your logic is that we shouldn't reward people for getting there early,b ut instead you want to reward people for getting there late. wait what? imagine getting rewarded for being late at work xD anyways, why should the people who got there late should be rewarded instead? logic goes both ways.
Because it's a risk vs reward game, as quoted by Steven himself, around 3 billion times by now.
I know how cameras work buddy, it takes 0 effort to set up an afk dual box as camera. What's the risk in doing that? What's the risk in getting to a boss first? Zero, nada.
there isn't a single reason why the group who got there late should be rewarded instead.
Of course there is. If that group who got there last is willing to take risks and PK for it, willing to lose gear, for a chance to get the loot, of course they should be rewarded. It's a lot better than rewarding people for sitting on their ass risking absolutely nothing, are you insane? LMAO what is this take?
you are quoting me out of context. my replies are directly connected to your suggestion of enabling pvp in the boss area to be clear I don't have a problem with this, but I don't think this suggestion will "fix" the problem you are presenting.
ill break it down.
you complain that people who get to the boss early have an advantage. so you are against having an advantage given by time of arrival.
your solution: enable pvp in the boss area.
your solution gives an advantage to those who arrive to the boss late. your solution gives an advantage based on time of arrival.
basically, you don't want one group to have an advantage based on time of arrival, but you are perfectly ok with another group having an advantage based on time of arrival. do you see the contradiction now?
if anybody should have an advantage based on time of arrival, it should be people who prepared and got there early, not people who got there late.
also, your suggestion wouldn't work vs a group c. you are only thinking 2 groups will fight for the boss. what if you arrive late, then kill group A, then 30 seconds later group C arrives and kill your group. they have the advantage thanks to your suggestion. they take the boss with little effort.
tell me why people shouldn't have the advantage because they prepared and got there early. your logic is basically saying that a group who waited 8 hours camping baium portal during the spawn window shouldn't enter first because its unfair that they did that and woke up the boss
yeah everybody will be purple in the solution he is proposing, but somehow group c wont attack his group and wait until he fights group a and heals up and then 1v1 them
Because in that situation we can engage Group C whenever we want, which is very different from having a group sitting on the sidelines, non flagged, just waiting for one us to go red and jump us. That's why I proposed a flagged zone. And if you want the arguement of another random party C waiting non flagged, then at least I'm well aware that they're ready to contest the boss, bounty Hunters can just stay the fuck away out of vision and range and then pop out of nowhere and gank your PK because they're actively tracking him (even if he runs away from the boss area). Most players won't want to run away from the boss, but BHs will gladly do that, as their entire purpose is to catch PKs.
If you think these 2 situations are anywhere near the same, then you're not using your brain.
And if you think this is an "unrealistic situation", then you haven't thought it through very well. Why wouldn't Bounty Hunters gather around the most important group content to be contested where it's most likely that players will go Corrupted? THIS is unrealistic? LMAO. Yeah bro, you became a BH for a chance to catch PKs and get a loot piñata but somehow waiting around near World Bosses where there are more likely to be more than one loot piñatas is totally "unrealistic". Totally guys. Totally
I never said it was unrealistic...but that's why you prepare. you know you also can kill your friend who Is red and res him. then what are the bh gonna do? if they are hiding as you say, that means they wont be close to enough to loot your friend... kill, res, done. no more red. fight the boss...
Your incredibly amazing strat that apparently you think it's infalible doesn't work vs any clan who isn't completely new because every fucking clan that fights for good shit has lower levels who aren't in the boss party waiting to kill these hobos in 2 hits.
Ey nice, some progress. So now there's additional groups of people together with the initial group of farmers. So what's stopping you from having such a group yourself, if you're so prepared? And what's stopping this group from PKing the healer?
Also, there's always more people willing to kill the lowbie pk char than lowbie pk chars available for that situation.
I mean, unless the bosses in Ashes are so fucking dumb-easy that even a toddler can kill them, "for that situation" you only need to kill one healer for the raid to fall apart.
Also, a C grade hawk hits an A grade SS for ~1.8k per crit. Let's say a good bish would have more def and more hp, so hawk would be hitting 700-800 per crit with bish having 10k hp - that's still insanely cheap dmg that's coming out at super fast speeds and is draining the bish of his mana (also redirects his healing from the party onto himself more). This directly leads to the boss becoming way more difficult.
nah just keep spamming stun shot T_T that shit lands even on fucking majestic lmao (other stuns don't ;-;)
I’m with @NiKr in trying to figure out your concern. I get your setup, but you seem concerned about BHs being able to skew the outcome of an open world boss fight, because they can hunt reds on the map. Given your scenario though by the time those reds show up on the map they will already be dead and the fight skewed by the players already engaged in the fight…
Now, BHs can make it worse for those reds afterward, but they aren’t the one’s skewing the boss fight. All of that’s finished before the cops show up.
