Azherae wrote: » Patrolling in pairs would be a start...
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » For what I hear the guard system seems promising, patrolling guards is very cool! Over time the system will have adjustments here and there and be fine I think it is worth having a guard system that lets people go into the enemy city and commando style just yoink some kills in their own place, this is thrilling!
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Carebears who play like bots without communicating with their fellow citizens must coordinate their defense as a group or suffer the consequences for playing like a NPC.
Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » For what I hear the guard system seems promising, patrolling guards is very cool! Over time the system will have adjustments here and there and be fine I think it is worth having a guard system that lets people go into the enemy city and commando style just yoink some kills in their own place, this is thrilling! OK, I can understand this aspect from the attacker's perspective, if the guards are actually legit AI cool and this is a difficult task. But it's different when the attackers are maxed out 1 shotters and the only punishment for death by guards is the walk back from the emberspring. Contrast that with the noob at the storage, just trying to catch up and get some better gear so they can actually compete in PVP, getting 1 shotted and losing 1/2 the mats they were transferring from/to storage. The noob at the storage is risking WAY more, just to do a simple/fundamental task for progression in Ashes, while the person "commando styling the guards" doesnt even have to care about the guards because they can 1 shot the guy with mats before they die. Guy with mats loses 1/2 his shit, killer loses nothing. LULZ all the way back to storage. Guy with mats cant transfer or do anything. Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Carebears who play like bots without communicating with their fellow citizens must coordinate their defense as a group or suffer the consequences for playing like a NPC. Treating this as an issue of "Carebears who play like bots" is completely missing the point. In a game where professions are REQUIRED to catch up to gear score, there is a huge imbalance between the 1 shotter who doesnt care about guards at all and the regular player just doing a fundamental task - interacting with storage. This current setup only encourages anyone who is weaker than the 1 shotter to drop their node during node wars, or guild during guild wars, etc. Is this really the incentive we want to drive for players? Drop your affiliations because whoever is online and available is unable to defeat the other side? If you cant even interact with storage, your options in this game are quite limited, especially when you are already behind on gear progression.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » For what I hear the guard system seems promising, patrolling guards is very cool! Over time the system will have adjustments here and there and be fine I think it is worth having a guard system that lets people go into the enemy city and commando style just yoink some kills in their own place, this is thrilling! OK, I can understand this aspect from the attacker's perspective, if the guards are actually legit AI cool and this is a difficult task. But it's different when the attackers are maxed out 1 shotters and the only punishment for death by guards is the walk back from the emberspring. Contrast that with the noob at the storage, just trying to catch up and get some better gear so they can actually compete in PVP, getting 1 shotted and losing 1/2 the mats they were transferring from/to storage. The noob at the storage is risking WAY more, just to do a simple/fundamental task for progression in Ashes, while the person "commando styling the guards" doesnt even have to care about the guards because they can 1 shot the guy with mats before they die. Guy with mats loses 1/2 his shit, killer loses nothing. LULZ all the way back to storage. Guy with mats cant transfer or do anything. Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Carebears who play like bots without communicating with their fellow citizens must coordinate their defense as a group or suffer the consequences for playing like a NPC. Treating this as an issue of "Carebears who play like bots" is completely missing the point. In a game where professions are REQUIRED to catch up to gear score, there is a huge imbalance between the 1 shotter who doesnt care about guards at all and the regular player just doing a fundamental task - interacting with storage. This current setup only encourages anyone who is weaker than the 1 shotter to drop their node during node wars, or guild during guild wars, etc. Is this really the incentive we want to drive for players? Drop your affiliations because whoever is online and available is unable to defeat the other side? If you cant even interact with storage, your options in this game are quite limited, especially when you are already behind on gear progression. I stand by what I said, I fully get the struggle, and I’m saying it’s okay. If you’re weak, you’ve got to play the game, rely on someone stronger, and ask for help. If you end up dying because you’re weak, that’s your fault. Every group has its heavy hitters, they are the ones who step up as heroes, while you’re stuck playing the damsel in distress, just shouting for rescue. Newbies don’t sway the tide in conflicts, noobs don't matter, they’re just dead weight the strong have to lug around. If the citizens don't work for the group, maybe it’s time to ditch the group. Talk to the locals and to the mayor, see if they’ll step up. If they don’t give a damn, walk away since these people are not worth your time. Everything that happens to you and how you overcome everything is just content, it is your personal story.
Azherae wrote: » Right, that's where the snowball effect comes from. Grpup PvP games simply have that snowball effect built in, it mostly doesn't matter how fair you make it precisely because it's a game. People start treating them as PvE games with 'annoying mechanics' or they leave. It's probably 'fixable', but Ashes' foundation has no intention of 'fixing' it, which is why I don't think guards are there to do that. If your issue is with the suppression of the weak by the strong, this isn't a game to be looking at too seriously.
