Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
[FEEDBACK] Guild Leveling System Needs Tuning ASAP
FEDChurch
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two
Hey there, testers and devs!
I know the current implementation of the guild leveling system is intended... but can we revisit this and adjust at all? I don't think the system is getting tested like you would want it to.
Here is some input and testing from a larger, fairly coordinated organization:
Testing: We tested the experience gains from cross-map runs with guild commodities. We ran caravans from Winstead to Azmaran (one of the longer routes currently) to see the viability of the current iteration of the guild leveling systems.
Data: Attached is a screen shot of what the guild exp bar looks like after 6 commodities (the equivalent of 35 gold glint) are carried from Winstead to Azmaran (about 75k guild exp per commodity). That same amount of glint on the same run would net you 500g if you ran the caravan commodities instead of guild commodities.
We did the math for a full exp bar (one full level for a guild): It would take 77 runs of this type (49 of the longest route) to fill the bar (a bare-minimum opportunity cost of over 4000g in caravan profits).
Outcome: Either the guild commodities need to be MUCH cheaper (in glint cost), or the amount of experience per level needs to be MUCH lower. The vast majority of guilds are ignoring the mechanic because of the mammoth amount of exp needed for even the first level. If large orgs are steering clear, you can guarantee that smaller guilds have no chance to complete even one level in an acceptable timeframe.
Thanks a ton for listening!!
PS- Any input from fellow testers would be wonderful.
I know the current implementation of the guild leveling system is intended... but can we revisit this and adjust at all? I don't think the system is getting tested like you would want it to.
Here is some input and testing from a larger, fairly coordinated organization:
Testing: We tested the experience gains from cross-map runs with guild commodities. We ran caravans from Winstead to Azmaran (one of the longer routes currently) to see the viability of the current iteration of the guild leveling systems.
Data: Attached is a screen shot of what the guild exp bar looks like after 6 commodities (the equivalent of 35 gold glint) are carried from Winstead to Azmaran (about 75k guild exp per commodity). That same amount of glint on the same run would net you 500g if you ran the caravan commodities instead of guild commodities.
We did the math for a full exp bar (one full level for a guild): It would take 77 runs of this type (49 of the longest route) to fill the bar (a bare-minimum opportunity cost of over 4000g in caravan profits).
Outcome: Either the guild commodities need to be MUCH cheaper (in glint cost), or the amount of experience per level needs to be MUCH lower. The vast majority of guilds are ignoring the mechanic because of the mammoth amount of exp needed for even the first level. If large orgs are steering clear, you can guarantee that smaller guilds have no chance to complete even one level in an acceptable timeframe.
Thanks a ton for listening!!
PS- Any input from fellow testers would be wonderful.
38
Comments
Make caravans be the BEST way, but let's not make it the ONLY way. (No the 100xp for 1 blue glint doesnt count :P)
Now if we could run caravans for gold, then buy guild commodities with gold, that would be a much better play loop imo.
Yea it's just super over-tuned in my opinion. Maybe they are balancing around perceived level 50 glint drop rates, but we can't really test the system in the current environment.
Fully agree. Good points.
RIGHT?! Not to mention, the system is implemented and is not getting tested really.
This progression should come from natural ways such as
Guild Quests
Guild Commisions
Guild Requisitions
Guild Wars
World Bosses as a Guild
Dungeons / Raids as a Guild Group,
These are all way better options and natural progressions than the current system
There is also a issue of the rolls of amount of glint is ALSO insane to me. I have spent LITERAL hours with out glint dropping. IN CARPHIN the round robin/ 0 to 9 Bright glint is INSANE TO ME (data-mined) those number need to be brought up DRASTICALLY a Zero floor happens SO FREQUENTLY for me i quit playing for the day. HOURS with nothing to show for it is INSANE behavior for what is the BASE commodity of the game. (i lose gold grinding some days cause i have to repair and no way to make gold, cause i have ZERO GLINT cause of these rolls/round robin systems you have in place for glint!)