How is it even relevant to bounty hunters lmao? Bring any 10 players and let them be near the boss and that will make much more sense: a) Corrupted players may kill bounty hunters without acquiring additional corruption score - so if you have an ordinary player, that's even better b) Corrupted player's combat penalties do not apply when battling bounty hunters. - no skill and stat dampening against bounty hunters.
Generally speaking, you are talking about a problem that doesn't exist and that won't exist.
You can literally make the same arguement for any zone in the game when contesting something. Literally.
Yes, everything can be zerged, but pvp zones encourage that even more, because in a place where anyone can kill you - the strength is in numbers.
In a normal situation, one PKer would be enough to destabilize the raid, so you don't need a zerg there. But if it was a pvp location, this single char would immediately be killed by the first raid, because that's the optimal thing to do when you see anyone approaching your mob in a pvp zone.
Again, I'm talking from direct experience because I've played on a ton of pvp L2 servers with such zones. Shooting first was always the correct answer and bringing zerg to a boss was the optimal way.
More wrong assumptions. I care about BHs being able to track a whole party with a lot of karma after they just had to go red for a boss, which is why I said that BHs will directly affect the contesting of bosses. I don't care about being chased when I'm by myself in a random situation, BHs don't even give you extra corruption since they're flagged for PKs, lmao.
Again, this seems like a skill issue, if you can't destabilize the raid with only a few PK alts.
And as everyone has said at this point, your point against BHs is highly illogical. At least for the situation you're trying to use.
It will exist. You're vastly underestimating the amount of people who will become a BH. Do you understand how strong being able to see Corrupted players in the map is? I don't think you thought this out very well. At the start, there won't be many, but once it's figured out, a ton of players will be one. Then you'll see what the problem is.
And you're wildly overestimating how many corrupted players there'll be in the game. You say it yourself, people don't just "go red lol" when there's a lot to lose, right? And Ashes already has waaay harsher penalties and overall design against the Red players, which means that even fewer people would be willing to PK.
And if there's demand for BHs - there's gonna be no supply. In all your presented situations the PKed group are apparently just standing around and doing nothing, while you're gaining corruption on, supposedly, several of your party members. I don't think I've ever seen a group of people who didn't at least immediately assist-kill a PKer who had just murdered their mate.
I guess on your precious official servers everyone's so much of a pussy that they don't even kill Reds when they see them. Sucks to suck.
Also normal parties will be there for the Boss, while many many BHs will be there only for Corrupted players and will completely ignore everything else but corrupted players.
Why would any PvE group worth it's salt use corrupted players with degraded stats in a dps race? Meaning, those players don't start corrupted, meaning a BH won't see them until AFTER they have been corrupted, they are dead, or the fight has finished. Also, even when a BH can see a Red player on the map it doesn't mean they can travel to said Red player quickly.
So again you may have MAJOR concerns, but they are based on an exception case that is rarely going to practically occur. Unfortunately, it seems impossible to discuss without responses devolving into an erratic screed.
This WILL become a problem and I'll simply refer you to this topic when the time comes. I'm done replying here.
What an odd response to your own thread, but probably for the best.
I fear the BH system will discourage contesting world bosses, as I've stated multiple times. Is it really worth it PKing 20 people if your party with half their resources at best is going to be chased down by lots of BHs? It seems obvious to me that the idea of being BH is so valuable already (just for the tracking alone) that I can see a ton of players becoming one. That WILL bring this problem I'm mentioniong.
And please, stop with the argument that other parties can do that too, lmao. Normal parties can't track you infinitely. Also normal parties will be there for the Boss, while many many BHs will be there only for Corrupted players and will completely ignore everything else but corrupted players.
Players abuse anything that can benefit them ingame and right now unless something is changed the BH system is basically a free radar for free loot piñatas. If you don't think this will result in at least 20% of the playerbase to become a BH, then YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR MIND. And then when BH clans form which will 100% happen I want to see @NiKr tell me once again how "unrealistic" what I said is.
This WILL become a problem and I'll simply refer you to this topic when the time comes. I'm done replying here.
(And of course @NiKr talks big game about going red while PKing on PRIVATE L2 servers, LMAO. It's easy to go red when you're playing a dogshit server where everyone can get their shit quickly or even pay for it. What a classic "yeh dude just go red stop being a pussy" - while playing a private server. IMAGINE the audacity of typing "skill issue" while you play dogshit private L2 servers. Hilarious. Talk to me when you go red fully geared in official with 40k karma trying to lock down Antharas/Valaks Lair boss room for your clan at least 50 + times)
Generally speaking, you are talking about a problem that doesn't exist and that won't exist.
