Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Casuel Feedback
nanfoodle
Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I'm a hard core gamer who has been PvPing, raiding, running raids and guilds who's real life responsiblies now have me playing at a casual pace.
I get to hop in for an hour here or two there. I have planed gaming nights where I get 2-4hrs of hardcore game time. So here is where casuel gamers live.
Spending 1/2 or all of my gaming time to find a team to get content done does not work. IS team has consistently made it harder to get a team with level gaps, drop reductions, exp reductions.
These need to be modified to make it a more relaxed for casuels. Adding things like level scaling and mentorship makes it so we can join our guilds, friends and partners. This is by far the most important area you can help casuels. It can be done it ways its restrictive and not totally encompassing. Let a team have no more then two mentored players for instance.
Next is options for crafting and gear. I get RNG stretches out the content but also makes a much larger time sync. I have about 25 maybe 30 recipes i have gotten in RNG drops by level 9.5. Not one is for my crating types I am working on. Have the recipies come in a chest with 5 options say that you can pick from with maybe some in game system that makes it somewhat a smart selection. I would rather 3 relevant drops over 30 i dont need and need to take my valuable time to try and find someone to trade with.
Rest machines or catch up mechanics as well. The hard core player will always beat catch up mechanics but adding them help the casuel player to have a fighting chance. My time off line should count to an in game boost. It should be impactful and could even be a catch up mechanics for crafting as well. To make this fare, it could be active for just one char at a time of our choosing.
When a cauel puts in 2hrs of game time in, we should feel like we have advanced more then 2 bubs of experience. My wife and I are on vacation this week and put in 9hrs of gaming in one day at level 6 and at the end of the day we crafted a weapon for each of us and got two levels. Our guildies are outside our level range. So we have to rely on pugs or playing duo. Its much slower and often surrounded by morons who like to take you into exp debt.
Every time sync needs to be looked at, how can this be modified to support casuel players. We get you need to slow down the hard core players but right now its 100% tuned just for that and time is the cauels players biggest road block.
Cauels and people who want to see the game succeed because about 80% of any MMO is made up by casual players. Ashes will not survive if they do not support the casual Gamer. Please add to the thread in ways that can help support casuals without breaking the game.
I get to hop in for an hour here or two there. I have planed gaming nights where I get 2-4hrs of hardcore game time. So here is where casuel gamers live.
Spending 1/2 or all of my gaming time to find a team to get content done does not work. IS team has consistently made it harder to get a team with level gaps, drop reductions, exp reductions.
These need to be modified to make it a more relaxed for casuels. Adding things like level scaling and mentorship makes it so we can join our guilds, friends and partners. This is by far the most important area you can help casuels. It can be done it ways its restrictive and not totally encompassing. Let a team have no more then two mentored players for instance.
Next is options for crafting and gear. I get RNG stretches out the content but also makes a much larger time sync. I have about 25 maybe 30 recipes i have gotten in RNG drops by level 9.5. Not one is for my crating types I am working on. Have the recipies come in a chest with 5 options say that you can pick from with maybe some in game system that makes it somewhat a smart selection. I would rather 3 relevant drops over 30 i dont need and need to take my valuable time to try and find someone to trade with.
Rest machines or catch up mechanics as well. The hard core player will always beat catch up mechanics but adding them help the casuel player to have a fighting chance. My time off line should count to an in game boost. It should be impactful and could even be a catch up mechanics for crafting as well. To make this fare, it could be active for just one char at a time of our choosing.
When a cauel puts in 2hrs of game time in, we should feel like we have advanced more then 2 bubs of experience. My wife and I are on vacation this week and put in 9hrs of gaming in one day at level 6 and at the end of the day we crafted a weapon for each of us and got two levels. Our guildies are outside our level range. So we have to rely on pugs or playing duo. Its much slower and often surrounded by morons who like to take you into exp debt.
Every time sync needs to be looked at, how can this be modified to support casuel players. We get you need to slow down the hard core players but right now its 100% tuned just for that and time is the cauels players biggest road block.
Cauels and people who want to see the game succeed because about 80% of any MMO is made up by casual players. Ashes will not survive if they do not support the casual Gamer. Please add to the thread in ways that can help support casuals without breaking the game.
