GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest.
Mag7spy wrote: » If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying
SunScript wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying Based on your own words here and based on having watched that clip, it sounds like what you actually enjoy is having a 1-player game disguised as pvp. I don't think anyone here has a problem with you getting a 12 second TTK in Ashes if the opponent fumbles everything, but it's also not relevant. That video also starts when one of the players is already injured. Is there some valid reason we aren't counting the time it took for that into the TTK? Doubly irrelevant. Also can I just say, if you were trying to be genuinely useful, wouldn't you be sharing a clip with a working game timer? We can check approximately how long the fight was using the clip's timer, but if we wanted any kind of precision when talking about how long defensive options add or subtract from the TTK, we'd want the match timer working. This is a weird mix of disingenuous and not useful.
Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol.
Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy.
Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying
Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE.
Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE. We can make a argument if you stand still and do not fight back(well), use abilities smartly or dodge. That indeed would be a skill issue. Now if you are doing all those elements there shouldn't be a reason you die quickly. We can go with the argument that for some reason someone is on CDS, and if they can't out play ona general level because of that it be a lower skill ceiling. The answer to that imo is defensive skills which is the whole point. Your ability to effective block attacks, dodge attacks, and parry now. All matter allowing you to reduce dmg you take and have their own skills on CD. On top of other defensive passives you might have (higher protect to first CC hitting you). It means someone who is good defensively can win in that kind of situation, and creates a skill ceiling around that element of gameplay. People who are not as good defensively will have a higher chance of losing engagements until they increase their own skill. Edit* I see you liked that post which was a passive aggressive insult to me. Make sure you watch my video and understand what is going on in it. As the post is just throwing misinformation as they didn't watch the full clip. 0 reason to like that post which is a blatant lie + passive aggressive vibes.
Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE. We can make a argument if you stand still and do not fight back(well), use abilities smartly or dodge. That indeed would be a skill issue. Now if you are doing all those elements there shouldn't be a reason you die quickly. We can go with the argument that for some reason someone is on CDS, and if they can't out play ona general level because of that it be a lower skill ceiling. The answer to that imo is defensive skills which is the whole point. Your ability to effective block attacks, dodge attacks, and parry now. All matter allowing you to reduce dmg you take and have their own skills on CD. On top of other defensive passives you might have (higher protect to first CC hitting you). It means someone who is good defensively can win in that kind of situation, and creates a skill ceiling around that element of gameplay. People who are not as good defensively will have a higher chance of losing engagements until they increase their own skill. Edit* I see you liked that post which was a passive aggressive insult to me. Make sure you watch my video and understand what is going on in it. As the post is just throwing misinformation as they didn't watch the full clip. 0 reason to like that post which is a blatant lie + passive aggressive vibes. I mean I don't think his post was insulting but I don't control how you see it. I do think attributing an argument against 10 seconds as a skill issue has more of a claim to what could be deemed insulting. With that said I'm not interested in getting in an insult war with you as I generally like your posts. It's just clear we disagree on this issue. Your video of 1v1 in a fighter game gives light on how you could see it as a skill issue, but I don't think that genre is a fair translation to AoC and the argument at hand.
Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE. We can make a argument if you stand still and do not fight back(well), use abilities smartly or dodge. That indeed would be a skill issue. Now if you are doing all those elements there shouldn't be a reason you die quickly. We can go with the argument that for some reason someone is on CDS, and if they can't out play ona general level because of that it be a lower skill ceiling. The answer to that imo is defensive skills which is the whole point. Your ability to effective block attacks, dodge attacks, and parry now. All matter allowing you to reduce dmg you take and have their own skills on CD. On top of other defensive passives you might have (higher protect to first CC hitting you). It means someone who is good defensively can win in that kind of situation, and creates a skill ceiling around that element of gameplay. People who are not as good defensively will have a higher chance of losing engagements until they increase their own skill. Edit* I see you liked that post which was a passive aggressive insult to me. Make sure you watch my video and understand what is going on in it. As the post is just throwing misinformation as they didn't watch the full clip. 0 reason to like that post which is a blatant lie + passive aggressive vibes. I mean I don't think his post was insulting but I don't control how you see it. I do think attributing an argument against 10 seconds as a skill issue has more of a claim to what could be deemed insulting. With that said I'm not interested in getting in an insult war with you as I generally like your posts. It's just clear we disagree on this issue. Your video of 1v1 in a fighter game gives light on how you could see it as a skill issue, but I don't think that genre is a fair translation to AoC and the argument at hand. Sounds pretty convenient to say you don't control how i see things, when i pointed out the issues with the post directly and you are doubling down. But ok Insult war, funny. 1. You are taking what i said as if it is in your own shoes directly and not for general players. 2. You are a type of player that doesn't dodge attacks, etc. 3. Your mind set is fully tab target and it doesn't make sense yo be able to dodge attacks. You are trying to use a convenient term "disagreement" when I've directly pointed out elements. As you can't refute them so its easier for you to ignore things, and i guess just like "disingenuous" post rather than actually have a discussion. What i see in soul calibur has nothing to do with the disccusion about things being a skill issue. And only related to you talking about it isn't fun to win in 15 seconds in a fighting game. Now why i see the potential skill ceiling with AoC is because of what has been talked about and shown in the GAME. Elements you clearly have missed or are ignoring. Elements that include 1. Being able to miss attacks 2. Being able to dodge attacks 3. Full universal skill tree for defensive passives / effects for players (this is new) 4. Active Dodge, block, parry 5. Abilities in kits to have movement (warrior jump, cleric skill, wizard teleport, etc) In what world are we going to keep ignoring the potential of these skills in the hands of a veteran player, and the skill ceiling that it can add to reduce / negate dmg and waste CDs of players.
Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE. We can make a argument if you stand still and do not fight back(well), use abilities smartly or dodge. That indeed would be a skill issue. Now if you are doing all those elements there shouldn't be a reason you die quickly. We can go with the argument that for some reason someone is on CDS, and if they can't out play ona general level because of that it be a lower skill ceiling. The answer to that imo is defensive skills which is the whole point. Your ability to effective block attacks, dodge attacks, and parry now. All matter allowing you to reduce dmg you take and have their own skills on CD. On top of other defensive passives you might have (higher protect to first CC hitting you). It means someone who is good defensively can win in that kind of situation, and creates a skill ceiling around that element of gameplay. People who are not as good defensively will have a higher chance of losing engagements until they increase their own skill. Edit* I see you liked that post which was a passive aggressive insult to me. Make sure you watch my video and understand what is going on in it. As the post is just throwing misinformation as they didn't watch the full clip. 0 reason to like that post which is a blatant lie + passive aggressive vibes. I mean I don't think his post was insulting but I don't control how you see it. I do think attributing an argument against 10 seconds as a skill issue has more of a claim to what could be deemed insulting. With that said I'm not interested in getting in an insult war with you as I generally like your posts. It's just clear we disagree on this issue. Your video of 1v1 in a fighter game gives light on how you could see it as a skill issue, but I don't think that genre is a fair translation to AoC and the argument at hand. Sounds pretty convenient to say you don't control how i see things, when i pointed out the issues with the post directly and you are doubling down. But ok Insult war, funny. 1. You are taking what i said as if it is in your own shoes directly and not for general players. 2. You are a type of player that doesn't dodge attacks, etc. 3. Your mind set is fully tab target and it doesn't make sense yo be able to dodge attacks. You are trying to use a convenient term "disagreement" when I've directly pointed out elements. As you can't refute them so its easier for you to ignore things, and i guess just like "disingenuous" post rather than actually have a discussion. What i see in soul calibur has nothing to do with the disccusion about things being a skill issue. And only related to you talking about it isn't fun to win in 15 seconds in a fighting game. Now why i see the potential skill ceiling with AoC is because of what has been talked about and shown in the GAME. Elements you clearly have missed or are ignoring. Elements that include 1. Being able to miss attacks 2. Being able to dodge attacks 3. Full universal skill tree for defensive passives / effects for players (this is new) 4. Active Dodge, block, parry 5. Abilities in kits to have movement (warrior jump, cleric skill, wizard teleport, etc) In what world are we going to keep ignoring the potential of these skills in the hands of a veteran player, and the skill ceiling that it can add to reduce / negate dmg and waste CDs of players. Steven said 10-15 second average when players are of the same level and gear score. He did not say 10-15 second average if no 'defensive elements' were used. I'm not ignoring your points because they're inconvenient, but because they are already implied within the 10-15 second TTK so it's a waste of time to debate it.
Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE. We can make a argument if you stand still and do not fight back(well), use abilities smartly or dodge. That indeed would be a skill issue. Now if you are doing all those elements there shouldn't be a reason you die quickly. We can go with the argument that for some reason someone is on CDS, and if they can't out play ona general level because of that it be a lower skill ceiling. The answer to that imo is defensive skills which is the whole point. Your ability to effective block attacks, dodge attacks, and parry now. All matter allowing you to reduce dmg you take and have their own skills on CD. On top of other defensive passives you might have (higher protect to first CC hitting you). It means someone who is good defensively can win in that kind of situation, and creates a skill ceiling around that element of gameplay. People who are not as good defensively will have a higher chance of losing engagements until they increase their own skill. Edit* I see you liked that post which was a passive aggressive insult to me. Make sure you watch my video and understand what is going on in it. As the post is just throwing misinformation as they didn't watch the full clip. 0 reason to like that post which is a blatant lie + passive aggressive vibes. I mean I don't think his post was insulting but I don't control how you see it. I do think attributing an argument against 10 seconds as a skill issue has more of a claim to what could be deemed insulting. With that said I'm not interested in getting in an insult war with you as I generally like your posts. It's just clear we disagree on this issue. Your video of 1v1 in a fighter game gives light on how you could see it as a skill issue, but I don't think that genre is a fair translation to AoC and the argument at hand. Sounds pretty convenient to say you don't control how i see things, when i pointed out the issues with the post directly and you are doubling down. But ok Insult war, funny. 1. You are taking what i said as if it is in your own shoes directly and not for general players. 2. You are a type of player that doesn't dodge attacks, etc. 3. Your mind set is fully tab target and it doesn't make sense yo be able to dodge attacks. You are trying to use a convenient term "disagreement" when I've directly pointed out elements. As you can't refute them so its easier for you to ignore things, and i guess just like "disingenuous" post rather than actually have a discussion. What i see in soul calibur has nothing to do with the disccusion about things being a skill issue. And only related to you talking about it isn't fun to win in 15 seconds in a fighting game. Now why i see the potential skill ceiling with AoC is because of what has been talked about and shown in the GAME. Elements you clearly have missed or are ignoring. Elements that include 1. Being able to miss attacks 2. Being able to dodge attacks 3. Full universal skill tree for defensive passives / effects for players (this is new) 4. Active Dodge, block, parry 5. Abilities in kits to have movement (warrior jump, cleric skill, wizard teleport, etc) In what world are we going to keep ignoring the potential of these skills in the hands of a veteran player, and the skill ceiling that it can add to reduce / negate dmg and waste CDs of players. Steven said 10-15 second average when players are of the same level and gear score. He did not say 10-15 second average if no 'defensive elements' were used. I'm not ignoring your points because they're inconvenient, but because they are already implied within the 10-15 second TTK so it's a waste of time to debate it. Please show me the quote where its implied, @NiKr you can as well since you are supporting the point. I'm open to seeing the point where they have included the defensive skill tree as well, you know the one that is in development and we haven't seen yet. And how it was tested and how it works with things.
Depraved wrote: » seems to me that they just measure attacking an afk player.
Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Individuated Soul wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: » I don't think the context is that necessary. PvP video games have been around since 1991, and 15 second rounds of Street Fighter are deeply unsatisfying. Going even lower than that for, as Steven stated, even gear levels is even worse. Maybe take a moment to look into games about fighting one another, and use them as a measuring stick for what feels good in terms of engagement. Once you have that, gear scaling and group sizing handles the rest. If i win in 15 secs i feel good because that means i did a big ass combo, I was clean, I was perfect lmao. Unless the person is just bad. Back to my years old figght game clips https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/mag7spy/video/112737389 Second round was won in 12 seconds and was extremely satisfying 15 seconds is more tolerable from an average TTK, similar items core. 10 seconds average is not IMO as again you will get sub 10s kills from item disparity. It's akin to twinking brackets in Classic WoW. Stomping people with low TTK feels good, but there isn't much depth to it. Make it 15 - 20 average and I think both thought camps will be happy. To me this sounds like a skill issue. IF you have no defensive ability to dodge / avoid damage. Stand still and take all hits without retaliating properly. You should be dying quickly until you can show me you can learn to pvp. There is no issue if your skill set is that bad. If you have skill you aren't going to die instantly lol. I think my gaming ability is just fine. Ironically 10s TTK would probably require less skill. Who has their CDs up wins. You engages first? Probably going to win. The ceiling for skill to be showcased is diminished at 10s AVERAGE. We can make a argument if you stand still and do not fight back(well), use abilities smartly or dodge. That indeed would be a skill issue. Now if you are doing all those elements there shouldn't be a reason you die quickly. We can go with the argument that for some reason someone is on CDS, and if they can't out play ona general level because of that it be a lower skill ceiling. The