Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Is dropping your gear when you die really that terrible? If you attack a caravan, or even defend a caravan and you die, should you not have risk? Maybe you steal the caravan and make tons of money. Maybe you die and lose a gear set. Regear and move on. Its more of a mind set. In Eve if you lose a ship, its frustrating, but its a consumable. In Albion, you dont get attached to gear sets since eventually you will lose it. There are ways in both games to be safe and never lose them, but then you never have access to the hardest content, or best crafting resources. Its risk vs reward and a chance in mind set. Has there ever been a statement from Interpid about how hard gear is to obtain? Eve and Albion both make gear relatively easy to get. The super high end stuff is expensive, but most people are only using truely max level gear for imporant fights.
Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » If crafters cant make money because low level items are not in demand, then higher end items will cost infintantly more because of the lack of crafters that can do it. If only one crafter can build the item, they can charge an infinate amount of money for it, same goes with processer. or even gatherer if it needs max skills to do it. If you dont have a way for the mid level items to be expended( ie a gear sink), higher level stuff will die off.
Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » If there is to be a player driven economy, a gear sink is 100% needed.
Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The basics of gear churn that Ashes is set to have is an existing, working model for games with similar economies - Archeage being the most obvious. The main driver for gear in this economy is the desire for some players to want that additional 1 or 2%, getting that gets exponentially harder and sees the player go through more and more gear. Archage didnt realy work though atleast not when i played it on release, you only need 1 piece of gear and never needed replaced once u git high level unless u risk breaking it to get high + on it which was rare for people to do so crafter turning out weapons at a much much higher rate than they were needed. Archage was slightly better than say WoW i guess since there a small need for replacing weapon when one break breaks but it was to rare to make a crafting economy I do think AoC will be slightly better here since it atleast uses resources to repair so that will help processors/harvesters but it skips weapon/armor crafters though so they hit a wall where there making thing that cant be sold due to everyone at the point of not needing them anymore cause there BIS or what not. Albion probaly did it best for player economy but gear was each come easy go which wont be the case for AoC it seems. So i feel mabinogi would be the best system for AoC which worked this way Each time your repaired a piece of equipment there was a chance the max durability would decrease slightly based on skill of the repairer (ranged from 90%-99%) for each point of dura repaired to fail and lower the max dura by that much. This creates a situation where the gear needs to be replaced eventually when max dura gets to low. You could expand on this to a degree by allowing you to merge dmg items with crafted gear of same teir to regain some max durability that was lost this would keep a demand for crafted armor/weapons and allow people to keep X gear by refrshing it durability when it low. Either way without a gear sink for crafted items player economy for crafters dont work If I remember right, you left the game very early. I want to say around the time of the thunderstruck tree change. At that point in time, the games economy wasn't even properly up and running. One thing I will always give XL props on is that they knew how to easy a games economy along. Realistically, the games economy wasn't fully functional (at the top level, at least) until about a year in to a new server release. At that point, it wasn't uncommon to see someone blow through 20+ of an item at celestial quality in a sitting, trying to get to divine or epic. When players are buying then destroying 20+ of an item in a day, the player driven economy thrives under it. This is a part of the reason why I have always said gear in Ashes needs to be somewhat worthwhile - if gear isn't worthwhile - if spending that time and money for a small shot at a 2% upgrade to one piece of gear isn't worth it - then the economy will fall. i played long enough to see multiple people quit the game due to there +7/8/9 weapon breaking on them on an upgrade and never come back Four points. First, literally never once heard regrade levels referred to as numbers for Archeage. Not one time in 10 years of being associated with the game. Second, you didn't see people quit from regarding weapons to that point, because the 7th grade had no break chance. While I'm happy to put this down to it being years ago, details are important. Third, obviously people left over this. Some people are stupid and regrade what they can't afford to lose. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the system, it means there is something wrong with that player. Fourth, every player I knew personally do this did it as their way of signing off from the game. Take all your gear, regrade it until it blows up and log out. I never once saw a single player that knew what they were doing leave teh game over failed regrading. I saw a few people that didn't know what they were doing leave, but see point three for that. Well i know 7 people who quit cause regrade broke the weapon, 2 in guild 3 more in the pirate nation (when i was a pirate) and 2 more from friendly guild on same server that i was aware of.
Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The basics of gear churn that Ashes is set to have is an existing, working model for games with similar economies - Archeage being the most obvious. The main driver for gear in this economy is the desire for some players to want that additional 1 or 2%, getting that gets exponentially harder and sees the player go through more and more gear. Archage didnt realy work though atleast not when i played it on release, you only need 1 piece of gear and never needed replaced once u git high level unless u risk breaking it to get high + on it which was rare for people to do so crafter turning out weapons at a much much higher rate than they were needed. Archage was slightly better than say WoW i guess since there a small need for replacing weapon when one break breaks but it was to rare to make a crafting economy I do think AoC will be slightly better here since it atleast uses resources to repair so that will help processors/harvesters but it skips weapon/armor crafters though so they hit a wall where there making thing that cant be sold due to everyone at the point of not needing them anymore cause there BIS or what not. Albion probaly did it best for player economy but gear was each come easy go which wont be the case for AoC it seems. So i feel mabinogi would be the best system for AoC which worked this way Each time your repaired a piece of equipment there was a chance the max durability would decrease slightly based on skill of the repairer (ranged from 90%-99%) for each point of dura repaired to fail and lower the max dura by that much. This creates a situation where the gear needs to be replaced eventually when max dura gets to low. You could expand on this to a degree by allowing you to merge dmg items with crafted gear of same teir to regain some max durability that was lost this would keep a demand for crafted armor/weapons and allow people to keep X gear by refrshing it durability when it low. Either way without a gear sink for crafted items player economy for crafters dont work If I remember right, you left the game very early. I want to say around the time of the thunderstruck tree change. At that point in time, the games economy wasn't even properly up and running. One thing I will always give XL props on is that they knew how to easy a games economy along. Realistically, the games economy wasn't fully functional (at the top level, at least) until about a year in to a new server release. At that point, it wasn't uncommon to see someone blow through 20+ of an item at celestial quality in a sitting, trying to get to divine or epic. When players are buying then destroying 20+ of an item in a day, the player driven economy thrives under it. This is a part of the reason why I have always said gear in Ashes needs to be somewhat worthwhile - if gear isn't worthwhile - if spending that time and money for a small shot at a 2% upgrade to one piece of gear isn't worth it - then the economy will fall. i played long enough to see multiple people quit the game due to there +7/8/9 weapon breaking on them on an upgrade and never come back Four points. First, literally never once heard regrade levels referred to as numbers for Archeage. Not one time in 10 years of being associated with the game. Second, you didn't see people quit from regarding weapons to that point, because the 7th grade had no break chance. While I'm happy to put this down to it being years ago, details are important. Third, obviously people left over this. Some people are stupid and regrade what they can't afford to lose. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the system, it means there is something wrong with that player. Fourth, every player I knew personally do this did it as their way of signing off from the game. Take all your gear, regrade it until it blows up and log out. I never once saw a single player that knew what they were doing leave teh game over failed regrading. I saw a few people that didn't know what they were doing leave, but see point three for that.
Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The basics of gear churn that Ashes is set to have is an existing, working model for games with similar economies - Archeage being the most obvious. The main driver for gear in this economy is the desire for some players to want that additional 1 or 2%, getting that gets exponentially harder and sees the player go through more and more gear. Archage didnt realy work though atleast not when i played it on release, you only need 1 piece of gear and never needed replaced once u git high level unless u risk breaking it to get high + on it which was rare for people to do so crafter turning out weapons at a much much higher rate than they were needed. Archage was slightly better than say WoW i guess since there a small need for replacing weapon when one break breaks but it was to rare to make a crafting economy I do think AoC will be slightly better here since it atleast uses resources to repair so that will help processors/harvesters but it skips weapon/armor crafters though so they hit a wall where there making thing that cant be sold due to everyone at the point of not needing them anymore cause there BIS or what not. Albion probaly did it best for player economy but gear was each come easy go which wont be the case for AoC it seems. So i feel mabinogi would be the best system for AoC which worked this way Each time your repaired a piece of equipment there was a chance the max durability would decrease slightly based on skill of the repairer (ranged from 90%-99%) for each point of dura repaired to fail and lower the max dura by that much. This creates a situation where the gear needs to be replaced eventually when max dura gets to low. You could expand on this to a degree by allowing you to merge dmg items with crafted gear of same teir to regain some max durability that was lost this would keep a demand for crafted armor/weapons and allow people to keep X gear by refrshing it durability when it low. Either way without a gear sink for crafted items player economy for crafters dont work If I remember right, you left the game very early. I want to say around the time of the thunderstruck tree change. At that point in time, the games economy wasn't even properly up and running. One thing I will always give XL props on is that they knew how to easy a games economy along. Realistically, the games economy wasn't fully functional (at the top level, at least) until about a year in to a new server release. At that point, it wasn't uncommon to see someone blow through 20+ of an item at celestial quality in a sitting, trying to get to divine or epic. When players are buying then destroying 20+ of an item in a day, the player driven economy thrives under it. This is a part of the reason why I have always said gear in Ashes needs to be somewhat worthwhile - if gear isn't worthwhile - if spending that time and money for a small shot at a 2% upgrade to one piece of gear isn't worth it - then the economy will fall. i played long enough to see multiple people quit the game due to there +7/8/9 weapon breaking on them on an upgrade and never come back
Noaani wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The basics of gear churn that Ashes is set to have is an existing, working model for games with similar economies - Archeage being the most obvious. The main driver for gear in this economy is the desire for some players to want that additional 1 or 2%, getting that gets exponentially harder and sees the player go through more and more gear. Archage didnt realy work though atleast not when i played it on release, you only need 1 piece of gear and never needed replaced once u git high level unless u risk breaking it to get high + on it which was rare for people to do so crafter turning out weapons at a much much higher rate than they were needed. Archage was slightly better than say WoW i guess since there a small need for replacing weapon when one break breaks but it was to rare to make a crafting economy I do think AoC will be slightly better here since it atleast uses resources to repair so that will help processors/harvesters but it skips weapon/armor crafters though so they hit a wall where there making thing that cant be sold due to everyone at the point of not needing them anymore cause there BIS or what not. Albion probaly did it best for player economy but gear was each come easy go which wont be the case for AoC it seems. So i feel mabinogi would be the best system for AoC which worked this way Each time your repaired a piece of equipment there was a chance the max durability would decrease slightly based on skill of the repairer (ranged from 90%-99%) for each point of dura repaired to fail and lower the max dura by that much. This creates a situation where the gear needs to be replaced eventually when max dura gets to low. You could expand on this to a degree by allowing you to merge dmg items with crafted gear of same teir to regain some max durability that was lost this would keep a demand for crafted armor/weapons and allow people to keep X gear by refrshing it durability when it low. Either way without a gear sink for crafted items player economy for crafters dont work If I remember right, you left the game very early. I want to say around the time of the thunderstruck tree change. At that point in time, the games economy wasn't even properly up and running. One thing I will always give XL props on is that they knew how to easy a games economy along. Realistically, the games economy wasn't fully functional (at the top level, at least) until about a year in to a new server release. At that point, it wasn't uncommon to see someone blow through 20+ of an item at celestial quality in a sitting, trying to get to divine or epic. When players are buying then destroying 20+ of an item in a day, the player driven economy thrives under it. This is a part of the reason why I have always said gear in Ashes needs to be somewhat worthwhile - if gear isn't worthwhile - if spending that time and money for a small shot at a 2% upgrade to one piece of gear isn't worth it - then the economy will fall.
Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The basics of gear churn that Ashes is set to have is an existing, working model for games with similar economies - Archeage being the most obvious. The main driver for gear in this economy is the desire for some players to want that additional 1 or 2%, getting that gets exponentially harder and sees the player go through more and more gear. Archage didnt realy work though atleast not when i played it on release, you only need 1 piece of gear and never needed replaced once u git high level unless u risk breaking it to get high + on it which was rare for people to do so crafter turning out weapons at a much much higher rate than they were needed. Archage was slightly better than say WoW i guess since there a small need for replacing weapon when one break breaks but it was to rare to make a crafting economy I do think AoC will be slightly better here since it atleast uses resources to repair so that will help processors/harvesters but it skips weapon/armor crafters though so they hit a wall where there making thing that cant be sold due to everyone at the point of not needing them anymore cause there BIS or what not. Albion probaly did it best for player economy but gear was each come easy go which wont be the case for AoC it seems. So i feel mabinogi would be the best system for AoC which worked this way Each time your repaired a piece of equipment there was a chance the max durability would decrease slightly based on skill of the repairer (ranged from 90%-99%) for each point of dura repaired to fail and lower the max dura by that much. This creates a situation where the gear needs to be replaced eventually when max dura gets to low. You could expand on this to a degree by allowing you to merge dmg items with crafted gear of same teir to regain some max durability that was lost this would keep a demand for crafted armor/weapons and allow people to keep X gear by refrshing it durability when it low. Either way without a gear sink for crafted items player economy for crafters dont work
Noaani wrote: » The basics of gear churn that Ashes is set to have is an existing, working model for games with similar economies - Archeage being the most obvious. The main driver for gear in this economy is the desire for some players to want that additional 1 or 2%, getting that gets exponentially harder and sees the player go through more and more gear.
Dygz wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Take new world and tool crafting the moment everyone hit lvl 30 tools lvl 30 and below tools were pointless to craft since u could never sell any, when everyone eventualy hit max level there was nolonger any market for crafting tools and they never got sold. Only a handful of toolcrafters made money here since they were ahead of the skill curve so there items were needed as people hit them but people behind the curve never sold anything cause there items were already obsolete by the time they hit that new tier of tool. NW is a Survival Game; not an MMORPG. Crafting is not the same. I can easily make all my own stuff in NW. new world is not even close to a survival game it 100% an MMO (it might have started as a mor survival based game during alpha but that got walked back and gutted pretty much removed all survival elements when they removed the full loot, now if u dont like new world WoW also had the same issue craft BIS crafted items sell BIS crafted items, everyone gets BIS crafted items or better none that craft is useless The only crafts that remain relevant in WoW (Atleast up to Lich king i stopped playing then so could of changed) are consumables crafting and enchanting, pretty much alchemy, enchanting and cooking to a degree were the only profitable crafts after the initial launch of the game, they did end up adding consumable to other crafting profession to make them somewhat relevant (armor patches and what not) but realy it no where near MrPockets wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Is dropping your gear when you die really that terrible? If you attack a caravan, or even defend a caravan and you die, should you not have risk? Maybe you steal the caravan and make tons of money. Maybe you die and lose a gear set. Regear and move on. Its more of a mind set. In Eve if you lose a ship, its frustrating, but its a consumable. In Albion, you dont get attached to gear sets since eventually you will lose it. There are ways in both games to be safe and never lose them, but then you never have access to the hardest content, or best crafting resources. Its risk vs reward and a chance in mind set. Has there ever been a statement from Interpid about how hard gear is to obtain? Eve and Albion both make gear relatively easy to get. The super high end stuff is expensive, but most people are only using truely max level gear for imporant fights. I'm totally with you on this @Zipp_Adoudel . The mind set to losing/replacing gear is a big hurdle for many players. Personally my focus for alpha 2 will be around the economy and crafting aspects. I have the same concerns about a lack of gear sink. I'm always on the lookout for games that actually support being a full time crafter. (Specifically crafting and not gather + crafting). So far Albion is the only game I've played with a sophisticated enough economy to make crafting not feel like an afterthought. yep people get too attached to gear which end up causing issues when it comes to player ran economies, thats why main suggestion to help here is to use crafted gear to be used to repair items player has this keep the demand for crafted armors/weapon and crafters relevant once people get geared up
Veeshan wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Take new world and tool crafting the moment everyone hit lvl 30 tools lvl 30 and below tools were pointless to craft since u could never sell any, when everyone eventualy hit max level there was nolonger any market for crafting tools and they never got sold. Only a handful of toolcrafters made money here since they were ahead of the skill curve so there items were needed as people hit them but people behind the curve never sold anything cause there items were already obsolete by the time they hit that new tier of tool. NW is a Survival Game; not an MMORPG. Crafting is not the same. I can easily make all my own stuff in NW.
