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Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
The State of PvP "petition" (Or lack of)
Aeacus
Member, Alpha Two
📜Petition: Rework Dynamic PvP Zones, Flagging, and Corruption to Retain PvP Players
To Steven Sharif and the Intrepid Studios Team,
As committed supporters of your vision for a player-driven, PvX MMO, we’re writing this petition out of concern for the current PvP experience — particularly regarding dynamic PvP zones, the flagging/corruption system, and the overall balance between PvE and PvP in the current phase of testing.
While we respect that development is ongoing, the current implementation of these systems is actively discouraging healthy PvP play and alienating the PvP community.
⚔️ Core Problems: PvP Experience is Undermined
Dynamic PvP Zones Are Underutilized and Imbalanced
These zones were one of the most exciting promises of AoC, but they currently lack incentives and variety. After the early leveling rush, they’ve gone quiet and irrelevant.
In early testing, guilds like “Polar” dominated zones like Oakbane, killing lowbies to control farming. While technically within PvP rules, it blurred the line between open-PvP and griefing/bullying.
At least back then there was reason for PvP. Now, there’s little purpose for players to engage in these zones.
Flagging Should Be Automatic in PvP Zones
Entering a dynamic PvP zone should automatically flag players and mounts — no need to “flag up.”
Manual flag toggling in these zones is redundant, clunky, and leads to awkward moments like using “Alt + F” just to function in a contested area. If it’s a PvP zone, then commit to it — flag everyone, period.
Corruption Punishes Legitimate PvP
Killing a player and their mount inside a PvP zone triggered corruption in at least one reported case. This contradicts the purpose of dynamic PvP zones and punishes players for doing what the zone was designed to encourage.
Corruption should not apply within designated PvP areas, especially when the combat is mutual and location-based.
The Game is Drifting Toward PvE-Only
With little PvP incentive or meaningful risk-reward in place, Ashes currently feels like PvE-Farmville — a game more about gathering and crafting than conflict.
This design shift risks alienating PvP players who were drawn to Ashes for its promised conflict-driven world.
✅ Proposed Solutions to Restore PvP Engagement
More PvP Zones, Everywhere
Every biome should have multiple dynamic PvP zones accessible at all times, giving players a choice in where to engage — not just a single hotspot or POI.
Automatic Flagging
All players and mounts should be auto-flagged upon entering any dynamic PvP zone.
Remove manual flagging in these zones entirely. If you enter, you’re in.
Reward Meaningful PvP Participation
Increased XP for PvE inside PvP zones (mob grinding should help leveling at a faster rate).
Improved drop rates — not a minor bump like 10%, but a significant increase (e.g., 50%) to loot luck for white and green gear tiers.
Farmed gear should be lootable, but:
Looted whites/greens from PvP zones should not be temperable or ascendable.
This preserves the value of crafted gear (heroic, epic, legendary), while letting PvPers gear up efficiently within their own risk-reward system.
Gathering Incentives in PvP Zones
All materials gathered in PvP zones should always drop with color-graded tiers — no more trash-tier gathering.
This makes dynamic PvP zones the go-to destination for players seeking rare or high-quality materials, creating natural conflict.
Balance and Fairness
PvP players need reasons to enter these zones — not just for combat, but for XP, materials, and gear progression.
By adding value to the zone, you give players a real choice: take the risk, reap the rewards.
🗣️ A Message from the Community
“Give us real reasons to enter the zone — not just to fight, but to thrive.”
If you build the conflict, we will come — but we need more than just the promise of PvP. Give us reason. Give us risk. Give us reward.
Signed,
Concerned PvP players of Verra
💬 Let’s keep this petition alive — bump it, comment, and share your experiences. This is how we make PvP in Ashes of Creation live up to its full potential.
To Steven Sharif and the Intrepid Studios Team,
As committed supporters of your vision for a player-driven, PvX MMO, we’re writing this petition out of concern for the current PvP experience — particularly regarding dynamic PvP zones, the flagging/corruption system, and the overall balance between PvE and PvP in the current phase of testing.
While we respect that development is ongoing, the current implementation of these systems is actively discouraging healthy PvP play and alienating the PvP community.
⚔️ Core Problems: PvP Experience is Undermined
Dynamic PvP Zones Are Underutilized and Imbalanced
These zones were one of the most exciting promises of AoC, but they currently lack incentives and variety. After the early leveling rush, they’ve gone quiet and irrelevant.
In early testing, guilds like “Polar” dominated zones like Oakbane, killing lowbies to control farming. While technically within PvP rules, it blurred the line between open-PvP and griefing/bullying.
At least back then there was reason for PvP. Now, there’s little purpose for players to engage in these zones.
Flagging Should Be Automatic in PvP Zones
Entering a dynamic PvP zone should automatically flag players and mounts — no need to “flag up.”
