Game is too punishing.

Hello,
I could write tons of feedback but I would like to get across the most important point for me which is how harsh the game is.

For context I'm a solo player and don't intend on joining a team/guild

Personally, I'm a fan of how tough the game is but the material drop rate on death is way too punishing. I think its okay if I lose half of lets say 2 random out of 10 different materials in my possession but to lose 60% or w/e it is of EVERYTHING?? Additionally, anyone can just freely loot me, not to mention, In a few cases I had to travel 5mins just to get to the area I died. It should be significantly lowered, or make lootbags only accessible by the person who died if it was an NPC death.

Honest opinion I think in alpha we shouldn't drop anything on death due to the following reasons:

* its full of bugs, which can cause death.
* Poor performance overall currently, can result in death.
* No one wants to spend 2hrs farming mats just to die (especially due to the above) and have to start again in alpha.
* People will quit alpha testing if they keep getting punished so heavily before they reach higher levels which means less overall testing.

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Comments

Lughlaoch

I am someone who enjoys grouping but only when I want to. I always play a healer and most players act-a-fool (IN ALL GAMES) when they know there's a healer in a group...so while you're dying, I'm trying to tag the current mob so I get SOMETHING - and the current system focuses on damage. The only game I know that gives exp for healing active PVE combatants is WoW. It's been a while, but if I recall, I could also get HKs for heals in PVP. But, I digress...

Attacking and healing do not happen simultaneously, even if I git gud. So, if you're an asshat, or a group of douchebags, I'm out and not in the mood. Hence, SOLO play. OR, as an adult with other obligations - sometimes I cannot commit to a group at the moment, even though I was randomly invited countless times and truly enjoyed MOST of the people I pugged. But, if I solo play, it doesn't mean the game "is not for me." I realize these things are on me and I need to work with what I've got. However, I never had a problem with solo play in AoC.

I got to level 10 over the past 3 weekends , spent my time traveling between Lionhold and Halcyon mostly and died twice from level 1-10. Once from that effing giant sparkle flower and another by the skelly camping the bridge to Halcyon. If you're level 9, RUN from level 14+ (they'll be the REALLY RED ones-maybe even stars by their names.) AS A CLERIC solo play was just as expected-rewarding. I agree with the OP - no one wants to spend hours gathering only to die and lose their $hit to a game glitch. However, the point is - it's not a faceroll. ESO scales - AoC does not - and it's perfect. I loved running from leashed wolves on my ass, only to return 3 levels later and kill them all with glee. One needs to know their limits and pay attention to their surroundings. Many times I blindly ran into a Minotaur because I was watching Barrens...I mean Global chat.

in any case, it's a testing alpha 2 for server stability. Steven said, "You're testing a system, NOT playing a game." It's all going to get wiped. So, as a learning experience, the things that made me unhappy in this phase can be considered a dry run, only to NOT make the same mistakes in the future when the game is playable.

Big_Majkel

STOP! Punishment system is fine. You don't wanna to lose items? Don't die, think twice what you do. It's simple. Offcourse during alpha can happends, that we die by errors but this is alpha and we have to accept this. I accept wolf with 3 stars at tunnel near Oakenbane Keep (rest in peace all souls after unexpected close meeting, probably in final product he will spawn only behind a walls), and i dont travel there.

Futuere

Several of your issues area already being worked on. This phase is prioritizing stability, and that seems to be your top 2 complaints in your list. Just be patient, as for being a solo player, it is possible the game just isn't for you. Many many times it has been stated by them that this is a multiplayer game focused on group content. Solo content will exists but it may take you longer to get to the same level as people who do play in a group.

Perhaps give some constructive feedback for ideas on how you would like a solo experience to be. Give them something to work with other than you don't plan to play with other player. If you want this game to work for you, they need to know what players like yourself want so they can tailor the experience for solo players while balancing it with the group content.

Fippy

Kalnazzar wrote: »

Without a death penalty, players could abuse death as a quick way to fast-travel

TBH I left myself attuned to the Lionhold emberspring and absolutely used killing myself as a cheesy way to fast travel, 2% experience penalty be damned...

