Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
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Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Because I worry really often about communities that react to things they don't have interest in as if those things are flawed for people outside them too. Comes from the living through the period of tribalism that destroyed the Fighting Game market when I was young.
I took Dygz's comment to be about the fact that Ashes has taken too long to get its product out. Those other games may not have the things Ashes has promised right now but if I was looking at the market for an MMORPG to play (obv I am not but it'll make sense in a moment), why would I put faith in a game that I can't enjoy much right now because it's broken, over one that I can enjoy now, if both games need to add the same features?
You'd do what Dygz implied. Play what you already have.
Unless of course someone or something convinced you that the game wasn't good based on limited information...
Which is exactly what this thread is 'really about' in the end. The number of people who are going to react to Ashes based on limited/old information or preconceptions, once it hits Steam.
Ashes should be released by now. It's been 10 years pretty much. That's a long time. But the game will be very feature rich, more ambitious than others. And I think they're having issues with the server meshing, and the performance of dynamic assets use to build the settlements.
I still fall back on if it's a good game people will play it. I don't think it'll replace other mmorpgs, but it'll draw some players from those games (WoW, FFXIV, T&L, whatever), and it'll also bring others back to the genre that have been waiting for something like L2 or AA.
Misinformation and negative sentiment spreads faster than news about new features, fixed implementations, or cool tidbits.
If this game becomes known for being tedious and unfun due to weird behavioural test configurations or inefficient implementations, or worst of all, lack of quests (because it is designed around large group play but can't maintain those groups and therefore requires PvE questing to prop it up), that stigma won't go away.
If all it ends up 'selling' to the masses for the next quarter is 'you can PvP and your opponents really feel the pain when you beat them!' that's what it will be stuck with for years.
There is if you include the wider market. But when your market is people who want hardcore PvP in a GvG in the open world. That is about as niche as you can get. If this game just went for PvP focus and had Instanced balanced PvP along with OWPvP events and Guild stuff it would do well, maybe pull in 3-5 million players at its peak.
The problem with this is that is not based on the game its based on the marketing for the game. Its being marketed as a PvX, with an emphasis on PvP game. its a PvX, with an emphasis on GvG game. There is a huge difference. Not to mention adds that say 64 classes when in actually there are 64 sub-classes. On top of that most people don't have rigs that can handle 400 people spamming abilities trying to kill each other.
Yeah that's what I'm worried about, an over focus on gvg. And just to make myself clear, gvg is great in it's own right and always had a place in Ashes and always should. But I'm hoping node citizenship and the whole node system will act like a pseudo faction and really open up actually being able to pvx to a wider base.
But there's so much more. So many things that just directly benefit zerging and being a zerg. Not even worth listing it all out. It's almost everything.
Probably my biggest misread when I started following this game was that Steven isn't a pvper. He's not some kind of pve connoisseur. He might have some kind of affiliation to those things. But at his core, he's a mega guilder. And it shows. And that's fine. I just hope he see's that you can keep many of the more megaguildy type features and mechanics, without crapping on the rest of your playerbase. And in my opinion, it's better for all involved, including the megaguilders. Creates a healthier, more competitive game.
You cant "code out" some of the inherent advantages mega guilds will have in a game like this. What you can do though, is not make design decisions that make it worse.
Agreed. What worries me is that by doing that they will make the Megaguilds too strong so fast that they will crush even the closest competition. which will then destroy any and all PvP.
That's one of the biggest things about PvP you need a reset at some point or one Group/Individual will get an insane amount of resources and they just crush everyone else.
Its why any decent PvP game ALWAYS does rounds. LoL resets after every game, every FPS ever that is multiplayer does rounds. They are instanced self contained which isn't in this game at all.
Which means at some point there will be no one to PvP against which is laughable. A PvP focused game with no PvP because the game designers didn't think the systems through at all.
There is an argument to make that Steven saw the issue of guilds that you are talking about here, but I don't buy it, as it would go against every other thing he has done to Ashes.
Even if his reasoning for it was to curb more powerful guilds, the fact that he seems totally oblivios that actual real people that are not being paid to be in a given guild will always put relationships with other gamers that are many years old, span multiple games and where others can only enter in to via invitation usually based at least in part on personalities will literally always be more important to people than a society of people that has no membership barrier, is temporary by the design of the game and is based on an in game advantage the plaer may recieve rather than joining others that are likeminded. I can't speak to how Steven played L2, but I can speak somewhat to how he played AA.
