Pendragxn wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » You're correct, numerous alts isn't a playstyle they want to support, and that's on purpose. For the same reason they're not going to allow character name-changes, alts are taxing to maintain and level to effectiveness. They want you to be forced to rely on other players, so self-sufficiency is made extremely difficult. They want players to spy on each other as a sort of strife generator/'gameplay' loop, bad for the game imo but that's what they want, so the level of alts can clue other into them being either 1) new 2) potentially a spy if they're 'too' knowledgeable about the game. It becomes too easy to crank out junker spy characters if leveling is too short, but too difficult to tell one from a genuine character if leveling is too long. The 45 day range is a cushy spot that requires at least a few weeks to reach a spot of engaging with the game seriously (secondary archetype threshold), but isn't so restrictive that you couldn't make spies as a part of guild v guild conflict. There are easy ways to prevent that like having someone post their character screen before they join the guild. I mean if someone wants to go through the length of having 2 accounts and double subbing then fair play to them. I’m pretty sure there are some games that also have rules like you can only have one account or no multi-boxing. Worst thing is insider threat from people in the guild or alliance who aren’t happy that are maybe thinking of leaving or feeling left out. Those are the types of people who you need to watch out for that can be persuaded to spy or leak information. Also being strict with who can stream Zerg fights or even how they stream them like blocking out the map or putting a delay as not to give away your location or position.
Caeryl wrote: » You're correct, numerous alts isn't a playstyle they want to support, and that's on purpose. For the same reason they're not going to allow character name-changes, alts are taxing to maintain and level to effectiveness. They want you to be forced to rely on other players, so self-sufficiency is made extremely difficult. They want players to spy on each other as a sort of strife generator/'gameplay' loop, bad for the game imo but that's what they want, so the level of alts can clue other into them being either 1) new 2) potentially a spy if they're 'too' knowledgeable about the game. It becomes too easy to crank out junker spy characters if leveling is too short, but too difficult to tell one from a genuine character if leveling is too long. The 45 day range is a cushy spot that requires at least a few weeks to reach a spot of engaging with the game seriously (secondary archetype threshold), but isn't so restrictive that you couldn't make spies as a part of guild v guild conflict.
Caeryl wrote: » I think spying as a concept is stupid and won't pan out like Steven thinks because everything is run through discord anyway, but I'm just giving you part of their reasoning. Crafting is the biggest thing they want to enforce player interaction and inter-reliance.
RocketFarmer wrote: » Doesn’t have to be a lot of spies. And the best spies are sleepers, playing years for a guild to rise to the top only to stick the knife in the back. Been several games where that sort of thing has played out. Including the games Steven gets his inspiration from.
Pendragxn wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » I think spying as a concept is stupid and won't pan out like Steven thinks because everything is run through discord anyway, but I'm just giving you part of their reasoning. Crafting is the biggest thing they want to enforce player interaction and inter-reliance. Yeah I don’t think there will be a mass amount of spy’s one or two might slip through the cracks in an alliance merger. However for a seasoned ZvZ & PvP guild that knows what they’re doing there’s a lot of ways you can check someone or make it difficult for them to join on an alt or limit their access to information via discord/comms. I’m interest to see what open world scouting will be like and if people will station lookouts when doing PvX content like raids or world bosses.
Flanker wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Ashes needs people subbing to make money. They need to make a profit. Exactly. If you take a look at subscription only, a single player who plays for 2 years is more valuable than 10 players who play for 2 months and leave nanfoodle wrote: » Why this bone is something you won't let go of. I have to ask. For a long list of reasons I mentioned in this thread: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/60737/ashes-of-creation-must-dodge-this-bullet/p1 While you might consider some of them not that critical, combine all others and take a look at their total cumulative effect.
nanfoodle wrote: » Ashes needs people subbing to make money. They need to make a profit.
nanfoodle wrote: » Why this bone is something you won't let go of. I have to ask.