Elminister

This is a team based game. This game isn't going to try to pander to people who think they want to play an MMO, but don't understand that one of the words is multiplayer.

snowmannumbertwo

you need risk in PVE. the PVE drop is fine tbh. maybe add a 3 to 5 min lock out. also it seems they are testing looting a player makes you go purple. but i dont like that, because now lets say there is a large wipe at some grind spot. now there is 12 or so player lootables. but no one comes back , too far, pissed the died etc.. i can now not loot them with out becoming purple for like 30 minutes. this just adds clutter to the game.

Azzerhoden Razeri

Kalnazzar wrote: »

To be honest, I disagree with removing the PvE death penalty. Having a real risk factor adds excitement and stakes to the game. Without a death penalty, players could abuse death as a quick way to fast-travel, undermining both the challenge and the game’s intended mechanics. This kind of system would remove the need for players to improve their class skills or team up for tough content, and it would take away a lot of the strategy that makes PvE engaging.

This sums up my thoughts perfectly. The system is fine the way it is. In addition to joining a group/guild, you can also drop your stuff off in a local bank. This is what I do. I let glint/resources build up to a level where I start to feel a little uncomfortable, and I head to town. This is part of what defines a sandbox MMO, you have control over what you choose to do, with no clear cut decisions telling you what to do next.

Aszkalon

Palmax wrote: »

* People will quit alpha testing if they keep getting punished so heavily before they reach higher levels which means less overall testing.

Never give up.

Maybe the true Treasure was the Suffering we experienced along the way.

Veeshan

nanfoodle wrote: »

Personally I think you should drop items on PvP death. PvE you should not drop glint and crafting supplies.

I agree (half of that if you combatant) with the caviar that there bags with protection on them so like say an apprentice lumber bag might save 10 items in a stack from dropping and journeyman would be 20 saved from a stack (they do hold 80-100 in a stack so seems fair for gatherer to retain some via there specilised bags)

Should atleast be for PvP death keep 25% drop 50% delete 25%
if attack back you keep 50% drop 25% and delete 25%

25% is not worth the risk of corruption 99% of the time :P

Shoklen

Punishment for dying solo (pve) seems a little harsh but I'm going with it for the moment.

Dying and having (generally) a fairly long run back to my body is fine.
XP dept is fine.
Loosing a little glint is fine.

Having a dog-pile of bottom feeder-players jump my Ashes the instant I die and loot my body is a little over the top since it's'n addition to the above.

What would be nice is if there was an in-game log of everyone that looted your Ashes, and or killed you in PVP. Or at least you get a text message in the chat "X has looted your Ashes". Now that gives me a name to seek revenge...

Kalnazzar

Shoklen wrote: »

Punishment for dying solo (pve) seems a little harsh but I'm going with it for the moment.
Dying and having (generally) a fairly long run back to my body is fine.

XP dept is fine.

Loosing a little glint is fine.

Having a dog-pile of bottom feeder-players jump my Ashes the instant I die and loot my body is a little over the top since it's'n addition to the above.

What would be nice is if there was an in-game log of everyone that looted your Ashes, and or killed you in PVP. Or at least you get a text message in the chat "X has looted your Ashes". Now that gives me a name to seek revenge...

It is intended and now implemented to flag players that do this which now I just run back and see who is flagged and destroy the little **** that took my chit lmao. Guys there is a bug that needs fixed with the flag system can you guys please make it so it don’t flag our teammates grabbing our loot for us? I understand anyone being flagged but Guild/Party members getting flagged lmao although it’s funny watching my friend get destroyed by the guardsmen running for his life with my chit still hopefully it’s a bug…

Blackthornes

The concerns about material loss and the difficulty of Ashes of Creation are valid, but the current death penalties are a critical component of the game's design philosophy. They encourage risk assessment, strategic play, and player-driven interactions, which are at the heart of the Ashes of Creation experience.

Why Harsh Death Penalties Matter

Risk vs. Reward Gameplay
Harsh penalties make resource-gathering more meaningful. Every node farmed or rare material acquired carries weight, as there’s always a potential cost if you take risks without preparation. Reducing or removing the penalties during Alpha could result in an unrealistic portrayal of how the game will play at launch.

Encourages Group Play
While solo play is supported, Ashes of Creation thrives on the concept of community and cooperation. The high penalties for death incentivize grouping up for protection and forming alliances, which aligns with the game's MMO nature. A solo-friendly experience should not come at the cost of undermining these core principles.