Manual flag toggling in these zones is redundant, clunky, and leads to awkward moments like using “Alt + F” just to function in a contested area. If it’s a PvP zone, then commit to it — flag everyone, period.
Corruption Punishes Legitimate PvP
Killing a player and their mount inside a PvP zone triggered corruption in at least one reported case. This contradicts the purpose of dynamic PvP zones and punishes players for doing what the zone was designed to encourage.
Corruption should not apply within designated PvP areas, especially when the combat is mutual and location-based.
The Game is Drifting Toward PvE-Only
With little PvP incentive or meaningful risk-reward in place, Ashes currently feels like PvE-Farmville — a game more about gathering and crafting than conflict.
This design shift risks alienating PvP players who were drawn to Ashes for its promised conflict-driven world.
✅ Proposed Solutions to Restore PvP Engagement
More PvP Zones, Everywhere
Every biome should have multiple dynamic PvP zones accessible at all times, giving players a choice in where to engage — not just a single hotspot or POI.
Automatic Flagging
All players and mounts should be auto-flagged upon entering any dynamic PvP zone.
Remove manual flagging in these zones entirely. If you enter, you’re in.
Reward Meaningful PvP Participation
Increased XP for PvE inside PvP zones (mob grinding should help leveling at a faster rate).
Improved drop rates — not a minor bump like 10%, but a significant increase (e.g., 50%) to loot luck for white and green gear tiers.
Farmed gear should be lootable, but:
Looted whites/greens from PvP zones should not be temperable or ascendable.
This preserves the value of crafted gear (heroic, epic, legendary), while letting PvPers gear up efficiently within their own risk-reward system.
Gathering Incentives in PvP Zones
All materials gathered in PvP zones should always drop with color-graded tiers — no more trash-tier gathering.
This makes dynamic PvP zones the go-to destination for players seeking rare or high-quality materials, creating natural conflict.
Balance and Fairness
PvP players need reasons to enter these zones — not just for combat, but for XP, materials, and gear progression.
By adding value to the zone, you give players a real choice: take the risk, reap the rewards.
🗣️ A Message from the Community
“Give us real reasons to enter the zone — not just to fight, but to thrive.”
If you build the conflict, we will come — but we need more than just the promise of PvP. Give us reason. Give us risk. Give us reward.
Signed,
Concerned PvP players of Verra
💬 Let’s keep this petition alive — bump it, comment, and share your experiences. This is how we make PvP in Ashes of Creation live up to its full potential.
3
Comments
Please take considerable care when reading Aecus' petition. As someone whose enjoyment of MMO's includes a healthy dose of PvP within the right system... AoC's system currently sucks. Listen to Aecus' suggestions. They mirror my thoughts for a healthy system.
Please BUMP so we can get this done ASAP before the PVP of this game dies.
Signed
You do realize that your suggestions will alienate the rest of an already-dwindling number of non-pvpers, right?
You literally admit that a strong group of players, who have higher progress than others, pretty much grief everyone else in the pvp zone, as long as it's worth it to them. And then you go on to ask for even more zones and for them to be even more beneficial to such groups. You're literally inviting endless griefing into the game
I completely agree with the points of proper auto-flag and no corruption in these zones though. This must be a bug right now, cause if not - ooooooh boi, econ design is not the only weak part of Intrepid's work.
The flagging is not a bug. PvE'ers complained that they were accidentally attacking people and needed more safeguards. It used to be a toggle button. On/Off.. That wasn't even enough.
Why do you refer to people who like PvP and are clearly not getting any of it in a game that advertises it children? The man has a legitimate complaint and is using a constructive way to express it and here you come to try and shit all over him. Who's the child?
I wasn't referring to them as children. I was just referencing the "think of the children" phrase, that people like to use to push something barely related to children.
And it's their own fault for not experiencing pvp. There's a shitton of systems for them to pvp in, but they want MOREEE. Endlessly more.
Literally any player could just go to the lawless zone and make a challenge to anyone else in global chat to come and kill him. You can attack anyone you see to keep yourself permanently flagged. You can run caravans through the most populated locations. You can wardec others (unless they completely removed that already?).
But these people don't want PVP. They want to be able to murder anyone they want for free WHILE getting bigger rewards. I.e. POLAR griefing everyone in lawless zones.
Here's me PvXing in 2.5 (or whatever the phase was in July)
People fought back just fine WITHOUT LAWLESS ZONES, as long as they feel that the interaction is fair to them. A lawless zone where the enemy can immediately CC you, do half of your hp in 0.5 a second and keep whaling on you because they're not afraid of killing you - will never be fair to the target. So why would people place themselves into those situations?