For the most part, he wasn't interested in playing the game, he was interested in directing others in how they should must play the game. If you were in his guild, you were expewcted to do what he wanted, when he wanted you to do it. If you had some land, that was now his to do with as he saw fit.
People put up with it though, because if you were "loyal" enough, there was a chance he may just keep your subscription paid for you - or give you a job on a future MMORPG that he was thinking about (a number of the original staff from Intrepid were guild members of his from AA, make of that what you will).
So, as I have said for years, and people have argued against me for just as long, Ashes is a game that is designed to be played only from the top down. If you are not in the position Steven was in when playing AA, Ashes is going to be a miserable game for you.
If you insist on playing it, best find yourself a rich benefactor so at least you don't need to pay - you'll be under someones thumb regardless.
Go away with your store. Use a sub. Moment you could buy mounts in wow it went to sjit also
There will be both. They've already shown some of the cool designs that you can earn in-game. It's not going to be purely Buy-Only.
I'm okay with that. I'd even be okay with the in-game "only" assets being sold on the cash shop for $1,000. The whales are going to get the item anyways, might as well funnel the revenue to the game studio. I tune out as soon as there's any pay for power, time, convenance , ect.
My opinion.
Cash shop = trash shop
Not for me.
I hope this isn't the case. But yeah it's leaning that way. Last thing I want or need is someone telling what to do, when, and how on my free time. Sure way to kill any joy.
I do hope that the small guilds (100 or so, which used to be a large guild...) is still viable with competing for all content.
1: Dungeons and Raids as the only Endgame loops.
2: Static quests and regions that never change - Fippy Darkpaw always respawning regardless of how many times you kill him.
3: Dev-created cities that can never be destroyed.
As of Dragonflight (2022), WoW has added new "Endgame" loops that I enjoy way better than repeating Dungeons and Raids. Housing in Midnight also looks like it's a lot of fun and probably easier to obtain and decorate than Freeholds in Ashes.
Most of the games I play, including New World and Blue Protocol, now have Seasonal updates which offer enough change that I don't feel stuck doing the same old stuff for a year or more while I wait for new story.
By the time I complete a Season in one game, two or more of the other games I enjoy have released a new Season.
Already, I don't have enough time to play the games I'm enjoying. Prior to 2022, I really didn't have any MMOs I enjoyed playing. Now I have 6 games I'm trying to play - and I can't play them all.
Many of the games I'm now playing have houses I can build on my own (with a potential of being attacked and destroyed): Nightingale, No Man's Sky, LEGO Fortnite...
I no longer need to rely on Ashes to introduce that and... that also means I don't have to endure the compromise of Ashes' PvP/Corruption/Risk v Reward system.
I think Throne and Liberty already have Sieges.
Ashes' Sieges are not going to be particularly mind-blowing for the MMORPG genre.
If you love PvP, Caravans and Crates might be fun, but... tons of people who were looking for the next captivating MMORPG in 2017 will already be immersed in other games - especially those who were only willing to compromise with Ashes' "PvX/Risk v Reward" because it was going to be the only viable option Before 2020.
And, I would probably prefer to have 100 v 100 Sieges rather than 500 v 500 in any case.
This is not the game for you. Ashes already has one of the biggest cash shops in an MMO, and it's barely in alpha. Everything is cosmetic, to be fair. There is no p2w. If Intrepid ever introduces p2w or pay for convenience then this game is dead.
I do agree with you on cosmetics. There are soo many different cosmetics in games now that nothing looks special. And when I see hardcore steampunk, furry, or **** in a classic fantasy game then I know the developers have lost their way and are just seeking cash.
IS hasn't done that... have they?
Welcome to gaming discourse, I guess?
On that note Intrepid I don't intend to play Tulnar but they better look at least as good as Zarus.
Not that I can see with the character models, yet. Although, some of the mounts are borderline.
The Tulnar are an entire race geared to Furries. WTF are you on about
Yes, but they could actually do 64 sub classes. It is literally impossible to do 64 classes especially when the only things they are going to be changing are passive changes like damage damage type and animations.
Right now the game as advertised and the game as intended are two completely different things. Which is a recipe for disaster.
Maybe. The goat concept art does look anthropomorphic though. The other two not as much, I guess one is a cow type and the other is a lizard type. So maybe. Either way it's not in yet so I'll wait and see how 'furry' it is. As long as it's not like we're running around in Zootopia it should be alright.
