[FEEDBACK] Guild Leveling System Needs Tuning ASAP

nazgull2k1 · February 4

Ludullu wrote: »

FEDChurch wrote: »

What you are missing is that those zerg guilds would be even further ahead because of the skillpoints.

How much further when compared to what they could've gotten with the gold itself? If I understood the OP correctly, 1 lvl would require ~4k gold, right? How much shit can you buy with 4k gold even in the current incomplete economy?

And, as I said, I think that the zerg branch should be even harder to lvl deeper in, so they'd be spending even more. And even if this leveling is done after they've reached a certain lvl of power progress, this huge wall of a money sink would simply let others catch up in the meantime.

Yeah... you're literally missing the *entire* point of the problem dude.

If the BIG HUGE ZERG guilds cant do it.. how the heck are the smaller guilds supposed to do any of it? You say "Oh they can spend the 4k gold on gear!"

.... Ive spent maybe .. MAYBE.. 20 gold on enchants/gear. (130 INT, 335 Spell Power Mage btw) Level 20 gear is currently garbage tier, as level 10 gear far outshines it once enchanted. Level 10 gear is dirt cheap.. only a few "uber" drops prevent going Super Saiyan at 400+ spellpower.. which can easily be farmed up.

4,000 gold could equip/enchant.. jfc.. the entirety of Absolute Pirates.

Or it can get 1 guild, 1 level of 1 skill in 1 talent tree.

Whats the small guild of 20 people gonna do with the extra 3600 gold? Throw it at people in PVP? Cause this aint Octopath Traveler bro. Money cant be used as a weapon.

Meanwhile.. My guild of 400 fully enchanted fully geared sweatcovered neckbeard chads that went "waste of time." and skipped it.. are still sweatcovered neckbeard gigachads. Your only hope of countering/surviving? Hope you got 4,000 gold saved up for that ONE skill point broseph.. and it better be a DOOZY of a skillpoint.... and you and yer 19 friends better be running it around the clock to get it. Cause the Chads are coming now. Not 6 months from now. Think.

I guess the most basic question is.. "Who does this system, as it sits now, HELP?" The answer is "nobody."

There is no balance there, there is no equality or equivalency there either. The WHOLE Problem is EVERYONE says the tree "Isnt worth the investment."

You're trying to say its a good thing because... reasons?

The problem that you're not getting is.. it doesnt help ANYONE.. nevermind big or small guilds.. NOBODY is doing this. Nobody.

Your math ... it aint mathing homie. The scale is so lopsided its effecting the rotational axis of the Earth itself.

WestGamez · February 4

Just throwing out that Caravans regularly get killed… so lets say you complete 85% of your caravans (which as a player with guildies on at different times then me so run carvans mostly myself or 1 to 2 friends seems high completion) then your cost increases even more drastically…. And makes an even more juicy target for the zergs to hit knowing you could be providing a rival guild even more power to potentially oppose them, likely dropping your conpletion rate of caravans even lower yet again.

Tobz1 · February 4

ixobelle wrote: »

valid points, but I'm worried about the dev who's in charge of scorpion spawns in the desert. I think they maybe had a seizure and died on their keyboard holding down the F key. There are approximately 298,760 scorpions per square inch in the desert. It's silly.

Facts, someone please check on that person and let us know they are ok!

Tobz1 · February 4

Streeticus wrote: »

As someone who ran one of those caravans for testing, I want my glint back . Something to consider if you guys do balance, if you buff the exp of said crates it would be nice if it was retroactive, so my 5.5 heroic glint wasnt for nothing.

On a realistic note, we we not be doing these ever as its easier to just have extra guilds then deal with the amount of sheer glint needed for these runs.

Thanks for your feedback, we'll think about it and maybe in 9 months get back to you.

DrDingo · February 4

SmileGurney wrote: »

I really don't like the direction of many game systems. I don't mind slower games etc, but the grind levels are "slightly" unhinged in many AoC game systems. This won't help with player retention. The game is hardcore enough.

Agree 100% with this. the hardcore aspect is fine but the fact that if it keeps going this way anybody that isnt invested into this game now and for the first 6months of this game, anyone after that wont want to play cause they will never catch up. The system are scuffed and need fixing. Like there is no way id suggest AoC to my friends cause its just TO much BS and WAY to grindy for anyone but welfare bludgers and retired people. No normal working person has enough time in there day. FIX THIS GAME STEVEN

Reckan · February 4

The investment is definitely too high right now. Long term attainability is fine. I even like that is sucks glint/gold out of the economy which needs a large countersink to caravan running. However, I do not like that only caravans contribute towards the goal. Seems like Guild Wars, Node Wars, Treasure Hunting, Mayor Seats, caravan events, bosses done by guild only should all work towards the XP.

