I'm withholding commentary/discussion in general until/in case we get any clarification or expansion on why they showed off this one.
In my arrogance, I believe you value my input/opinion enough that you might care to know why I'm not engaging with this thread.
glhf.
Totally undewherstandable and definitely hope we get some sort of clarification on the "scale" of this boss. I'd assume they showed this one off because they don't have better AI for a more complex boss, but as you said in the feedback thread - they might've as well just brushed up the Twins and showed them off again. This was definitely a very "I dunno how exactly to react" kind of stream.
And with the announcement of alpha2 sales closing soon I'm now really doubting myself whether I wanna buy in before it does or whether I just wait till the release. Things are getting complicated, especially cause I see this sales closing in a really negative light, due to my own pessimism and jadedness.
Yeah, I wanted to buy it as close to the release of alpha2 as possible, but guess I'll have to settle for the last minute of sales My jaded cynic side is very sus of this change, but my logic side can understand why it was made.
I'll share some of my thoughts and feelings about the Cyclops combat preview and world bosses in general. This is from the perspective of mainly casual solo MMO enjoyer.
Cyclops encounter itself:
Mechanics seemed pretty simple to understand and execute. If we look this as an isolated PVE encounter, I feel like you could jump in blind with a random group and manage the encounter pretty comfortably, even as relatively inexperienced player. So that means that the encounter as it was shown, was maybe a bit too easy, but that's at least partly just a balance issue, which probably shouldn't be focused on yet, but I'll comment on it nevertheless.
I think the Cyclops' attacks should be more punishing, especially the avoidable ones. And in general if you mess up a mechanic, it should be more punishing. In the showcase non-tanks face tanked the Cyclops' avoidable attacks without much of an issue; with just a slight dent on their HP bars. The consequences of messing up should be more significant than what was shown on the showcase. Again, this is partly just a balance issue which will surely be focused on later, but also an encounter design issue, which is something that I'm not really qualified to comment on. There are other more qualified community members that have already shared some great ideas on that issue.
What introductive encounter like this should include:
You should early on introduce players to the main mechanics that are relevant in these kind of encounters. This should include mechanics relevant to the trinity (which was already done pretty well on a surface level), core combat components whatever they end up to be, like active block, dodge or other movement abilities, interrupts, cleanses or whatever. (Doug the tank said that he had to active block some attacks that otherwise would have been devastating. On the other hand players face tanked some attacks without an issue that could have been avoided with movement abilities, again make it more punishing). Also include mechanics relevant to roles, archetypes, PvX elements, etc.
I think it was Doug who said that the Cyclops was designed very early on, when the archetype and combat designs were on very early phases, so I can imagine that this could have some kind of an effect when designing the encounter. So when archetype and combat designs are in better shape, I think we can expect this Cyclops and other encounters to be in better shape as well.
World bosses in general:
I think it's very important to have world bosses like this that have more randomized spawn locations and times. This creates progression paths for guilds and players who can't compete with the top guilds and players who control the prime resource spots and locations. For some it could be the most effective way for progression to travel the lands and look for these world bosses and it would also reward exploring and enhance the traveling. So yeah, I'm all for some very randomized world boss spawns, that could spawn anywhere inside a certain node, biome or even across multiple biomes. Of course rewards need to be balanced accordingly, and the most rewarding encounters should probably be less random and more controllable.
It's utterly nuts to me that there are people who are considering buying into Alpha 2 for any other reason than being super excited to test the systems, give feedback and essentially help Intrepid out. If anybody is on the fence about this in any way (or $250 is a meaningful amount of money to you) then why on earth would you consider buying in? You're not buying the game, so much as a chance to be a part of a testing group. If you are not 100% sure that you would want to be a part of that then 100% do not buy Alpha 2 and wait for the game to actually launch to play which will cost you $20.
It's utterly nuts to me that there are people who are considering buying into Alpha 2 for any other reason than being super excited to test the systems, give feedback and essentially help Intrepid out. If anybody is on the fence about this in any way (or $250 is a meaningful amount of money to you) then why on earth would you consider buying in? You're not buying the game, so much as a chance to be a part of a testing group. If you are not 100% sure that you would want to be a part of that then 100% do not buy Alpha 2 and wait for the game to actually launch to play which will cost you $20.
It's exactly the fact that I'm very excited to test it and give all my feedback based on that. But $250 is a considerable amount and I wanted to spend it when I knew for sure that alpha2 is about to happen (considering that we've had a delay with alpha1). I'll most likely buy in and then just sweat and worry about it until alpha2 comes
I think the overall look and feel of the raid boss was good. I like the different ideas on the boss' abilities like his heal and that even the mushrooms dropped were healing players. I saw someone mention that they like that the ground wasn't littered with projections of where effects would take place and I agree. I like needing to have more awareness of what's going on.
