attacking a corrupt player should make you a valid combatant for the duration of the combat

I believe that if you are corrupted, and someone attacks you (since they don't have to flag to do so), they should be a valid combatant and not make you more corrupt for killing them. In fact, I think that you should clear more corruption via fighting back and winning, (though easily exploitable). If I kill someone for looting my ashes, then go work it off with people trying to hit me, i shouldn't be more penalized for fighting back. Makes it into a vicious cycle.

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StrickenII

or, if i'm guarding a guildy that's working off their corruption, i'm not going to stand by and watch them get ganked. instead, i'm going to end up corrupt too

Pham

I disagree. The whole point of corruption is to balance the risk-reward of rpk. Part of that balance is you suffer the penalty of being free-game for anyone who wants to attack you, if you first go around just attacking and killing other non-combatants.

Solvryn

Pham wrote: »

I disagree. The whole point of corruption is to balance the risk-reward of rpk. Part of that balance is you suffer the penalty of being free-game for anyone who wants to attack you, if you first go around just attacking and killing other non-combatants.

rPK is exceedingly rare, rat behavior is more common and a lot of people provoke.

StrickenII

anyone can already attack you, you can't unflag when you're corrupted. that's enough penalty. but if you consent to attack me, i should be able to fight back without extra penalties. corruption != death sentence, you shouldn't have to run away / sit and take it. especially with people dropping their mounts and standing in the middle of things unflagged to bait the corruption in the first place

StrickenII

also, anyone attacking you has 2 advantages 1. you're on the map. and 2. they're debuffed based on how high their corruption score is. to further handicap by making it to where you can't fight back without it getting worse is a pretty bad design. that means that you can't work things off, so what's the point of the system to work it off if while you're at it, a white level 1 can kill you because you aren't allowed to fight back. not to mention, these low levels that attack corrupted people cause corruption to skyrocket (level disparity causes bigger detriment to prevent high vs low pk grief)

Hutchy1989

I kinda get why they made greens able to kill reds for free. They want red players to be isolated from everything and if greens can attack reds for free that means they can't really be protected. Best you can do is put them down yourself and give their gear back.

Veeshan

Pham wrote: »

I disagree. The whole point of corruption is to balance the risk-reward of rpk. Part of that balance is you suffer the penalty of being free-game for anyone who wants to attack you, if you first go around just attacking and killing other non-combatants.

tbh if i attacked a red player i actually want to be flagged purple due to the fact if i lose my penalty is halfed over if i stayed green

Also a red player defending themself should never gain more corruption its just bad game design all over so even if a player stays green and they attack the red player the corruption penalty should not increase since the green player activly chose to paticiapte in pvp by attacking which is the whole concept of the corruption. system
As it currently stands bounty hunter when they become a thing will activly weaponise low level green players and throw fodder at a red player to kill to compound the corruption stacks further so they can just swoop in for a bigger reward. Either the red player lets the greens kill them or they get fucked further when there corruption debuff is compounded and bounty hunter walks in and finishes them off. Bad system is bad there

IustinusShiva

Reds are red because they killed a green.
Greens should stay green if they avenge their kin.
Anything else opens up more abuse (purples waiting for greens to flag on red)

There is no world where it's good for the game for greens to have to flag to kill a corrupt player.

StrickenII

this middle ground is the problem. they give the illusion of being able to grind it off. but in reality there's no chance, because a horde of lvl 1's can toothpick you to death with no recourse. that's not good pvp. they may as well just say "you're flagged till you die, pick a good spot" and it rewards corruption baiting even more

StrickenII

and most corruption is from either baiting or taunting. loot ashes from me / my group in the middle of us, train mobs over the top of us, stand in the middle of us and flag / unflag, drop a horse on our mobs, etc etc.

Apok

yeah I agree, Corruption already kills your stats I don't see why you can't defend yourself without becoming more corrupted. If one person kills another player, that's an isolated situation between two people. Someone sticks their nose into others business with no repercussions is kinda lame.

ShivaFang

StrickenII wrote: »

this middle ground is the problem. they give the illusion of being able to grind it off. but in reality there's no chance, because a horde of lvl 1's can toothpick you to death with no recourse. that's not good pvp. they may as well just say "you're flagged till you die, pick a good spot" and it rewards corruption baiting even more

Grinding it off doesn't currently seem to be working, or it is way too intensive to do. everyone I know who has become corrupt (either intentionally or due to a bug) has had to get someone else to kill them to remove it.

ShivaFang

Apok wrote: »

yeah I agree, Corruption already kills your stats I don't see why you can't defend yourself without becoming more corrupted. If one person kills another player, that's an isolated situation between two people. Someone sticks their nose into others business with no repercussions is kinda lame.

'defending yourself' while red is like defending yourself from the cops when they try to arrest you for murder....
We'll see how the system changes when bounty hunters are added to the game though, because I'm not sure why you'd want to be a bounty hunter if you can just kill corrupted players while green.

Texas

Veeshan wrote: »

As it currently stands bounty hunter when they become a thing will activly weaponise low level green players and throw fodder at a red player to kill to compound the corruption stacks further so they can just swoop in for a bigger reward. Either the red player lets the greens kill them or they get fucked further when there corruption debuff is compounded and bounty hunter walks in and finishes them off. Bad system is bad there

There's no reason to Bounty Hunt at all with how the system is. Bounty Hunters actually flag against corruption while greens do not.

StrickenII

That's the thing, I'm leaning towards opt into bounty hunt to be mutual KoS with corrupt, or flag to fight as a better middle ground.

Gizban

StrickenII wrote: »

this middle ground is the problem. they give the illusion of being able to grind it off. but in reality there's no chance, because a horde of lvl 1's can toothpick you to death with no recourse. that's not good pvp. they may as well just say "you're flagged till you die, pick a good spot" and it rewards corruption baiting even more

That's funny. Advocating for protection for the red. They might get zerged, the horror!

StrickenII

if they want corruption to be a system instead of a death sentence, then they need to work on it. if they want corruption to be a death sentence, then they need to not bother with saying they can work it off. now, when looting of other bodies flags you, and you can't drop a horse in the middle of things, and if you hit me i can hit you back without you instantly dropping flag..... then it'll be a moot point, because at that point i'll never be corrupt again. but they need to decide if it's a death sentence or if there's a chance to pay a penance

CROW3

I think they need to correctly calibrate corruption before changing fundamental flagging rules. If it’s a major issue in beta, then adjust.

I’m still a fan of the rules as conceived. If a player chose to grief others enough to be corrupt, I’m ok with greens staying green when attacking / killing a red.

wakkytabbaky

as crow said the corruption system isnt balanced yet its merely super tuned to stop massive ganking in Phase 1

StrickenII

i'm definitely happy that it's tuned heavy on the corruption side instead of light, they just need to work on the flagging issues first. then, at that time, corrupt people will be people who willingly engaged in corrupt acts.

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