I would propose the following changes to the system now:

1. Leave the XP goal alone but give us more ways to earn XP as mentioned above
2. Reduce the xp earn the MORE members in the guild. The math should be around 30% or so. That way, smaller guilds can keep up a bit better and it makes it rewarding. If a guild stays small to level or zergs out to level, the relative time sink should be within that 30% marker. If a guild expands, i actually think it should be additive to your XP as well. Meaning that if you are 10 members deep and then jump up to 50, the xp of your guild leveling requirements should jump as well, even if it "unlevels" you. This prevents an abuse of the system and makes expansion of members an impactful decision. "Aka, sure, we will lose buffs in the short term to expand our numbers, knowing we could earn them back".
3. The skils need to be more guild oriented as well. How about a skill that lets you overlay the location of guild members on the minimap? Increase the storage capacity for guild members by x% (or guild bank). Or, guild could use the skill points to build up a large burst of a buff for crafting. Spend 5 skill points, grant 5000 rating to someone for a very important crafting item for the guild. A "guild flag" that could be planted to boost the stats of members in the ZOI.

overall, I like it is hard, just want to see more ways to earn xp and some more guild centric buffs.

garsu · February 4

the numbers are way too high to be achievable.... I wouldn't even want to see these numbers for the final point of the tree let alone at the beginning. Also raising guild levels should be a lot like how to raise a node from level 1 and beyond activities lead to guild xp be it mob grinding, gathering, and PvP events... this will allow guilds to specialize no mater how large or small the guild is... sure the larger guilds will do things faster but it at least keeps it realistic. Now I am not trying to be a doomsayer I believe with iteration and feedback we can strike the balance but in this version is a no beuno.

ballads · February 4

SmileGurney wrote: »

I really don't like the direction of many game systems. I don't mind slower games etc, but the grind levels are "slightly" unhinged in many AoC game systems. This won't help with player retention. The game is hardcore enough.

I dont know what you mean by "hardcore enough" but i hope you dont mean leveling 1-25. The actual problem is its trivial todo. Actual "hardcore" players got their first 25 before Christmas and spend a "day" making another lvl 25 alt every weekend. Even us with out the ability to talk in Leetspeak and double up our meds to stay uo long hours are max lvl in a few days.
This high exp gain drastically skews our view of all other progression systems. Node progression/development seems close to right me only limited by population lack of nodes in realized potential. I agree guild exp or the means to gain that exp is low, but every other system is giving 2-10 times the amount of exp it should.
I believe its so far off there is no more need to test any "progression system" Might as well just set everyone to max everything and BiS gear. Then give us a weekend to test in that server state/environment and Wipe the alpha servers once your ready to adjust the other Experience/Progression systems.

ilt · February 4

agree with the OP in pretty much every regard.

Chicago · February 4

AceTheFlame wrote: »

This doesnt even touch on how the buffs for small guilds are mostly bad. The idea Steven floated about smaller more powerful guilds or investing into larger zerg guilds just doesn't hold up. The left side of the tree is outright awful for the first 5 levels. Literally the only 2 combat nodes worth anything will be the 5% hp and 5% power. That's countered by the zerg side of the tree (middle) getting access to 10% hp and holding 190 members. There is no structural benefit for small guilds besides the crafting side (which zerg guilds could easily turn create an alt guild to mimic).

Lmfao I thought I was the only one that noticed this, also 5% power? The very top geared players ATM have 450 ish power, so + 22 power lol, I would rather the extra 5% HP in the middle path anyway, also the 5% power is the last talent so by the time small guilds even achieve this miniscule upgrade, the game will be 11 years old

Furthermore... To even achieve this 5% power it would cost at current times somewhere between 50-100,000 gold lmao, the entire guild could just use that money for full legendary + 10 gear and get a better boost in power anyway, I have said it before, the devs NEED to play their own game, not on GM accounts, not with insta legendary gear, it's so obvious that they don't because they are so out of touch with reality when implementing these changes

xiedd13ix · February 4

This is the main system I was hoping would benefit smaller guilds and help them have a somewhat useful edge when it comes to lack of numbers.