I am also a huge fan of fights that are more controlled, not necessarily just DPS races. I feel like there is a time and a place for DPS races, but so many boss fights in games are just to beat them as fast as possible. Multiple phase fights that require more coordination feel better beating than just muscling though it.
Two specific raid boss encounters that I absolutely love are Thaurlach in The Rift of Nurz Ghashu and Saruman in Orthanc in Lord of the Rings Online.
Thaurlach was a very long multi-phase fight that you needed to close side rooms, shut of wheels that controlled corrupted water, fight a sub-boss while the main boss was active, unlock the room and go fight the main boss who still had %health phases. Oh, and you need to keep an NPC alive while all of this going on. Super fun and rewarding.
Saruman had multiple phases as well and and if you failed a phase you would roll back to the previous phase and even if you beat the encounter, if you weren't paying attention, you could get knocked off the tower!
I really like the direction the group content is taking so far and look forward to seeing more!
As to your comments about Albion - the game is shit from my perspective, you are illustrating a part of the reason for that.
An open-world sandbox PvX MMORPG successfully kickstarted and made by a small group of passionate developers. If AoC isn't paying attention to a game like Albion and its successes and failures then I think that would be a huge mistake. Just saying X=Shit is useless. It's like me saying wow is shit because it is a bloated 20-year-old Zombie that needs to be put out of everybody's misery. It might be true but it isn't exactly useful information for Ashes development.
Well said, "X is shit" is the most useless statement.
It was OK for a mid level world boss, nothing stood out to me. It's missing the WOW factor that all world bosses should have. There were some mechanics with potential, they just weren't impactful. With a boss of this scale, you really should be able to feel their power when they hit you visually and on your health bar. I can always tell when a boss fight is easy when everyone just stands in the same spot the whole fight spamming the same buttons. There was no real threat. This part was disappointing to me, I'm really tired of seeing tank and spank bosses in games. There was nothing engaging or interactive about this fight. I'm still not seeing the Acton combat part of this "hybrid" system. Players should have to utilize dodge, active block and their defensive or movement skills to avoid lethal damage. Giant creatures should be hitting players a lot harder than that, many of his attacks felt weak like the charge attack and when he was slamming his tree down on people. That should be nearly killing someone if they don't move out of the way and the charge ability should be launching players back. All of this guys attacks including basic ones should knock players back, knock down or knock up. All large enemies should cleave with their attacks in an area around their main target because of how large they are. This would really help with the weightless feel of the attacks as they are now and increase the difficulty that seems to be missing.
Games are much more entertaining when they are challenging and satisfying when you are able to overcome those challenges. This should be a core design philosophy of Ashes if it isn't already. Dumbing down your game to pander to wider audiences/unskilled players just hurts everyone in the end. The success of Elden Ring proved to me that players of all skill levels are still willing to take on that challenge and struggle.
Effects of the raid boss need to be more defined so players can clearly see the area effect of it's abilities. This can be done by improving the current ground effects, dust clouds, Shockwaves, etc. Player abilities looked blurry and out of place such as the barrage of blue projectiles and bouncing/descending rays of light. It looked like they were low quality compared to the character models and environment.
I think for an introductory world boss this Cyclops looks nice. I saw another person ask about harvesting the wood from the cyclops tree weapon. I like that idea, or if a player is an adept Lumberjack they can chop at the tree weapon while its in the "planted in the ground" phase to harvest wooden resources and deal damage at the same time.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
I'm not a big fan of the Cyclops knocking down trees as it walks. Let me elaborate. I like the idea of the Cyclops knocking down trees but I would like said trees to grow back much quicker than if a player chopped down a tree. My thought process is that once this game is released, or Alpha two starts, everyone will be chopping down every tree in sight to get their hands on some wood. The Cyclops is an early game world boss and should be spawned during this initial wave of new players needing to chop every last tree. So can you imagine that a world boss goes unnoticed for a couple hours, or longer because its tough to put a raid party together sometimes, and all these trees that were trying to regrow get knocked down again, only to reset the growth timers. I think in a perfectly balanced Land Management System players would manage how much they take from the land and allow trees to grow; but that's not what's going to happen. You tell thousands of players to wait a couple days to chop down the remaining trees so more can grow and they'll tell you to buzz off as they can't wait even 5 minutes with their limited play time for more trees to grow if there is one staring at them. And why would they wait, how can they trust thousands of other players to NOT cut down the remaining trees in hopes of getting a good Land Management Score. Basically all I'm thinking is have the trees the Cyclops knocks over regrow much faster than a player chopped down tree.
*A side note from this Livestream. The player footprints in the snow did not line up with the player direction. I'm sure this will be fixed but just worth mentioning.
Loving the livestreams, loving the direction of the game, loving the community, hearts out to the entire Intrepid team.
