StewBad wrote: » Is this a real question ?
wakkytabbaky wrote: » if there was a aggresor icon
tautau wrote: » Here is what we have confirmed about corruption:https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption@Veeshan I couldn't find your numbers on the wiki, but of course that is something that is bound to be tweaked based on testing in Alpha 2, don't you think?
Veeshan wrote: » Currently its 2 green kills makes you corrupted level 1 50 mob kills to removed corruption debuff from the 2 kills (if my memory serves i counted it one of the livesteams when he accidently went corrupted like 6 months ago) my theory is atm of that livestream along the line of this each player kill = 5 corruption point 10 corruption point make you go corrupt at level 1 (icon had a 1 inside which would indicate several severity of corruption) every 5 mob kills removes 1 point of corruption and goes away at 0 corruption.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Currently its 2 green kills makes you corrupted level 1 50 mob kills to removed corruption debuff from the 2 kills (if my memory serves i counted it one of the livesteams when he accidently went corrupted like 6 months ago) my theory is atm of that livestream along the line of this each player kill = 5 corruption point 10 corruption point make you go corrupt at level 1 (icon had a 1 inside which would indicate several severity of corruption) every 5 mob kills removes 1 point of corruption and goes away at 0 corruption. While it's true that this is what we saw in the ranger showcase, I highly doubt that the system was working anywhere near properly, so imo it'd be better to completely forget what they showed us there and either go by what they explained in the past or just wait till they tell us "this is how it works right now, so give feedback on that".
Veeshan wrote: » So yes corruption in it current state of that video is working as they said it would mechanically but the values on it is subjected to change which is expected however the initial numbers in the video gives you an idea/indication on what there originally thought was good values for it.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » So yes corruption in it current state of that video is working as they said it would mechanically but the values on it is subjected to change which is expected however the initial numbers in the video gives you an idea/indication on what there originally thought was good values for it. Unless I somehow completely missed it, there's been no quote about "your first PK doesn't give you corruption", yet the video had his second kill make him corrupted. To me, this is the system not working as been previously explained. If you have a quote somewhere that says the first PK doesn't give corruption then I'll agree that the system was working correctly. Though at that point I'd have a much bigger problem with the design
Veeshan wrote: » Going cupptuped off a single kill has the potential to lead to a corruption death circle since green players attacking somone corrupted doesnt trigger them as combatants to the corrupted player so if they defend themself there corruption debuff gets worst and worst (with exception of bounty hunters which corrupted players can kill without making it worst from my understanding).
Veeshan wrote: » and killing a random somone once (Around ur level) every now and then i wouldnt consider griefing so there no reason for corruption to kick in off one kill. its there to sop people going on a murder spree and ganking lowbie player ganking
Veeshan wrote: » tautau wrote: » Here is what we have confirmed about corruption:https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption@Veeshan I couldn't find your numbers on the wiki, but of course that is something that is bound to be tweaked based on testing in Alpha 2, don't you think? I got the numbers manually counting the kills from steven in a livestream several months ago might of been ranger one it was the one he fought mushrooms mobs :P i can see if ican find it again :P and of course that info might already be out of date but it what we have atm to go off of Edit: Ranger showcase was the video i got that info from the numbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp4H9XdKHao 29:50 = 1 kill 31:10 = 2 kill gets a red debuff head with a 1 in it (Corruption) 31:33 = 3rd kill Debuff still same 36:30 = Starts killing mobs 42:35 = Debuff goes away after 50 kills that the party did (steven was fluffing about for some and didn't hit a couple but seems they counted so seems like 50 kills erases 2 kills with the assumption that each mob is worth the same amount of corruption removal and you have 1 free kill before u go corrupt without any pve between.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » and killing a random somone once (Around ur level) every now and then i wouldnt consider griefing so there no reason for corruption to kick in off one kill. its there to sop people going on a murder spree and ganking lowbie player ganking This only works if the PKer is clearing their PK count after every kill. And I definitely hope the cost of that is really high. But then if the first kill is also "free", then this would still be really abusable, because a party (let alone a raid) can kill 8 (40++) people for free, as long as they have clean Counts. And please don't say anything about "party should get corruption for kills", cause that's been discussed to death and not a single time anyone provided any solution to the counterargument of "the killer just exists the party for a minute, kills, rejoins". The binarity of the system works great, because it's the main tool to prevent absolute majority of green murders. Free first kills would immediately increase the number of those murders by at least tenfold imo.
Veeshan wrote: » Once ur red for what ever reason everyone gonna be attacking u on sight to a degree so either need to be able to evade and clear corruption relativly quickly or there needs to be a mechanic that doesnt force you deeper into the red each time u defend urself from a green attacking you.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Once ur red for what ever reason everyone gonna be attacking u on sight to a degree so either need to be able to evade and clear corruption relativly quickly or there needs to be a mechanic that doesnt force you deeper into the red each time u defend urself from a green attacking you. Nah, I completely disagree with this. There's no "defending yourself" for a Red. Red is a mob. Everyone wants to kill them and they can't do anything about it. Nor should they be able to. That's part of the deterrent for PKing. So no, Reds should not be able to just go on killing everyone over and over and over again w/o gaining more corruption. Also, I do expect first PK to give us a fairly small amount of corruption that can be cleared within just a few minutes. But this is also the exact reason why PK count removal should be an expensive and lengthy ordeal, cause otherwise people will just quickly get their count back to 0 and go PK again w/o much of a penalty. All of this works towards the PK deterrent, so that PKing should be THE last resort action, not something that's done off the cuff randomly.
