Can we do something about Griefers ?

I'm on Shol server, this past two days have been an horrible experience. I'm looking to test Carphin Tower content, each time we go there there is one (1) player named Heiler from Standby Rubin guild that wants us to pay. We did not, he then proceeded to pull large packs of mobs onto us over and over again until we die. If we kill him we get corrupted, even if he dies from mobs, he's back within 2 minutes. He's at max level so doesn't care about exp debt.

I tried the day later, within 10 minutes he was here, apparently someone from our group was streaming. We moved to Gravespeak, he followed us all the way to grief us there as well.

I'm playing this game to test its content and provide feedback. I'm not interested in providing entertainment for some jobless loser. Want me to provide feedback about Carphin ? Well guess what every time I went there I got griefed.

I'm done playing until something is done.

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timjimtwo

bored power levelers....

TGPhoenix

Any hostile action - including mages or clerics putting you to sleep or incapping you for the benefit of denying resources should be considered as a corrupt behavior if youre doing it to players 5+ levels under you. The gear and level system in game create such a disparity between brackets that its really unfair to even attempt anything. Honestly just implement PVE and PVP worlds already.

CROW3

TGPhoenix wrote: »

Any hostile action - including mages or clerics putting you to sleep or incapping you for the benefit of denying resources should be considered as a corrupt behavior if youre doing it to players 5+ levels under you. The gear and level system in game create such a disparity between brackets that its really unfair to even attempt anything. Honestly just implement PVE and PVP worlds already.

Holy knee-jerk, Batman!

Noaani

So, while this is an issue now, it won't be with the live game (which is literally all that matters).

PHaRTnONu

Also have to remember the node system is supposed to raise and lower mob levels too. that system is not fully implimented.
Yes they are after the emblems, yes this is a HUGE oversight gate keeping endgame grafted gear on one POI mob that is not lootable by higher levels.
But here we are. Its not intended, mobs are supposed to be higher level the higher level the node is, When player stalls are entered in game people would also have a diffrent avenue to use beside this grief. There are many systems not in game yet that fixes these issues.
The answer isnt PVE server.
its not going to happen, the game is PVX, its not for everybody, and thats ok.

MrWeapons

Its on all servers... why farm mobs for glint and recourses when you can farm dead players corpses. right?

wakkytabbaky

melifa wrote: »

A simple process. Plumbing other people's graves must result in corruption. Each additional foreign grave increases the corruption

this is a bad way to fix a problem, they just need to fix aggro and leashing, mobs shouldnt be aggroing onto new targets after being pulled unless said new person actually hits them, yea when they train mobs you are usually aoeing but they should just make the person pull get a butt ton of threat.

they already grant a 5-10% dmg modifier to the loot rights on initial tag so just make that initial person pulling gain a bunch of threat relative to their hp . would solve random damage pulling mobs off the intended target

Lodrig

TGPhoenix wrote: »

Any hostile action - including mages or clerics putting you to sleep or incapping you for the benefit of denying resources should be considered as a corrupt behavior if youre doing it to players 5+ levels under you. The gear and level system in game create such a disparity between brackets that its really unfair to even attempt anything. Honestly just implement PVE and PVP worlds already.

Rather thoughtless reaction, the issue of training mobs onto people will still happen, and is indeed the PRIMARY means of griefing others in a PvE game. You would actually see more of this behavior on a PvE server.

Noaani

Lodrig wrote: »

the PRIMARY means of griefing others in a PvE game.

Indeed it is.

I'm surprised how few people seem to have worked out how to prevent this, or how to turn it around on the character trying to train mobs on to others.

rollox

Noaani wrote: »

I'm surprised how few people seem to have worked out how to prevent this, or how to turn it around on the character trying to train mobs on to others.

Players have tried. I was in a group that tried. The level and gear difference just makes it futile. My groups have broken up and left with serious XP debt.

It got so bad that you cannot even find a Highwayman group any longer. No level appropriate player who's gone through this experience just avoids grouping there now.

It may be hopeful that this is only happening because of the level 25 cap and the barebones crafting resources. But this is probably something that doesn't just go away. This level of griefing in early alpha only points to more significant and heinous crimes in the future.

Something has to be done about it.

Endowed

TGPhoenix wrote: »

Any hostile action - including mages or clerics putting you to sleep or incapping you for the benefit of denying resources should be considered as a corrupt behavior if youre doing it to players 5+ levels under you. The gear and level system in game create such a disparity between brackets that its really unfair to even attempt anything. Honestly just implement PVE and PVP worlds already.