I have been temped to record my game play for hours to HIGHLIGHT this insanity but why? would you change it? probably not.
Intrepid removes glint farms from PVP zones, says nothing. WHY? those brought content, they were in zones that are PVP ENABLED, people went there knowing the risk. PVP zone SHOULD BE HIGH GLINT DROPS thats the reward side of the risk, and it forces interactions of players. WHY is Intrepid constricting content, and choices? I got involved with this vision because we were promoted that this wouldnt be a theme park full of gaurd rails. But every time i turn around We are being restricted in choices of how to accomplished these goals of the game. WHY? Why are devs removing choice and not adding more options ?
Ok you added a glint sink, but you removed glint faucets, you also have HORRIBLE RNG ranges for glint in POI's for partys. Something is wrong there. If you add a sink you ADD more faucets, cause as it sits now, I dont want to spend a WHOLE DAY to make enough to run 1 commodity, and have no profit for myself (cant repair, didnt farm resources to make better gear) Do you see how much of a waste is going on here?
FIX YOUR RNG FOR GLINT in existing areas, add mobs of high glint to PVP zones to Encourage players to contest these area's and force interactions. PVP zone SHOULD BE REWARDING, whats the reason to go to any of them?? There is nothing of value in any of them, other then caravans. You wasted a whole zone, the content and mobs in them for ...... JUST CARAVANS......
Increase the multiplicitives of the guild commoditys travel distances (cause we only have a small world we cant travel 20+ nodes away guys how can we see the balance of the guild systems you envision if we dont have the world its ment to be in)
FIX the range of glint drop to remove the ZERO aspect to keep pace w mob level (i made more glint on a new char then on my 25 in a hour.... thats insanity)
Fix the glint drops in PVP zones.
Every one is telling you the glint to reward for those guild commodity is not realistic. (and you want these guild levels to help small guilds fight zergs? LMAO how!?)
Im not trying to mean or rude to the dev's I REALLY enjoy the game as a whole & its vision/premise, But these small issue are very very frustrating and now is the time for testing (but we cant cause no one is considering cost in relation to the current world/balances) so please dont think i hate the game/dev's its more that im passionate and not great softening criticisms i have.
I agree, just like commission boards etc.
They've tanked the entire game at this point. Between gold dupe scandals last week and now this garbage patch this week.. server population has dropped SO much that there's no tanks or healers to even form groups anymore.. and even when you CAN get a group.. there's NO glint dropping. I spent 10 hours in Carph and left with 4 blue glint.
So apparently I get to run my caravan (1 gold 3 blue) about once every other week now.. and now I have to also face pressure from my guild about these garbage guild commodities on top of it? Then I have to pay almost 300 in "taxes" EVERY WEEK.. with no glint dropping anywhere to pay for any of it. Who TF thought this was such a great idea?!
NEVERMIND the fact most guilds are at least 100+ people, requiring multiple guilds just to fit them all... requiring now even MORE resources.. as the fights break out over which of the guilds should be getting the "Guild buffs first." .. while everyone else sits out in the cold.
I cant even IMAGINE a small guild of like 20 friends trying to attempt this trash tier system.
Phartonu is 110% spot on.. you've literally made the game an unenjoyable slog of misery at this point.
You need to stop.
No.. Im not being sarcastic. STOP.
If these systems went live today.. and you told me I had to pay money for this.. I'd go back to EverQuest before I'd pay for this.
PS - Having community managers go "oh put it in a weekly feedback post" along with 6 billion other posts to get lost in a giant pile never to be addressed... isnt going to work for this. We're posting everywhere we can, and until we hear an official response on this.. people are going to KEEP posting on this. This is ass. Your own player counts should be raising alarms, if they arent already. We arent "bored". We're completely stuck with no way forward.
Fixing the glint issues, making the PVP zones actually viable and FUN to be in, and addressing this dogwater guild leveling system need to be the ONLY priorities you're "addressing" at this time.
