[feedback] unpleasant looking character models

This is just a feedback and hopefully I don't come up as hyper critical, just honest. Anyways.. I have created a few characters and I have to say, they are not pleasant to look at, at all. I'm a woman and I like to play female toons. I was disappointed by the way the models look. They really look busted, like they have a drug or alcohol problem. In other words, they are ugly. The bodies aren't feminine enough either, basically a guy's body with breasts.

I realize this is the alpha phase still, but I have had flash-backs of LOTRO's old character models (and new as well, not that great even after the general graphic updates).

We need a little bit of everything in a game, some people don't care about what they play at all, I get that. So far though, I am disappointed by the character models.

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JeanPhilippeGunghar

Graphic pass and final polishing may come much later. I don't expect it before first beta to be honest. Remember how graphics/models looked great on livestreams, but meh in Alpha-2?

GreatPhilisopher

there have been dozens of threads about it from the start of the alpha , still nothing changed , the problem isnt that the "graphic pass" isnt done yet the problem is for whatever"obvious" reasons the base models for all the races and all the options are hideous looking , the CC being not finished and have little options in it is okay but the base and options in it and whatever they have in be looking like that is not.

i spent hours in all the races the best i was able to make was literally 1 non ugly but not beautiful Female Elf and somewhat decent looking vaelune guy like that is just horrible, then you go in the game and your model didnt get saved ,they look 10 times worse in game and then you try the very meh looking armors and you see that they have 0 variety as the female armors are just male ones with breast bulge.

when you say this people think you want to go full bikini armor korean mmo (which they should have the option to do so as giving a little from everything for everyone is good anyway) but what we actually want is actual feminine looking armors.

so yeah your comment on how the females are just a skinny guy body with breasts is in fact true and have been said many times before.

Noaani

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

there have been dozens of threads about it from the start of the alpha , still nothing changed , the problem isnt that the "graphic pass" isnt done yet the problem is for whatever"obvious" reasons the base models for all the races and all the options are hideous looking , the CC being not finished and have little options in it is okay but the base and options in it and whatever they have in be looking like that is not.

You are a little mistaken here.

A graphics pass on character models won't just add more options, it in fact won't add any new options.

A graphics pass is like when you are painting a portrait - you start out by drawing in a rough (VERY rough) pencil sketch of the basic notion you have for a finished painting. You then come along and put in the first few layers of paint - which are often just placing in background colors and lighting. Then you may come in for a rough basic silhouette of the actual subject of the painting, followed by a few more passes of things like detail and color correction/blending.

A casual observer would have no idea what the painting is even supposed to be about until about half way through the process.

You are looking at very unfinished character models. There is still a lot of polishing to be done. You do not have the information needed to make any comment as to whether the models are good or not, because you are not able to see the models as they are intended to end up.

All you are looking at is a rough sketch.

If basic things like weapons being in hands rather than on heads is functioning as expected at this stage, the character models are an unequivical success.

Once we hit the half way point of beta, then we will be in a position to give feedback on the aesthetics of the models.

Europa74

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

when you say this people think you want to go full bikini armor korean mmo (which they should have the option to do so as giving a little from everything for everyone is good anyway) but what we actually want is actual feminine looking armors.

so yeah your comment on how the females are just a skinny guy body with breasts is in fact true and have been said many times before.

Hi! I looked a few pages back and I didn't see the same feedback. Also, the point of the alpha and beta is player feedback, so if we have 1 player feedback vs 200, I see it as helpful

I agree with you, players should have access to different choices when it comes to physics and armors. Personally I like armors that cover up a little more. I find it classier. Or armor sets for women that give a paladin vibe (I used to call it my "templar" look, metal armor with long or mid length skirts). I can understand other players want a different look from what I like though.

GreatPhilisopher

Noaani wrote: »

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

there have been dozens of threads about it from the start of the alpha , still nothing changed , the problem isnt that the "graphic pass" isnt done yet the problem is for whatever"obvious" reasons the base models for all the races and all the options are hideous looking , the CC being not finished and have little options in it is okay but the base and options in it and whatever they have in be looking like that is not.

You are a little mistaken here.

A graphics pass on character models won't just add more options, it in fact won't add any new options.

A graphics pass is like when you are painting a portrait - you start out by drawing in a rough (VERY rough) pencil sketch of the basic notion you have for a finished painting. You then come along and put in the first few layers of paint - which are often just placing in background colors and lighting. Then you may come in for a rough basic silhouette of the actual subject of the painting, followed by a few more passes of things like detail and color correction/blending.

A casual observer would have no idea what the painting is even supposed to be about until about half way through the process.

