Please Delay P3

Im gonna be honest, the vast majority I've seen isn't hyped for P3 Launch and I know many people who dont even wanna play when its launched in August (spare me the its not a game its a test argument).

If you compare P2 to the current Phase 2.5 it was an overall step backwards it was downright terrible to play with the reduced gear drop the inability to craft and the gold inflation (which to some fault is due to the hacking/rmt). This is not a good thing you want people to engage with your game and ideally push the limit to get the best testing results. To clarify I'm not saying "this game sucks" or anything I'm saying that I think they should delay the next Phase further to give themself more time so they can launch with more features ready and especially the Summoner class. They teased a lot of great things in their last Livestream however they are most certainly not ready for a while if they launch into P3 (based on exerpience from the past so far) especially since they announced that Summoner is 2 Months away after Launch, which bummed a lot of people out myself included and makes people not wanna participate in P3 (I am undecieded).

So in the end I do hope that Intreped allows themself for a bit more time at the least til Summoner is ready, since everyone has access to PTR now we have a great testing ground in the meanwhile.

PS: Personally I want 1 Megaserver again it was quite fun to play with everyone across the Globe. (Sorry flat earthers)

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Noaani

davenb wrote: »

What a whole lot of nothing

You mean what a whole lot of good points you cant contest in any way.

Mahes

There will either be partitions in Phase 3(3.1,3.2) or they will have a Phase 4. There is just to much of the game left for me to think that Phase 3.0 is the end of the Alpha stages.

I agree with a delay if the economy features are not going to make it in. It seems strange to start a whole new phase and then later introduce a critical system like the economy. Now they could choose to just not wipe yet. That might could also work if they wipe when the new economy feature is added.

They claim to be buckling down to get everything ready. I would think that is a constant state, given how far behind the game is.

I rarely post on these forums anymore. The game is just taking so long to be made. The MMO forum I do use, does not even talk about this game anymore. I am concerned at whether or not this game is going to have the funding needed to reach the finish line. His company has a lot of overhead at the moment with 200+ employees, utilities, supplies and other line items. I used to think this game would release in 2026. Now I have pushed that back to 2027, or/and the game releases with less features.

davenb

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

What a whole lot of nothing

You mean what a whole lot of good points you cant contest in any way.

I refuted to every time but it doesn't matter. I will give you one attempt.
Give me one reason why they should not consider a delay.

davenb

Mahes wrote: »

There will either be partitions in Phase 3(3.1,3.2) or they will have a Phase 4. There is just to much of the game left for me to think that Phase 3.0 is the end of the Alpha stages.

I agree with a delay if the economy features are not going to make it in. It seems strange to start a whole new phase and then later introduce a critical system like the economy. Now they could choose to just not wipe yet. That might could also work if they wipe when the new economy feature is added.

They claim to be buckling down to get everything ready. I would think that is a constant state, given how far behind the game is.

Possibly I just dont believe in it frankly, it would be great if I were wrong though. They could and Im certain they will do a wipe again though from the Dev. perspective I would try avoid that esp since P3 is the "Content Phase"

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

Give me one reason why they should not consider a delay.

Because they have things to test.

None of your "reasons" trump that. None of then even warrant a second thought.

Noaani

Mahes wrote: »

There will either be partitions in Phase 3(3.1,3.2) or they will have a Phase 4. There is just to much of the game left for me to think that Phase 3.0 is the end of the Alpha stages.

Absolutely without a doubt.

There is no world in which alpha test 3.0 is the last alpha test for this game.

davenb

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

Give me one reason why they should not consider a delay.

Because they have things to test.

None of your "reasons" trump that. None of then even warrant a second thought.

LOL. nice one, that being said Im not gonna interact with you anymore.
You clearly seem too disconnected.

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

Give me one reason why they should not consider a delay.

Because they have things to test.

None of your "reasons" trump that. None of then even warrant a second thought.

LOL. nice one, that being said Im not gonna interact with you anymore.
You clearly seem too disconnected.

Of the two of us, I think i am the only one that is connected to the alpha test for this game.

You are just another of those people trying to treat this test as an early access game as opposed to a test. I totally agree that I am disconnected from that notion - but only because that entire notion is incorrect.

Your perspective here will without a doubt make the next alpha phase more enjoyable.

My perspective will without a doubt make the live game more enjoyable.

