Why make everything so punishing??

I know the standard answer goes '' Well this game isn't for everyone .. so don't play it if you don't like the PVP/Lack of Fast Travel?Death Penalities/ Lack of Solo Play etc etc.

I say, why not make it more appealing to more people though? As an MMO Community we are kind've hanging out for 'the next big thing' for quite a while now. A lot of us have supported development by buying into the Alphas and giving 'testing' a go. We are entitled to give our opinions. A lot of us are old time MMO Players so we do have valid opinions. I for example spent over $700 Aussie Dollars supporting the game, so don't say I haven't been suportive

Why not tweak things so more players want to play? Why make everything super hard/super punishing? Many of us in RL have enough RL struggles,, we just want to escape into a game enjoy some playtime. We WANT to support a new game, a great game, one we can play for years! One we can solo OR group? Flag for PVP.. or not. Quest OR grind.

I agree, don't make things toooo easy - maybe the difficulty level of say Classic WoW -- which yes is still popular because it's not 'too' easy, people can play PVP or PVE, they can make Macro's, Quest, Spam Dungeons, Battlegrounds, Multibox (yes.. legally is ok .. don't get your knickers in a knot..) Group or not group etc etc.

I really don't get this whole NON fun, narrow minded approach?

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Azherae

Which thing do you think could actually be less punishing, and maintain the flow of the game as it is described?

What thing do you want from Ashes enough to maintain your interest all this time if you want Classic WoW difficulty (you can just basically list all the stuff you hate about Throne and Liberty or Elder Scrolls Online, for example).

Volgaris

@Gigibytes Most players are craving something not like current MMOs. WoW classic was a big hit right, but when WoW launched it was a "carebear" game. It streamlined players to end game with quest hubs and a perfect path to follow to reach cap with the most efficiency. Relaxed death penalties, high drop reward rates, in general high "feel good" hit rate. Compare this to EQ, Ultima, FFXI, MUD/s and so on. WoW was extremely carebear. Every game after WoW copied it and put in "QoL" features that made the game easier, even WoW did it, like the removing of skills, all these games got more simple, easy, and accessible. And successful for quite a few.. Avoid the red squares on the ground, stack your gear with the highest gear rating points, everyone can tank, dps, heal, ect, ect, ect.

You also probably didn't look up Stevens vision enough before buying. ( I didn't... ). The game isn't made to be solo'd. You can get to cap solo. You can get pretty decent gear if you buy it. But so you do get to cap and get some gear, what then? Everything in the game is based off group content at level cap. If you allow PvP flagging than you have a completely different game way off target from the goal. Open PvP is going to keep alot of people away, and will make a lot more quit.

I've come the conclusion this game is more like a survival/crafting game. Yeah you got some simple rpg systems, but they're so basic they hardly matter, just stack your magic or physical power. No in class diversity, all 25 mages have all the same skills, ect. Only your gear matters when it comes to your 'build', and gear can be handed down from guildies, so there's no gear progression if it can be skipped. All these things remind me of something like Ark or Valheim, sure you got a level, but after a week or two everyone will be at cap, so you're basically just your gear and a lot of players won't "earn" it they'll be fed gear to pump the numbers for their Groups pvp goals. Some people may love this, fair, but it's not what I was looking for.

I think a lot of people were wanting something that was a throw back to the late 90s/early 2000s but innovated on, large, smoother, depth, meaningful content/story, rewarding challenges and punishing defeat systems. Wrapped up in an open world open PvP game it'd be awesome.

uNworn1

Gigibytes wrote: »

I know the standard answer goes, '' Well this game isn't for everyone, so don't play it if you don't like the PVP/Lack of Fast Travel? Death Penalties/Lack of Solo Play, etc.

I say, Why not make it more appealing to more people though?[/b] As an MMO community, we've been hanging out for 'the next big thing' for quite a while now. A lot of us have supported development by buying into the Alphas and giving 'testing' a go. We are entitled to give our opinions. A lot of us are old-time MMO players, so we do have valid opinions. I for example, spent over $700 Aussie Dollars supporting the game, so don't say I haven't been supportive.

