Toxic Griefing PVE Behaviour is encouraged ??

I want a good PVP MMO, where PVE is also a fun activity.
But right now at level 10-15, I try to enjoy the PVE of HH area. "Highway" something.

Here it is COMMON behaviour to see:
A - Toxic players pull a 3-star Pyromancer into other groups that are already fighting a pull.
It often results in the other group dying, or having to run for their lives. - And then the toxic players steal their corpse-loot.
They do it to either just steal corpse-loot, or to GRIEF your group, because their group want the spot.

B - Toxic groups place themselves in the middle of your group, and steal all the mobs you pull.
If another group can outdamage your group, they get the kill, and the xp and loot. I see this as direct griefing.

C - And in general you see a lot of Toxic behaviour. If you die there, someone always steal your corpse-loot.
Often right in front of you, if you dont release, but wait for a rez.

I totally understand, that this is a PVP game, and I have the option to either run away, and try to PVE somewhere else, or stand and fight for my spot - getting PVP flagged.
But there is 1 thing, that makes this entire scene more toxic than it has to be. The griefing happens for mainly 1 reason.
WHY DO WE DROP A CORPSE THAT CAN BE LOOTED?... Remove that feature of STEALING = GRIEFING, and you fix the biggest TOXIC and Griefing part of the game... - I am fine with flagging for PVP and going at each other.. - But tons of players GRIEF - and it feels like a grief when they steal from your dead body..

Also XP and reward for a kill needs to be fixed ASAP..
1 - Let the puller that fires the first shot (claiming the target) have agro the first 10-20 seconds.
In this period all other agro is negated. All other damage, still helps the kill.
2 - Let the winner of kill and loot be the one/group that has most agro TIME at the end. Not agro amount.
If it is agro time that wins, then small pulls are guaranteed for the player tagging their mob. And in larger pulls, sure other players can get agro after 10-20 seconds, but the puller has a big advantage to claim their target.

This will result in a change in the griefing and kill stealing..
A - Groups at HH and other spots, can more easy keep the mobs they pull.
B - Solo players who try to gried by pulling a hard 3* mob into another group, he will still have agro, and most likely die.
And while the group will still get agro, they have 20 sec. where the agro is not on them, but they can get ready to kill and get the reward.
C - Nice players who want to help a person with a bad pull, can do it without being kill stealers.
D - Groups that out damage other groups and kill steals - they have a 20 second disadvantage, where their agro dont count. They can only steal if they are a lot stronger than the other group.

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blktauna

Noaani wrote: »

Agripinensia wrote: »

Intrepid, either state that mob training is OK - it is in no other MMO I know

It is perfectly fine in both EQ games.
It was actively encouraged in Archeage.
It is fine in Rift.
It was fine in Age of Conan.
It was fine in BDO.

In fact, it is fine in most MMORPG's I've ever played.

It's just games with whiners like WoW (and currently Ashes) that developers say it isn't OK.

Learn the game mechanics, learn what is causing it, and then you can avoid it.

Or, you know, just whine.

Way to let people know you train mobs

Drazard

for A, its annoyig. you have to be careful.

for B,C,D,E,F and G (al current and future arguments) theres a button that will let you attack other players. try it.

1. if you flag up and get killed, you need to get good.
2. if you flag up and kill them, problem solved.
3. if you flag up and are out numbered, you messed up and see: (1)
4. if you dont flag up dont complain.

blktauna

So you suggest that when a lvl13 trains over my lvl 7 I should flag up?
No, let them get purple for looting me.
Why do you think this sort of behaviour is acceptable?

onewingedangelo1

blktauna wrote: »

So you suggest that when a lvl13 trains over my lvl 7 I should flag up?
No, let them get purple for looting me.
Why do you think this sort of behaviour is acceptable?

If you are there with a group... a group of 7s can very easily kill 1 lvl 13. It's a pvp game... if you are actively choosing to not engage in it... don't complain when people do what they are supposed to to bully you out of their spot. And before you react... the spot is owned by those who can control the space. If you can't and lose your spot, it was never your spot to begin with..... this is a pvp game.

Gizban

Noaani wrote: »

Agripinensia wrote: »

Intrepid, either state that mob training is OK - it is in no other MMO I know

It is perfectly fine in both EQ games.
It was actively encouraged in Archeage.
It is fine in Rift.
It was fine in Age of Conan.
It was fine in BDO.

In fact, it is fine in most MMORPG's I've ever played.