You are looking at very unfinished character models. There is still a lot of polishing to be done. You do not have the information needed to make any comment as to whether the models are good or not, because you are not able to see the models as they are intended to end up.

All you are looking at is a rough sketch.

If basic things like weapons being in hands rather than on heads is functioning as expected at this stage, the character models are an unequivical success.

Once we hit the half way point of beta, then we will be in a position to give feedback on the aesthetics of the models.

nah , lets not get into how the alpha looks nothing like all the showcases we've been seeing for years , lets just talk about the character creator that was shown to be working and somehow had a bit better looking models 3 years ago but lets say that all of that is fine , the character creator is bugged and unfinished thats fine that dosent change the fact that it was their choice to make the characters hideous because it would take the same amount of effort to put the same very limited options the CC have right now but with actual good looking models where no matter what you create unless you go the extreme you will still get a decent looking character but its the exact opposite.

this wont be their first time uglfying things after a point all armors they started selling looked terrible with 0 variation between males and females, race models changed like remember the pyrai everyone was excited when they showed them first with almost ready models fast forward a few months out of nowhere they changed them well mainly the female and made it look like a skinny version of the male that looks like a 50 yrs old karen on drugs instead of the cute wood elf it was , not many said much about that because everyone thought we can fix it in the CC but well ...that didnt turn out great lol.

eitherway you can keep saying it will be fixed and changed when they do a graphic pass like 3 years from now or something same way the rest of us kept saying we can fix it in the character creator tho i am pretty sure nothing will change outside of maybe giving them some better lightning

GreatPhilisopher

Europa74 wrote: »

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

when you say this people think you want to go full bikini armor korean mmo (which they should have the option to do so as giving a little from everything for everyone is good anyway) but what we actually want is actual feminine looking armors.

so yeah your comment on how the females are just a skinny guy body with breasts is in fact true and have been said many times before.

Hi! I looked a few pages back and I didn't see the same feedback. Also, the point of the alpha and beta is player feedback, so if we have 1 player feedback vs 200, I see it as helpful

I agree with you, players should have access to different choices when it comes to physics and armors. Personally I like armors that cover up a little more. I find it classier. Or armor sets for women that give a paladin vibe (I used to call it my "templar" look, metal armor with long or mid length skirts). I can understand other players want a different look from what I like though.

most of it was on the normal general discussion not the alpha 2 one

Volgaris

Europa74 wrote: »

This is just a feedback and hopefully I don't come up as hyper critical, just honest. Anyways.. I have created a few characters and I have to say, they are not pleasant to look at, at all. I'm a woman and I like to play female toons. I was disappointed by the way the models look. They really look busted, like they have a drug or alcohol problem. In other words, they are ugly. The bodies aren't feminine enough either, basically a guy's body with breasts.

I realize this is the alpha phase still, but I have had flash-backs of LOTRO's old character models (and new as well, not that great even after the general graphic updates).

We need a little bit of everything in a game, some people don't care about what they play at all, I get that. So far though, I am disappointed by the character models.

They do have that haunted sunken eye look, like someone who has used hard drugs for years, maybe that's what life in Vera does to you XD. The between from the Before and After picture of a meth user. I'm glad the models aren't in Uncanny Valley range, like Starfield, those creep me out. 99% of the time I'm playing games like this zoomed out, which is kind of a shame because there are some really good details in the armors and characters that are awesome. So the ascetics of the character don't matter much to me (they do matter, just lower on the list). There are plenty of wifu maker games with jiggle effects that show even when the model has a breast plate on.. I like that they are aiming for a more 'realist' look for armor, not the enticing sex appeal of lingerie battle armor. But some armor that was female specific would be a good feature and give female characters more distinction.

Noaani

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

nah , lets not get into how the alpha looks nothing like all the showcases we've been seeing for years , lets just talk about the character creator that was shown to be working and somehow had a bit better looking models 3 years ago but lets say that all of that is fine , the character creator is bugged and unfinished thats fine that dosent change the fact that it was their choice to make the characters hideous because it would take the same amount of effort to put the same very limited options the CC have right now but with actual good looking models where no matter what you create unless you go the extreme you will still get a decent looking character but its the exact opposite.

If that is what you want to talk about, cool.

I'll reply with "lets not forget that you aren't seeing the only build of the game, nor is there any reason you should assume you are seeing the most complete build".

You are presented with a game that is asking you to test. Anything that is both not completed but also not being tested is given to you in a manner where the base function is in place, and nothing more.