nanfoodle wrote: » I Remeber in EQ what we called the hell levels. EQ was slow level. You could hang out in dungeons or camps sometimes for weeks before you out leveled them. Then you hit a wall. The hell leveles.it was so long, often felt 4 x longer then a standard level. Some people even stopped playing and that's when there was no options for MMOing. EQ was the only 3D world you could RP online with friends. So think of the MMOs over the past 15 years. The high of getting sometimes 3-5 levels in an evening. Then they try Ashes at its current rate. Average gamer will take about a year to level everything you need for a rounded build. That's just one well rounded build. How many people do you really think will stick around if IS does what you are requesting? Say what, 350-450 hours. For most people they are not following this game closely. Every level will feel like a hell level. They will start to calculate that it going to take 2-3 years for an average player to get one buold rounded out. Not knowing that you will be playing end game style game at every level. Thinking it going to take 3 years to join end game. How many players will we lose? 220hrs for main path and maybe 50-100 hours to round out for all the builds you want to play. Ashes needs people subbing to make money. They need to make a profit. If myself a old school MMOer is saying and seems to be just not me. That your idea will not work, especially with the current market. What more can be said. I watch your vids but I don't agree with everything you say. Why this bone is something you won't let go of. I have to ask. What is the need (what you really want) behind the need (wanting leveling to take much longer). What is the one thing above any other you want this more then anyone else?
Flanker wrote: » And I hope you are aware of the difference between the arithmetic mean and weighed mean.
Noaani wrote: » Since I assume you are from a CIS region country, this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region.
Myosotys wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since I assume you are from a CIS region country, this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region. What the point of bringing nationalities of forum members in the topic ? What's more, to highlight a character trait common to a nationality. It's a vicious move.
Noaani wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since I assume you are from a CIS region country, this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region. What the point of bringing nationalities of forum members in the topic ? What's more, to highlight a character trait common to a nationality. It's a vicious move. It isn't a character trait, it is a trait of national governments from most countries in that region. Stating it as true is about on par with stating that the average Chinese person living in China has their social credit score to think about in relation to most actions they make, or that Korean people life by a respect system that is hard for non-Koreans to follow. It is just a fact of life in those parts of the world. Different countries are different, and often times you can much better understand people if you take this in to account (which is what I did above, and you are complaining about).
Myosotys wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since I assume you are from a CIS region country, this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region. What the point of bringing nationalities of forum members in the topic ? What's more, to highlight a character trait common to a nationality. It's a vicious move. It isn't a character trait, it is a trait of national governments from most countries in that region. Stating it as true is about on par with stating that the average Chinese person living in China has their social credit score to think about in relation to most actions they make, or that Korean people life by a respect system that is hard for non-Koreans to follow. It is just a fact of life in those parts of the world. Different countries are different, and often times you can much better understand people if you take this in to account (which is what I did above, and you are complaining about). Now you are distorting your own statement. Strangely, you didn't specify that you were talking exclusively about politicians. It's clear from the previous post that you're conflating the common character of a nationality with the political orientation of their leaders. After my comment, you claim that you were talking about political orientations only, but your previous post is clear. I assume you made a mistake, or was that on purpose?
Caeryl wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since I assume you are from a CIS region country, this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region. What the point of bringing nationalities of forum members in the topic ? What's more, to highlight a character trait common to a nationality. It's a vicious move. It isn't a character trait, it is a trait of national governments from most countries in that region. Stating it as true is about on par with stating that the average Chinese person living in China has their social credit score to think about in relation to most actions they make, or that Korean people life by a respect system that is hard for non-Koreans to follow. It is just a fact of life in those parts of the world. Different countries are different, and often times you can much better understand people if you take this in to account (which is what I did above, and you are complaining about). Now you are distorting your own statement. Strangely, you didn't specify that you were talking exclusively about politicians. It's clear from the previous post that you're conflating the common character of a nationality with the political orientation of their leaders. After my comment, you claim that you were talking about political orientations only, but your previous post is clear. I assume you made a mistake, or was that on purpose? Oh he definitely meant it as a personal attack based on nationality, but he'll spend another ten posts insisting he didn't while trying to lead you on more tangents. Better off plopping him on Ignore and disengaging.
Dygz wrote: » But, Flanker has only played Lineage II and New World.
Dygz wrote: » These polls are irrelevant for several reasons.
Dygz wrote: » Basically, Flanker’s argument is that he played Lineage 2 and loved it.
Dygz wrote: » Also, when he translates 4 hours/day of gameplay to reach 225 hours = 1.5 months… He disregards that the vast majority of MMORPG fans do not have 4 hours/day or 20+ hours per week to devote to playing video games.
Dygz wrote: » And this is even more true for a game like NW, with 60 hours to Main Story Endgame, for someone who plays 16 hours/day, but wants to take 6 months of 16/day to reach Endgame.