Alpha Testing Is About Challenge and Discovery
Losing materials or facing setbacks during Alpha may feel frustrating, but it provides critical data for developers to refine systems. Adjusting penalties too heavily during Alpha could lead to unrealistic feedback loops, masking issues that may only arise under the intended level of difficulty.

It’s Meant to Be Tough
Intrepid has always marketed Ashes as a game where actions have consequences. Removing penalties entirely during Alpha could dilute the ethos of the game and provide a false impression of what the live game will demand from players.

Addressing the Specific Concerns

Bugs and Performance-Related Deaths
This is a valid concern and should be addressed as a separate issue. Reporting bugs and performance issues that lead to deaths is part of Alpha testing.

Travel Time to Death Locations
The extended travel times add weight to the game world and make exploration meaningful. Streamlining this too much would diminish the immersion and reduce the need for strategic planning when adventuring.

Alpha Attrition
While some testers may find the penalties off-putting, others embrace this challenge as part of the appeal. Testing under realistic conditions attracts those who are invested in providing actionable feedback, ensuring the development aligns with the intended player base.

A Closing Thought
Harsh death penalties in Ashes of Creation are frustrating by design, but they also define its appeal. While adjustments might be necessary during Alpha, especially in the face of bugs and performance issues, the spirit of risk and consequence should remain intact. Finding a balance that allows for meaningful testing without eroding the game’s intended challenge is key.

Savic Prosperity

i personally feel it should drop a larger % and delete less, the future mention of having bags that lock your stuff from being lootable with certain bags i think would help for pve deaths as well

but i think right now it just kinda punishes tanks more than anyone else

dirich

Death is a penalty in itself, both in pve and pvp, and really there's no need to add any other penalty to it.
I can understand that stealing each other's loot can be fun - since you always think of yourself as the winner of the exchange, or you might enjoy the adrenaline of the risk - but that's for pvp. So adding this as a pvp penalty can make sense and give the game a given style, but there's no point in adding it to a pve death. That's basically just deleting hours of farming from the economy for no one's advantage and no one's enjoyment - unless someone picks it up by chance. But, as I found out when I died in the land of nowhere, your body disappears after a given time.

Talking specifically on pve, and in the case in which the body (and loot) disappears if not looted in time by anybody, losing part of your stuff if you die doesn't make the game hard. Just more time consuming. Less respectufl of your time as a player. Less friendly for the one with less time availability. All for no gain at all (since nobody is enjoying the fruits of your work if the loot disappeared without it being picked up).
Now, if the body persists indefinitely, then it's a different matter.

This said, I find that "forced pvp" + "drop of stuff on death" is a troublesome choice for a game. Only hardcore people can afford to play such a game, since you need to group all the time, have a lot more time to invest than you'd need if even only one of those two options was implemented and, honestly, Ashes implements some choices that, while fun, were also staples of griefing in the games pre-wow, which makes the game even more unpalatable to the more causal players.
Of course it's fine to create a game like this, if the devs so desire, but you're limiting your success chances massively. There are a lot of things that I like about Ashes, so I'd rather see it a bit milder than initially intended, but very successful on the market.

CROW3

Blackthornes wrote: »

Harsh death penalties in Ashes of Creation are frustrating by design, but they also define its appeal. While adjustments might be necessary during Alpha, especially in the face of bugs and performance issues, the spirit of risk and consequence should remain intact. Finding a balance that allows for meaningful testing without eroding the game’s intended challenge is key.

Well said. btw - wasn't Blackthorne a villain from U VII?

Good to see another student of the old school.

Blackthornes

CROW3 wrote: »

Well said. btw - wasn't Blackthorne a villain from U VII?

Good to see another student of the old school.

Yes it was!

RedLeader1

Palmax wrote: »

Hello,
I could write tons of feedback but I would like to get across the most important point for me which is how harsh the game is.

For context I'm a solo player and don't intend on joining a team/guild

Personally, I'm a fan of how tough the game is but the material drop rate on death is way too punishing. I think its okay if I lose half of lets say 2 random out of 10 different materials in my possession but to lose 60% or w/e it is of EVERYTHING?? Additionally, anyone can just freely loot me, not to mention, In a few cases I had to travel 5mins just to get to the area I died. It should be significantly lowered, or make lootbags only accessible by the person who died if it was an NPC death.