Right now it takes 1 guild commodity per guildie per level, It is not that big of a deal. The main issue stems from glint being used to buy that guild commodity. You put at odds personal and guild progression, when you use glint to both get gold and progress your character and get guild commodities and progress your guild.
My solution would be to introduce a different type of resource to substitute glint in the commodity sale. This resource could drop the same as Glint, but also from other objectives like world, raid, dungeon bosses, guild quests and commissions, and other guild-related activities. Along with this, you should allow guilds to pool this resource together to buy commodities and run caravans, differently from glint in which you can only do your own caravan.
Additionally, I think a zero-sum reward system for guild wars would be interesting, allowing winning guilds to steal other guilds' experience points to level.
I agree - I'm working on gear, pvping, doing my own income and leveling up professions. With the glint drought and this massive sink I have to stop all of the rest to prog my guild, vs work on myself and I don't like that choice. You should never have to fully stop one thing to work on another
I agree with your whole post however this opening really stuck with me. I totally agree. Glint not being available, even if you secure any of the decent spots left, it just doesn’t yield much. Which means what little we have is now a personal choice of self-investment or guild-investment. What’s more, people aren’t making enough in a week for either of those choices to be viable anymore.
To release content and then put insurmountable barriers (barriers = glint reduction, higher level mob generation being reduced map-wide especially in PvP zones) in the way does not feel good. It feels like “why bother”? The hill is too steep. Whether this was purposefully constructed as a means of friction e.g. people fighting over limited glint spots, people choosing themselves over guild progression and thereby causing in-fighting, etc… well, we’re not fighting each other;
we’re just fighting to be heard.
Under normal circumstances I would entirely agree with this sentiment. However, as testers in the current alpha environment, none of this guild-building is actually attainable. In fact, only massive zergs have any chance at all within the current system. That feels unfair.
Making guilds super easy to build would also just further help zergs. Nobody wants that. What we want is a reasonable way specifically within the confines of this alpha to actually test what they’d like us to. It’s their job to meet those metrics, if and when possible.
Until guild exp is more reasonable in this current test environment, we are discouraged from testing it and will focus on other content. Devs deserve to understand why the content they gave us to test is going untouched.
My take: I truly like the fact leveling the guild will take effort to accomplish. However in it's current state, this is not something worth the time or effort into doing. IMO the cost of the crate needs to be a commodity the guild can actually store in the current state that would be gold. You can already buy the turn ins with gold, why not buy the crate to run with gold as well? To get gold, you have to trade in the economy, or run caravans. This means you would have to run a caravan for gold, and then use that gold to purchase crates to run another caravan for guild exp.
The other option is to reduce the cost of the crate to somewhere around 2 gold glint. That's still more expensive than the cost to fill most caravans. It would also make it intentional to level the guild but not feel over punishing.
Another option: is to give the guild a pretty good or long lasting buff per each turn in of a crate to balance out the glint cost.
Ideally we would have multiple options to level the guild. Not just running exp tokens through a caravan. If we have other options to level the guild, my guess is that people would choose that route over the glint cost per crate for exp tokens. It would still be way too expensive.
I know the right decision will be made whatever you all decide to do. Can't wait to see how this all will turn out!
Almost every comment here said that zerg guilds will be the ones doing this, right? In other words, zerg guilds would be spending insane amount of money on relatively miniscule boosts to their power, while others can spend that money on their own progression.
If anything, I'd say that the zerg branch of the skill tree should have a bigger increase in XP requirements per lvl, otherwise it would once again be a snowball of "get more people into the guild, now you can run more caravans, now you get xp faster than those who don't have as many people".
What you are missing is that those zerg guilds would be even further ahead because of the skillpoints.
And, as I said, I think that the zerg branch should be even harder to lvl deeper in, so they'd be spending even more. And even if this leveling is done after they've reached a certain lvl of power progress, this huge wall of a money sink would simply let others catch up in the meantime.
On a realistic note, we we not be doing these ever as its easier to just have extra guilds then deal with the amount of sheer glint needed for these runs.
Blown past falling sands…