3
Comments
These need to be modified to make it a more relaxed for casuels
If there is no exp or drop reduction than you'll have power leveling happening. Even with mentorship there isn't much instance content anyways. Could a mentorship program work? maybe, but it'll be exploited by everyone. I think the leveling process should just be the leveling process.
There are other causals playing, I'm playing/testing causally right now. Just enjoying the exploration process and testing things I'm interested in. Causals will be important to the games success, but they'll never reach the achievements the hardcore players do, and they shouldn't. But you should be able to progress and enjoy it. Maybe join a causal guild, or make one.
LFG could be better, they should copy what Pantheon has. That's a great LFG system. That'd help find groups.
Also the towns are under developed so getting proper gear is rough. Trade chat helps but still hit and miss. And until player stores are up it'll be rougher solo/duo, but as a group it's fairly easy to gear out even crafting everything. I'd have assumed your guild would be passing you gear to help you advance faster. Getting some blues will have you dropping mobs fast.
Hard no on the catchup mechanics, this devalues the leveling processing. Just level up, don't rush, enjoy it.
If your guild is out pacing you because they are hardcore then join one that's more your speed. Big issue is not many people playing in alpha are looking for a causal playing experience. From those I've met they are either hardcore or just dipping their toes in to see what it's like. If this perspective is the truth then it's a problem, because they won't be getting causal players feedback. As you said causals normally make a large percentage of the population, will that be in Ashes? I don't know, but I think they need a healthy population for causals to be successful.
Your not getting this thread. IS asked for feedback on how to make Ashes casuel friendly. Don't like my suggestions, off others. Or how to adjust my feedback that fits with helping cauels and not break the game. Fact, most people left testing because the game became so harsh towards cauels, my wife and I were among them. My entire guild left the game. Loreforge is gone, some 300 players. Many gone for good.
What I do think is encouraging is that Steven and the team have already confirmed several systems aimed at helping people connect and not feel left behind:
Mentorship is on their roadmap, and while it has to be carefully balanced to avoid abuse, it could become a great bridge between different level ranges.
Player-driven economy and crafting means that as the world fills with more people, it will become easier to find the recipes, materials, or crafted gear you need without relying solely on RNG drops.
Guilds, family systems, and social tools will help casuals play with friends without always being gated out of content.
I think the main challenge right now is that in Alpha 2, the population is still small, towns and markets aren’t fully developed, and LFG tools are very basic. Once testing moves forward and systems like player shops, caravans, mentorship, and more polished LFG features are implemented, many of the concerns you raised will naturally feel less punishing.
At the end of the day, AoC is being built with the idea that community matters more than rushing. Hardcore players will always push ahead, but casual players will still have meaningful goals, social structures, and progression paths. I really believe the balance Intrepid is going for will give casuals a place without compromising the vision of the game.
I have guild members in other games you can call 'casuals' that sometimes can't/don't bother to log in at all for a whole week.
The quality of some things in the Alpha are currently below the level that would cause 'casuals' to stick/play more, but there's also a lot of stuff in Ashes that retains their interest without causing them to actually log in significantly more than that.
I'm sure they plan to improve the various economy and questing flows, so...
1. An important part of being casual-friendly is being solo-friendly. If only being able to login for an hour or two here or there, you want to be able to make meaningful progress even when it's not possible to join up with your guildmates and friends. Not to mention the fact that there is a huge population of people out there who prefer more solo-oriented play within an MMO world. Honestly, AoC is not horrible in this regard, but it's important to keep focus on ensuring the game offers a path for solo players.
2. Travel times. If you only have a couple hours to login, and you want to run a dungeon or even just farm with friends, it's tough to need to spend 30 minutes riding across the map. And once we have all 85 Settlements, this is going to be a serious issue.
Also, separate issues that I need to mention in every post moving forward. The grind is excessive, corruption is excessive and crafting isn't fun.
I think AoC has a bright future ahead, but this is going to require some compromise on "this games just not for you, and that's ok."
This is the big Kicker, the main thing that hard core player base is leaning towards and is the reason why Narc had so much backlash when he made very clear and valid points. but those points weren't even thought on for a second, they were straight dis missed and due to that they lost a very strong advocate for the game with a very strong follower base.