It will exist. You're vastly underestimating the amount of people who will become a BH. Do you understand how strong being able to see Corrupted players in the map is? I don't think you thought this out very well. At the start, there won't be many, but once it's figured out, a ton of players will be one. Then you'll see what the problem is.
you know most players in retail botted and rmt right? losing your gear Is whatever when you can swipe and buy it back...sure, people in private servers bought gear, but so did people in retail lol.
edit: sure bh will go to boss areas just to farm pk, for sure 100% but so will regular players. some players now they have no chance at getting the boss, so they will sit there waiting for pk and to do pvp. same happened din l2 with castle sieges, or example. small clans knew they had no chance but they still went there to attack whatever player walked nearby and had fun...
i get your concerns, and its perfectly valid to post about it in the forums to get devs attention, I just disagree with your solution of turning the area around the boss auto flag. that's not going to help, especially when you can drop stuff if you are purple. you also think that for some reason only small groups of 20 players will contest bosses, as if people wont bring numbers to pvp while some parties focus on the boss lol. better leave the solution for the devs xD
I had over 7k PKs in official, PKing only when contesting peak content
So the answer is yes, got it. They were pussies who couldn't even kill a PKer.
I had 0-3 pk in offi because I always did the sin eater quest lol. never ever dropped anything red XDDD
anyways going red in a big clan Is no biggie. you die near your party/clan, they pick up your shit and give it back to you. ez win gg
I had 0-3 pk in offi because I always did the sin eater quest lol. never ever dropped anything red XDDD
anyways going red in a big clan Is no biggie. you die near your party/clan, they pick up your shit and give it back to you. ez win gg
Don't tell the OP that, they'll call you a crazy person and say that this kind of thing is completely impossible to do. THEY HAVE 7K PKS, THEY KNOW!!
I had 0-3 pk in offi because I always did the sin eater quest lol. never ever dropped anything red XDDD
anyways going red in a big clan Is no biggie. you die near your party/clan, they pick up your shit and give it back to you. ez win gg
Don't tell the OP that, they'll call you a crazy person and say that this kind of thing is completely impossible to do. THEY HAVE 7K PKS, THEY KNOW!!
I'm waiting for all of the "Over 9,000!' memes to rush in...
So these theoretical BHs know the boss you're about to contest. Sit there waiting for you to contest it. Are prepared for you to become a PKer...
BUT CAN'T FUCKING KILL YOU ON THE SPOT?!
Sounds strange, right ?
People can take on Worldbosses stronger than every single Player could possibly hope to ever get. But they can not fight other Players who might attack them to take the Worldboss Kill away from them ?
What is stopping them ?
Do they have a Clamp around their Balls which suddenly shuts itself RRRREEEEAAAALLYYYY TIGHT (lol) the Moment they attack other Players and not NPC's ?? hahahahahahah.
It will exist. You're vastly underestimating the amount of people who will become a BH. Do you understand how strong being able to see Corrupted players in the map is? I don't think you thought this out very well. At the start, there won't be many, but once it's figured out, a ton of players will be one. Then you'll see what the problem is.
For the reasons I described above, it is pretty obvious that having an ordinary player to fight against corrupted is much more advantageous and that's a fact. If you lose the fight - they get more corruption; if you win the fight (and your chances to win it are higher because of skill and stat dampening of a corrupted player against normal player) - mission accomplished
The only difference is that ordinary player can't see the corrupted player on the map. For that purpose, you don't need 20 bounty hunters though; you just need one person sharing their screen on discord for everyone else to follow their target. Simple as that
Private L2 servers isn't the same as playing Lineage II official. You never played Lineage II, you played a cheap version for noobs that can't actually take REAL risks in an official server where going red means risking losing gear AKA -3 months of work. No wonder you just think "just go red bro don't be a pussy" XD hilariouuus
Official L2 servers? Those that turned initially a decent game into Semi-mobile P2W garbage with RMT here and there that spreads faster than ebola? No, thank you. I'd rather play on low rate private servers with normal patches
Comments
you are quoting me out of context. my replies are directly connected to your suggestion of enabling pvp in the boss area to be clear I don't have a problem with this, but I don't think this suggestion will "fix" the problem you are presenting.
ill break it down.
you complain that people who get to the boss early have an advantage. so you are against having an advantage given by time of arrival.
your solution: enable pvp in the boss area.
your solution gives an advantage to those who arrive to the boss late. your solution gives an advantage based on time of arrival.
basically, you don't want one group to have an advantage based on time of arrival, but you are perfectly ok with another group having an advantage based on time of arrival. do you see the contradiction now?
if anybody should have an advantage based on time of arrival, it should be people who prepared and got there early, not people who got there late.
also, your suggestion wouldn't work vs a group c. you are only thinking 2 groups will fight for the boss. what if you arrive late, then kill group A, then 30 seconds later group C arrives and kill your group. they have the advantage thanks to your suggestion. they take the boss with little effort.
tell me why people shouldn't have the advantage because they prepared and got there early. your logic is basically saying that a group who waited 8 hours camping baium portal during the spawn window shouldn't enter first because its unfair that they did that and woke up the boss
its ridiculous.