How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
I think for a lvl 30 boss this is perfect. No other game I played in the open world required 15+ players to group for a kill at this low of a level. To me this is what an MMO is about. Showing the player base about how a world boss looks. We don't need to see everything at lvl 30, but a glimpse of what to expect as we level in the world. Also as a player, I want the discovery piece to be alive. I would hope that we do not see more world bosses because discovering mechanics and making strats for fights is one of the most intriguing parts of the pve world.
What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
Since this is lower level, this reminds me of the first time fighting Hogger in WoW. Needed a group to take down and even though the other gnolls in camps weren't "part" of the fight, they still played a factor. I liked the progression in WoW. Going from something simple like Hogger to max level world Dragon bosses with a lot of unique mechanics.
Part of the difficulty with these bosses will be OPEN WORLD. Imagine having a group of 20-30 players attempting to take this down when another group of similar size moves in to pick off your players. This is where the difficulty comes into play and becomes exciting.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
Super pleased and looking forward to testing the game in A2!
As some have stated, I worry about the lack of hybrid combat displayed. I know this is something player driven to switch into, but why is no dev using that style? All PoV (even if it was brief) were not using a hybrid model. It was all tab. If tab is easier/superior why have action combat included? Also having the cleric (healer) PoV just be targeting/clicking raid frames tends to be less engaging.
Overall, I enjoyed it and think the lead designer did a good job for an intro world boss (especially one started before class skills had really been finalized). It gives me hope that AoC will be able to nail group combat without an overwhelming number of visual effects and overly rapid pacing.
As for the cyclops, I think there’s some room to push the mechanics a bit while still staying true to the encounter design and the desire to be the first world boss point for newer players. Most of my suggestions focus on expanding the mushroom mechanic as I think that could be a very memorable, and easy to understand, part of the encounter. A few ideas:
Increase the mushroom spawn rate: This depends on the overall fight pacing and tuning, but similar to the wolf adds, the presence of mushrooms didn't seem to have much impact. Increase the number (even if that means lowering the hp) would make the fight more dynamic.
Allow the Cyclops charge to “detonate” mushrooms: When the cyclops charges over the mushroom the shroom explodes, instantly triggering the effect. This mechanic would force the group to adapt to not being able to burn down the shrooms fast enough.
Add a variety of effects to the mushrooms: Having mushrooms heal nearby players is great, and worth expanding upon. Variable mushroom color could indicate what the mushroom does, like apply a buff or debuff (buffs to the boss, debuffs to the players – goal is to incentivize meaningful movement, positioning, etc.); damage to the players or heals to the boss; summon adds if left alone for X seconds (mushroom can spawn other mushrooms); etc. I like the design it just seems having the mushrooms only heal is a waste of a good mechanic.
Allow the type of mushroom spawn to vary based on the current season (or location) in the biome. Seems like an “easy” way to add variety to the experience. For example, during winter the shrooms could add a slowing effect when one destroys them, or the shrooms could consistently deal AoE cold damage (forcing ranged characters to move, since the shrooms closer to the boss would be more likely to be destroyed by attacks), etc.
Finally, as I mentioned, the wolves could use some love. I don't really have any ideas besides the generic ones -- increase the amount, make them spawn earlier, etc. -- and those all depend on other factors. I would recommend working on the other parts of the fight first, and then taking another look at the role the wolf adds are supposed to fulfill.
Thanks for listening and the fun stream. Best of luck with the encounter!
Fantastic showcase. There is a lot of Nitpicks to through out there but the positives hit the spot.
I also have a question preface.
(Asks)
Since this boss is open world and roaming I assume this could be a PVP Heavy encounter?
Pros:
+ Good mechanic variety. (I would love to see another one where he punts a random nearby person)
+ He felt big and intimidating, Screen shake was great. (More Audio queues?)
NItpicks list:
- Sliding Feet (On player too)
- His model was very contrast to the wintery landscape and was jarring, He should have some alterations for the cold times.
- Tank Buster Slam Needs a bigger Queue, maybe a yell or louder slam or screen shake, and dirt/snow Flying into the air. (Him feeling disconnected from the environment seems to be a reoccurring theme)
- What the heck was up with the player models at 10:50 they are all polygony.
He just felt a little disconnected. Great boss though.
This was a great starter boss showcase. If this is on the simpler side of boss mechanics to get people acclimated to how group play will work, I think it's fantastic. Also, the boss looked cool, had cool animations on some of his moves, and the roaming nature of the boss is sick. A little bit of polishing up and it's a very good fight for a beginner encounter.
I'm interested in the wording of raid boss though. Are the open world bosses going to be called raid bosses and the open world dungeons going to be intrepid's take on a multi boss encounter and play the role of what most people think of when they think of raids AND dungeons? It would be awesome if there were multi boss encounters in the open world as well. For instance, Tumok was baby cyclops, then mom cyclops come out of the forest, followed by dad cyclops after mom is beat.