Also, I agreed with 2 of his points, because, despite my absolute hatred of this bs system - I still want it to at least be implemented correctly, so that people can see that even with it WORKING WELL - it's still shit.
I doesn't sound like you've even played this phase. All of those ways to PvP you mentioned provide ZERO incentive for winning or losing. It's even worse this phase.
In your video if they didn't fight back they could come there with all their friends and circle jerk the mobs and there isn't shit you can do about it. You can bring your friends and share in the circle jerk and see who gets the first swing on the mobs you want. Try going to get highly sought after drops and watch people just look at you like your stupid when you flag up on them. Ever go red a few times trying to defend your area while the PvE'rs laugh and jump you and take all your weeks worth of hard earned gear? Have you crafted a weapon that costs 600 zinc this phase and gone red?
Us PvPers want meaningful combat. I don't care to grief you over and over in noob land. I also don't want an arena. I want an area that you can decide to come into or not with potential for high rewards. In the end if there isnt meaningful PvP we can all sit around with our pretty gear and talk about how were gonna glitch the next big boss mob the put in the game. BORING.
Healthy PvP is good for everyone. Healthy PvE is too. It shouldn't be one group vs the other. We should both want a game with a vast amount of options to enjoy gaming. Right now, its a full time job to get gear and when you get the gear you just reroll and do it all over again or post it in chat to show everyone how pretty your meaningless gear is.
You watched the video, so you might've seen the dude that didn't understand the flagging mechanic and didn't flag up even though he was trying to fight back - all to have been killed by a random wolf.
I did this to completely passive players in L2 and I did it w/o visible hp. After 1-2 such moves the competitor would either leave or flag up - in either case it'd be more pvx content for me.
Afaik we still only drop equipped gear, rather than everything that's in our entire inventory, so there's another abuse of this system by just unequipping your gear, having only the start weapon on you and PKing the fool that doesn't fight back. Obviously this requires friends with you, but you yourself said that having friends is a viable approach (which it is). If anything, attacking that passive player with the starter weapon would only make it easier to properly control their HP, so there'd be a higher chance that the mob gets them.
But yes, I haven't played this phase because game's performance became even worse for me, and as you can see in that video - I was already playing at barely 10fps.
And another yes, I too want more good pvx in the game. And there's several already implemented systems in the game that can provide that pvx, once they're finished. Lawless zones is not one of those systems, because lawless zones is just a PKing circle. There won't be any fairness in those circles from majority of the people that go there, because everyone will just think "if I don't murder him first, he'll definitely get me".
The entire thought process of "lawless zones should have the best loot in the game, because that's the only way to promote pvp" is backwards. Good loot is already a reason to pvp. The issue right now is that we do not have good loot (and btw I don't mean full gear from normal mobs, because I hate those too
And when people actually have something to fight over - they'll fight over it, lawless zone or not.
No offense but it sounds like you haven't played any high level competitive gameplay.
Again, this seems like all theory crafting you've done. I've had a character who was my red character. After so much blight it takes more than one death to clear corruption which eventually leads to huge amounts of xp debt which leads to huge amounts of reduced stats which means you aren't killing shit with your noob weapons and you have to grind it all off to progress in levels. You aren't aren't killing anyone higher level with your noob gear on anyway. You're talking about low level shit gameplay.
Do you even play this game? Your comments would lead people to believe you played one of the previous versions and not the latest.... You sound like you have no clue about how the game is now,,,,
So you agree with him but are still an a-hole...
ahhhh you are a streamer... that explains it....
Death penalty based stat dampening maxxes out at 20% (unless they changed it). And PKing a person doesn't take any effort, especially if your character is high enough in lvls and is the proper archetype.
And, as I already said, you don't even need to PK someone to remove them from the location. Burn their mana through constant harassment and they won't be able to sustain the same lvl of mob farming as your group, or they'll even die to mobs if they're not careful.
And none of what I'm talking about is theory crafting. It's all something that's been done for literally 2 decades in L2.
Adding more lawless zones won't change shit. You'll still only have the griefing POLAR-likes that dominate those locations and pretty much everyone else that doesn't even go to those zones because they don't want to be dominated. The design needs to change from the other end instead.
If you read my comments, you'll see the answer to your question, because my comments not just lead people somewhere, but straight out say it.
I agree that bugs need to be fixed. Again, if you had read my comments, you'd know that.
Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about, lol.. I dont care how long you played L2. I played L2 in Korean beta when you were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye, had 999 Karma..
Would Ashes PvP players settle for the following situation?
"PvE players go to difficult PvE content and get X progression, the best also get Y."
"PvP players go to difficult PvX content and win or lose get X progression, and the winning Side also gets Y."
This is working out well for me so far in the game I'm playing but I wonder if that would be enough for people who main Ashes.
“Give us real reasons to enter the zone — not just to fight, but to thrive.”
