Isometric is just a wrong word that I used, because I saw it was a sort of a weird 3rd-person view angle. It's not that deep at all.
Yes, and this is why I corrected you. Many people know what an isoletric view is (think Transport Tycoon), and so incorrect comments like that need to be corrected imo - even if they were just a mistake.
However, since the camera is more manuverable in BG3 than in almost any game I have ever played (none immediately come to mind that have more camera freedom), I still think your issue with it is built on a false assumption or incorrect information.
If you saw a "weird 3rd-person view angle", it is because someone put the camera in a weird 3rd-person view.
Yeah, sure I guess. I just though that bit wasn't that important. as it's not the main thing that I dislike about the game.
Is there a definition for the BG-like camera pov? Cause it's just slightly zoomed in isometric view. It's not 3rd person, cause it's way too far from the characters. Obviously you can control the camera, but I just scrolled through 12h of a stream and 90% of the time (outside of the cutscenes) the camera is like 20m above the characters.
How is that not isometric (even if just a bit zoomed in)?
I guess isometric view is when stuff is displayed to you under a certain angle, and from above, it's trying to represent a 3D view. Now whether that could be applied to BG3, I'm not sure. Apparently not.
I'd still think stuff like PoE, Diablo, and MMOs like Lost Ark, Albion, Runescape, etc. all have the isometric view. BG3 is really similar to them, so that's why I thought it also was isometric.
How is that not isometric (even if just a bit zoomed in)?
The best way to consider isometric view/projection is that it removes all perspective. Two objects of the same size but at vastly different distances from the "camera" will appear the same size.
Look at Transport Tycoon for an example of an isometric view. The world grid in normal view has the "squares" far away from the camera looking the same size as those close to the camera, even though they are the same size.
?? how does that change the fact that games like BG, basically tabletop RPG sims are niche?
Team fortress 2 is a 2007 game and its still top 5 on steam with average 200k concurrent players.... because shooters ain't niche, CSGO also an old game and its top 3, good try tho.
Baldur's Gate II has been honored many times. GameSpot, GameSpy, and IGN awarded it their "Role-Playing Game of the Year" awards in 2000, and it won GameSpot's Readers' Choice Game of the Year award for that year. It received three "Gaming Globe" awards from Eurogamer in 2001: Best Game, Best Art Direction, and Best Male Supporting Character (for Minsc). The Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences honored Shadows of Amn with the "Character or Story Development" award at the 4th Annual Interactive Achievement Awards; it also received nominations for "Game of the Year", "Game Play Engineering", "PC Game of the Year", and "PC Role-Playing". IGN placed it at No. 25 on their 2005 "Top 100 Games of All Time" list. In 2006, though not ranking in the top five games, it earned an "honorable mention" in Gamasutra's Quantum Leap Awards. Baldur's Gate II was inducted into GameSpot's "Greatest Games of All Time" list. In 2009, Game Informer placed Baldur's Gate II at No. 88 on their list of "The Top 200 Games of All Time", calling it "the best Dungeons & Dragons game ever made". This is up one place from their top 100 list in 2001. Empire ranked it No. 19 on their list of the 100 Greatest Games. At the end of 2009, Baldur's Gate II, though not quite making the Top 12 list, received an honorable mention in Gamasutra's Game of the Decade, where readers voted for their best game of the 2000s.
Ian Williams of Paste rated the game No. 2 on his list of "The 10 Greatest Dungeons and Dragons Videogames" in 2015. IGN ranked Baldur's Gate II No. 3 on their "Top 100 RPGs of All Time" list. In 2016, PC Gamer noted the game on their "best RPGs of all time". It was placed at No. 9 on Game Informer's "Top 100 RPGs Of All Time" list, and was included among PCGamesN's "best RPGs on PC" as well.
---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_II:_Shadows_of_Amn
BG2 won awards for Best Game of the Year in addition to Best RPG of the Year.
So... BG2 was not niche.
But, any Baldur's Gate game is going to be wildly popular at launch because of the millions of Dungeons & Dragons fans around the world. Which is probably tens of millions.