It's just games with whiners like WoW (and currently Ashes) that developers say it isn't OK.

Learn the game mechanics, learn what is causing it, and then you can avoid it.

Or, you know, just whine.

You are coming off as pretty ignorant as far as Steven's stance on the issue.

Steven has stated just yesterday that there is a problem with mob agro and it is being fixed so that only party members of the one who caught initial agro can build agro for that mob.

Training has always been an asshat move. AoC isn't catering to asshats.

Gizban

Noaani wrote: »

Also, this is not a game, it is a test. You essentially can't exploit during a test.

Wrong.

Steven said just yesterday 'hammers are coming' for exploiters once the team gets back on Monday the 6th.

Enjoy your delvl/delete/ban.

Gizban

@Noaani yeah... so don't whine if you lose your acct, mmkay?

Its_Me

Noaani wrote: »

Also, this is not a game, it is a test. You essentially can't exploit during a test.

Odd stance since Steven has repeatedly warned players not to exploit during test and has literally deleted characters of those that have been caught exploiting.

I cannot even award this points for a troll. 🤣

blktauna

onewingedangelo1 wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

So you suggest that when a lvl13 trains over my lvl 7 I should flag up?
No, let them get purple for looting me.
Why do you think this sort of behaviour is acceptable?

If you are there with a group... a group of 7s can very easily kill 1 lvl 13. It's a pvp game... if you are actively choosing to not engage in it... don't complain when people do what they are supposed to to bully you out of their spot. And before you react... the spot is owned by those who can control the space. If you can't and lose your spot, it was never your spot to begin with..... this is a pvp game.

I was there with 3 others. There was a 13 on me and others came in. The joke is we were on the road, not even on a rss. Toxic behaviour right there.

Its_Me

blktauna wrote: »

onewingedangelo1 wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

So you suggest that when a lvl13 trains over my lvl 7 I should flag up?
No, let them get purple for looting me.
Why do you think this sort of behaviour is acceptable?

If you are there with a group... a group of 7s can very easily kill 1 lvl 13. It's a pvp game... if you are actively choosing to not engage in it... don't complain when people do what they are supposed to to bully you out of their spot. And before you react... the spot is owned by those who can control the space. If you can't and lose your spot, it was never your spot to begin with..... this is a pvp game.

I was there with 3 others. There was a 13 on me and others came in. The joke is we were on the road, not even on a rss. Toxic behaviour right there.

Steven has already stated that there will be changes to the system to prevent the training of mobs on to other players.

Now, even with the changes, I believe that if another player runs a mob over you as you are AOEing another NPC and you hit the mob drawing the aggro, you may not be safe. I believe the upcoming changes will be that if mobs are untouched, they will leash back to where they came from once the attempted griefer is out of range rather than resetting on players nearby that did not engage or hit the mob. Just a guess of course but Steven is putting something in place in an attempt to decrease the death of players due to intentional mob training.

blktauna

Slapping lowbies with mobs so you dont go corrupt is toxic. If they don't fix it you will only be keeping the people who came on with guilds day one. No one will want to buy into this sort of nonsense.

Noaani

Its_Me wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Also, this is not a game, it is a test. You essentially can't exploit during a test.

Odd stance since Steven has repeatedly warned players not to exploit during test and has literally deleted characters of those that have been caught exploiting.

I cannot even award this points for a troll. 🤣

The only part of this that is odd is calling it an exploit.

In order to be an exploit, there needs to be a gain of some sort - by actual definition.

Since the servers are being wiped, there is no gain to be made, thus by actual definition you can't exploit.

Noaani

Gizban wrote: »

Enjoy your delvl/delete/ban.

Gizban wrote: »

Noaani yeah... so don't whine if you lose your acct, mmkay?

Unsure why you thought the need to state the same thing in two different posts.

I won't be getting banned, or talked to, or deleveled, or deleted.

What I do find funny though is a bunch of so called PvP players all whining about not being able to handle a PvE situation that PvE players have been handling for decades.

Bunch of fucking whiners.

it proves a point that was discussed many years ago, and often since, PvP MMORPG players are - generally speaking - easily the softest gamers of any genre. Bejeweled players are tougher than most PvP MMORPG players. Stardew Valley players are tougher than most of the people currently testing Ashes.

Its_Me

Noaani wrote: »

Its_Me wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Also, this is not a game, it is a test. You essentially can't exploit during a test.

Odd stance since Steven has repeatedly warned players not to exploit during test and has literally deleted characters of those that have been caught exploiting.

