The game is designed to be frustrating, not fun

Bored of playing A2 at level 17 because the core game design is intended to be punishing and frustrating, not fun. Want to PvP? You're going to lose XP and potentially even items with little to no reward. Want to grind? It's going to be slow as shit as you battle server lag and instability, and other players for the same few mobs. Die due to a lag spike or a weird game bug? Say goodbye to XP and your glint. After leveling for hours you'll maybe get one item drop in your name? Assuming you're at one of the few humanoid spots, anything else and you'll get nothing useful at all. If you want to go check one of the other spots, have fun spending 15 minutes slowly going there on a horse to spend 30 minutes trying to assemble a group only to realize the service worker is nonfunctional, the spots are overly contested, or there are griefers running around dragging mobs onto you. Then you can spend another 15 minutes walking back with -2% XP to show for your troubles. Want to go collect resources? Have fun running around blindly looking for resources that haven't already been claimed. Intrepid is designing an MMO where the "massively" in the name makes the game less fun, rather than more, and the game tries to make you miserable every second you're connected.

I'm sure people are going to say "it's just an alpha, it's not supposed to be a fun game yet!" but these are core game design decisions that paint the picture of the game Intrepid is making.

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nanfoodle

A1 there was a main story Quest that took you all over the map and pretty much leveled you to 20 something. It was long and apparently quite fun. It was tested to death in Alpha One. It was removed from Alpha 2 so that they could test other things. Alpha Testing isn't for everyone if this is how you feel. Stop testing and wait for the game to be released when everything is balanced. There's no need to get yourself upset or frustrated.

Brilogy

Nearly everything I complained about (few drops, drops only coming from humanoid monsters, highly contested spots, PvP being punishing with no reward, XP + mat loss on death, travel being extremely slow, resources being scarce) are all intentional decisions made by the developers and reflect their vision for the game. These decisions are just amplified by the state of an alpha test. I certainly could have kept my original post more focused and less emotional, but my points still stand. The game is intentionally frustrating and the dopamine rewards (like a new piece of gear, a fun PvP skirmish) are few and far between. I'm also not saying all of these need to change, but the amount of mechanics that make the game feel bad to play outweigh the mechanics that make it feel good to play right now.

Copperfield

i agree with this... if your not in the leveling curve you have a hard time to find groups to level up your shit

Currently its not solo friendly. i hope they fix that

Mahes

As I have said before in other similar posts, the server mash was a bad idea. There are way to many players competing for the good areas and even a lot of competition for the descent areas to XP. The game appears to heavily favor players who have 2+ hours of continuous play due to lack or porting. It can actually take 30 minutes just to build a group and get everybody to the spot. The problem now is, even if you build the group, all of the spots are already taken and it devolves around using training exploits or out DPSing a group to get a spot and then keep it.

Frustration does not a game make.

Taleof2Cities

Mahes wrote: »

As I have said before in other similar posts, the server mash was a bad idea. There are way to many players competing for the good areas and even a lot of competition for the descent areas to XP.

A key question for you, though:

Is Alpha 2 about you having an optimized XP grind experience … or is it about testing game systems and giving your feedback?

nanfoodle

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Mahes wrote: »

As I have said before in other similar posts, the server mash was a bad idea. There are way to many players competing for the good areas and even a lot of competition for the descent areas to XP.

A key question for you, though:

Is Alpha 2 about you having an optimized XP grind experience … or is it about testing game systems and giving your feedback?

That's the point. Some days A2 feels like a game, other days it does not. IS needs feedback on what's fun and what is not. Steven is clear he won't budge on the main vision but that not mean these things can be adjusted to have the best impact on the players. My guess the next 1-2 years of A2 will shape the game. Testers are here to help work that out. Sometimes the changes will be good, other times it will not and IS will need to course correct. What won't happen is this changing overnight. This process is not for everybody.

Taleof2Cities

nanfoodle wrote: »

That's the point. Some days A2 feels like a game, other days it does not. IS needs feedback on what's fun and what is not. Steven is clear he won't budge on the main vision but that not mean these things can be adjusted to have the best impact on the players.

Most players have enough self-awareness to know they signed up for A2 to test the game … not play the game.

Seeing how fast you can get to the level cap probably isn’t testing the game.

I doubt players grinding levels are even giving any feedback.

Could the grind length be adjusted? Sure.