Nah. There've been cat/goat/cow/lizard like characters since DnD and even way further back. Furry to me is when they hypersexualize it and I'm not seeing that in the art, yet. if anything, they're making the characters look purposely ugly, plain, and neutral.
Edit: I'm all for hypersexualizing humans/elves and even dwarves (ew), for the record. But when artists hypersexualize animals, well, that's furry.
Flashbacks to Tera.
As far as I know the augments are going to be much more varried that this. Some will be what you are talking about but some should be big differences. Also talk about getting bombed if the augments fail to deliver some big review bombing will be incoming. Not that it has to be a first try thing thats why we are in alpha.
Yeah I've heard some of the stories. Glad I wasn't on his server haha. I don't wanna hate on people's playstyle too much, people can play how they want. But yeah, glad I wasn't there.
Yeah. I personally wouldn't call it miserable, there's still plenty of fun to be had. But it could be so much better. The top down dynamic isn't going to change. It's just a question of how far on the pendulum you swing it to that direction. I think it can be swung away from it some, while still maintaining that mega guilds and mega alliances are pretty dominant entities, and compete against each other, as Ashes' vision is.
In other words, you can take the proverbial mega guild foot off the neck of the rest of the player base by say, 10, 20%. And megaguilds are still gonna megaguild. They'll still do their thing. But it'd really open up the rest of the player base to be able to compete more and feel more relevant in the game.
I haven't been playing the PTR, will probably jump in soon to see. But I've heard some things that make me think Intrepid is maybe swinging the pendulum a little in the direction of the average player and smaller guilds etc. I dunno, we'll see.
No the game as intended is a GvG PvX game. The game being advertised is a PvP PvX game. Those are two very different things.
A PvP focused game would have Instanced PvP. This game does no and has not plan to.
A PvP focused game would have balanced Arenas. This game does no and has not plan to.
A PvP focused game would have Classes balanced to each other. This game does not and has no plan to.
A PvP focused game would have Gear progression based on PvP. This game does no and has not plan to.
A PvP focused game would have Character Progression based on PvP. This game does no and has not plan to.
On top of that the game advertises itself as having 64 CLASSES when it has 64 SUB-CLASSES which again are two very different things. People are going to be annoyed at the bare minimum.
Arenas are instanced PvP scenarios and are not part of open world PvP.[2][3][4]
This one's true.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas#PvP_seasons
Gear enhancement rewards.[24]
One could argue that this is not a direct gear progression, but once you hit a cap on some gear build - this is the only way to progress higher and pvp will be one of the ways you can do that.
Do you mean "gain xp through pvp" here or something else? Cause imo getting better gear IS a part of character progression, because it progresses my character, but if you do mean purely XP rewards then, yes, there's no such thing.
Although we have literally 0 fucking information about the BH system rewards and could definitely foresee there being quests or even just commissions of "hunt some PKers" that would reward some xp.
What exactly do you see as a class vs a sub-class here? Is it someone who fits a different role? Someone who has purely different abilities? Something else?
We still have 0 clue about all the potential augments and we have all the promises in the world from Steven, but those don't mean shit, as we've learned, so it's difficult to say either way.
The closest thing we know in regard to abilities is that the core abilities will remain the same of your archetype, so if you define a class purely by its skillset then, yes, the game will only have 8 "classes".
Though at that point I'd be curious to know what game doesn't have classes where one does a "green dot", while another does a "red dot", especially in games with more classes than, say, 10.
They are not. Think about all the ways you can actually change an ability
Single Target or AoE
Ranged or Melee
Damage Type
That's it that all of them. There are only so many ways you can modify a skill. At least in a meaningful play altering way. Which is the difference between a Class and a sub class.
On top of that not all of the abilities are changing IIRC about 10 of the abilities are supposed to change. Which means most of your kit will remain unchanged.
Even that puny example already changes your approach to the ability, cause now it's not just an initiation tool, but a dodge tool, an escape tool and potentially even a confusion tool, cause quite often people lose themselves a bit if they overrely on targeting and then lose it for a second.
And your list doesn't include targeting changes, combo changes (i.e. "this ability now triggers off of basic attacks of other players rather than yours'), effect changes (dmg to heal or buff or dot or anything else), hell if Steven actually led his devs work I bet we could even get resource changes on abilities which would change your entire gameplay.
I'm not saying any of that will actually happen, cause it sure as fuck is obvious that the game's been simplifying rather than becoming more complex, but right now it's neither nor. We simply don't know what it could be, but the potential is waaaaay higher than what you claim it is.