Idea copied from an old game, one of my all time favorites that could fit ashes perfectly.

This sounds more like a game within a game, rather than something that would fit Ashes.

Also, if I understood it correctly, this would be an instanced near-always-on mode that would directly remove people from the main game. I definitely would not want that, because minimizing instanced content is the entire point of one of the pillars of the game. Why splinter the game's playerbase when we need them to populate the world at all times.

Texas

They could take the basic idea and apply it to a node war scenario, but I agree that we don't want "separate" game modes.

Apok

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

This sounds more like a game within a game, rather than something that would fit Ashes.

Also, if I understood it correctly, this would be an instanced near-always-on mode that would directly remove people from the main game. I definitely would not want that, because minimizing instanced content is the entire point of one of the pillars of the game. Why splinter the game's playerbase when we need them to populate the world at all times.

Yeah I'm aware more people want less instanced areas, I'm with you on that too. was hoping for one game mode outside the normal world though. kinda like how WoW has battle grounds or New World with it's outpost rush. MMOs have always taken from what other MMOs have done that ended up working (which is why they all have mounts now) with ashes taking the best of the games and making everything better (hopefully) this would be their answer to wows battle grounds or final fantasies crystalline conflict

tautau

That really sounds like a different (potentially fun) game.

But it does NOT sound like Ashes of Creation.

Apok wrote: »

Yeah I'm aware more people want less instanced areas, I'm with you on that too. was hoping for one game mode outside the normal world though. kinda like how WoW has battle grounds or New World with it's outpost rush. MMOs have always taken from what other MMOs have done that ended up working (which is why they all have mounts now) with ashes taking the best of the games and making everything better (hopefully) this would be their answer to wows battle grounds or final fantasies crystalline conflict

We already have sieges, arena, story-related pve - all instanced. I already hope that arena is super limited in its gameplay per day/week/month, cause I know for sure that people will just fucking sit there and not do anything in the game.

Having an entire separate gameplay mode will only make that worse. WoW and NW are horrible examples in this context, because afaik quite a lot of people dislike those mechanics for what they are, especially when you consider that the entire point of Ashes is open world pvp, rather than what those 2 games have now.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Apok wrote: »

Yeah I'm aware more people want less instanced areas, I'm with you on that too. was hoping for one game mode outside the normal world though. kinda like how WoW has battle grounds or New World with it's outpost rush. MMOs have always taken from what other MMOs have done that ended up working (which is why they all have mounts now) with ashes taking the best of the games and making everything better (hopefully) this would be their answer to wows battle grounds or final fantasies crystalline conflict

We already have sieges, arena, story-related pve - all instanced. I already hope that arena is super limited in its gameplay per day/week/month, cause I know for sure that people will just fucking sit there and not do anything in the game.

Having an entire separate gameplay mode will only make that worse. WoW and NW are horrible examples in this context, because afaik quite a lot of people dislike those mechanics for what they are, especially when you consider that the entire point of Ashes is open world pvp, rather than what those 2 games have now.

There is 0 reason to limit pvp by not allowing constant arenas even more so when you don't get gear from doing them. Pretty much that is making less content in the game for no reason

Arenas and such is something that need to be pushed and creating a community around it as that can create a story itself for a server. It also limits people griefing greens and such as they have an outlet to pvp and have fun.

Just because there are arenas doesn't mean people are doing nothing. People use it to practice and get better, when there is major pvp stuff going on people are going to go towards that content. It makes 0 sense for you to think pvpers suddenly would not do OW pvp content. It helps fillt he void when there is less OW pvp going on in the game.

Idk why you are saying players dislike this content, im unsure where you are even getting this information as well. People enjoy this kind of content, the issue with NW is they didn't expand on it. Other mmorpgs that lack this basic kind of pvp content is also a issue.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Just because there are arenas doesn't mean people are doing nothing. People use it to practice and get better, when there is major pvp stuff going on people are going to go towards that content. It makes 0 sense for you to think pvpers suddenly would not do OW pvp content. It helps fillt he void when there is less OW pvp going on in the game.