But, if you notice - you talk from the perspective of all video game genres. So you talk about video games that include PvP.
I talk from the perspective of RPGs, specifically. So I talk about RPG video games that include PvP.
When I say something like - "Ashes of Creation is likely to be more niche than I originally expected," I'm not talking about in comparison to all video games released. I'm talking about in comparison to other MMORPGs, specifically - especially compared to the EQ/EQ2 and WoW - the two biggest ones. Especially compared to EQ/EQ2 because IS had so many EQ/EQ2 devs on the team.
I now expect Ashes to have EvE Online and ArcheAge population numbers rather than EQ/EQ2/WoW population numbers. (US numbers)
And, yes, when I'm contemplating the popularity of Lineage II, I'm also thinking about popularity in the US, specifically.
The previous Baldur's Gate video games were wildly poplular and award winning when they released - in comparison to all video games that released when they did.
But, my point was not really about that.
You don't have to do much marketing to get a sizeable chunk of the subset of the millions of Tabletop Baldur's Gate, D20 and D&D fans who also play video games to give Baldur's Gate 3 a try. Especially because Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II did not suck. And, in the 3 years that BG3 has been in Early Access, no one has reported that the gameplay for BG3 abysmally sucks.
BG3 is not just an RPG sim with an unknown IP that has great gameplay.
0
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
That's cool and all, and I realize it has a lot of depth, but it's still turn based. My main point here is that a lot of people actively avoid the game because of that.
Pokemon just isn't that comparable, I mean this is 2023, and you're comparing it to something 20+ years old at this point. Or even WoW pet battles, which I'm okay with. They are turn based, yet I don't feel so repulsed by them at all.
Something about BG3 having turn based combat makes it feel cheap, unfun/boring, and mobile-game-esque to me. Especially the isometric view and click to move.
There's an entire world, with great graphics, and great depth to everything in the game, yet when you enter combat, it feels and looks like a complete letdown.
I've yet to pin-point what it is exactly about it, but it just feels constrained, and it doesn't feel like it's free flowing. I feel like I'm enclosed when I enter the combat, and I don't feel any freedom to do whatever I want to when it happens.
Like I said, I can't really explain what it is about the turn-based combat that's so repulsive to me, but I just know that it is, at least when that sort of combat is introduced to RPGs, like BG3, D:OS2, etc.
Yep. But... BG3 is not trying to emulate MMORPGs.
BG3 is an online version of Tabletop D&D.
The lesson could be "even niche games can still be wildly successful". Not like we didn't know that already, but BG just reconfirmed this once again.
I expect we are using niche differently.
And successful would also be relative.
What are the BG3 numbers like in comparison to other single-player RPGs?
I seriously doubt anyone would consider a Turn based/strategy RPG to be anything but "niche". Barely any one even gave a shit about turn based RPGs until Larian started showing how good they could be.
Like Liniker said...people want GOOD games and any Niche genre can quickly become mainstream if done right. People want quality, new ideas and authentic experiences. Niche is quickly becoming a very vague term because of some inspired game development.
All AoC needs to do is make a quality project and It will explode.
Turn based combat used to be the norm. And it never died. Quite a roomy niche.
I know that Azherae already pointed out the weakness of this argument, but yes, turn-based rpgs are a niche these days. The steam's top rpg stats show that. Everyone wants action and pew-pews.
For me say its the idea that expressing yourself is more important then hard rules on lore. for example I used a skin tone that's not even for my race and I love how it turned out I really really hope AoC lets me make something half this good
3
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I seriously doubt anyone would consider a Turn based/strategy RPG to be anything but "niche". Barely any one even gave a shit about turn based RPGs until Larian started showing how good they could be.
It might be niche in the sense that there will be very few CRPGs with Turn-based combat these days.
But, it's not niche in the sense that there should be no suprise that there will be hundreds of thousands of D&D fans who will be interested in an online version of the D&D franchise that includes turn-based combat.
Because D&D itself is not niche.
Like Liniker said...people want GOOD games and any Niche genre can quickly become mainstream if done right. People want quality, new ideas and authentic experiences. Niche is quickly becoming a very vague term because of some inspired game development.