Ruinous.

AstuWar

h8br33d wrote: »

The part that makes this very bad is, there is no chance at retaliation for the lower lvl players because of such high level gap.

As is expected.

What you could do instead:

1) Try and negotiate with them. On death, 25% of your mats are destroyed and 25% are dropped. This means these people will only get 25% of your mats, and you might not even drop what they are after, plus they risk destroying the ones that they do want. Agree to trade all of your mats that they are looking for in exchange for peace. If they think you will not give them the agreed quantity, agree not to loot any mobs and let them become freely lootable by anyone (if they see you looting, you will get a mob train). You are trying to level up right now after all, just write down their and their guilds' names and retaliate when you have the means for it.

2) Ask for help. Whisper any high level player you know. Call out for help in global chat. You will have lots of level 25 players thirsty for PvP in the area within seconds, myself included. Anyone who loots a player's corpse and flags will be as good as dead. This will evolve into fair, healthy PvP battles or force griefers to dissolve.

Mob trains have been a tool in all MMOs I've played. They are not going anywhere and I do believe there are legitimate uses for them (not this one, though). If you can't engage in direct combat, learn to use the tools you do have. Griefers learnt to use mob trains, now it's your turn.

Noaani

rollox wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm surprised how few people seem to have worked out how to prevent this, or how to turn it around on the character trying to train mobs on to others.

Players have tried. I was in a group that tried. The level and gear difference just makes it futile.

Based on this response, I have to assume your attempt was based around PvP.

As has been said, training mobs like this is commonplace in the early stages of most PvE MMORPG's where you can't attack the other players. This should make it obvious that the means to deal with this situation are not PvP based, meaning your gear and level simply aren't factors.

This is absolutely a player skill issue - if you can't work out how to avoid being trained, then you deserve to be trained.

rollox

I guess that settles it then. Only logical choice is to just run away.

Completely abandon your group and just run. Using those skills in stamina, sprinting.

It kind of sucks seeing the group wipe and the only thing in your capacity to do is just run.

h8br33d

AstuWar wrote: »

h8br33d wrote: »

The part that makes this very bad is, there is no chance at retaliation for the lower lvl players because of such high level gap.

Mob trains have been a tool in all MMOs I've played. They are not going anywhere and I do believe there are legitimate uses for them (not this one, though). If you can't engage in direct combat, learn to use the tools you do have. Griefers learnt to use mob trains, now it's your turn.

Ofc mob trains are in other mmo's ,but other mmo's arent dropping your loot as a result. The real issue is the higher level players using the mobs as tools to get your loot without any punishment i.e loophole the corruption system with trains of mobs, there isn't any risk for them its free easy loot. My main argument is to find a way to prevent higher level players griefing low levels without punishment. trains are gonna happen but they should'nt be a tool for high level players to take loot from low level players risk free

.....at least if they became corrupt for looting someone 10 levels below them they would have to think twice about it , if they could potentially lose gear themselves (becoming corrupt) this would make other high level players want to hunt these guys more also

simply flagging them for pvp isn't enough they just go off grid for 30 seconds and repeat the process once they unflag.

No player is going to kill someone 10 levels above them. Which is why it ends up making the game a race for who levels first so they can lord over lower level players. Some of us may tough it out and deal but others will simply quit the game me personally i would like to see the game flourish and not just for the (degen no lifer gamer) but for everyone.

Arya_Yeshe

the high level people arent doing anything wrong, they are using the AI as intended, it was intended to be dumb and this is mob training is a problem in an fantasy mmos. Yes, AoC ai will be as bad as in any other game, with their little nests and spawns being over farmed

as level 15s you guys should skip the farmy part of gathering and go do something else, go find friends who are 25s to kill the trolls and gang up on them, pve grieding exists but nothing is stopping you people from killing the trolls

why is this so hard? i mean, people gotta lean how to be players and stop demanding that the company plays the game for them

CROW3

MrWeapons wrote: »

Its on all servers... why farm mobs for glint and recourses when you can farm dead players corpses. right?

There's an arithmetic truth to this. If someone leaves a node with completely empty bags and the specific intent of 'gathering' by looting ow pvp fields, they will always have a net positive material gain no matter how many times they are killed as a purple.

AstuWar

h8br33d wrote: »

AstuWar wrote: »

h8br33d wrote: »

The part that makes this very bad is, there is no chance at retaliation for the lower lvl players because of such high level gap.