If you build the conflict, we will come — but we need more than just the promise of PvP. Give us reason. Give us risk. Give us reward.
These statements seem PVP oriented, but essentially if one player base falls.... they both do as the game will not survive.
And it has already lost majority of its pve players. And those players won't come back if the only thing the game has are lawless zones.
And all the supposed pvpers refuse to fight back, right? Isn't that the argument for lawless zones? All the supposed pvpers, who are supposedly farming all the pve (as you say yourself they would), are refusing to fight back when flagged upon. Or maybe they are not even flagging up in the first place.
So seems like the issue is not lawless zones or lack of pvp. It's the lack of proper content and weak will of the "pvpers".
Case in point
Harbingers will be a yet another proof of this. You'll get your permanent lawless zones with the best loot in the game. But no one will be there. You can remember this tweet
Dude, its post like this that are making us say you don't know what you're talking about. Caravans aren't the same this phase, flagging isn't the same this phase, lawless zones aren't the same this phase.... It's like you're talking about a completely different game. CLUELESS..
Afaik you can still run caravans and people can still sign up to attack or defend. Flagging is still available and I've heard people say it's even too easy to accidentally flag up (I flagged up on a few people at the start of P3, even with my 5fps gameplay). Lawless zones still allow you to kill others, be it with a few bugs that should definitely have been fixed a long time ago.
So what's stopping pvpers from pvping? Cause if it's rewards from all of those things - that's not a pvp issue, as I've already said. It's an overarching design issue.
You said you maxxed out your karma in L2 beta, right. Why did you PK people there? Was it for the tiniest chance to drop a full piece of gear from some random mob? Was it over a boss? Or was it just to PK them and/or over a farming spot? And if it's the last one then what's stopping you from doing the same in Ashes? You would've lost roughly the same amount of time-progress in L2, especially considering how truly grindy that version of the game was as compared to current Ashes.
All I've seen "pvpers" asking for is bigger rewards for murdering people w/o consequences. Here's another question. If no one comes to the lawless zone, it'd just be pve, right? But it'd be pve with better rewards. So why do you ask for lawless zones instead of just better pve with better rewards? Cause to me it sure always sounds like "well, if another person does come here, I want to be able to murder them immediately, cause if I can't - they gonna still my mobs by hiding behind the corruption system".
Oh, and just to add better context for my statements, cause I don't think I've given it to any of yall in this thread (outside of Azherae). I DO WANT MORE PVP. I want laxer corruption balancing. I want PKing to not fuck you over on the first kill you do. I want much better designs for wars/caravans/pvp events - all of which should have a single death penalty of "gear decays a bit" (as it was promised to be in the past). And lately I've been leaning towards the design of "only BH should be able to attack/kill a PKer".
I simply don't want the shittiest, laziest, most basic-ass design of "this is a pvp zone, go murder people". All because I spent years in L2 w/o those, but I pvped on the daily basis and often for god damn hours.
HAHAHA... riggghhhttt...
How about play the game... FFS
Thats what you gathered from the proposals listed? OMG
Flagging is still available and I've heard people say it's even too easy to accidentally flag up
Your own admission, and as previously said, you don't play.. so move to Minecraft on son
I've also seen pvp videos from dudes playing in P3 and, there, random gatherers flagged up several times against the attacker yet were immediately running away, which, to me, indicates that they weren't planning on fighting back and simply flagged up accidentaly. I've heard/read as much from other people's feedback about P3.
So instead of dodging my questions, just tell me what you think is so different in this phase.
No, that's what I've gathered throughout 5 years of listening to people's feedback and requests for this game. And both, the pve and the pvp, sides have suggested asinine bullshit. Both have behaved like babies to the smallest inconveniences and both have left the game in droves, because the game is not ready for either side of the spectrum (well, for no side of it tbh, it's just not fucking ready at all).
Here's me flagging up in the first hours of P3, though accidentally
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxzLHY6QIGLCGtROyBxJIZp_QSj_QSEhqA?si=eqaqf9IWVUVoQT15
And here's me accidentally flagging up due to dumb action mode targeting, but then just pvping either way, cause I might as well. And then another person joins in willingly.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxBVk85tY0DWRYx4dRidJb-b7Vw1W0VLrO?si=0DgoT5Vrvy9RmQrc
So I ask again, what's stopping these so called pvpers from doing exactly this? Did Intrepid turn off flagging and I missed it in the patchnotes? Or is it still all the case of "pvpers" being pussies and not actually fighting over content?
So I ask again, what's stopping these so called pvpers from doing exactly this? Did Intrepid turn off flagging and I missed it in the patchnotes? Or is it still all the case of "pvpers" being pussies and not actually fighting over content?
You kiss your mother with that mouth?