I never said it was unrealistic...but that's why you prepare. you know you also can kill your friend who Is red and res him. then what are the bh gonna do? if they are hiding as you say, that means they wont be close to enough to loot your friend... kill, res, done. no more red. fight the boss...
nah just keep spamming stun shot T_T that shit lands even on fucking majestic lmao (other stuns don't ;-;)
Now, BHs can make it worse for those reds afterward, but they aren’t the one’s skewing the boss fight. All of that’s finished before the cops show up.
What are you so concerned about?
a) Corrupted players may kill bounty hunters without acquiring additional corruption score - so if you have an ordinary player, that's even better
b) Corrupted player's combat penalties do not apply when battling bounty hunters. - no skill and stat dampening against bounty hunters.
Generally speaking, you are talking about a problem that doesn't exist and that won't exist.
Yes, everything can be zerged, but pvp zones encourage that even more, because in a place where anyone can kill you - the strength is in numbers.
In a normal situation, one PKer would be enough to destabilize the raid, so you don't need a zerg there. But if it was a pvp location, this single char would immediately be killed by the first raid, because that's the optimal thing to do when you see anyone approaching your mob in a pvp zone.
Again, I'm talking from direct experience because I've played on a ton of pvp L2 servers with such zones. Shooting first was always the correct answer and bringing zerg to a boss was the optimal way.
Again, this seems like a skill issue, if you can't destabilize the raid with only a few PK alts.
And as everyone has said at this point, your point against BHs is highly illogical. At least for the situation you're trying to use.
And if there's demand for BHs - there's gonna be no supply. In all your presented situations the PKed group are apparently just standing around and doing nothing, while you're gaining corruption on, supposedly, several of your party members. I don't think I've ever seen a group of people who didn't at least immediately assist-kill a PKer who had just murdered their mate.
I guess on your precious official servers everyone's so much of a pussy that they don't even kill Reds when they see them. Sucks to suck.
Why would any PvE group worth it's salt use corrupted players with degraded stats in a dps race? Meaning, those players don't start corrupted, meaning a BH won't see them until AFTER they have been corrupted, they are dead, or the fight has finished. Also, even when a BH can see a Red player on the map it doesn't mean they can travel to said Red player quickly.
So again you may have MAJOR concerns, but they are based on an exception case that is rarely going to practically occur. Unfortunately, it seems impossible to discuss without responses devolving into an erratic screed.
What an odd response to your own thread, but probably for the best.
you know most players in retail botted and rmt right? losing your gear Is whatever when you can swipe and buy it back...sure, people in private servers bought gear, but so did people in retail lol.
edit: sure bh will go to boss areas just to farm pk, for sure 100% but so will regular players. some players now they have no chance at getting the boss, so they will sit there waiting for pk and to do pvp. same happened din l2 with castle sieges, or example. small clans knew they had no chance but they still went there to attack whatever player walked nearby and had fun...
i get your concerns, and its perfectly valid to post about it in the forums to get devs attention, I just disagree with your solution of turning the area around the boss auto flag. that's not going to help, especially when you can drop stuff if you are purple. you also think that for some reason only small groups of 20 players will contest bosses, as if people wont bring numbers to pvp while some parties focus on the boss lol. better leave the solution for the devs xD
I had 0-3 pk in offi because I always did the sin eater quest lol. never ever dropped anything red XDDD
anyways going red in a big clan Is no biggie. you die near your party/clan, they pick up your shit and give it back to you. ez win gg
I'm waiting for all of the "Over 9,000!' memes to rush in...
Sounds strange, right ?
People can take on Worldbosses stronger than every single Player could possibly hope to ever get. But they can not fight other Players who might attack them to take the Worldboss Kill away from them ?
What is stopping them ?
Do they have a Clamp around their Balls which suddenly shuts itself RRRREEEEAAAALLYYYY TIGHT (lol) the Moment they attack other Players and not NPC's ??
For the reasons I described above, it is pretty obvious that having an ordinary player to fight against corrupted is much more advantageous and that's a fact. If you lose the fight - they get more corruption; if you win the fight (and your chances to win it are higher because of skill and stat dampening of a corrupted player against normal player) - mission accomplished
The only difference is that ordinary player can't see the corrupted player on the map. For that purpose, you don't need 20 bounty hunters though; you just need one person sharing their screen on discord for everyone else to follow their target. Simple as that
Official L2 servers? Those that turned initially a decent game into Semi-mobile P2W garbage with RMT here and there that spreads faster than ebola? No, thank you. I'd rather play on low rate private servers with normal patches