Mob trains have been a tool in all MMOs I've played. They are not going anywhere and I do believe there are legitimate uses for them (not this one, though). If you can't engage in direct combat, learn to use the tools you do have. Griefers learnt to use mob trains, now it's your turn.

Ofc mob trains are in other mmo's ,but other mmo's arent dropping your loot as a result. The real issue is the higher level players using the mobs as tools to get your loot without any punishment i.e loophole the corruption system with trains of mobs, there isn't any risk for them its free easy loot. My main argument is to find a way to prevent higher level players griefing low levels without punishment. trains are gonna happen but they should'nt be a tool for high level players to take loot from low level players risk free

.....at least if they became corrupt for looting someone 10 levels below them they would have to think twice about it , if they could potentially lose gear themselves (becoming corrupt) this would make other high level players want to hunt these guys more also simply flagging them for pvp isn't enough they just go off grid for 30 seconds and repeat the process once they unflag.

No player is going to kill someone 10 levels above them. Which is why it ends up making the game a race for who levels first so they can lord over lower level players. Some of us may tough it out and deal but others will simply quit the game me personally i would like to see the game flourish and not just for the (degen no lifer gamer) but for everyone.

I tried giving you solutions to your problem but you didn't quote me on that. I will assume you read them, so please do if you didn't, so that you know how to avoid the situation you found yourself in while grinding - I will still assist you in PvP should you need it.

As for your proposed anti-griefing measure, if you make anyone become corrupt for looting someone who is X levels under them, you won't get an anti-griefing mechanism - you will get a very easily exploitable griefing mechanism in three simple steps:
1) Have your low level friends or alts die somewhere where only high level players are supposed to be.
2) Wait for someone with an area-appropriate level to loot them and unexpectedly become corrupt.
3) Freely kill the corrupt player.

Edit: PS. You do drop your loot from dying to mob trains in other MMOs (or you used to, at least). See Lineage 2.

h8br33d

AstuWar wrote: »

h8br33d wrote: »

AstuWar wrote: »

h8br33d wrote: »

The part that makes this very bad is, there is no chance at retaliation for the lower lvl players because of such high level gap.

Mob trains have been a tool in all MMOs I've played. They are not going anywhere and I do believe there are legitimate uses for them (not this one, though). If you can't engage in direct combat, learn to use the tools you do have. Griefers learnt to use mob trains, now it's your turn.

Ofc mob trains are in other mmo's ,but other mmo's arent dropping your loot as a result. The real issue is the higher level players using the mobs as tools to get your loot without any punishment i.e loophole the corruption system with trains of mobs, there isn't any risk for them its free easy loot. My main argument is to find a way to prevent higher level players griefing low levels without punishment. trains are gonna happen but they should'nt be a tool for high level players to take loot from low level players risk free

.....at least if they became corrupt for looting someone 10 levels below them they would have to think twice about it , if they could potentially lose gear themselves (becoming corrupt) this would make other high level players want to hunt these guys more also simply flagging them for pvp isn't enough they just go off grid for 30 seconds and repeat the process once they unflag.

No player is going to kill someone 10 levels above them. Which is why it ends up making the game a race for who levels first so they can lord over lower level players. Some of us may tough it out and deal but others will simply quit the game me personally i would like to see the game flourish and not just for the (degen no lifer gamer) but for everyone.

I tried giving you solutions to your problem but you didn't quote me on that. I will assume you read them, so please do if you didn't, so that you know how to avoid the situation you found yourself in while grinding - I will still assist you in PvP should you need it.

As for your proposed anti-griefing measure, if you make anyone become corrupt for looting someone who is X levels under them, you won't get an anti-griefing mechanism - you will get a very easily exploitable griefing mechanism in three simple steps:
1) Have your low level friends or alts die somewhere where only high level players are supposed to be.
2) Wait for someone with an area-appropriate level to loot them and unexpectedly become corrupt.
3) Freely kill the corrupt player.

Edit: PS. You do drop your loot from dying to mob trains in other MMOs (or you used to, at least). See Lineage 2.

This would'nt be a problem at all if the loot pile gave said player a prompt that they would become corrupt if they proceed to accept the loot, problem solved

P.S Never played Lineage , but yeah we don't have to be them either as the goal is to make something better !

Ludullu

This could have a fairly simple solution, once Intrepid figure out their AI shit.

if the player that aggroed a mob is 5+lvls higher than the mob - the mob only uses single-target attacks
if that player tries to redirect the aggro - the effect fails
if that player disappears (i.e. logs off, goes stealth, etc), and the equal-lvl players do not attack the aggroed mob - the mob simply goes back to their initial location

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