The only question is if you consider the alpha or the live game to be of the greatest importance.

Imanek

I’ll always be in favor of a delay if they’re not ready. At the end of the day, the PTR is meant for testing. And to test properly, we need to play, practice, give feedback, and take things seriously:

The economy: It’s been a mess for the past 10 months.
The vassal system: This includes node locking with level 4 nodes, the dynamic evolution of mobs inside, the vassalage of lower nodes, node wars, and sieges.
The new starting zone: It needs to launch complete, and be just as good as Riverlands in terms of gear, resources, quests, and POIs.
The gear: There have been major changes again — stat changes on certain items, new stats added, new buff lines... basically everything got reworked. That means we need thorough testing in both PvE and PvP, so we don’t end up (again) with a ridiculous player vs environment imbalance. Right now, everything feels broken.
Server stability: We need to be able to play in normal — if not optimal — conditions.
The new dynamic PvP zones: These need to be properly tested too.

These are core systems, and they need to be tested on the PTR before anything goes live. In my opinion, just that already calls for a full month of serious testing, to make sure feedback is actually useful and any fixes aren’t rushed, but thoughtful and deliberate.
In short a proper work method.

Because if it launches too early, and nothing works, I already know what will happen: player drop-off.
I saw it in Phase 1, Phase 2, and Phase 2.5 first in the guild, then across the server. The player population collapses fast.
So yes, if there’s a delay even if it’s announced late it’s still better than crashing headfirst into the wall.

On top of that, there are still a few nice additions that could be included:
The Summoner, for those who want to main it and get to test it along with everyone else.
The Ren'Kai race, which is expected to be added soon.
and more ...

So yeah, that’s where I stand today, and why I believe the work needs to be done seriously — not just rushed out the door because “we promised August 4th.”

But that said, I totally get the frustration from people who planned their vacation around this date, expecting to no-life the game under the AC… or not 😄
Again this is just my opinion, how I feel about it. We don’t know anything yet about the upcoming week’s test schedule and even less about a potential delay, which might be announced (or not) during the final livestream of the month, probably with a whole bunch of justifications.

But hey at least I got a little head start in thinking about it 😄

davenb

"The new dynamic PvP zones: These need to be properly tested too."
Yup this one worrys me if there is a non existend playerbase you dont get proper data.

"But that said, I totally get the frustration from people who planned their vacation around this date, expecting to no-life the game under the AC… or not 😄"
I feel with those but in the end its not a game launch but an alpha, might sucks but thats how it is

Noaani

Imanek wrote: »

I’ll always be in favor of a delay if they’re not ready. At the end of the day, the PTR is meant for testing. And to test properly, we need to play, practice, give feedback, and take things seriously

So, a hypothetical for you;

Imagine Intrepid don't have the economy aspect of the next beta phase ready to test, and won't for 6 months. However, imagine they do have some back end server stability issues fixed and ready to deply that they need testing.

Thus is an *exceedingly* realistic scenario. I can not possibly convey to you just how plausible this scenario actually is.

So, with the above, should Intrepid delay the next alpha test until the economy changes are ready, and then deploy them at the same time as the stability fixes that are likely to cause some server down time, or should they start up an alpha test with those server fixes in place, so that the issues that will lead to some server downtime are resolved before the economy changes hit alpha?

Which option should Intrepid take here?

Tahiti02

You don't have to ask, they are going to delay because they have barely any progress to show. Guess those extra 3 months didn't do much...

davenb

Good Job boys we did it o7

Meux88

It's still surprising to me that people still think that a delay will make a difference... it got delayed by 3 weeks wtf do you think they will achieve? now everyone will say oh they delayed it and it still sucks ( it's an alpha it will still have problems) and they will loose a lot because of it ... you can't be a very bright person if you think the delay will change anything. This listen to the players b**lsh*t needs to stop devs need to have a vision and keep that...

Caww

It's barely enough time to apply a few more band-aids, never mind anything serious...

Noaani

Meux88 wrote: »

It's still surprising to me that people still think that a delay will make a difference... it got delayed by 3 weeks wtf do you think they will achieve?

It will achieve less testing for the final product, thst is about it.