Noaani wrote: » Since I assume you are from a CIS region country
Noaani wrote: » this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region
Noaani wrote: » You can't just take poll results and normalize them, then claim the result is valid.
Noaani wrote: » Proof that it just doesn't work this way can be found in the fact that both times you did this above, your result was right I the middle of the range with the fewest votes.
Noaani wrote: » If I am right - or close to right - in regards to where you are from, I don't specifically blame you for this, as this kind of thing is what you would consider normal. However, it is not normal.
Noaani wrote: » It isn't a character trait, it is a trait of national governments from most countries in that region.
Dygz wrote: » African Americans code switch. Yes. And it is not unusual for people outside of African American culture to play the "Angry Black Man" card...
Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » And it is not unusual for people outside of African American culture to play the "Angry Black Man" card... That isn't an appropriate "card" to play when communicating with people from around the world.
Dygz wrote: » And it is not unusual for people outside of African American culture to play the "Angry Black Man" card...
Noaani wrote: » As an aside, I've actually been saying this for a few years on these forums, though kind of quietly. I have - years ago - used Steven Adams as an example. He made a comment about how one of his team mates in the NBA was a "cheeky monkey", and people took that as a racial slur. To him though, it was a compliment - he grew up somewhere that didn't associate the word "monkey" with anything racist, so there was no such connotation in his comment.
Flanker wrote: » Dygz wrote: » African Americans code switch. Yes. And it is not unusual for people outside of African American culture to play the "Angry Black Man" card... Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » And it is not unusual for people outside of African American culture to play the "Angry Black Man" card... That isn't an appropriate "card" to play when communicating with people from around the world. Noaani wrote: » As an aside, I've actually been saying this for a few years on these forums, though kind of quietly. I have - years ago - used Steven Adams as an example. He made a comment about how one of his team mates in the NBA was a "cheeky monkey", and people took that as a racial slur. To him though, it was a compliment - he grew up somewhere that didn't associate the word "monkey" with anything racist, so there was no such connotation in his comment. I'll let everyone make their own conclusions
nanfoodle wrote: » Your very much a lone wolf on this topic.
NiKr wrote: » Slower
Saabynator wrote: » I would generally like a slow level speed.
TheHiddenDaggerInn wrote: » Slower, I'm not gonna lie I will be playing at least 10 hour sessions and I'm sure some will be far exceeding that. I want it to really feel like a accomplishment when I get there.
tautau wrote: » Slower...once release date is known, I will give my notice at work.
AnimusRex wrote: » Slower. I think a lot of players are seeing Ashes as the game that will restore their faith in well... games. And so intend to maximise it's value and enjoy every moment. And the longer that takes, the better.
Aszkalon wrote: » Maybe it is not wrong to double the Time or do it a bit below double the time. Like Eighty to Ninety Days, instead of Fourty-Five.
mcstackerson wrote: » If you reduced the power given by levels and allowed players to participate in content as combatants at lower levels then I'm fine with having a long leveling experience, I might even prefer it.
Fantmx wrote: » Still too fast
Nerror wrote: » Make levelling twice as long and I would be happy.
Sauronplay wrote: » The level should be in accordance with the amount of lore there is and also the new expansions, which intrepid will also increase the level, but I also like it slower, since I had an unpleasant experience with NW on this topic.
SkylarckTheBotanist wrote: » As most have said above, slower
CaIwA wrote: » slower
Hinotori wrote: » Personally I'd enjoy slower. I feel like ashes is a very journey focused mmo with the dynamic content thats planned. So I think having the longer journey to also level up matches that aim.
SnowElf wrote: » I'm in favor of it. I think that it should be a time consuming feat. Players should have to invest ample time into their character and enjoy doing so.
RazThemun wrote: » I would like a slower leveling experience.
Otr wrote: » main should level 1 cm/year. alts 2 cm/year
Pyrolol wrote: » Slower, I want it to feel like I have to put in work to max my character and feel like more of an accomplishment then something that can be done quickly
CROW3 wrote: » Slower. Life is a dance enjoy it!
Ethanh37 wrote: » so I think it should be in the higher numbers( 500 hrs+ that's around 3 and half hours a day for 70 days ) here instead of low
Myosotys wrote: » Levelling is way too fast according to me. As I told in a topic a long time ago (here : https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56157/levelling-and-what-goes-with-it/p1 ) , because of the fast levelling, most of items/gear under max level will become obsolete far too quickly.