Why not tweak things so more players want to play? Why make everything super hard/super punishing? Many of us in RL have enough RL struggles; we just want to escape into a game and enjoy some playtime. We WANT to support a new game—a great game—one we can play for years! One we can solo OR group? Flag for PVP... or not. Quest OR grind.

I agree, don't make things too easy—maybe the difficulty level of say Classic WoW—which yes, is still popular because it's not 'too' easy, people can play PVP or PVE, they can make macros, quests, Spam Dungeons, Battlegrounds, and Multibox (yes, legally, it's ok; don't get your knickers in a knot.) Group or not group, etc.

I really don't get this whole non-fun, narrow-minded approach.

Because its an autistic PvP kids community and only what they say is good; they will never exept any other opinion; you spend money on an outdated project; there is no place for simple players; they will run game; they will have around 200 people playing it; and after die very fast and left only see how this kids will cry in reddit or other forums; 100% any mmo cannot stay alive if have no players

Volgaris

uNworn1 wrote: »

Gigibytes wrote: »

I know the standard answer goes, '' Well this game isn't for everyone, so don't play it if you don't like the PVP/Lack of Fast Travel? Death Penalties/Lack of Solo Play, etc.

I say, Why not make it more appealing to more people though?[/b] As an MMO community, we've been hanging out for 'the next big thing' for quite a while now. A lot of us have supported development by buying into the Alphas and giving 'testing' a go. We are entitled to give our opinions. A lot of us are old-time MMO players, so we do have valid opinions. I for example, spent over $700 Aussie Dollars supporting the game, so don't say I haven't been supportive.

Why not tweak things so more players want to play? Why make everything super hard/super punishing? Many of us in RL have enough RL struggles; we just want to escape into a game and enjoy some playtime. We WANT to support a new game—a great game—one we can play for years! One we can solo OR group? Flag for PVP... or not. Quest OR grind.

I agree, don't make things too easy—maybe the difficulty level of say Classic WoW—which yes, is still popular because it's not 'too' easy, people can play PVP or PVE, they can make macros, quests, Spam Dungeons, Battlegrounds, and Multibox (yes, legally, it's ok; don't get your knickers in a knot.) Group or not group, etc.

I really don't get this whole non-fun, narrow-minded approach.

Because its an autistic PvP kids community and only what they say is good; they will never exept any other opinion; you spend money on an outdated project; there is no place for simple players; they will run game; they will have around 200 people playing it; and after die very fast and left only see how this kids will cry in reddit or other forums; 100% any mmo cannot stay alive if have no players

I'm pretty critical about this games direction with PvP, but it really seems like you guys just don't want to PvP at all. So why did you buy into Ashes? It's was very open about being a PvX game. No PvE servers. Nor are they trying to replace or even compete with games like WoW.

Personally I like RvR games, and it seems that Ashes is trying to make a dynamic RvR while still allowing infighting, which can be really awesome, but we'll see. Allowing PvP to be flagged off breaks basically everything. Could a PvE server work? Yeah, but then the game would be half of what its met to be.

I just don't understand the complaint against PvP though... it's a PvP game, if you don't like PvP why would you buy it?

Chicago

I tend to agree, the other issue is, even with it being exhaustingly punishing, none of the systems are even fun, like straight up deleting 25% of resources on death could be removed as it's extremely rare you will ever make it back to your corpse to loot it anyway

Corruption is way over tuned
Gathering is boring, lackluster and not engaging at all
Level 1 crafting requirements are extremely over the top

It sort of feels like Intrepid have this idea that every single system in the game needs to be a 250 hour grind or its to easy

The other issue and I think this is a big one, intrepid so NOT play their game, even if they hide some alts in random guilds they are not actively engaging with the systems they created, they are spawning fully crafted legendary gear that removes any aspect of seeing how bad these systems are

Shabooey

Chicago wrote: »

I tend to agree, the other issue is, even with it being exhaustingly punishing, none of the systems are even fun, like straight up deleting 25% of resources on death could be removed as it's extremely rare you will ever make it back to your corpse to loot it anyway

Add to that the XP debt you get from death, no idea what it's adding to the game.

rambox

tHIS THE TYPE of person that destroy game. He is literallly complaing about what the game got right.