Gamers like good games.
There are plenty of RPG fans who specifically like RPGs
And the point remains that Baldur's Gate is far from being niche - in many different ways
All AoC needs to do is make a quality project and It will explode.
LMAO - quality product is going to be subjective.
Regardless, the fact remains that BG3 is wildly popular because D&D already has a fanbase in the millions (if not billions). And because both Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 were award winning games - including Game of The Year and RPG of the Year.
In order for BG3 to not be wildly popular there would have to be something catastrophically wrong with the gameplay. There should be no surprise that Wizards of the Coast is going to want to ensure that the gameplay is excellent so it doesn't tarnish the D&D franchise.
Turn based combat used to be the norm. And it never died. Quite a roomy niche.
I know that Azherae already pointed out the weakness of this argument, but yes, turn-based rpgs are a niche these days. The steam's top rpg stats show that. Everyone wants action and pew-pews.
Hehe, maybe it's because I like both, and play both types, but, although I can agree turn based combat is not as dominant as before, I'll always have a hard time to consider it niche.
Regardless, the fact remains that BG3 is wildly popular because D&D already has a fanbase in the millions (if not billions).
Self-reported ~50mil to date.
We could probably add ~200mil to that, cause I'd assume they're counting book sales and those usually mean a group of people playing the game.
2/3 of that number is 25+y.o. people, so the genre itself is on the older side, which shows up in the gaming numbers.
Stuff like roblox, fortnite, cod have hundreds of millions of monthly actives (with potentially close to a billion lifetime). Fifa has 8kk monthly actives. And I already posted general rpg stats from steam.
So while, yes, d&d is popular enough, it is still "niche" in the grand scheme of things.
I'll get back to my Divinity Original Sin 2 game I haven't touched since March.
See what you've all done!
(BG3 bought, not sure when I'll get to it. Seems like my old potato is only a bit below the recommended spec)
Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
2
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
LMAO
I was in the restaurant in my office building today.
I asked the 30-something guy who runs it if he was still playing Diablo IV.
He said no - right now he's done with Diablo IV. He's playing a bit of Overwatch right now.
He said he's been hearing great things about BG3 but he hasn't had to time to try it yet.
I told him people on the Ashes Forums are saying BG3 is niche.
He said, "What? How can Baldur's Gate be niche?? Baldur's Gate is not niche!!!"
We discussed it for a while.
A group of TSA agents walked in.
Restaurant guy says to one of the TSA agents, "Hey! Have you heard of Baldur's Gate 3?"
TSA guy, "Yes. But, I haven't had time to play it yet. I was going to try the Early Access but I didn't want to get burn out."
Restaurant guy, "Apparently some people think Baldur's Gate 3 is niche."
TSA guy, "Baldur's Gate is not niche!! Baldur's Gate was one of the most popular games around back in the day."
Dygz, "Someone posted Steam numbers to compare all time peak for Baldur's Gate and BG2."
TSA guy, "Steam?!? We didn't play those games on Steam. We installed them from Compact Disc! Baldur's Gate is not niche!"
As I told Liniker... I get it... you are trying to compare RPGs to all games or to all video games.
And I'm talking about niche within the RPG genre.
Which is why niche means something different for you than it does for me.
And... again...
BG3 is not getting great numbers because it's an RPG sim with an unknown IP with good gameplay.
BG3 is getting great numbers because it's D20 and D&D. It is basically D&D, D20 and Baldur's Gate directly ported from Tabletop to PC in a 3D virtual environment. And because Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II won awards as Best Game of the Year - in addition to winning Best RPG of the Year.
There's no shock that a Baldur's Gate 3 created in the 2020s would be wildly popular.
It would be shocking if somehow the gameplay were so abysmally bad that RPG fans were avoiding it like the Bubonic Plague.
Case closed.
You can have the last word if you want.
smdh
"Baldur's Gate is not niche!! Baldur's Gate was one of the most popular games around back in the day."
I feel like this is the important part. Yes, those games were really popular back then. Just as Starcraft was or Warcraft or any other old game that is from the genre that's barely even alive today.