And here we are 8 months on after Narc was derailed from the community. With the current issues we face today, that were brought up back then.
at least quote the owner honestly "this game is not for everyone and that's OK"
I understand it fine. You're mad it's not causal friendly. I made suggestions for a better LFG. I made a suggestion to create a casual guild because you said you're guild out paced you and your wife, but now they ALL left? Which is it?. Managing a guild isn't really a causal thing, so that's probably not good for you. I pointed out some flaws in your suggestions. I agree the game is not causal friendly, and it's not a game yet. Here's a good place to voice your frustration for sure, many people feel the same way as you, I do as well, I'm just not as upset or invested I guess. At the end of the day not all MMORPGs are the same. I think this game has some potential more as a, MMO more like Dune with some light RPG mechanics, or a grindy survival lite game, rather than as a traditional MMORPG, if we think UO, EQ, WoW as the traditional ones.
I don't think they have in house testers. Their devs might test, but devs testing their own programs isn't really testing... QA seems to be lacking, but this is an Alpha so shit just ain't going to be right. Things are going to suck, and be broken, balance is going to off a lot sometimes. Real testing isn't for anyone, testing can suck, you need have a real passion for the game to tolerate it without getting paid. You are not playing a game, you are testing a game... for free. And at the end of the game despite all your frustrations and warnings to the Devs it could still be a game you don't want to play. But you do have a chance to complain and maybe, just maybe they'll change something.
As it is I wouldn't play this game. The RPG mechanics as far as stats go are boring, it's power level / gear score shit. There's no story or quests that's worth a damn that I've found, and screw EXP rewards as quest rewards... Crafting is tedious and unfulfilling. Nodes are joke, there's no reason to participate in them, they're boring treadmills. Caravans come with so much risk it they might not even be viable. The pseudo faction based system is so short sited it's baffling the flaws it causes in other systems haven't been addressed yet. Progression is flatlines too often. Gathering is annoying and tedious. Bag space is down right rigged for a ESO unlimited bag space P2W system. LFG system is non existent, finding groups via chat is just dumb. Make an LFG menu for fucks sake... Trade is the same, let players open stores, let them accept services, let them sell services and items. The stalls acting like a defacto auction house is an insult to what was expected. We need some instant dungeons and some balanced pvp, hint hint, spawn two groups in a dungeon make them compete. The tank role is a joke, just zerg and dps it all down... Did NW teach people nothing about the boring death zerging has on a game.. Anyways I could go on and on about the flaws. At the end of the day it's Stevens game, he likes what he likes. If wants a AA/L2 hybrid for PvP, conflict, betrayal, and angst than he should make it. I might play it, for a little bit until my free sub runs out lol.
I didn't play Lineage 2 much. But from what I can remember the game was extremely grindy for leveling. MUCH MUCH more than what we got here. This is extremely fast compared to that. I'd prefer something more Lineage in this regards. Also Lineage didn't give quest EXP which was fantastic, I hate quest EXP. (or it gave really little). Started coming back to me, yeah that was a fun game, hard and grindy, but fuck was it fun. But comparing Lineage to Ashes is odd, they are so different and Ashes isn't holding up to it. It's compromising too much. It's trying to make a game to please everyone and in the end that's going to make everyone unhappy. Hell could you imagine how pissed people would be if it took them months to reach max level. I'd argue if you like Lineage for it's old school spirit, than you wouldn't like Ashes. It has abandoned that for the sake of the post WoW generation. Shit I might go find a L2 classic server now lol
Your not getting it. I used used to tough. I have been MMOing for 26+ years. I was at Everquest launch. Im 100% worried about Ashes viability. Casuals make up 80% of the MMO population. Even in this game. Dont like my ideas, make others. IS has asked for feedback on how to make this game more casual friendly to retain that type of customer and I am sure like me, would like to do it in ways it still feels old school. What can be done besides telling people how to play or that this is not their game. This game will flop without the support all MMOs have changed their games to retain, casuals.
bro you have karma pvp... go red die and drop gear.. enchant system.. die and lose exp.. extreme crafting.. guild wars... an open world.. which i aint got since l2 in any mmo. grind locations you have to create groups for and actually run to. the only classes that are different would be instead of warcryer there is bard for mana battery instead.. its legit the same game but everyone can craft instead of just the dwarf.
i take that back bdo has a open world.. but i didnt really get into it due to the non tab target just grapple pvp wasnt fun..