Dolyem wrote: » Grief detterent you mean. PKing does not equate to griefing.
Dolyem wrote: » Also to brush off the fact that corruption was shown as it was is just as wrong as accepting it as it being written in stone.
Dolyem wrote: » Edit: Also. Defending yourself even as a red is hardly considerable as PKing nor griefing.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Grief detterent you mean. PKing does not equate to griefing. No, I'm talking about PKing. Griefing deterrent is the PK count, which also related to the cost of count reduction. But all that other stuff is deterrent to PKing, because Steven doesn't want a shitton of PKers running around. Dolyem wrote: » Also to brush off the fact that corruption was shown as it was is just as wrong as accepting it as it being written in stone. I'm simply saying that there's been no indication that first kill will not give us corruption, so I took that showcase as having a broken system. Dolyem wrote: » Edit: Also. Defending yourself even as a red is hardly considerable as PKing nor griefing. Like I said, I completely disagree with this position, as, seemingly, does Steven. If he agreed with this position Reds would be able to defend themselves, but there's been not a single word towards that direction. So, again, fuck all Reds for killing a defenseless passive player. Yes, there always can be a good reason to PK someone, but the "goodness" will simply have to be of way higher quality, because Reds will have to be ready to not even touch another green. This is also the entire point of BHs flagging purely against PKers. THOSE are the ones that PKers can defend themselves against. Which is simply yet another proof that Steven doesn't agree with yours and Veeshan's position.
Dolyem wrote: » I'd like to hear valid reasoning why corrupted players should obtain corruption while defending themselves from random noncombatant players attacking them, but it also being fine that someone hunting them for their corruption to not give those defensive kills corruption at all? If anything it would make more sense to be the other way around, but even then it is still a bad design.
Dolyem wrote: » The only thing I've gathered from Stevens goal for the corruption system is to stop/minimize griefing. Otherwise if he didn't want PKing to happen in the first place he would easily accomplish that with an opt-out of PvP system option.
Dolyem wrote: » What would exactly be your reasoning to go against designing a system that allows for non griefing PKing while simultaneously focusing punishment on griefing? Your goal seems less about mitigating griefing and more about punishing anyone who happens to PK someone who didn't fight back, justifiably or not.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: » As for how many PKs should be happening. Imo <=1% of concurrents should be PKers (i.e. ~100 PKers across the entire map). This would then mean that around 2-3% would be victims. Absolute majority of those victims would come from places with valuable resources/mobs/bosses, so it'd be meaningful PKing. But, as Crow said, those PKers should only be able to do only a few kills at most, because after those they'll get hit with corruption-based stat dampening and shouldn't be able to kill more. Those few kills would create the 2-3% victims I mentioned, and would also give the PKers a PK count of ~3. Anything over this PK count should drastically increase the chance of dropping gear and should also give enough corruption to completely disable the PKer's combat ability. In other words, repeat killers wouldn't be able to do more than a single kill within a certain timeframe (balanced during A2). PK count reduction methods should be expensive as fuck, in terms of both time and resources/money. So anyone who wants to PK more often would have to spend their time reducing their PK count and earning money for that action, which in turn reduces their time PKing others. I'd personally also tie those methods to serving the nodes of the victims. I personally believe that this kind of system would keep the risk of getting ganked fairly high. Would keep the ability to PK someone when you really need to viable. Would bring node XP to the nodes of the victims. And, depending on how well the Guild/Node war declarations are balanced, would keep the unavoidable owPKing to a relatively low number. If people see 3% victims as "a murderbox" - I don't really know what to tell them
Noaani wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad. There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state. As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process. We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options. But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal. If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back. But others can attack you now as well. They wont lsoe faction or whatever its called now, since you attacked back. So your free game for others, no? I mean, they will become combatants too, but still. It feels weird, that the laws of Verra is, that defending yourself, opens you up for more attacks. You are supposing that there is someone in the area that wants to attack and kill you, but aren't specifically and only because they assume you will not fight back, and they don't want corruption. If there's someone around that wants to kill you fir what ever reason, they will attack you to see if you will fight back or not. There is very little reason for them to not do this. If you were willing to fight back against the first person that you defensed yourself against, you would then most likely do the same if this other player attacked you. The theoretical situation you are complaining about here isn't really a reasonable one.
Saabynator wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad. There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state. As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process. We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options. But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal. If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back. But others can attack you now as well. They wont lsoe faction or whatever its called now, since you attacked back. So your free game for others, no? I mean, they will become combatants too, but still. It feels weird, that the laws of Verra is, that defending yourself, opens you up for more attacks.
Dolyem wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad. There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state. As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process. We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options. But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal. If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back.
Saabynator wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad. There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state. As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process. We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options. But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal.
Noaani wrote: » Saabynator wrote: » I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad. There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state. As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process.
Saabynator wrote: » I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad.