Were it not for Larian's dedication and skill, BG would be unknown to the younger generation of players today. In other words, this whole discussion boils down to
What game are you talking about here that is mobile looking?
Baldur's Gate looks like a mobile game to me. Same with Lost Ark and Diablo. I personally can't stand the camera angle that way.
All this says to me is that you have some association of a specific camera angle with mobile games.
That isn't an overly accurate association to make.
Since you have just listed three very not mobile games that fit this association you have made, perhaps considering breaking that association.
No. We all preferences. That style isn't mine.
I mean, being wrong can be a preference, so sure, defining an entire platforms worth of games based on one view can be a preference.
I'm not saying it should be a style you like, just that calling that view "mobile looking" when you yourself can name three non-mobile games with it is just very much a "preference".
All AoC needs to do is make a quality project and It will explode.
This isn't quite true.
Ashes needs to be a quality game for most players in order to explode.
The problem is, Intrepid is trying to make a quality game for the few at the top, and is hoping others will hang around in hopes of one day being at the top.
What game are you talking about here that is mobile looking?
Baldur's Gate looks like a mobile game to me. Same with Lost Ark and Diablo. I personally can't stand the camera angle that way.
All this says to me is that you have some association of a specific camera angle with mobile games.
That isn't an overly accurate association to make.
Since you have just listed three very not mobile games that fit this association you have made, perhaps considering breaking that association.
No. We all preferences. That style isn't mine.
I mean, being wrong can be a preference, so sure, defining an entire platforms worth of games based on one view can be a preference.
I'm not saying it should be a style you like, just that calling that view "mobile looking" when you yourself can name three non-mobile games with it is just very much a "preference".
Your passive aggressive tone is also a preference LOL
Larian makes great single-player RPGs. BGIII is a nice blend of the detailed environmental interactions of the Destiny series and the deep, character-driven stories when BioWare reigned RPGs.
Here are the elements I think would be good to take into account for Ashes.
1. Intuitive elemental dynamics. Oil and fire creates explosions. Water and electricity equals zap zap zap. Etc.
2. NPCs with stories players connect to and want to help. BioWare & Larian have done this well for decades. As has Blizzard.
3. Lighting. BG3 inside environments are pretty dark and require torches to see. This includes a lot of stationary lighting such as sconces, braziers, and fireplaces. It makes places like the Underdark that much more dramatic.
What game are you talking about here that is mobile looking?
Baldur's Gate looks like a mobile game to me. Same with Lost Ark and Diablo. I personally can't stand the camera angle that way.
All this says to me is that you have some association of a specific camera angle with mobile games.
That isn't an overly accurate association to make.
Since you have just listed three very not mobile games that fit this association you have made, perhaps considering breaking that association.
No. We all preferences. That style isn't mine.
I mean, being wrong can be a preference, so sure, defining an entire platforms worth of games based on one view can be a preference.
I'm not saying it should be a style you like, just that calling that view "mobile looking" when you yourself can name three non-mobile games with it is just very much a "preference".
Your passive aggressive tone is also a preference LOL
Tone doesn't translate well via text, so reading that post in a passive aggressive manner was a preference.
I'm just saying, the association you have with that view being mobile isn't accurate.
Diablo series, Dungeon Keeper series, Icewind Dale series, Boulders Gate series, Neverwinter series, Divinity series, Titan Queet series, Torchlight series, Path of Exile soon-to-be-series. Depending on what it is you are talking about, arguments could even be made that the Asassins Creed series, Grand Theft Auto series (starting from the third installment, the first two were top down isometric), Cyberpunk, God of War series, Uncharted series, Red Dead Redemption series, Metal Gear series and a whole pile of other games that are too numerous to list would all fall in to this.
There is obviously a reason you associate some apecific camera angles to being "mobile-esque". I'm not at all saying you don't have a reason for making that association. I'm just saying that the camera angle or style or what ever isn't limited to mobile games, didn't originate on mobile games and is very popular on non-mobile games.
Thus, calling it "mobile-esque" to anyone that hasn't made that same association as you is at best unintentionally misleading.