I'm speaking from experience of L2 players completely ignoring owpvp because "I gotta run arenas, maaaan".

A ton of people will not care about owpvp if arenas are limitless, because arena is way more controlled, so they'd rather just polish their skills in 1v1s (let alone fucking 3v3s or party v party, cause that shit would be literally several times worse for the population of the server).

Mag7spy wrote: »

Idk why you are saying players dislike this content, im unsure where you are even getting this information as well. People enjoy this kind of content, the issue with NW is they didn't expand on it. Other mmorpgs that lack this basic kind of pvp content is also a issue.

I was just reiterating things I've heard from content creator communities throughout the years. Obviously the features themselves had some problems that reduced their popularity, but making them better while also keeping them as a constant instanced alternative to the rest of Ashes would make things only worse.

I want people to be forced to participate in the game that they chose to play, not sit in random gamemode that completely removes them from said game.

Ace1234

I think if you force people to do owpvp when they want to do instanced stuff they might just quit the game anyway. I know I would be irritated if I wanted to do some arena and I had to wait until certain days of the week, which might cause me to drop the game in the long run, as opposed to having the option which would make me want to stick with the game more and engage more with the open world when I am in the mood. In other words, I don't think more instanced stuff would take away from the open world, I think those people wouldn't play anyways in the long run, but giving them the instanced content they want could actually draw more people to the game and encourage them to enagage with the open word when they get tired of the instanced stuff.

Ace1234 wrote: »

I think if you force people to do owpvp when they want to do instanced stuff they might just quit the game anyway. I know I would be irritated if I wanted to do some arena and I had to wait until certain days of the week, which might cause me to drop the game in the long run, as opposed to having the option which would make me want to stick with the game more and engage more with the open world when I am in the mood. In other words, I don't think more instanced stuff would take away from the open world, I think those people wouldn't play anyways in the long run, but giving them the instanced content they want could actually draw more people to the game and encourage them to enagage with the open word when they get tired of the instanced stuff.

Ashes is not forcing anyone to do owpvp. You choose to do it. You choose to play a game that has owpvp by simply logging in. Now arena's should not have any downtime. That should not have any limitations other than maybe other players in the actual arena at that time. There will be some intanced stuff now, but it will not be the focus. If instancing becomes the focus of the game then it will fundamentally change the game's focus.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Just because there are arenas doesn't mean people are doing nothing. People use it to practice and get better, when there is major pvp stuff going on people are going to go towards that content. It makes 0 sense for you to think pvpers suddenly would not do OW pvp content. It helps fillt he void when there is less OW pvp going on in the game.

I'm speaking from experience of L2 players completely ignoring owpvp because "I gotta run arenas, maaaan".

A ton of people will not care about owpvp if arenas are limitless, because arena is way more controlled, so they'd rather just polish their skills in 1v1s (let alone fucking 3v3s or party v party, cause that shit would be literally several times worse for the population of the server).

Mag7spy wrote: »

Idk why you are saying players dislike this content, im unsure where you are even getting this information as well. People enjoy this kind of content, the issue with NW is they didn't expand on it. Other mmorpgs that lack this basic kind of pvp content is also a issue.

I was just reiterating things I've heard from content creator communities throughout the years. Obviously the features themselves had some problems that reduced their popularity, but making them better while also keeping them as a constant instanced alternative to the rest of Ashes would make things only worse.

I want people to be forced to participate in the game that they chose to play, not sit in random gamemode that completely removes them from said game.

I'm speaking from experience how current players are and not ones from 20 years ago. In NW you could get famous in their battleground mode and people would know of you and get you into sieges. I even had a rep for myself in that as well from all the people I killed in it. Communities want this sort of thing I don't know where you are going where people are saying they don't. Which also doesn't make sense because if you are talking about the bulk of people which are casual they are not screaming to be forced into pvp constantly. So it must be some smaller bias community where you are even getting this kind of thing from.