All I have seen and heard of the system is.

- Takes so long to level large/zerg guilds can only complete
- Large/zergs are much safer to run the caravans required making it basically large guilds exclusive or do the long method
- once Large/zerg guilds have leveled they get direct stat increases to yet again increase the gap from small guilds

This current system puts small/ medium guilds at such a wide disadvantage in every possible way.

This game I've been following for years and yes A1, PreA2,PTR, A2

And been looking forward to that wish of what Steven said small guilds can make stand strong and for 4 years been waiting for any system to actually help the smaller group.

Not a single system yet has this everything is just best throwing as many players at it as possible.

FEDChurch · February 5

Love the input! Keep it coming.

FEDChurch · February 5

xiedd13ix wrote: »

This is the main system I was hoping would benefit smaller guilds and help them have a somewhat useful edge when it comes to lack of numbers.

All I have seen and heard of the system is.

- Takes so long to level large/zerg guilds can only complete
- Large/zergs are much safer to run the caravans required making it basically large guilds exclusive or do the long method
- once Large/zerg guilds have leveled they get direct stat increases to yet again increase the gap from small guilds

This current system puts small/ medium guilds at such a wide disadvantage in every possible way.

This game I've been following for years and yes A1, PreA2,PTR, A2

And been looking forward to that wish of what Steven said small guilds can make stand strong and for 4 years been waiting for any system to actually help the smaller group.

Not a single system yet has this everything is just best throwing as many players at it as possible.

agree

AyAyRonUK · February 5

garsu wrote: »

the numbers are way too high to be achievable.... I wouldn't even want to see these numbers for the final point of the tree let alone at the beginning. Also raising guild levels should be a lot like how to raise a node from level 1 and beyond activities lead to guild xp be it mob grinding, gathering, and PvP events... this will allow guilds to specialize no mater how large or small the guild is... sure the larger guilds will do things faster but it at least keeps it realistic. Now I am not trying to be a doomsayer I believe with iteration and feedback we can strike the balance but in this version is a no beuno.

Agree with this fully

SmileGurney · February 5

DrDingo wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I really don't like the direction of many game systems. I don't mind slower games etc, but the grind levels are "slightly" unhinged in many AoC game systems. This won't help with player retention. The game is hardcore enough.

Agree 100% with this. the hardcore aspect is fine but the fact that if it keeps going this way anybody that isnt invested into this game now and for the first 6months of this game, anyone after that wont want to play cause they will never catch up. The system are scuffed and need fixing. Like there is no way id suggest AoC to my friends cause its just TO much BS and WAY to grindy for anyone but welfare bludgers and retired people. No normal working person has enough time in there day. FIX THIS GAME STEVEN

I find it funny that game developers in 2025 still think grind is a way to retain a healthy player population. Stop hiding behind grind, and create engaging game systems which offer variety of gameplay and playstyle options. Make sure pvp aspects are balanced, so everyone feels like they can make a meaningful impact in in pvp scenarios, instead of being trapped in ENDLESS pve grind cycles in order to catch up with the "fun stuff". That's what keeps players coming back to a game. Not hours of mindless, boring activities. Jeffrey Bard expressed fairly well few years back. One can only hope you are going be true to that vision, Intrepid.

Rumlox · February 10

I agree with most of what has been said here. The progression is far to slow and having to go out of your way to do activities for the sole purpose guild leveling is not fun. Especially in the current form where you are looking at spending hundreds of hours on just leveling the guild. Guilds should generally level like nodes where you get exp for things you are already doing. mixing in some guild events that advance the guild level might be cool but it should not be the main form of exp.

I want to add the while I like the idea of guild levels and a skill tree, member cap should not be tied to this system. Guilds should just have max members when being made. Having to have members wait in place holder guilds while the main guild levels feels horrible. Also, I feel that MMOs should make forming social groups easier not harder. The reasoning that limiting Guild size some how limits zerg size or power is nonsense. If the power side of the tree is strong enough to make a difference bigger guild will just stay broken up, and if it is not that strong it does not help smaller guilds fight bigger ones. Even a guild limit as low as 50 has done nothing to stop large guilds. its just makes the system worse. Guild size limits do nothing to stop zergs and only make in game socialization a hassle .

[FEEDBACK] Guild Leveling System Needs Tuning ASAP

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