Veeshan wrote: » Take new world and tool crafting the moment everyone hit lvl 30 tools lvl 30 and below tools were pointless to craft since u could never sell any, when everyone eventualy hit max level there was nolonger any market for crafting tools and they never got sold. Only a handful of toolcrafters made money here since they were ahead of the skill curve so there items were needed as people hit them but people behind the curve never sold anything cause there items were already obsolete by the time they hit that new tier of tool.
MrPockets wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Is dropping your gear when you die really that terrible? If you attack a caravan, or even defend a caravan and you die, should you not have risk? Maybe you steal the caravan and make tons of money. Maybe you die and lose a gear set. Regear and move on. Its more of a mind set. In Eve if you lose a ship, its frustrating, but its a consumable. In Albion, you dont get attached to gear sets since eventually you will lose it. There are ways in both games to be safe and never lose them, but then you never have access to the hardest content, or best crafting resources. Its risk vs reward and a chance in mind set. Has there ever been a statement from Interpid about how hard gear is to obtain? Eve and Albion both make gear relatively easy to get. The super high end stuff is expensive, but most people are only using truely max level gear for imporant fights. I'm totally with you on this @Zipp_Adoudel . The mind set to losing/replacing gear is a big hurdle for many players. Personally my focus for alpha 2 will be around the economy and crafting aspects. I have the same concerns about a lack of gear sink. I'm always on the lookout for games that actually support being a full time crafter. (Specifically crafting and not gather + crafting). So far Albion is the only game I've played with a sophisticated enough economy to make crafting not feel like an afterthought.
NiKr wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » He basically said there will be a loot table that is set according to the size that is expected to do it. That could mean a ton of things. If there is to be a player driven economy, a gear sink is 100% needed. Go rewatch the q&a. He says "the reward is finite, so if you take more people to it - you'll get less of a reward than if you had taken fewer people". This is literally how L2 worked and why zergs there had to work for a long time to gear up their members.
Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » He basically said there will be a loot table that is set according to the size that is expected to do it. That could mean a ton of things. If there is to be a player driven economy, a gear sink is 100% needed.
Depraved wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » If there is to be a player driven economy, a gear sink is 100% needed. not really. already explained it.You didnt really explain it. a gear sink is needed as I stated. I don't feel that your explaination alone is enough Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » If crafters cant make money because low level items are not in demand, then higher end items will cost infintantly more because of the lack of crafters that can do it. If only one crafter can build the item, they can charge an infinate amount of money for it, same goes with processer. or even gatherer if it needs max skills to do it. If you dont have a way for the mid level items to be expended( ie a gear sink), higher level stuff will die off. also wrong. crafters will sell for what people are willing to pay. you can say that maybe the first couple of weapons of a kind will be really expensive, but price will always drop, since people cant afford it. no point in selling a weapon for 1 million when the richest person in the server only has 100,000 and the average player is only willing to pay 30,000 for example. you might eventually sell it for a million, after a long time when everybody is rich.