Having OWpvp content that people are active in will be an obvious thing as you need to progress your gear to become more effective, or to help your node. Most people aren't going to be ignoring that, at the same time you don't need an entire node population to be there at every war.

Arena is not a separate world, it is also something that builds the world in a pvp sense with players. And like all things players should have choices on the content they want to do. I highly doubt AoC is going for forcing people into pvp stuff 24/7.They will want casual players playing their game and not forcing people that lean more towards pve to just want to quit cause they cant pve at all since they are forced to do this pvp content.

Again i feel you try to fight for casuals but reasoning are always more towards the hardcore side that would completely kill the casual side. This topic even more so without a good reason, as PvP players will be doing owpvp content when it pops up and not only doing arena.

For clarification, are you talking about instanced arena or open world colosseum arena. I am in favor of colosseum arena, where players can sit in the stands and watch.

Mag7spy wrote: »

And like all things players should have choices on the content they want to do.

And I want those choices to not include instanced bullshit

I know that people love instanced shit. It's obvious by the genre and by my own experience. People also love a ton of things that are not good for them or others, but it doesn't mean that they should be free to do those things.

We supposedly won't have farmable instanced pve (if even repeatable at all), so why in the hell should pvpers get pure instanced content for themselves? Fuck 'em.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

And like all things players should have choices on the content they want to do.

And I want those choices to not include instanced bullshit

I know that people love instanced shit. It's obvious by the genre and by my own experience. People also love a ton of things that are not good for them or others, but it doesn't mean that they should be free to do those things.

We supposedly won't have farmable instanced pve (if even repeatable at all), so why in the hell should pvpers get pure instanced content for themselves? Fuck 'em.

You are trying to force something for no reason to the implementation becomes bad in the game. People being able to que up for arenas and fight with their build is for their own fun against people. Just liek there should be a open arena for people to walk and free for all fight randomly, there should be a qued based one as well for people wanting competitive fights.

Your point also makes 0 sense talking about pve instances and you are just throwing whatever you can at the wall. Creating hard pve instances is nothing even close allowing people to que up and fight some teams in an arena. I shouldn't even need to explain why that is a lot more work....Legit a terrible take and comparison.

Arena doesn't take away from OWpvp, you just don't want them to have it because of fear of people not doing owpvp (which makes no sense), and the fact you don't like arena. As i said before arena helps the pvp social element of the game.

Thankfully the devs know what they are doing and are not going to miss out on this. Which is what we would call a easy win, minimum work for maximum gain. https://www.ashes.wiki/Arenas

Mag7spy wrote: »

Thankfully the devs know what they are doing and are not going to miss out on this. Which is what we would call a easy win, minimum work for maximum gain. https://www.ashes.wiki/Arenas

That page says nothing about how much time a week you can spend in an arena.

In a prime-time game, as long as any instancing exists it'll inevitably take away people from open world content. Those people will be taking up server slots, while not impacting the world in any way (well, except for their absence in it).

And I don't care how long any given feature takes to develop. I care about the results of the feature on the game. And if Steven decided to minimize instanced pve for some reason - I'd imagine the same reason can be used to minimize pvp instancing.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Thankfully the devs know what they are doing and are not going to miss out on this. Which is what we would call a easy win, minimum work for maximum gain. https://www.ashes.wiki/Arenas

That page says nothing about how much time a week you can spend in an arena.

In a prime-time game, as long as any instancing exists it'll inevitably take away people from open world content. Those people will be taking up server slots, while not impacting the world in any way (well, except for their absence in it).

And I don't care how long any given feature takes to develop. I care about the results of the feature on the game. And if Steven decided to minimize instanced pve for some reason - I'd imagine the same reason can be used to minimize pvp instancing.

You are trying to skew things for your own reasoning you have no basis in this point lmao. Expectation is it will be normal akin to every other mmorpg that has arenas even more so the fact they talk about seasons.