You are not testing character models, you are likely never going to test character models (broken character models make the game literally unplayable, meaning you can't test anything). However, character models are also not finished. As a result, you have been provided with functional character models in order for you to be able to test the parts of the game that do need to be tested.

I swear, one day people will understand what an alpha is - and more importantly, isn't - about.

Those other models and the character creator - for now you can assume they are off in some other build being worked on.

Chicago

Noaani wrote: »

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

nah , lets not get into how the alpha looks nothing like all the showcases we've been seeing for years , lets just talk about the character creator that was shown to be working and somehow had a bit better looking models 3 years ago but lets say that all of that is fine , the character creator is bugged and unfinished thats fine that dosent change the fact that it was their choice to make the characters hideous because it would take the same amount of effort to put the same very limited options the CC have right now but with actual good looking models where no matter what you create unless you go the extreme you will still get a decent looking character but its the exact opposite.

If that is what you want to talk about, cool.

I'll reply with "lets not forget that you aren't seeing the only build of the game, nor is there any reason you should assume you are seeing the most complete build".

You are presented with a game that is asking you to test. Anything that is both not completed but also not being tested is given to you in a manner where the base function is in place, and nothing more.

You are not testing character models, you are likely never going to test character models (broken character models make the game literally unplayable, meaning you can't test anything). However, character models are also not finished. As a result, you have been provided with functional character models in order for you to be able to test the parts of the game that do need to be tested.

I swear, one day people will understand what an alpha is - and more importantly, isn't - about.

Those other models and the character creator - for now you can assume they are off in some other build being worked on.

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

GreatPhilisopher

Noaani wrote: »

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

nah , lets not get into how the alpha looks nothing like all the showcases we've been seeing for years , lets just talk about the character creator that was shown to be working and somehow had a bit better looking models 3 years ago but lets say that all of that is fine , the character creator is bugged and unfinished thats fine that dosent change the fact that it was their choice to make the characters hideous because it would take the same amount of effort to put the same very limited options the CC have right now but with actual good looking models where no matter what you create unless you go the extreme you will still get a decent looking character but its the exact opposite.

If that is what you want to talk about, cool.

I'll reply with "lets not forget that you aren't seeing the only build of the game, nor is there any reason you should assume you are seeing the most complete build".

You are presented with a game that is asking you to test. Anything that is both not completed but also not being tested is given to you in a manner where the base function is in place, and nothing more.

You are not testing character models, you are likely never going to test character models (broken character models make the game literally unplayable, meaning you can't test anything). However, character models are also not finished. As a result, you have been provided with functional character models in order for you to be able to test the parts of the game that do need to be tested.

I swear, one day people will understand what an alpha is - and more importantly, isn't - about.

Those other models and the character creator - for now you can assume they are off in some other build being worked on.

lets not forget that the main point is that it dosent matter if its finished or not but what they decided to put in it.

they have an unfinished character creator with bugs that looks way worse than what they showed 3 years ago (which is suspicious but lets say its totally fine) and they put a little amount of stuff in it , go ahead tell me why the little content they put in this unfinished CC was made to look horrendous instead of putting the same small amount it have now but instead good looking characters and models , why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

because it was a choice they made, same with the armors

Chicago

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

nah , lets not get into how the alpha looks nothing like all the showcases we've been seeing for years , lets just talk about the character creator that was shown to be working and somehow had a bit better looking models 3 years ago but lets say that all of that is fine , the character creator is bugged and unfinished thats fine that dosent change the fact that it was their choice to make the characters hideous because it would take the same amount of effort to put the same very limited options the CC have right now but with actual good looking models where no matter what you create unless you go the extreme you will still get a decent looking character but its the exact opposite.

If that is what you want to talk about, cool.

I'll reply with "lets not forget that you aren't seeing the only build of the game, nor is there any reason you should assume you are seeing the most complete build".

You are presented with a game that is asking you to test. Anything that is both not completed but also not being tested is given to you in a manner where the base function is in place, and nothing more.

You are not testing character models, you are likely never going to test character models (broken character models make the game literally unplayable, meaning you can't test anything). However, character models are also not finished. As a result, you have been provided with functional character models in order for you to be able to test the parts of the game that do need to be tested.

I swear, one day people will understand what an alpha is - and more importantly, isn't - about.