I think you missed my point. I gave you specific suggestions to enjoy your testing more. Whether it be your guild has out paced you or has quit. I then fall back on it being a test, not a game. I agree the game is not causal friend, and that without a healthy causal base the game will likely not be 'successful'.
How can they bridge the gap between hardcore and causal players? You're asking for suggestions, but you haven't made any yourself. There have been discussions on this before in other threads. It would make for a good Dev discussions if they haven't had one yet.
Personally I think the 'pseudo faction' system is a major problem for causals. Someone who plays 3 days a week for 2 or 3 hours per session is causal, but a guild isn't going to want to take up a spot for that person unless it's a causal guild. Your faction is your guild and your node currently. But if you're running a caravan to improve your Node you could be attacked by people from your Node... It's asinine. Labeling needs to be better to ID friend vs foe better. Not just for caravans but for ashes too. All these systems place a player who is solo, small group, or causal guild in a world of 'enemies'.
My suggestions.
1. Fix labeling to help ID friend vs foe. Node/Guild/Religion/Vassalship/ect
2. Node reputation system to penalize people who attack members of the specific Node, including Node members. To a point to where they can't use that Node and become hostel to the guards there. If you join a caravan attack on a caravan from someone from your Node or Vassal you should be notified and there should be consequences to doing that. Since it's an event there'll be no corruptions, but your node reputation should suffer. I've written more about this before.
Why do these things. They establish a more clear 'sides', a us vs them mentality. There'll still be conflict between Node/Guild/Religion and it'll be more interesting. You might have a caravan that's an enemy Node but an ally Religion to you. From what I read and heard from Steven this the intent, but currently I don't see the structure in place to make this happen. Picking a Node at leasts gives you that faction your apart of and there'll be some rules to follow for all members of that faction built into the system. Some structure at least. The idea of relying on the player for things like this dumb, and corruption isn't enough to create this structure.
Other things.
1. Get rid of the level 1-10, 11-20 gearing system. It's dumb. Use a more granular scale.
2. Make the first levels of gear easier to craft. By.
3. a. Put all crafting stations on both sides of the starting area.
4. b. Fix storage issues in the starting area. There's so many resources but so little space.
5. c. Limit what people can craft in the beginning, Make them chose their crafts at level 1. Dont' allow all players to craft everything at the start. OR increase the number of nodes or respawns for the gathering materials.
6. d. Fix hunting for leather workers and leather gear.
7. Decrease drop rates of gear and/or create a tier of gear called 'damaged'. So anything that is crafted is better than what is dropped.
8. Slow down the actual leveling process, it's rocket ship fast and way way way to easy. In sense go back to some Old School mechanics.
9. Get rid of the quests that give you gear rewards. Why craft if I get half my gear from quests and the other half from drops?
10. Get rid of quest EXP, provide materials for crafting in it's place. EXP should only come from killing mobs and crafting.
11. Gathering and crafting EXP needs to be tuned down, right now it rewards too much.
12. Let players open up personal shops and sell items or services, or buy items and services. Like in FF.
13. The player stall should be very similar to a store front, not a auction house.
14. Let players break down gear for materials and/or recipes.
15. Ban the exploiters and cheaters.
All the above provides a better balance (imo). And provides the player with more paths to achieve a goal, whether it be leveling, crafting, node progression, ect. This is all early level stuff though.
I don't see value in quest hubs for leveling, or mentorship programs, or anything that makes leveling or progressing easier or faster. But lets remove the annoyances and frustration. Fix the balance so people aren't running around for 30minutes looking for hawks or grem to start crafting some pants.
There have been massive improvements this phase. It's still not 'fun' to play, but as a testing environment it's not bad. And testing isn't for someone who is only able to play causally. Your time will be 'wasted' you will find shit that's just broken or doesn't make any sense. There's still so much missing from the game so it's hard to say what still needs to be done to bridge the gap between causals and hardcore players. If PTR comes back online maybe you'll enjoy that more, I do.
The crazy thing is, you can design a game that actually penalizes grouping and mega guilds and the hardcore in some way. And we will STILL come out on top, by miles.