Xeeg wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Right, that's where the snowball effect comes from. Grpup PvP games simply have that snowball effect built in, it mostly doesn't matter how fair you make it precisely because it's a game. People start treating them as PvE games with 'annoying mechanics' or they leave. It's probably 'fixable', but Ashes' foundation has no intention of 'fixing' it, which is why I don't think guards are there to do that. If your issue is with the suppression of the weak by the strong, this isn't a game to be looking at too seriously. Well there are already penty of ways they do that. There is a reason they made the noob area a NON PVP zone. It's the job of the game designer to put limits on player actions to improve the gameplay for the rest of the players. IMO storage is one of those areas, almost as important as the noob area. Getting PVP soft locked out of storage shouldnt be something that just randomly happens to regular people playing the game.
Azherae wrote: » At this point I think we as MMO fans need to start looking at the types of people who want the games, moreso than the financial incentives or 'design mistakes'.
Ludullu wrote: » Azherae wrote: » At this point I think we as MMO fans need to start looking at the types of people who want the games, moreso than the financial incentives or 'design mistakes'. If only I'd have Steven's money. I'd definitely make the most middle ground mmo out there I'd call it The Fence.
Ludullu wrote: » It'd be nice if they became weaker during node sieges of course, but I'd imagine that's already the plan, cause otherwise no one would be able to siege.
Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » For what I hear the guard system seems promising, patrolling guards is very cool! Over time the system will have adjustments here and there and be fine I think it is worth having a guard system that lets people go into the enemy city and commando style just yoink some kills in their own place, this is thrilling! OK, I can understand this aspect from the attacker's perspective, if the guards are actually legit AI cool and this is a difficult task. But it's different when the attackers are maxed out 1 shotters and the only punishment for death by guards is the walk back from the emberspring. Contrast that with the noob at the storage, just trying to catch up and get some better gear so they can actually compete in PVP, getting 1 shotted and losing 1/2 the mats they were transferring from/to storage. The noob at the storage is risking WAY more, just to do a simple/fundamental task for progression in Ashes, while the person "commando styling the guards" doesnt even have to care about the guards because they can 1 shot the guy with mats before they die. Guy with mats loses 1/2 his shit, killer loses nothing. LULZ all the way back to storage. Guy with mats cant transfer or do anything. Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Carebears who play like bots without communicating with their fellow citizens must coordinate their defense as a group or suffer the consequences for playing like a NPC. Treating this as an issue of "Carebears who play like bots" is completely missing the point. In a game where professions are REQUIRED to catch up to gear score, there is a huge imbalance between the 1 shotter who doesnt care about guards at all and the regular player just doing a fundamental task - interacting with storage. This current setup only encourages anyone who is weaker than the 1 shotter to drop their node during node wars, or guild during guild wars, etc. Is this really the incentive we want to drive for players? Drop your affiliations because whoever is online and available is unable to defeat the other side? If you cant even interact with storage, your options in this game are quite limited, especially when you are already behind on gear progression. I stand by what I said, I fully get the struggle, and I’m saying it’s okay. If you’re weak, you’ve got to play the game, rely on someone stronger, and ask for help. If you end up dying because you’re weak, that’s your fault. Every group has its heavy hitters, they are the ones who step up as heroes, while you’re stuck playing the damsel in distress, just shouting for rescue. Newbies don’t sway the tide in conflicts, noobs don't matter, they’re just dead weight the strong have to lug around. If the citizens don't work for the group, maybe it’s time to ditch the group. Talk to the locals and to the mayor, see if they’ll step up. If they don’t give a damn, walk away since these people are not worth your time. Everything that happens to you and how you overcome everything is just content, it is your personal story. OK, sure, this is one form of logic... Just not sure how many people find this logic appealing when the vast majority are "weaker" than the top 1-shotters. Being locked out of storage impacts the majority of useful game loops, this is not an area where you want people to recklessly dominate "the weak". Storage should be one of the most secure places in the game because it directly links almost all of the game loops for power enhancement together. A PVP soft lock should be maybe happening to 1% of the population for a couple hours a month. Not every citizen/guildy for every weekend. Instead, your suggestion is that the players should start a new game loop which is called leaving their node/guild and finding a new one until they end up on the strongest team? Is this really the incentive people want in a game? I would think that people would still like to retain their guild/node and help them grow stronger, not just run away. I just dont see why storage access has to be involved in this whole thing, when all it is doing is gear gating people from storage due to node/guild affiliation. There can be many other ways/places to have conflict in the game that dont create this dynamic. Guards arent/havent been helpful for this type of griefing.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate.
REHOC wrote: » I get the frustration, but I think the guard system isn't inherently bad, it’s just incomplete and poorly tuned right now.
Aszkalon wrote: » I have never fought them -> but i also kinda got Wind of the Guard NPC's being kinda invincible.
Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate. But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely. You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate. But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely. You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage. When i do dangerous trading in another game i do in batches, overtime when both players trush each other more then we increase how big the batch is
Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate. But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely. You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage. When i do dangerous trading in another game i do in batches, overtime when both players trush each other more then we increase how big the batch is Does this mean that you will go grab some lego braidwood out of storage, right now in ashes, when there are red enemies around? What server u on and node citizen?