Those other models and the character creator - for now you can assume they are off in some other build being worked on.

lets not forget that the main point is that it dosent matter if its finished or not but what they decided to put in it.

they have an unfinished character creator with bugs that looks way worse than what they showed 3 years ago (which is suspicious but lets say its totally fine) and they put a little amount of stuff in it , go ahead tell me why the little content they put in this unfinished CC was made to look horrendous instead of putting the same small amount it have now but instead good looking characters and models , why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

because it was a choice they made, same with the armors

Agree, not to mention the new races are being released with almost no difference in style than the humans and also look like cracked out drug addicts too lol, why not make them beautiful and diverse, if they are all being released looking like trash, what is even the holdup? Just released them all now lol

Noaani

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Chicago

Noaani wrote: »

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Intrepid stated that the cc would be ready last September, people like you are the reason people hate posting feedback here, as soon as they do the white knights come out in storm

Azherae

Chicago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Intrepid stated that the cc would be ready last September, people like you are the reason people hate posting feedback here, as soon as they do the white knights come out in storm

Don't ask for proper estimates from people who are learning how to do things for the 'first' time.

The reality of getting a clean development product does not usually match up to the planning expectation even in projects where the planner has done it before.

So yeah, people are gonna 'white knight' when they know that a director going 'I think we can have X feature ready by Y time' only means that they don't know what will delay it, yet. It's not like anyone is saying 'this will work or turn out good', just that you can't tell.

Noaani has basically no faith in the content quality, I have basically no faith in their networking solution, and you seemingly have no faith in the character visuals, but only one of those things is even partially being 'seriously' tested right now.

Chicago

Azherae wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Intrepid stated that the cc would be ready last September, people like you are the reason people hate posting feedback here, as soon as they do the white knights come out in storm

Don't ask for proper estimates from people who are learning how to do things for the 'first' time.

The reality of getting a clean development product does not usually match up to the planning expectation even in projects where the planner has done it before.

So yeah, people are gonna 'white knight' when they know that a director going 'I think we can have X feature ready by Y time' only means that they don't know what will delay it, yet. It's not like anyone is saying 'this will work or turn out good', just that you can't tell.

Noaani has basically no faith in the content quality, I have basically no faith in their networking solution, and you seemingly have no faith in the character visuals, but only one of those things is even partially being 'seriously' tested right now.

I do have faith, I did not bring up the deadline because I expect the full CC by now, the reasoning I brought it up is because if intrepid stated it was close to finished last August, then this may not actually be a place holder and intrepid may actually think that their characters look good, this is the feedback they need to hear, and no one is doing intrepid any favours by posting " this is an alpha bro" after every post on the forums, we all know that but it doesn't mean people can't leave their opinions

GreatPhilisopher

Azherae wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Intrepid stated that the cc would be ready last September, people like you are the reason people hate posting feedback here, as soon as they do the white knights come out in storm

Don't ask for proper estimates from people who are learning how to do things for the 'first' time.

The reality of getting a clean development product does not usually match up to the planning expectation even in projects where the planner has done it before.

So yeah, people are gonna 'white knight' when they know that a director going 'I think we can have X feature ready by Y time' only means that they don't know what will delay it, yet. It's not like anyone is saying 'this will work or turn out good', just that you can't tell.

Noaani has basically no faith in the content quality, I have basically no faith in their networking solution, and you seemingly have no faith in the character visuals, but only one of those things is even partially being 'seriously' tested right now.

for people doing it for the first time it sure is funny how they claim to have many experienced and even industry veterans in their studio and after over 8 years of development they are still new to it why did they even bother starting

Noaani

Azherae wrote: »

Noaani has basically no faith in the content quality, I have basically no faith in their networking solution, and you seemingly have no faith in the character visuals, but only one of those things is even partially being 'seriously' tested right now.

This is a fair assessment.

However, the reason I am not giving feedback on content right now is because I know it is not currently in a state that they are looking for feedback on it.

To me, that is the difference.

Talking about the character models lacking in their current form is fine, especially if there is an understanding that the current state is not considered even close to finished. Expecting that to change at a time other than when Intrepid is ready for it to change - which is what some people in this thread are doing - is not ok.

Cyjax

Elven sunken cheeks look like they are coming off day 120 of Ghandi inspired fast.

Noaani

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Intrepid stated that the cc would be ready last September, people like you are the reason people hate posting feedback here, as soon as they do the white knights come out in storm

Don't ask for proper estimates from people who are learning how to do things for the 'first' time.

The reality of getting a clean development product does not usually match up to the planning expectation even in projects where the planner has done it before.

So yeah, people are gonna 'white knight' when they know that a director going 'I think we can have X feature ready by Y time' only means that they don't know what will delay it, yet. It's not like anyone is saying 'this will work or turn out good', just that you can't tell.