Honest opinion I think in alpha we shouldn't drop anything on death due to the following reasons:

* its full of bugs, which can cause death.
* Poor performance overall currently, can result in death.
* No one wants to spend 2hrs farming mats just to die (especially due to the above) and have to start again in alpha.
* People will quit alpha testing if they keep getting punished so heavily before they reach higher levels which means less overall testing.

The solo game at the moment is punishing. Artisanship and gathering has to get a lot more efficient and rewarding. Currently the risk/reward balance is badly off. I think that will get better through phase2. I think once we get into phase 2, the group and PvP players are going to start to complain more. Progress in development isn't going to be even.

kadimir

Shoklen wrote: »

Punishment for dying solo (pve) seems a little harsh but I'm going with it for the moment.
Dying and having (generally) a fairly long run back to my body is fine.

XP dept is fine.

Loosing a little glint is fine.

Having a dog-pile of bottom feeder-players jump my Ashes the instant I die and loot my body is a little over the top since it's'n addition to the above.

Well a youtube video detailing ptr notes went up.

Good news, exp debt now also gives you damage and healing dampening.

So now when your tank dies for instance, they'll just be more likely to keep dying until the group disbands- back to leveling by auto attacking melee mobs with a bow, new meta let's gooooo

Because you know of all the players actually complaining that dying didn't suck enough? Now you die, lose a bunch of stuff. Lose the time and energy you spent grinding mobs, lose durability, have to run back, your ashes were looted AND you do less damage and receive less healing so have fun 'getting revenge' on the purple farming right by your corpse.

I'm hoping that abomination doesn't even make it to the alpha, but atleast it's not something they decided to try spicing up retail release with. I have some serious concerns for the individual coming up with those ideas though, like do you torture lizards and insects you find outside? What problem where you attempting to solve? Was anyone actually trying to die for a benefit???? Are you trying to make a game? Last time I was actively motivated to NOT play a game was when darkfall new dawn launch and that gave evaporated.

Alzeido

I feel like losing items on death is a very bad thing. i'm 100% fine with dropping items for others to take if they are there and see, but in the game you currently randomly come across lvl 21+ mobs at lvl 5 in the world, and get 1 shot. or even post lvl 10 you can't do anything about it. randomly getting hit by a mage and being 1shot, or having a bird or a wolf to agro you and chase your mount down and kill it then you and theres NOTHING you can do about it.

In the short term 25% of your items deleted is nothing but if you're grinding for hours, even with a group and amass a few stacks of glint, then die due to messup you can lose stacks of glint in 1 death, and if you're ina high level area where you died, specially as a low mobility class like a tank, its likley it'll cause a wipe, making your entire party die and lose huntreds of glint from 1 mistake. if someone doesnt heal you in time, you lose 25% of your items and they dont if they can get away. its way too punishing for a tank at least. it makes sense for this to be the case if corrupted but for 25% deleted on default is just terrible.

I get wanting to have immersion and encourage teamplay but it jsut doesnt work, maybe 50% items drop but no deleting? heck i'd prefer 100% of items dropping and being able to recover thaem than 10% outright deleted nomatter what you do.

Genuinely loving the game as it stands but this is my one critique that i sincerely home gets changed as it does ruin the game for so many people

(Inb4 PlAy WiTh OtHeRs / iTs In AlPhA / tHiS tEsTiNg PhAsE iS SeRvEr SStaBilLity)
Feedback is feedback, discussion is discussion. there's immersion and there's punishing players for dying for no reason.

Alzeido

i get that but it is a sandbox game with exploration being a big thing. tbh 90% of my issue is glint being something that can be dropped. if it was just crafting materials like logs i wouldnt have an issue since typically you only have a large number if you're farming that. and times when you diue and drop that are few and far between unless you're dumb. but farming for money you get glint, and farming glint requires mindnumbing tedium of low lvl mobs, or farming high levels, and risking death. and therefore dropping glint.

the current system encourages high levels to sit in low level areas and never branch out.

but once again i get its alpha, i get its testing the system not the game, i get itll get fixed eventually with balancing. but im stating strongly i disagree with item deletion ever being a punishment for uncorrupted death

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