Mahes

I am wondering why they make it so punishing during testing phases? The idea is to get players to test all of the systems and areas. If you make the game unattractive, you lose testers. The current system is way to boring to have such a lengthy leveling requirement for a game that kind of wants to test a lot of the systems at max level.

I enjoy RvR. I would love to engage in the RvR system but I do not want to go through the Wall Of killing 10's of thousands of mobs just to reach the point where the game might be a lot of fun. The scary part of this is that 25 is not even the level cap.

tashka

If you make the game unattractive, you lose testers.

Well it's attractive to a lot of people. I'm a fairly casual player and it's not "too" punishing at all. And i'm a tank.

Copperfield

image the whole map being active and you need move from north to south map...

takes around 4 hours of travel...

Volgaris

Copperfield wrote: »

image the whole map being active and you need move from north to south map...

takes around 4 hours of travel...

This is exactly what I want. Hell make it 16 hours, and with a slow caravan it might be!

Volgaris

Mahes wrote: »

I am wondering why they make it so punishing during testing phases? The idea is to get players to test all of the systems and areas. If you make the game unattractive, you lose testers. The current system is way to boring to have such a lengthy leveling requirement for a game that kind of wants to test a lot of the systems at max level.

I enjoy RvR. I would love to engage in the RvR system but I do not want to go through the Wall Of killing 10's of thousands of mobs just to reach the point where the game might be a lot of fun. The scary part of this is that 25 is not even the level cap.

Same here. I guess, just don't test. I'll probably login for Rogue or when another Race comes out, but other than that I'm not testing anything unless they boost the exp, drops, materials, ect.(for the test, NOT the game) I gave up on actually testing because of inventory bugs deleting my items. I really wanted to dig deep into crafting so I went to go grind out some gathering again and just walked away. I don't expect a test to be fun, but also didn't expect to have to grind so much for it too.

Noaani

It's almost as if Ashes is designed around having a high sense of risk vs reward more so than it is designed to be fun.

Seems as if someone forgot the notion that risk vs reward *can* (as in, not always) make a fun thing more fun. If the activity isn't fun, risk vs reward makes it even more not fun.

In order for a game with a high sense of risk vs reward to be successful, the core gameplay loops of that game (combat, gathering, crafting) need to be exceptional examples of their type. They need to objectively be the best of the best, not just average.

Veeshan

Still trying to figure out whats so punihsing about the game lol

Kicker69

Veeshan wrote: »

Still trying to figure out whats so punihsing about the game lol

its punishing because people are use to instant results.. no one likes to grind anything anymore. no one likes to earn anything. just wants participation rewards. i like how everything takes a long time and is hard to acheive. crafters for example, i want to see a GM crafter and say damn.. he put in some work.

blktauna

Nonsense. People don't like disrespect to their time. I would love to pvp but the who process of doing that is needlessly complex and punishing. Just like everything else so far.

Sneakypie

My take on the punishing things is this:

Loosing XP for dying, it's generally annoying
No fast travel at all, except if you die ......
.. to expand on the fast travel, I'd be happy with a one-hour CD type hearth.. It helps if you need to log off suddenly and is generally a nice way to round out a session of gaming.. ie hearth, repair, park
Loosing goods from inventory if you die
... eg so you've finally found copper .. then u loose it
No way to lvl up except grind mobs
Resources required for levelling Professions in early levels need to be plentiful.. otherwise.. why both trying?
Repetitive grinding Elite mobs at higher levels ,, I just can't do this type of thing, groups speed pulling.. over and over and over the same thing.. ><
Unattractive face options for female characters
Vibe is generally just too serious
I have heard finding things on the market is difficult too ..
Probably more things but I quit a few weeks ago .. so can't remember them all

I'd love to come back. Once I hear people are actually HAVING FUN and my personal time seems worth spending, I'll come back.