The problem is, Intrepid is trying to make a quality game for the few at the top, and is hoping others will hang around in hopes of one day being at the top.
if that were really the thinking then that's not gonna happen at $15/month, maybe with FTP and cosmetic
For me say its the idea that expressing yourself is more important then hard rules on lore. for example I used a skin tone that's not even for my race and I love how it turned out I really really hope AoC lets me make something half this good
Cool looking character!
1
Options
Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The general consensus on Steams BG3 review statistics is gamers* are supporting a fully developed, 1 time purchased game with no DRM/DLC, microtransactions or battle passes. They are willing to pay full price for a genre no matter how 'niche' it is simply because the consumer base is just sick and tired of being nickle and dime'd out of every in game hollow experience.
Larian Studios made a game with passion for players of games and it shows...
And more important it has shone a searing torch upon the corporate AAA grift and the AAA studios are not to happy about it as their precious marketing algorithms are now exposed along with their lack of actual game development.
The problem is, Intrepid is trying to make a quality game for the few at the top, and is hoping others will hang around in hopes of one day being at the top.
if that were really the thinking then that's not gonna happen at $15/month, maybe with FTP and cosmetic
The problem here is that it is Stevens experience in MMO's. His guild in Archeage was full of sycophants wanting to please Steven in order to gain advantage of some kind.
Since a number of those people are purported to be developing Ashes, it seems they had the right idea.
If you look at Ashes through the lense of it being made by someone that has the experience in MMORPG's of ruling over others with an iron fist, of telling people what to do and expecting them to just do it, the game really does start to look quite disturbing - unless you are someone that wants to rule over others with an iron fist, and tell people what to do and expect them to just do it.
Comments
Yeah, sure I guess. I just though that bit wasn't that important. as it's not the main thing that I dislike about the game.
I guess isometric view is when stuff is displayed to you under a certain angle, and from above, it's trying to represent a 3D view. Now whether that could be applied to BG3, I'm not sure. Apparently not.
I'd still think stuff like PoE, Diablo, and MMOs like Lost Ark, Albion, Runescape, etc. all have the isometric view. BG3 is really similar to them, so that's why I thought it also was isometric.
The best way to consider isometric view/projection is that it removes all perspective. Two objects of the same size but at vastly different distances from the "camera" will appear the same size.
Look at Transport Tycoon for an example of an isometric view. The world grid in normal view has the "squares" far away from the camera looking the same size as those close to the camera, even though they are the same size.
This is what an isometric view is.
BG3 is very much not that.
Ian Williams of Paste rated the game No. 2 on his list of "The 10 Greatest Dungeons and Dragons Videogames" in 2015. IGN ranked Baldur's Gate II No. 3 on their "Top 100 RPGs of All Time" list. In 2016, PC Gamer noted the game on their "best RPGs of all time". It was placed at No. 9 on Game Informer's "Top 100 RPGs Of All Time" list, and was included among PCGamesN's "best RPGs on PC" as well.
---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_II:_Shadows_of_Amn
BG2 won awards for Best Game of the Year in addition to Best RPG of the Year.
So... BG2 was not niche.
But, any Baldur's Gate game is going to be wildly popular at launch because of the millions of Dungeons & Dragons fans around the world. Which is probably tens of millions.
But, if you notice - you talk from the perspective of all video game genres. So you talk about video games that include PvP.
I talk from the perspective of RPGs, specifically. So I talk about RPG video games that include PvP.
When I say something like - "Ashes of Creation is likely to be more niche than I originally expected," I'm not talking about in comparison to all video games released. I'm talking about in comparison to other MMORPGs, specifically - especially compared to the EQ/EQ2 and WoW - the two biggest ones. Especially compared to EQ/EQ2 because IS had so many EQ/EQ2 devs on the team.
I now expect Ashes to have EvE Online and ArcheAge population numbers rather than EQ/EQ2/WoW population numbers. (US numbers)
And, yes, when I'm contemplating the popularity of Lineage II, I'm also thinking about popularity in the US, specifically.
The previous Baldur's Gate video games were wildly poplular and award winning when they released - in comparison to all video games that released when they did.