Noaani has basically no faith in the content quality, I have basically no faith in their networking solution, and you seemingly have no faith in the character visuals, but only one of those things is even partially being 'seriously' tested right now.

for people doing it for the first time it sure is funny how they claim to have many experienced and even industry veterans in their studio and after over 8 years of development they are still new to it why did they even bother starting

There are a few issues with this statement.

Sure, they claim to have years of experience, and indeed they do. However, has anyone currently at Intrepid been the character lead of an MMORPG pre-launch? Since I don't expect you to be able to answer that, I will.

The answer is no.

Chris - who is a fantastic character artist - worked at SoE/Daybreak for more than 10 years. He made it to senior character designer of existing MMORPG's, but never lead designer. My understanding is that Chris worked on Vanguard pre-launch, but as a very junior artist, and not even specifically focused on characters - definately not in a position where he would even be made aware of the issues an in development MMORPG lead character artist would be facing.

Your question as to whether Intrepid are still new to this is also showing a total lack of understanding.

The blatantly obvious answer to that question is that yes, they are. They are because they have not shipped a game with a full suite of custom, customizable character models as yet.

Creating character models is a process that happens over many steps. There are a number of steps that Ashes have not even started on any models as yet - when they get to those steps they will obviously be new to them. Some of the steps Intrepid are likely to run their models through didn't even exist when Intrepid Studio was formed and Chris was hired - so how could you POSSIBLY expect them to have experience there?

Fact is, creating character models for an MMORPG is more complex of an understaking than anything you have ever done in your life (anything I had ever done in my life until a career change). You didn't like them and posted as such. You are upset that instead of getting replies that were emotion based and agreed with you, you got a reply that was purely logic based and tore your opinion to complete shreds - not even saying your opinion was wrong, but that it was wrong of you to even have an opinion at this stage - logically speaking. As a result of that, you are now just running your mouth (fingers, as it were) attempting to justify how people with skills you don't have should be able to perform a task you have no concept of, just because you didn't like the aesthetic of placeholder art.

Azherae

Chicago wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

This thread is a great example of why the general public shouldn't be bought in to actually test a game during an actual testing phase. You people shouldn't be allowed to see the game until release.

If you have no character models, you can not do anything in the game, thus no testing (not entierly true, UE has default character models, but if they used them at all it would flag the game as a scam to almost everyone).

If Intrepid put all the time in to character models before putting them in to the test, then that is a multi-year delay for the game. They would literally have to be working on the character models and nothing else.

GreatPhilisopher wrote: »

why is that when it takes the same effort,same work,same everything hell making them ugly as hell probably took more time and effort.

It does not take the same amount of time and effort - that is perhaps the key things you simply don't understand.

It takes exponentially more work, by a number of specalized (ie, people that simply can not do each others jobs) artists.

Like, I get it, you are totally ignorant in regards to how this works. That doesn't mean you should just complain and assume you know though. You should be made aware that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Chicago wrote: »

I guess we should just stop with feedback all together because there may or may not be other builds of the game

No, people should learn the difference between something that is in a state to be tested (and thus in a state to recieve valuable feedback), and things that are not.

Intrepid stated that the cc would be ready last September, people like you are the reason people hate posting feedback here, as soon as they do the white knights come out in storm

Don't ask for proper estimates from people who are learning how to do things for the 'first' time.

The reality of getting a clean development product does not usually match up to the planning expectation even in projects where the planner has done it before.

So yeah, people are gonna 'white knight' when they know that a director going 'I think we can have X feature ready by Y time' only means that they don't know what will delay it, yet. It's not like anyone is saying 'this will work or turn out good', just that you can't tell.

Noaani has basically no faith in the content quality, I have basically no faith in their networking solution, and you seemingly have no faith in the character visuals, but only one of those things is even partially being 'seriously' tested right now.

I do have faith, I did not bring up the deadline because I expect the full CC by now, the reasoning I brought it up is because if intrepid stated it was close to finished last August, then this may not actually be a place holder and intrepid may actually think that their characters look good, this is the feedback they need to hear, and no one is doing intrepid any favours by posting " this is an alpha bro" after every post on the forums, we all know that but it doesn't mean people can't leave their opinions

My bad actually, this is pretty fair.

Thinking about it, Intrepid saying 'X will be ready' probably should open them up to feedback on the 'X' in question even if they don't explicitly ask for it, and yeah, your point definitely wasn't about 'this should be done'.

I know and empathize with the feeling of 'wondering if a developer knows that the thing they have implemented is not okay as is'. So, consider me swayed, actually, relative to the 'white knighting' thing.

That was just my sympathy for the Devs kicking in, but I also think that the character models and character creator are particularly related, actually.

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