answer to that imo is defensive skills which is the whole point. Your ability to effective block attacks, dodge attacks, and parry now. All matter allowing you to reduce dmg you take and have their own skills on CD. On top of other defensive passives you might have (higher protect to first CC hitting you). It means someone who is good defensively can win in that kind of situation, and creates a skill ceiling around that element of gameplay. People who are not as good defensively will have a higher chance of losing engagements until they increase their own skill. Edit* I see you liked that post which was a passive aggressive insult to me. Make sure you watch my video and understand what is going on in it. As the post is just throwing misinformation as they didn't watch the full clip. 0 reason to like that post which is a blatant lie + passive aggressive vibes. I mean I don't think his post was insulting but I don't control how you see it. I do think attributing an argument against 10 seconds as a skill issue has more of a claim to what could be deemed insulting. With that said I'm not interested in getting in an insult war with you as I generally like your posts. It's just clear we disagree on this issue. Your video of 1v1 in a fighter game gives light on how you could see it as a skill issue, but I don't think that genre is a fair translation to AoC and the argument at hand. Sounds pretty convenient to say you don't control how i see things, when i pointed out the issues with the post directly and you are doubling down. But ok Insult war, funny. 1. You are taking what i said as if it is in your own shoes directly and not for general players. 2. You are a type of player that doesn't dodge attacks, etc. 3. Your mind set is fully tab target and it doesn't make sense yo be able to dodge attacks. You are trying to use a convenient term "disagreement" when I've directly pointed out elements. As you can't refute them so its easier for you to ignore things, and i guess just like "disingenuous" post rather than actually have a discussion. What i see in soul calibur has nothing to do with the disccusion about things being a skill issue. And only related to you talking about it isn't fun to win in 15 seconds in a fighting game. Now why i see the potential skill ceiling with AoC is because of what has been talked about and shown in the GAME. Elements you clearly have missed or are ignoring. Elements that include 1. Being able to miss attacks 2. Being able to dodge attacks 3. Full universal skill tree for defensive passives / effects for players (this is new) 4. Active Dodge, block, parry 5. Abilities in kits to have movement (warrior jump, cleric skill, wizard teleport, etc) In what world are we going to keep ignoring the potential of these skills in the hands of a veteran player, and the skill ceiling that it can add to reduce / negate dmg and waste CDs of players. Steven said 10-15 second average when players are of the same level and gear score. He did not say 10-15 second average if no 'defensive elements' were used. I'm not ignoring your points because they're inconvenient, but because they are already implied within the 10-15 second TTK so it's a waste of time to debate it. Please show me the quote where its implied, @NiKr you can as well since you are supporting the point. I'm open to seeing the point where they have included the defensive skill tree as well, you know the one that is in development and we haven't seen yet. And how it was tested and how it works with things. https://youtu.be/vygDXte1AX8?feature=shared Skip to the TTK question.
NiKr wrote: » Depraved wrote: » seems to me that they just measure attacking an afk player. In that quote above Steven explains, dps kill each other faster, while others kill each other slower, but average is ~10 for "faster" and ~30 for "slower". To me that phrasing implies not a "the target doesn't do shit" test. edit to add: I'm mainly taking that implication because otherwise healers and tanks dying THREE TIMES as slow would imply that their hp/def values are fucking three times higher than that of dps (if it was a "target doesn't do shit' test) and I sure as hell hope that is not the case, especially considering how both cleric and tank were considered kinda OP in A1 cause one could both heal and do dmg, while the other was a CC machine that still did ok dps. So them just standing around and STILL dying in 30s instead of 10s would imply that if were they do use their skills - they'd be literally unbeatable.
GreatPhilisopher wrote: » PVP TTK should be 30-45/50 seconds cuz when you put into account higher gear , lvls difference ,ganks, zergs, sneak attacks ,players finding ways to break the game or find op funny combos or class builds and all sort of stuff they do that TTK will be cut by 15-20 secs at least. PVE ttk for normal mobs should be 10 seconds or around it not too long not too short and let the mobs feel dangerous and threatening
Mag7spy wrote: » Pretty insulting post ill just say that right off the bat. You are jumping in here literally to be disingenuous and try to twist up the post. If you are going to respond to a post make sure you understand the context, which the context is the suggestion its not satisfying in a fighting game to win in 15 seconds (to me it is hens the clip). You are heavily trying to read into the post than just take it for what it is. Also u clearly didn't watch the video talking about someone being almost dead. Next time watch the full video for the full context. Or do i need to spoon feed you every element of the video... I guess I need to do that. You see in the video there is 2 rounds that happen one is mid way from the first round. Clearly you can see that is above 20 seconds in time. But you see in the last round you can clearly do as you said, and actually you know...count the time its right there. And you can see its 12 seconds into the round. That means under 15 seconds.. Please don't say what i enjoy you don't know me, and you didn't understand the context of the clip to begin with. You were racing to say some non-sense showing you were coming at this to be negative to begin with. Though ill be happy to have an apology if you weren't trying to be an ass.