So in the case of Ashes where it's nothing but bonuses for being as zergy and hardcore as possible, the average player gets left in the dust. Maybe that's just the way it's going to be. I'll still be here for it. But if it was my game, it'd be priority one to make some things more accessible for the average player.
You can't have a game where the tryhards are basically end game in 2 days. And everyone else has weeks/months of slog. Or maybe you can lol fk I dunno I guess we'll see. But that's not the way I'd do it. I just don't really see the point of it. And as someone who will ultimately benefit from it, it's kinda boring. Uncompetitive.
Zerging is boring, regardless of which side you're one. If zerging is the meta for the game I won't play. It just won't be fun to me. And I'd bet money it'll be down to 1 or 2 servers in 6 months after launch.
The game takes heavily from L2 and AA. But the leveling process is too fast. In L2 it took months to reach max. AA was faster because of quest EXP rewards. In this game you're not attached to your character, it's a husk... What really matters is your guild and your node right now. Your time is invested in leveling your guild and node, probably a hundred times more effort and time into leveling your guild/node vs your character, your character is a disposable element. It simply doesn't matter if you lose the character, the gear is tradeable, the materials, gold, items, ect. The only thing that would hurt is IF you decide to leveling a crafting skill. But a guild only needs 11 characters to grand master all professions. Every other character is well, disposable. All of this gives points to the zerg meta.
My own take/Recommendation for Success is -> overtake one - JUST ONE - Content from WoW.
Make it so, that "Levelling" for Example is able to be done with several kinds of Contents. What the Alpha 2 already had since the Beginning of Phase 1 - was finishing Quests -> and (mass)murder Enemy Mobs.
But what about chopping wood ? Cutting down Trees ?
What about fishing ?
What about mining Ores ?
Do/will those Activities also give decent Amounts of EXP ? Will mining an Ore give as much EXP as killing One or Two Enemy Mobs of the same Level as your own Character ? Will chopping down Trees do the same ?
Even if you will forever need Groups for most kinds of Contents because many Enemy Mobs or Areas are just to tough and high-Damage for single Players,
the Options to come around in the World of Verra must be definitely more wide than in Phase 1 -> and while i already heard that the Levelling Experience was improved -> i know that this will be VEEEEEEEEEEEEERY soul-crushing and Motivation-crushing in the long Run,
- > if any sorts of Players are only able to level up by grinding the same and the same and the same and the same Mob Populations over and over and over and over and over again for countless Hours - until the Brain-Cells of the Players feel like they have rotted into Oblivion or being fried until nothing is left.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
But i pray and hope this game is NOT becoming casual friendly.
This is an MMO. If you wanna "compete" against other people to be first to anything in an MMO you are playing the wrong game. And MMO you spend time in, To engage with other people. You dont have to push yourself to the limit everytime you play. Sometimes its just enough to be out in the world and chill. You wont miss anything. There will always be people that will be far ahead from where you are in the game.
Do what YOU want to do, Farm for 1h? do it. Craft for 1h, Do it. Dont have mats to do both? Welcome to the MMO part of the game. Its a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. Things will and should take a long time.
This mentality off " i am gonna play an MMO and reach the end-game in about 3ish month if i play 3h hours a day is just (sigh) for me at this poiint. In the good old days, It took 5h to reach lvl 10. Month to reach lvl 30 and a year + to be max lvl and that is without having tier +1 gear in everything you had on you.
Just play it, relax and have fun. Farm for 1h then log off, Do some mob farming or dungeon farm and log off. This is no theme-park mmo where the game hold your hand or rather it should not be like that (imo) and if it becomes just an other WoW clone i am done already.
So not to repeat what other ppl already said but not EVERY mmo need to be for you and that is ok.
And this, sry hard words incoming: BULLSHIT that "MMO,s need to be for casual ppl". Because people work and have families and school etc. News flash my friend: Back in the L2 days. People worked/had school / families also and L2 was STILL one of the most beloved and most popular mmos of its age back then.
Why? Its eazy. The mentality about HOW you played an MMO changed when WOW released.
There were 10k on one server (L2 Extreme) and those were mostly active ppl playing.
So this, people need casual mmos or they are dead is just .... annoying at this point.