Since the bosses don't have scaling, I'm worried that the lower-level bosses won't be able to be beat by lower-level people if max level groups have an incentive to try to farm them. I love world bosses having ultra rare drops to try to farm for but if low level bosses are a viable thing to farm at max level, I feel like the boss will insta explode and lower-level players will also explode to high level players AOE's. It would almost make it to where having a low-level boss redundant, because it will be getting farmed by max level groups, to the detriment of low-level players.
Just some thoughts and you guys might already have answered some of these things and I'm just unaware. Either way a great starter boss and very promising for the future of open world bosses.
Merging some relevant threads with great feedback on the stream content into this main one ^_^ carry on!
I rarely interact with feedback threads outside of my main message, but do they often go off-topic? Cause I made a separate thread in order to not muddle the proper feedback with discussions that might not pertain directly to the topic.
But if this way is easier for yalls to report feedback to devs, I guess that's fine.
I liked the combat a LOT more than what I have seen of FFXIV. I really dislike the whole "dance on a kaleidoscope of damage and debuffs amidst a blinding barrage of psychedelic fireworks."
I liked that the fight was not confined to a predetermined stage on the round. I liked how the fight moved around. I liked that you might have to worry about adds, and might have to clear the surrounding area first.
It reminded me of old school raids with lots of characters.
Hi there. Overall looks good, however, even, therefore, this is the first iteration here are a few points I managed to notice.
If I'm not mistaken you tooned down the animation by a lot and from my side this is very welcome, now I don't have the JAP game feeling so much anymore.
I believe that nowadays there could be "more advanced mechanics" to do than the classical "dodge this/move there". I dunno the AoC lore (yet) but assuming Cyclops are giants here as well, so he, in fact, could benefit from giants' racial known traits. I'd like this fight to be more creative and reactive, not just the boss mechanics and suddenly he dies... It's so boring to learn mechanics online step by step just to execute, I mean I know this is probably inevitable for raids where there will be competition between people, but don't put these things on timer or debuffs here, make it crazier with these wildling bosses.
This one could for example randomly pick people near him with less than 25% hp and eat them to renew his own health so melee cares more, healers passively focus on healing melee more, etc. If you make this intense, trust me this will be challenging and more exciting than executing a tutorial from a website.
You also clearly have mechanics for him to interact with the environment, why don't you make him rip up a tree from the ground and use it as a weapon, or rip a piece of a nearby mountain and throw it your way, so the place or weather players decided to attack this creature actually matters as well and unlocks some abilities he wouldn't have elsewhere...
things like that you know, gimme something nowadays tech worthwhile, something new, exciting and dynamic, because that is what a world boss should look like. At least in my mind they do.
I had to rewatch the fight like 3 times to even have something to say. I mean, it looks fine for a level 30 world boss in Alpha, but nothing sticks out as particularly good.
It's hard to even tell what the boss is doing half the time. The tree-swing-root-cone-thing took me a while to understand. Could you outrange it or dash behind him? Most of the players didn't bother to do that, and it's hard to tell the AoE size. I couldn't even tell where the damage was coming from until I saw the tiny roots that mostly got hidden within the player models.
Besides that, and the charge attacks, most of the damage in the fight seems unavoidable (and therefore uninteractive). And people weren't really threatened by the avoidable damage anyways. The adds didn't seem to have any threat or urgency to them, either.
So it came across as just a big tank-and-spank. The only way to fail the fight seemed to be if the overall DPS of the raid was too low in the last phase, since he did more ground-pound waves each time.
Considering that it's a low-level fight I guess I shouldn't expect more gameplay to it. The ice dragon from Alpha 1 was cool, so I know Intrepid is capable of putting together an interesting fight. So I have to assume this one was made more for spectacle than for depth. As always, the graphics looked pretty and the environmental interactions were neat, so at least Intrepid is still nailing that part.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It was a good few years of playing before I managed to get the opportunity to fight any of the main raid bosses in L2.. The fights were great but there were one or two bosses that had unique capabilities that were not found in any other environment. When thrown for the first time and then a later boss flattened. it was an epic moment in game to experience something so unique.
Tech has improved, graphics too, but please reserve some unique characteristics and/or trait in just a select few bosses to replicate that experience. Not literally same but just something unique
(reminded by the comment found earlier of suggesting the boss could on occasion pick up a player and hold/throw them)
some things i saw.
1. walking through bushes without them moving.
2. the creatures/mobs didn't leave footprints.
3. during the fights i would have his dashes actually throw the players back and up into the air. after he loses his main/primary weapon have him grab like the nearby trees and the destructed environment and throw pieces at people. let him grab the person and throw them or like a backhand hit.