So, if we are to assume this thread and the other people whining to delay the next phase had an effect on this decision at all, then congrats guys, you actively made the release version of the game worse.

davenb

"We plan milestones ahead of this current one. And we have big plans for P3 with an update in November. I do not want to impact that timeline by further delaying P3, and we need to ensure proper testing/data collection with the current planned p3 entrance systems/content in order to deliver on our goals for November."

from Steven

Personally I dont believe it will be enough time, there is not much to do but to trust on his word or not but thats exactly what I tried to archieve. The fact that people dont see it or even worse are against it is just honestly sad. There has been supringly a lot of pushback against the delay which just shows how many people do not care if the game improves or not and has the best launch possible whenever it will be.
Thank you for the people who choose to support AoC because I do like this game and hope it has a bright future and furthermore I hope the people who are againt it for some reason reconsider their life choices.

GG

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

The fact that people dont see it or even worse are against it is just honestly sad.

It is you that isn't seeing it here.

You are saying that you don't think they have the time to get the test to a state you want to see it in before the next phase.

Most of us agree.

What we are saying is that this is not the point of testing.

If there is one thing I have learned about Steven in the 8 or so years I've been following this game, and the {somewhere between 4 and 7 years, being non-specific to protect identities of the people I am talking about} I have been talking to friends of mine that work for Steven, it is that he is surprisingly susceptable to peer pressure - but only if it comes from online sources.

What this means is that the loudest people in this community absolutely have the power to fuck this game over - and that is exactly what they are doing. Steven often times listens to people online that have no clue what they are talking about, have no understanding of game development but harp on about what *they* want to see, and Steven listens to them over the people that are actually making the game, that actualy know what they are talking about.

@davenb if you want Ashes to succeed, the best thing you can do, and I mean this with all honesty and sincerity, is just shut the fuck up.

ordotemplarii

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

Give me one reason why they should not consider a delay.

Because they have things to test.

None of your "reasons" trump that. None of then even warrant a second thought.

LOL. nice one, that being said Im not gonna interact with you anymore.
You clearly seem too disconnected.

Of the two of us, I think i am the only one that is connected to the alpha test for this game.

You are just another of those people trying to treat this test as an early access game as opposed to a test. I totally agree that I am disconnected from that notion - but only because that entire notion is incorrect.

Your perspective here will without a doubt make the next alpha phase more enjoyable.

My perspective will without a doubt make the live game more enjoyable.

The only question is if you consider the alpha or the live game to be of the greatest importance.

I think this can be refuted in one second continuing with the construction site example. If you can see that the foundation of what is being built is crooked and will not be able to bare load. You do not continue to construct it.

Noaani

ordotemplarii wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

davenb wrote: »

Give me one reason why they should not consider a delay.

Because they have things to test.

None of your "reasons" trump that. None of then even warrant a second thought.

LOL. nice one, that being said Im not gonna interact with you anymore.
You clearly seem too disconnected.

Of the two of us, I think i am the only one that is connected to the alpha test for this game.

You are just another of those people trying to treat this test as an early access game as opposed to a test. I totally agree that I am disconnected from that notion - but only because that entire notion is incorrect.

Your perspective here will without a doubt make the next alpha phase more enjoyable.

My perspective will without a doubt make the live game more enjoyable.

The only question is if you consider the alpha or the live game to be of the greatest importance.

I think this can be refuted in one second continuing with the construction site example. If you can see that the foundation of what is being built is crooked and will not be able to bare load. You do not continue to construct it.

I mean, that isn't an overly good refudiation.

The build on alpha that we are testing is not the version that Intrepid are directly working on. The developers are not pushing their work to alpha to see if it works as expected, is stable etc. Rather, each team has their own build to push their own work to in order to test it.

This simple fact in itself renders your analogy broken. Unlike construction, leaving alpha in place does not stop the construction of things that need to be fixed.

However, what your analpgy missed is that stopping the alpha isn't akin to stopping construction of a building in order to fix potential issues, it is actually akin to stopping investigating what those potential issues are, and trying to fix the issues using only the data you have on hand.

The game isn't perfect, we all know that. Finding out why is THE REASON ALPHA EXISTS.

Stopping alpha because there are issues is literally counter productive to what the alpha test is supposed to be achieving.

The problem, as I have been saying for a very long time, is that a handful of loud people want to PLAY the game, not TEST the game.

I am of the opinion that the best thing Intrepid can do for this game, and thus for their company, is kick those people out of the alpha test.

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