But, my point was not really about that.
You don't have to do much marketing to get a sizeable chunk of the subset of the millions of Tabletop Baldur's Gate, D20 and D&D fans who also play video games to give Baldur's Gate 3 a try. Especially because Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II did not suck. And, in the 3 years that BG3 has been in Early Access, no one has reported that the gameplay for BG3 abysmally sucks.
BG3 is not just an RPG sim with an unknown IP that has great gameplay.
BG3 is an online version of Tabletop D&D.
Baldur's Gate looks like a mobile game to me. Same with Lost Ark and Diablo. I personally can't stand the camera angle that way.
All this says to me is that you have some association of a specific camera angle with mobile games.
That isn't an overly accurate association to make.
Since you have just listed three very not mobile games that fit this association you have made, perhaps considering breaking that association.
No. We all preferences. That style isn't mine.
I seriously doubt anyone would consider a Turn based/strategy RPG to be anything but "niche". Barely any one even gave a shit about turn based RPGs until Larian started showing how good they could be.
Like Liniker said...people want GOOD games and any Niche genre can quickly become mainstream if done right. People want quality, new ideas and authentic experiences. Niche is quickly becoming a very vague term because of some inspired game development.
All AoC needs to do is make a quality project and It will explode.
Turn based as almost all classic JRPG? From Final Fantasy to Pokemon?
Turn based as in the Dragon Age Origin series?
Turn based as in the KOTOR?
Turn based as in the Battletech?
As in most adaptations of board game?
Turn based combat used to be the norm. And it never died. Quite a roomy niche.
But, it's not niche in the sense that there should be no suprise that there will be hundreds of thousands of D&D fans who will be interested in an online version of the D&D franchise that includes turn-based combat.
Because D&D itself is not niche.
Gamers like good games.
There are plenty of RPG fans who specifically like RPGs
And the point remains that Baldur's Gate is far from being niche - in many different ways
LMAO - quality product is going to be subjective.
Regardless, the fact remains that BG3 is wildly popular because D&D already has a fanbase in the millions (if not billions). And because both Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 were award winning games - including Game of The Year and RPG of the Year.
In order for BG3 to not be wildly popular there would have to be something catastrophically wrong with the gameplay. There should be no surprise that Wizards of the Coast is going to want to ensure that the gameplay is excellent so it doesn't tarnish the D&D franchise.
Hehe, maybe it's because I like both, and play both types, but, although I can agree turn based combat is not as dominant as before, I'll always have a hard time to consider it niche.
how to tell people you are not a raider, without saying you are not a raider.
Although, I guess you would be max level by then. will be expensive in gear repairs though.
We could probably add ~200mil to that, cause I'd assume they're counting book sales and those usually mean a group of people playing the game.
2/3 of that number is 25+y.o. people, so the genre itself is on the older side, which shows up in the gaming numbers.
Stuff like roblox, fortnite, cod have hundreds of millions of monthly actives (with potentially close to a billion lifetime). Fifa has 8kk monthly actives. And I already posted general rpg stats from steam.
So while, yes, d&d is popular enough, it is still "niche" in the grand scheme of things.
I'll get back to my Divinity Original Sin 2 game I haven't touched since March.
See what you've all done!
(BG3 bought, not sure when I'll get to it. Seems like my old potato is only a bit below the recommended spec)
I was in the restaurant in my office building today.
I asked the 30-something guy who runs it if he was still playing Diablo IV.
He said no - right now he's done with Diablo IV. He's playing a bit of Overwatch right now.
He said he's been hearing great things about BG3 but he hasn't had to time to try it yet.
I told him people on the Ashes Forums are saying BG3 is niche.
He said, "What? How can Baldur's Gate be niche?? Baldur's Gate is not niche!!!"
We discussed it for a while.
A group of TSA agents walked in.
Restaurant guy says to one of the TSA agents, "Hey! Have you heard of Baldur's Gate 3?"
TSA guy, "Yes. But, I haven't had time to play it yet. I was going to try the Early Access but I didn't want to get burn out."
Restaurant guy, "Apparently some people think Baldur's Gate 3 is niche."