4. the wolves that i saw dashing around didn't seem to need much focus on them.
5. you could have him like reach out and give the trees a push as he walks.
6. the spiders looked like they floated a little while they warned instead of staying on the ground.
Well, in case there's no specific answer to my previous post (I understand).
How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
I feel nothing. It's the equivalent of a single standard enemy in games I actually enjoy.
What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
I don't like these in games generally. I can absolutely imagine them being done correctly such that I would enjoy them, but no game has ever done so without being a purely PvE game so nothing applies. Other than that, y'all know where my TheoryRaids are I guess.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
It seems poorly designed for what Ashes is, given what we know about classes now, or even basic extrapolations of what classes and Archetypes would be like. But it's so basic that I figure any feedback I give will just be countered by 'Obviously they will make it more interesting or better!'.and derail feedback.
Overall though, it's like... it's just emptiness. I'd rather play almost anything else than bother with it, as shown. If somehow this is the type of raiding flow the game is supposed to have in general, then {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass}.
Not even the PvP around this would be enjoyable (extrapolating here, people, if you think I'm wrong because of something that we have not seen yet then great but I'm giving feedback based on what I saw).
Well here is one person who has not watched any of the development for this game and is merely butthurt that it is becoming an amazing game on its own without parroting off of others. @Guazey Check this dude out lol has no idea this game is still in systems/network development while saying classes need to be more complex which has no hold on what is currently being tested. When Alpha-2 comes out I bet they will also think its a flushed beta and except to be playing a game instead of testing
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
a) How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops?
Looked promising
b) Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
Like the fact the boss moved a good range making all the players need to be agile and attentive (not static in a very small area)
What might be different spells appeared to have different visuals.. perhaps moderate speed too for greater variance.
Player footprints were nice idea.. but a bit odd not matching foot direction.
Heatlh bars over the top of all players (at 3min mark only) seems like unnecessary screen clutter. info is in the bar on left of screen. prefer to see a clearer screen as shown later in the video. avoid duplicity..
All player shots seemed to be at boss centre torso only, could we see head, foot and center torso shots ?
Player group UI needs work.
Not sure if different number of skills on screen between player classes or setup is the way to go.. prefer one for all
c) What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
for their time, all the L2 bosses.
nowadays, many of the RPG`s seem to have better bosses than MMORPG.. would like to see that direction..
d) Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
Happy to see this level of boss for open world, for instanced and pvp gated instanced, want to see more complex..
Best boss I have ever seen. Pros are to many to mention so I move to cons
Arena was carefully chosen obviosly. Hope AI handles uneven terrain well.
I had to look that clip twice to even notice wolves. Making them separate stage(s) or introducing new mechanics like wolves dragging random players away (stun basicaly) would make it more interesting. Imagine your main tank dragged away for a few seconds. More CC on boss side to break player ranks.
To spark social interaction make boss corpse last long enough for people to tell others about that victory so that others have minor resource loot off that boss once. Makes gatherers hunt on corpses and solo player a bit more viable.
That vomit could create area of denial effect tha lasts long enough to have random players wander in and see that something happened here. Also ground slam craters and player spell marks etc.
Basicaly DecalsLifeTime = 75% of BossRespawnTime
If cyclops could move away from original arena spot a bit further (along his travel path or anywhere) that could introduce rng element like party running into spider nest or into water etc. Maybe even mount-chase him across the land. A bit of randomness V-Rising style.
More environmental interactions. Cyclops hurling stones and trees, players hiding behind rocks to avoid aoe etc. I can see players fighting fire dragon breast deep in the water or grouping on solid rocks so that twisted dryad could not get them with spiky roots or something.
Combat felt pretty static. Spam click basically. Move only to get in range. Player speed compared to combat intensity makes positioning irrelevant.
Also that horn and a barrel on belt could be random mechanics that do not show every fight. Like story arcs within boss foght. Because we need more randomness and control over everything. Predictable 3 phase boss is not so fun.
Well here is one person who has not watched any of the development for this game and is merely butthurt that it is becoming an amazing game on its own without parroting off of others. Guazey Check this dude out lol has no idea this game is still in systems/network development while saying classes need to be more complex which has no hold on what is currently being tested. When Alpha-2 comes out I bet they will also think its a flushed beta and except to be playing a game instead of testing
@Elleandrias I suggest you compare Azherae's number of messages and post vs yours. You've barely even been on this forum while Azherae is one of the most prolific and well-respected posters.
I really disliked the fact that full weapons dropped, not materials to make said weapons. Also to make lower tier bosses relevant throughout the game, maybe they could drop Jewelry or something of this field that would be the best slot items even for the end-game players? Similar to Lineage II lower grade raid bosses dropping best rings? This ensures that items are super valuable and raid boss itself is super profitable to kill even for lower level players, everyone with too high of LVL will have to get it from market. A positive loop.