I cannot even award this points for a troll. 🤣

The only part of this that is odd is calling it an exploit.

In order to be an exploit, there needs to be a gain of some sort - by actual definition.

Since the servers are being wiped, there is no gain to be made, thus by actual definition you can't exploit.

If there were no gains, guilds would not be taking the time and effort to sit around for days exploiting.

You seem very confused. Your suggestion that there cannot be exploiting in test because servers will eventually be wiped is like suggesting that because a store is going out of business and having a sale, it is okay to go in and shoplift all you can because after all, they are closing so it really isn't shoplifting.

Even though the definition of exploit varies, the common core of this term centers around someone using a bug or mechanic other than how it was intended for an unfair advantage over others. Just because it is an alpha test does not mean that there are not advantages and disadvantages to actions in the game. 🤣

The fact that you refuse to see that players who exploit for monetary gain like gold and materials and intangible gains like xp that allow them to quickly out-level, out-gear and out-purchase (freeholds, faster mounts ect) gives them an advantage over every other player testing that refuses to take advantage of that same bug is not an exploit has to be a troll.

Regardless of the servers being wiped, exploits are still exploits and Steven (whose opinion is the one that counts) has clearly stated as much, has warned players not to use them, and has deleted characters that have used them.

I get that you want to hit that 16k post goal but come on bud, do it with posts that are productive and make sense as this is just plain silly. 🤣

blktauna

Let's hope Steven holds to his word and soon because I'm seeing the same nonsense continuing unhindered as we speak.

Noaani

Its_Me wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Its_Me wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Also, this is not a game, it is a test. You essentially can't exploit during a test.

Odd stance since Steven has repeatedly warned players not to exploit during test and has literally deleted characters of those that have been caught exploiting.

I cannot even award this points for a troll. 🤣

The only part of this that is odd is calling it an exploit.

In order to be an exploit, there needs to be a gain of some sort - by actual definition.

Since the servers are being wiped, there is no gain to be made, thus by actual definition you can't exploit.

If there were no gains, guilds would not be taking the time and effort to sit around for days exploiting.

There are no gains because nothing from this test carries over.

You can try and rationalize it all you want, but as long as nothing carries over, you are trying to rationalize your pre-existing opinion rather than looking at the facts.

Noaani

blktauna wrote: »

Let's hope Steven holds to his word and soon because I'm seeing the same nonsense continuing unhindered as we speak.

Learn how to deal with it.

I don't consider it an issue at all - not because I do it, but because I know how to prevent it.

From my perspective, this whole thing is a matter of a few skill-less players losing, and then going off complaining to Intrepid to "fix" the game so they can stop losing.

PvP whining at its absolute finest.

Azherae

The latest data from Steven actually strongly implies that pulling mobs onto other players will not be considered an offence in the game after the problem that is currently making it too easy is resolved.

I took this to mean that when the bug/unintended behaviours are fixed and it starts to work like other games, those with the skills to still do it, will not be punished for doing it, and the expectation will be that the targets/victims will develop the skills to prevent or deal with it.

So for now, the answer is patience, but it also could mean that if you still get trained on after the fix, it will be considered a skill issue on your end as a player and no action will be taken against the person doing it.

blktauna

Noaani wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

Let's hope Steven holds to his word and soon because I'm seeing the same nonsense continuing unhindered as we speak.

Learn how to deal with it.

I don't consider it an issue at all - not because I do it, but because I know how to prevent it.

From my perspective, this whole thing is a matter of a few skill-less players losing, and then going off complaining to Intrepid to "fix" the game so they can stop losing.

PvP whining at its absolute finest.

You are the very sort of player that will ruin the game for everyone else.
I'm not even at a level where its feasible to pvp.

Noaani

blktauna wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

Let's hope Steven holds to his word and soon because I'm seeing the same nonsense continuing unhindered as we speak.

Learn how to deal with it.

I don't consider it an issue at all - not because I do it, but because I know how to prevent it.

From my perspective, this whole thing is a matter of a few skill-less players losing, and then going off complaining to Intrepid to "fix" the game so they can stop losing.

PvP whining at its absolute finest.

You are the very sort of player that will ruin the game for everyone else.
I'm not even at a level where its feasible to pvp.

You seem to think I am in doing this.

I am not, I am avoiding it, and turning it back on (some of) the people doing this.

If you have people training mobs on to you often, it is because they know you have no idea how to defend against it. You are an easy target.

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