a specific place and most importantly: things in Ashes take more time. Goods take more time to be gathered and transported, Nodes take time to grow, strong communities with social bonds and trust take time to form and it takes more time to learn about the far more complex systems of Ashes. So really there would be no benefit to rush players through the levels when everything else moves at a much slower pace. In my opinion there wouldn't be an issue to say it should take around 300 hours to reach max level (That would be 4 months of playing 3 hours 6 days a week) especially since even lower level characters contribute significantly to the growth and maintenance of their Nodes, meaning being slower than others is not bad either.
Mag7spy wrote: » My issue will always be people asking to unreasonable leveling times and expecting content around that which reduces content that could be at max level. (That means creating a lot of content players won't ever experience or if they do they will be overleveled) And then you get the people saying there is nothing to do at max level from a pve perspective the same ones that no lifed the game and wanted a longer leveling experience.