There is no reason to minimize arenas that don't give you gear. A reason to minimize PvE instanced content isn't the some context as arena. You aren't even trying to make sense you are just saying it.

Edit*

To further drive it home you are trying to say na those 5% of players that want to focus on pve and focus on pvp arenas since they hate ow need to be froced not to have arena content just cause. Even though it hardly effects the game as a whole. And those players need to do pve to get gear to begin with which means pvx content.

Texas

Why instance Arenas to begin with? Players should fight over the entrance of the arena.

yep, open world arenas policed by the node/guild/alliance that is running it.

I guess according to the wiki it is instance based. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas I find that sad however, as you lose a lot of community involvement.

Ravicus wrote: »

I guess according to the wiki it is instance based. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas I find that sad however, as you lose a lot of community involvement.

You don't lose community involvement that doesn't make any sense. You main more community rep in the server in a wider margin based on the size of the server.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Ravicus wrote: »

I guess according to the wiki it is instance based. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas I find that sad however, as you lose a lot of community involvement.

You don't lose community involvement that doesn't make any sense. You main more community rep in the server in a wider margin based on the size of the server.

you would have community involvement in open world arenas by having to post guards and police the area. You would have the announcers and such. You would have an audience to watch the event. You have zero community involvement when you que up for an instance.

Mag7spy wrote: »

To further drive it home you are trying to say na those 5% of players that want to focus on pve and focus on pvp arenas since they hate ow need to be froced not to have arena content just cause. Even though it hardly effects the game as a whole. And those players need to do pve to get gear to begin with which means pvx content.

Yes, I want those 5% to be in the damn game and not in an instance. That's my only point

Apok

so I see people who talk about "Having to run arenas" this is one of the issues MMOs have when it comes to instanced arena play. It's supposed to be for fun outside of the over world stuff but it gets boring fast. with this concept being applied I feel like people will play it because it's fun and not because they have to grind some kind of reward.

going from simple team vs team play on infantry to what ctf extreme offered was just way better on so many levels. If you make the game mode fun you won't have to incentivize it so much. RO, WoW, L2, FFXIV all do this, the PvP they add ends up being too straight forward and boring so they make you grind out rewards out of it for something to do.

I guess after thinking about it a bit more, I'm not worried about this to much. People can still put on their own arena events in the open world. This has been done in a couple older games that I have played, and creates an environment that can spark so many different unexpected results.

Texas

Would be cool though if you.could build an arena on a barony or at a certain level military node. I thought one of the core ideas behind the game was to get away from group-queue lobby type play.

Ravicus wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Ravicus wrote: »

I guess according to the wiki it is instance based. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas I find that sad however, as you lose a lot of community involvement.

You don't lose community involvement that doesn't make any sense. You main more community rep in the server in a wider margin based on the size of the server.

you would have community involvement in open world arenas by having to post guards and police the area. You would have the announcers and such. You would have an audience to watch the event. You have zero community involvement when you que up for an instance.

This makes no sense in an open area arena u don't need guards around. The point of these place is to test dmg and such and you don't waste healing pots, mana and have no death consequences.

There is plenty of a community in qued arenas people know each other, or see people they have heard about.

People could do this in the open world, but there should be a open world arena as well. Where people can test the things i mentioned above and do whatever they want. Same way as BDO.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

To further drive it home you are trying to say na those 5% of players that want to focus on pve and focus on pvp arenas since they hate ow need to be froced not to have arena content just cause. Even though it hardly effects the game as a whole. And those players need to do pve to get gear to begin with which means pvx content.

Yes, I want those 5% to be in the damn game and not in an instance. That's my only point

So you are just wanting the game to be worse just cause from what I'm seeing. I'll trust the devs to not kill off content in the game for no reason and lower the player base, and actually work against pvp players. OR ways to get people into pvp.

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you are just wanting the game to be worse just cause from what I'm seeing.

Worse in your opinion? Yes. Worse in mine? No