Veeshan wrote: » new world is not even close to a survival game it 100% an MMO (it might have started as a mor survival based game during alpha but that got walked back and gutted pretty much removed all survival elements when they removed the full loot, now if u dont like new world WoW also had the same issue craft BIS crafted items sell BIS crafted items, everyone gets BIS crafted items or better none that craft is useless
Veeshan wrote: » Has there ever been a statement from Interpid about how hard gear is to obtain? Eve and Albion both make gear relatively easy to get. The super high end stuff is expensive, but most people are only using truely max level gear for important fights.
Veeshan wrote: » yep people get too attached to gear which end up causing issues when it comes to player ran economies, thats why main suggestion to help here is to use crafted gear to be used to repair items player has this keep the demand for crafted armors/weapon and crafters relevant once people get geared up
Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » If there is to be a player driven economy, a gear sink is 100% needed. not really. already explained it.You didnt really explain it. a gear sink is needed as I stated. I don't feel that your explaination alone is enough Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » If crafters cant make money because low level items are not in demand, then higher end items will cost infintantly more because of the lack of crafters that can do it. If only one crafter can build the item, they can charge an infinate amount of money for it, same goes with processer. or even gatherer if it needs max skills to do it. If you dont have a way for the mid level items to be expended( ie a gear sink), higher level stuff will die off. also wrong. crafters will sell for what people are willing to pay. you can say that maybe the first couple of weapons of a kind will be really expensive, but price will always drop, since people cant afford it. no point in selling a weapon for 1 million when the richest person in the server only has 100,000 and the average player is only willing to pay 30,000 for example. you might eventually sell it for a million, after a long time when everybody is rich. If this is the case, only the biggest and best groups will have the high end gear because they can have a monopoly on it. They will recruit the crafters and pay them not to make stuff for others. That sounds like a great game to be in as well.
Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Looking through the wiki and listening to stream one question keeps popping up regarding a player driven economy. What is going to destroy gear? In order for people to keep needing gear, it has to be destroyed. In games like albion and eve online, when a player is killed, half of the gear is destroyed and the other half is dropped. These are both very PVP focused games, but they both have realistic economies and they are player driven. What is the plan with AoC? I see that some gear may drop if you go corrupted, but that doesnt destroy gear. Repair might take resources and even rare or unique resources, but in order to train artisans, you need new orders for them to build? Repair requires them to have the broken gear. My concern is that as the servers mature, the market will die off as people get all the gear they could want. New players will not have a reason to craft as most players will have everything they need and getting repairs will become very hard.
Diamaht wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Looking through the wiki and listening to stream one question keeps popping up regarding a player driven economy. What is going to destroy gear? In order for people to keep needing gear, it has to be destroyed. In games like albion and eve online, when a player is killed, half of the gear is destroyed and the other half is dropped. These are both very PVP focused games, but they both have realistic economies and they are player driven. What is the plan with AoC? I see that some gear may drop if you go corrupted, but that doesnt destroy gear. Repair might take resources and even rare or unique resources, but in order to train artisans, you need new orders for them to build? Repair requires them to have the broken gear. My concern is that as the servers mature, the market will die off as people get all the gear they could want. New players will not have a reason to craft as most players will have everything they need and getting repairs will become very hard. Items need to leave an economy to make room for new items. But gamers have a hard time with that.
Depraved wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Looking through the wiki and listening to stream one question keeps popping up regarding a player driven economy. What is going to destroy gear? In order for people to keep needing gear, it has to be destroyed. In games like albion and eve online, when a player is killed, half of the gear is destroyed and the other half is dropped. These are both very PVP focused games, but they both have realistic economies and they are player driven. What is the plan with AoC? I see that some gear may drop if you go corrupted, but that doesnt destroy gear. Repair might take resources and even rare or unique resources, but in order to train artisans, you need new orders for them to build? Repair requires them to have the broken gear. My concern is that as the servers mature, the market will die off as people get all the gear they could want. New players will not have a reason to craft as most players will have everything they need and getting repairs will become very hard. Items need to leave an economy to make room for new items. But gamers have a hard time with that. not necessarily. coke didnt have to leave the market for pepsi to come in and sell. sure mmorpg are a bit different, but again, you dont need (main) gear destruction. new items can be introduced before everybody gets 100% of the current items. that keeps the economy going forever without having to re farm your main gear every 2 days instead of doing something else when you are in game.