Is it a high priority for Phase 2? Definitely not.

unknownsystemerror

Azherae

Brilogy wrote: »

Bored of playing A2 at level 17 because the core game design is intended to be punishing and frustrating, not fun. Want to PvP? You're going to lose XP and potentially even items with little to no reward. Want to grind? It's going to be slow as shit as you battle server lag and instability, and other players for the same few mobs. Die due to a lag spike or a weird game bug? Say goodbye to XP and your glint. After leveling for hours you'll maybe get one item drop in your name? Assuming you're at one of the few humanoid spots, anything else and you'll get nothing useful at all. If you want to go check one of the other spots, have fun spending 15 minutes slowly going there on a horse to spend 30 minutes trying to assemble a group only to realize the service worker is nonfunctional, the spots are overly contested, or there are griefers running around dragging mobs onto you. Then you can spend another 15 minutes walking back with -2% XP to show for your troubles. Want to go collect resources? Have fun running around blindly looking for resources that haven't already been claimed. Intrepid is designing an MMO where the "massively" in the name makes the game less fun, rather than more, and the game tries to make you miserable every second you're connected.

I'm sure people are going to say "it's just an alpha, it's not supposed to be a fun game yet!" but these are core game design decisions that paint the picture of the game Intrepid is making.

There are very few games that are fun to one demographic without being frustrating to another.

So, even though most of your critiques are about 'problems with the bugginess of an Alpha which are then amplifying the issues with the design', I'll go ahead and accept that you don't like the design.

However for those that do, the bugs are, at worst, in the way of the enjoyment of the design, and that incentivizes us to report them as such.

Do I want to PvP for the hell of it whenever? No, therefore I don't have problems with xp or item loss related to that.

Do I want to grind for something? Yes, but I don't see how server lag has anything to do with design.

XP and glint gone because of bug? Obviously?

If you wanna be helpful, and are somehow constantly racking up exp debt, I have a thing for you to check actually since I gotta try to reproduce one that may or may not be an actual bug.

Get really close to leveling, I mean like, 1 mob away, then go PvP a ton so you have lots of exp debt, then go kill the last mob and see if you level and it wipes all your exp debt.

Helpful and fun!

nanfoodle

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

I think there is allot of people that have no clue what it means to Alpha test. Market flooding with early access games. Many thinking that's what they getting here.

CROW3

nanfoodle wrote: »

I think there is allot of people that have no clue what it means to Alpha test. Market flooding with early access games. Many thinking that's what they getting here.

Yes. However, it's clear there are very specific changes that could blunt the impact of bad faith testers that are actively decreasing the will for good faith testers to test. Here are three: mob leashing, node war declarations, and server pop size.

Couple this with a lack of public punishment for player-testers that clearly violate the rules, you then have a perception problem as tacitly condoning the behavior you need to deter; meaning folks that want to make Ashes great spending their time elsewhere.

nanfoodle

CROW3 wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

I think there is allot of people that have no clue what it means to Alpha test. Market flooding with early access games. Many thinking that's what they getting here.

Yes. However, it's clear there are very specific changes that could blunt the impact of bad faith testers that are actively decreasing the will for good faith testers to test. Here are three: mob leashing, node war declarations, and server pop size.

Couple this with a lack of public punishment for player-testers that clearly violate the rules, you then have a perception problem as tacitly condoning the behavior you need to deter; meaning folks that want to make Ashes great spending their time elsewhere.

I get that feedback can be given. I'm not happy with the things you listed as well. I was mostly responding to the OP when he said

"I'm sure people are going to say "it's just an alpha, it's not supposed to be a fun game yet!" but these are core game design decisions that paint the picture of the game Intrepid is making."

It is an alpha and alpha often not always about enjoying the game. I have given my feedback but I have a perspective of what we're doing here. We're only partly here to play a game we're mostly here to test and get this game in a direction that we will enjoy and will also make Steven money

odishy

Almost all the issues come from the server mash. Over population leads to server issues, toxic behavior, frustration over scarcity (both mobs and resources). This is all amplified by sweat lords and exploits.

Layered on top of that is players with a ton of free time (holiday vacation) and intrepid on vacation. Leaving just Steven to try and manage the mess. Lack of communication about what comes next only amplifies all of this...

The current state is terrible and for many this was the first impression. Sure it's alpha but at the end of the day, it's still the first impression. A lot of folks are sitting home regretting dropping $110 on what looks like a game that won't survive 2025.

phalron

Why do people do things they hate? Go do something that brings you joy. Everything does not have to be for everyone.

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