Comments
wait when are the sales closing? ;-;
Cyclops encounter itself:
Mechanics seemed pretty simple to understand and execute. If we look this as an isolated PVE encounter, I feel like you could jump in blind with a random group and manage the encounter pretty comfortably, even as relatively inexperienced player. So that means that the encounter as it was shown, was maybe a bit too easy, but that's at least partly just a balance issue, which probably shouldn't be focused on yet, but I'll comment on it nevertheless.
I think the Cyclops' attacks should be more punishing, especially the avoidable ones. And in general if you mess up a mechanic, it should be more punishing. In the showcase non-tanks face tanked the Cyclops' avoidable attacks without much of an issue; with just a slight dent on their HP bars. The consequences of messing up should be more significant than what was shown on the showcase. Again, this is partly just a balance issue which will surely be focused on later, but also an encounter design issue, which is something that I'm not really qualified to comment on. There are other more qualified community members that have already shared some great ideas on that issue.
What introductive encounter like this should include:
You should early on introduce players to the main mechanics that are relevant in these kind of encounters. This should include mechanics relevant to the trinity (which was already done pretty well on a surface level), core combat components whatever they end up to be, like active block, dodge or other movement abilities, interrupts, cleanses or whatever. (Doug the tank said that he had to active block some attacks that otherwise would have been devastating. On the other hand players face tanked some attacks without an issue that could have been avoided with movement abilities, again make it more punishing). Also include mechanics relevant to roles, archetypes, PvX elements, etc.
I think it was Doug who said that the Cyclops was designed very early on, when the archetype and combat designs were on very early phases, so I can imagine that this could have some kind of an effect when designing the encounter. So when archetype and combat designs are in better shape, I think we can expect this Cyclops and other encounters to be in better shape as well.
World bosses in general:
I think it's very important to have world bosses like this that have more randomized spawn locations and times. This creates progression paths for guilds and players who can't compete with the top guilds and players who control the prime resource spots and locations. For some it could be the most effective way for progression to travel the lands and look for these world bosses and it would also reward exploring and enhance the traveling. So yeah, I'm all for some very randomized world boss spawns, that could spawn anywhere inside a certain node, biome or even across multiple biomes. Of course rewards need to be balanced accordingly, and the most rewarding encounters should probably be less random and more controllable.
I am also a huge fan of fights that are more controlled, not necessarily just DPS races. I feel like there is a time and a place for DPS races, but so many boss fights in games are just to beat them as fast as possible. Multiple phase fights that require more coordination feel better beating than just muscling though it.
Two specific raid boss encounters that I absolutely love are Thaurlach in The Rift of Nurz Ghashu and Saruman in Orthanc in Lord of the Rings Online.
Thaurlach was a very long multi-phase fight that you needed to close side rooms, shut of wheels that controlled corrupted water, fight a sub-boss while the main boss was active, unlock the room and go fight the main boss who still had %health phases. Oh, and you need to keep an NPC alive while all of this going on. Super fun and rewarding.
Saruman had multiple phases as well and and if you failed a phase you would roll back to the previous phase and even if you beat the encounter, if you weren't paying attention, you could get knocked off the tower!
I really like the direction the group content is taking so far and look forward to seeing more!
Well said, "X is shit" is the most useless statement.
Games are much more entertaining when they are challenging and satisfying when you are able to overcome those challenges. This should be a core design philosophy of Ashes if it isn't already. Dumbing down your game to pander to wider audiences/unskilled players just hurts everyone in the end. The success of Elden Ring proved to me that players of all skill levels are still willing to take on that challenge and struggle.
Effects of the raid boss need to be more defined so players can clearly see the area effect of it's abilities. This can be done by improving the current ground effects, dust clouds, Shockwaves, etc. Player abilities looked blurry and out of place such as the barrage of blue projectiles and bouncing/descending rays of light. It looked like they were low quality compared to the character models and environment.
I think for an introductory world boss this Cyclops looks nice. I saw another person ask about harvesting the wood from the cyclops tree weapon. I like that idea, or if a player is an adept Lumberjack they can chop at the tree weapon while its in the "planted in the ground" phase to harvest wooden resources and deal damage at the same time.
- Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
I'm not a big fan of the Cyclops knocking down trees as it walks. Let me elaborate. I like the idea of the Cyclops knocking down trees but I would like said trees to grow back much quicker than if a player chopped down a tree. My thought process is that once this game is released, or Alpha two starts, everyone will be chopping down every tree in sight to get their hands on some wood. The Cyclops is an early game world boss and should be spawned during this initial wave of new players needing to chop every last tree. So can you imagine that a world boss goes unnoticed for a couple hours, or longer because its tough to put a raid party together sometimes, and all these trees that were trying to regrow get knocked down again, only to reset the growth timers. I think in a perfectly balanced Land Management System players would manage how much they take from the land and allow trees to grow; but that's not what's going to happen. You tell thousands of players to wait a couple days to chop down the remaining trees so more can grow and they'll tell you to buzz off as they can't wait even 5 minutes with their limited play time for more trees to grow if there is one staring at them. And why would they wait, how can they trust thousands of other players to NOT cut down the remaining trees in hopes of getting a good Land Management Score. Basically all I'm thinking is have the trees the Cyclops knocks over regrow much faster than a player chopped down tree.*A side note from this Livestream. The player footprints in the snow did not line up with the player direction. I'm sure this will be fixed but just worth mentioning.
Loving the livestreams, loving the direction of the game, loving the community, hearts out to the entire Intrepid team.
-Garren
How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
I think for a lvl 30 boss this is perfect. No other game I played in the open world required 15+ players to group for a kill at this low of a level. To me this is what an MMO is about. Showing the player base about how a world boss looks. We don't need to see everything at lvl 30, but a glimpse of what to expect as we level in the world. Also as a player, I want the discovery piece to be alive. I would hope that we do not see more world bosses because discovering mechanics and making strats for fights is one of the most intriguing parts of the pve world.
What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
Since this is lower level, this reminds me of the first time fighting Hogger in WoW. Needed a group to take down and even though the other gnolls in camps weren't "part" of the fight, they still played a factor. I liked the progression in WoW. Going from something simple like Hogger to max level world Dragon bosses with a lot of unique mechanics.
Part of the difficulty with these bosses will be OPEN WORLD. Imagine having a group of 20-30 players attempting to take this down when another group of similar size moves in to pick off your players. This is where the difficulty comes into play and becomes exciting.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
Super pleased and looking forward to testing the game in A2!
As some have stated, I worry about the lack of hybrid combat displayed. I know this is something player driven to switch into, but why is no dev using that style? All PoV (even if it was brief) were not using a hybrid model. It was all tab. If tab is easier/superior why have action combat included? Also having the cleric (healer) PoV just be targeting/clicking raid frames tends to be less engaging.
As for the cyclops, I think there’s some room to push the mechanics a bit while still staying true to the encounter design and the desire to be the first world boss point for newer players. Most of my suggestions focus on expanding the mushroom mechanic as I think that could be a very memorable, and easy to understand, part of the encounter. A few ideas:
Finally, as I mentioned, the wolves could use some love. I don't really have any ideas besides the generic ones -- increase the amount, make them spawn earlier, etc. -- and those all depend on other factors. I would recommend working on the other parts of the fight first, and then taking another look at the role the wolf adds are supposed to fulfill.
Thanks for listening and the fun stream. Best of luck with the encounter!
I also have a question preface.
(Asks)
Since this boss is open world and roaming I assume this could be a PVP Heavy encounter?
Pros:
+ Good mechanic variety. (I would love to see another one where he punts a random nearby person)
+ He felt big and intimidating, Screen shake was great. (More Audio queues?)
NItpicks list:
- Sliding Feet (On player too)
- His model was very contrast to the wintery landscape and was jarring, He should have some alterations for the cold times.
- Tank Buster Slam Needs a bigger Queue, maybe a yell or louder slam or screen shake, and dirt/snow Flying into the air. (Him feeling disconnected from the environment seems to be a reoccurring theme)
- What the heck was up with the player models at 10:50 they are all polygony.
He just felt a little disconnected. Great boss though.
I'm interested in the wording of raid boss though. Are the open world bosses going to be called raid bosses and the open world dungeons going to be intrepid's take on a multi boss encounter and play the role of what most people think of when they think of raids AND dungeons? It would be awesome if there were multi boss encounters in the open world as well. For instance, Tumok was baby cyclops, then mom cyclops come out of the forest, followed by dad cyclops after mom is beat.
Since the bosses don't have scaling, I'm worried that the lower-level bosses won't be able to be beat by lower-level people if max level groups have an incentive to try to farm them. I love world bosses having ultra rare drops to try to farm for but if low level bosses are a viable thing to farm at max level, I feel like the boss will insta explode and lower-level players will also explode to high level players AOE's. It would almost make it to where having a low-level boss redundant, because it will be getting farmed by max level groups, to the detriment of low-level players.
Just some thoughts and you guys might already have answered some of these things and I'm just unaware. Either way a great starter boss and very promising for the future of open world bosses.
But if this way is easier for yalls to report feedback to devs, I guess that's fine.
I liked that the fight was not confined to a predetermined stage on the round. I liked how the fight moved around. I liked that you might have to worry about adds, and might have to clear the surrounding area first.
It reminded me of old school raids with lots of characters.
If I'm not mistaken you tooned down the animation by a lot and from my side this is very welcome, now I don't have the JAP game feeling so much anymore.