Until then, I'll be lurking in Discord and here on the forums.

Noaani

blktauna wrote: »

People don't like disrespect to their time.

This is basically what it boils down to.

Different people have different ideas of what disrespecting ones time looks like, but no one likes it when they feel their time isn't respected.

Azherae

Gigibytes wrote: »

My take on the punishing things is this:
Loosing XP for dying, it's generally annoying

No fast travel at all, except if you die ......
.. to expand on the fast travel, I'd be happy with a one-hour CD type hearth.. It helps if you need to log off suddenly and is generally a nice way to round out a session of gaming.. ie hearth, repair, park

Loosing goods from inventory if you die
... eg so you've finally found copper .. then u loose it

No way to lvl up except grind mobs

Resources required for levelling Professions in early levels need to be plentiful.. otherwise.. why both trying?

Repetitive grinding Elite mobs at higher levels ,, I just can't do this type of thing, groups speed pulling.. over and over and over the same thing.. ><

Unattractive face options for female characters

Vibe is generally just too serious

I have heard finding things on the market is difficult too ..

Probably more things but I quit a few weeks ago .. so can't remember them all

I'd love to come back. Once I hear people are actually HAVING FUN and my personal time seems worth spending, I'll come back.

Until then, I'll be lurking in Discord and here on the forums.

Thanks for clarifications, I hope it helps the team.

Hopefully someone will let you know when they think you will start to have fun, based on your list above.

Tahiti02

Gigibytes wrote: »

I know the standard answer goes '' Well this game isn't for everyone .. so don't play it if you don't like the PVP/Lack of Fast Travel?Death Penalities/ Lack of Solo Play etc etc.

I say, why not make it more appealing to more people though? As an MMO Community we are kind've hanging out for 'the next big thing' for quite a while now. A lot of us have supported development by buying into the Alphas and giving 'testing' a go. We are entitled to give our opinions. A lot of us are old time MMO Players so we do have valid opinions. I for example spent over $700 Aussie Dollars supporting the game, so don't say I haven't been suportive

Why not tweak things so more players want to play? Why make everything super hard/super punishing? Many of us in RL have enough RL struggles,, we just want to escape into a game enjoy some playtime. We WANT to support a new game, a great game, one we can play for years! One we can solo OR group? Flag for PVP.. or not. Quest OR grind.

I agree, don't make things toooo easy - maybe the difficulty level of say Classic WoW -- which yes is still popular because it's not 'too' easy, people can play PVP or PVE, they can make Macro's, Quest, Spam Dungeons, Battlegrounds, Multibox (yes.. legally is ok .. don't get your knickers in a knot..) Group or not group etc etc.

I really don't get this whole NON fun, narrow minded approach?

Why? Because we have entire garbage bins filled with MMO's that have what you want. We don't need another. What I don't understand is why we have people like you constantly coming in here and trying to get dad gamer mentality shoved in.

I also have limited time, Im no longer a 20 year college student that has nothing going on. I won't be able to get to max level instantly, I won't be able to travel 4 hours straight in game, I won't get the best gear. THAT IS FINE. Not everything needs to be given on a silver platter all the time. The adventure is the fun, its what made old school MMO's fun. Like I said, there are plenty of games that offer that, go play those. Yeah thats harsh but what you want goes against everything Steven has said over the years.

I will say the same thing as Intrepid has, the game is currently in the worst state it will ever be. They will add more activities, solo content, features, etc. You will have stuff to do. Just don't come in here demanding Intrepid caters to players that want instant gratification, you have those games already, go play them or learn to appreciate what AoC is trying to create.

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