Laetitian wrote: » The low-levelled or cheaply equipped players are the backbone of the economy.
Diamaht wrote: » Can any of you provide a working example of a thriving mmo economy where items never leave? Eve and SWG are examples where items exited and the economies were healthy because of it.
Noaani wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Can any of you provide a working example of a thriving mmo economy where items never leave? Eve and SWG are examples where items exited and the economies were healthy because of it. Archeage. Items only leave if destroyed via regrading (same as Ashes - almost as if they literally copied it). The games economy is second only to EVE as far as MMO's go.
Diamaht wrote: » I'm assuming players are heavily incentivized to regrade?
Diamaht wrote: » I'd say if Intrepid won't do decay then they will have to: 1 Massively incentivise enchanting 2 Make enchanting beneficial to everyone. Including and especially low level players. 3 Make repairs very cost prohibitive. 4 Make sure that multiple sets of gear are needed to do different types of content. 5 Be extremely active in introducing new content that high level characters need new gear for.
Laetitian wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Zipp_Adoudel wrote: » Looking through the wiki and listening to stream one question keeps popping up regarding a player driven economy. What is going to destroy gear? In order for people to keep needing gear, it has to be destroyed. In games like albion and eve online, when a player is killed, half of the gear is destroyed and the other half is dropped. These are both very PVP focused games, but they both have realistic economies and they are player driven. What is the plan with AoC? I see that some gear may drop if you go corrupted, but that doesnt destroy gear. Repair might take resources and even rare or unique resources, but in order to train artisans, you need new orders for them to build? Repair requires them to have the broken gear. My concern is that as the servers mature, the market will die off as people get all the gear they could want. New players will not have a reason to craft as most players will have everything they need and getting repairs will become very hard. Items need to leave an economy to make room for new items. But gamers have a hard time with that. not necessarily. coke didnt have to leave the market for pepsi to come in and sell. sure mmorpg are a bit different, but again, you dont need (main) gear destruction. new items can be introduced before everybody gets 100% of the current items. that keeps the economy going forever without having to re farm your main gear every 2 days instead of doing something else when you are in game. I agree with all the other points made in favour of Ashes' economy; this one I think is the weakest. You're removing the incentive for new players to engage in the content older players did to craft their gear, if you just let them pass it on as new expensive stuff gets released. The low-levelled or cheaply equipped players are the backbone of the economy. If they don't have to work to loot and maintain their gear, the only one spending resources are the rich players who can spend them effortlessly, and no one has to earn anything. Keeping repair costs high, and requiring high-effort rare resources and high crafting skill for repairs of high-tier equipment will be essential, and cannot be replaced by power creep.
Diamaht wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Can any of you provide a working example of a thriving mmo economy where items never leave? Eve and SWG are examples where items exited and the economies were healthy because of it. Archeage. Items only leave if destroyed via regrading (same as Ashes - almost as if they literally copied it). The games economy is second only to EVE as far as MMO's go. I'm assuming players are heavily incentivized to regrade? Honestly I'm not really going to be able argue for or against Archeage, didn't play it long enough. All I can say is every MMO ( and I mean all of them) that didn't have some form of item sink had garbage economies. I'd say if Intrepid won't do decay then they will have to: 1 Massively incentivise enchanting 2 Make enchanting beneficial to everyone. Including and especially low level players. 3 Make repairs very cost prohibitive. 4 Make sure that multiple sets of gear are needed to do different types of content. 5 Be extremely active in introducing new content that high level characters need new gear for. Even all that won't prevent economic decay forever. All that so that no one ever has to lose their pixels..