TSA guy, "Baldur's Gate is not niche!! Baldur's Gate was one of the most popular games around back in the day."
Dygz, "Someone posted Steam numbers to compare all time peak for Baldur's Gate and BG2."
TSA guy, "Steam?!? We didn't play those games on Steam. We installed them from Compact Disc! Baldur's Gate is not niche!"
As I told Liniker... I get it... you are trying to compare RPGs to all games or to all video games.
And I'm talking about niche within the RPG genre.
Which is why niche means something different for you than it does for me.
And... again...
BG3 is not getting great numbers because it's an RPG sim with an unknown IP with good gameplay.
BG3 is getting great numbers because it's D20 and D&D. It is basically D&D, D20 and Baldur's Gate directly ported from Tabletop to PC in a 3D virtual environment. And because Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II won awards as Best Game of the Year - in addition to winning Best RPG of the Year.
There's no shock that a Baldur's Gate 3 created in the 2020s would be wildly popular.
It would be shocking if somehow the gameplay were so abysmally bad that RPG fans were avoiding it like the Bubonic Plague.
Case closed.
You can have the last word if you want.
smdh
Were it not for Larian's dedication and skill, BG would be unknown to the younger generation of players today. In other words, this whole discussion boils down to
I mean, being wrong can be a preference, so sure, defining an entire platforms worth of games based on one view can be a preference.
I'm not saying it should be a style you like, just that calling that view "mobile looking" when you yourself can name three non-mobile games with it is just very much a "preference".
Ashes needs to be a quality game for most players in order to explode.
The problem is, Intrepid is trying to make a quality game for the few at the top, and is hoping others will hang around in hopes of one day being at the top.
Your passive aggressive tone is also a preference LOL
Here are the elements I think would be good to take into account for Ashes.
1. Intuitive elemental dynamics. Oil and fire creates explosions. Water and electricity equals zap zap zap. Etc.
2. NPCs with stories players connect to and want to help. BioWare & Larian have done this well for decades. As has Blizzard.
3. Lighting. BG3 inside environments are pretty dark and require torches to see. This includes a lot of stationary lighting such as sconces, braziers, and fireplaces. It makes places like the Underdark that much more dramatic.
Tone doesn't translate well via text, so reading that post in a passive aggressive manner was a preference.
I'm just saying, the association you have with that view being mobile isn't accurate.
Diablo series, Dungeon Keeper series, Icewind Dale series, Boulders Gate series, Neverwinter series, Divinity series, Titan Queet series, Torchlight series, Path of Exile soon-to-be-series. Depending on what it is you are talking about, arguments could even be made that the Asassins Creed series, Grand Theft Auto series (starting from the third installment, the first two were top down isometric), Cyberpunk, God of War series, Uncharted series, Red Dead Redemption series, Metal Gear series and a whole pile of other games that are too numerous to list would all fall in to this.
There is obviously a reason you associate some apecific camera angles to being "mobile-esque". I'm not at all saying you don't have a reason for making that association. I'm just saying that the camera angle or style or what ever isn't limited to mobile games, didn't originate on mobile games and is very popular on non-mobile games.
Thus, calling it "mobile-esque" to anyone that hasn't made that same association as you is at best unintentionally misleading.
if that were really the thinking then that's not gonna happen at $15/month, maybe with FTP and cosmetic
Cool looking character!
Larian Studios made a game with passion for players of games and it shows...
And more important it has shone a searing torch upon the corporate AAA grift and the AAA studios are not to happy about it as their precious marketing algorithms are now exposed along with their lack of actual game development.
I plan to purchase BG3 this Wednesday.
The problem here is that it is Stevens experience in MMO's. His guild in Archeage was full of sycophants wanting to please Steven in order to gain advantage of some kind.
Since a number of those people are purported to be developing Ashes, it seems they had the right idea.
If you look at Ashes through the lense of it being made by someone that has the experience in MMORPG's of ruling over others with an iron fist, of telling people what to do and expecting them to just do it, the game really does start to look quite disturbing - unless you are someone that wants to rule over others with an iron fist, and tell people what to do and expect them to just do it.