I believe that nowadays there could be "more advanced mechanics" to do than the classical "dodge this/move there". I dunno the AoC lore (yet) but assuming Cyclops are giants here as well, so he, in fact, could benefit from giants' racial known traits. I'd like this fight to be more creative and reactive, not just the boss mechanics and suddenly he dies... It's so boring to learn mechanics online step by step just to execute, I mean I know this is probably inevitable for raids where there will be competition between people, but don't put these things on timer or debuffs here, make it crazier with these wildling bosses.
This one could for example randomly pick people near him with less than 25% hp and eat them to renew his own health so melee cares more, healers passively focus on healing melee more, etc. If you make this intense, trust me this will be challenging and more exciting than executing a tutorial from a website.
You also clearly have mechanics for him to interact with the environment, why don't you make him rip up a tree from the ground and use it as a weapon, or rip a piece of a nearby mountain and throw it your way, so the place or weather players decided to attack this creature actually matters as well and unlocks some abilities he wouldn't have elsewhere...
things like that you know, gimme something nowadays tech worthwhile, something new, exciting and dynamic, because that is what a world boss should look like. At least in my mind they do.
EDIT: and give me a rogue gameplay already!
It's hard to even tell what the boss is doing half the time. The tree-swing-root-cone-thing took me a while to understand. Could you outrange it or dash behind him? Most of the players didn't bother to do that, and it's hard to tell the AoE size. I couldn't even tell where the damage was coming from until I saw the tiny roots that mostly got hidden within the player models.
Besides that, and the charge attacks, most of the damage in the fight seems unavoidable (and therefore uninteractive). And people weren't really threatened by the avoidable damage anyways. The adds didn't seem to have any threat or urgency to them, either.
So it came across as just a big tank-and-spank. The only way to fail the fight seemed to be if the overall DPS of the raid was too low in the last phase, since he did more ground-pound waves each time.
Considering that it's a low-level fight I guess I shouldn't expect more gameplay to it. The ice dragon from Alpha 1 was cool, so I know Intrepid is capable of putting together an interesting fight. So I have to assume this one was made more for spectacle than for depth. As always, the graphics looked pretty and the environmental interactions were neat, so at least Intrepid is still nailing that part.
Tech has improved, graphics too, but please reserve some unique characteristics and/or trait in just a select few bosses to replicate that experience. Not literally same but just something unique
(reminded by the comment found earlier of suggesting the boss could on occasion pick up a player and hold/throw them)
1. walking through bushes without them moving.
2. the creatures/mobs didn't leave footprints.
3. during the fights i would have his dashes actually throw the players back and up into the air. after he loses his main/primary weapon have him grab like the nearby trees and the destructed environment and throw pieces at people. let him grab the person and throw them or like a backhand hit.
4. the wolves that i saw dashing around didn't seem to need much focus on them.
5. you could have him like reach out and give the trees a push as he walks.
6. the spiders looked like they floated a little while they warned instead of staying on the ground.
Well here is one person who has not watched any of the development for this game and is merely butthurt that it is becoming an amazing game on its own without parroting off of others. @Guazey Check this dude out lol has no idea this game is still in systems/network development while saying classes need to be more complex which has no hold on what is currently being tested. When Alpha-2 comes out I bet they will also think its a flushed beta and except to be playing a game instead of testing
**Check out my Twitch!**
Looked promisingb) Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
c) What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
d) Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
Arena was carefully chosen obviosly. Hope AI handles uneven terrain well.
I had to look that clip twice to even notice wolves. Making them separate stage(s) or introducing new mechanics like wolves dragging random players away (stun basicaly) would make it more interesting. Imagine your main tank dragged away for a few seconds. More CC on boss side to break player ranks.
To spark social interaction make boss corpse last long enough for people to tell others about that victory so that others have minor resource loot off that boss once. Makes gatherers hunt on corpses and solo player a bit more viable.
That vomit could create area of denial effect tha lasts long enough to have random players wander in and see that something happened here. Also ground slam craters and player spell marks etc.
Basicaly DecalsLifeTime = 75% of BossRespawnTime
If cyclops could move away from original arena spot a bit further (along his travel path or anywhere) that could introduce rng element like party running into spider nest or into water etc. Maybe even mount-chase him across the land. A bit of randomness V-Rising style.
More environmental interactions. Cyclops hurling stones and trees, players hiding behind rocks to avoid aoe etc. I can see players fighting fire dragon breast deep in the water or grouping on solid rocks so that twisted dryad could not get them with spiky roots or something.
Combat felt pretty static. Spam click basically. Move only to get in range. Player speed compared to combat intensity makes positioning irrelevant.
Also that horn and a barrel on belt could be random mechanics that do not show every fight. Like story arcs within boss foght. Because we need more randomness and control over everything. Predictable 3 phase boss is not so fun.