Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
PvE players can do their stuff like exploring, RPing, Farming ... without getting ganked then!
That would be a great compromise and keep the gankers out of the game!
Look, repeatedly game developers have made very clear statements and then went and done the exact opposite. Remember when World of Warcraft dev's said there would never be a cash shop? Remember when they said there would never be PVE to PVP server transfers? I could go on and on and it's certainly not limited to World of Warcraft.
I don't care if AOC developers straight promise to never make a PVE server, I assure you if there is enough demand they will, in fact, make a PvE server. They will find a way to make it work. While the love of the genre or game stuff is nice, don't mistake that profit is a prime consideration.
What you are witnessing now is just the initial grumblings. The game is in pre-pre Alpha and probably at least a year and a half from release. I guarantee there are more PVE'rs that look at the vids and think cool, to only discover that PVP is a mandate. Many will simply cross the game off right there. Others will follow up with the game and speak from their PVE viewpoint urging developers to include a PvE only option. This isn't going to stop, no matter what is done or said by anyone.
There is a large PvE crowd and they are not going to play a game where they are victimized by a style they don't like. MMO's typically look to broaden appeal, not narrow it. More people playing, means more $.
I like AOC as advertised and hope they go forward and stick to their guns. I think players who don't like a game should simply play a different game instead of try and change a game. Yet, that's not what people do. Over a decade of gaming xp and I can assure you that every MMO suffers from factions of players trying to alter the game towards their preference. AOC will be no different in that regard.
Let's hope they have the fortitude and character to stick to their original vision.
Should you be a fully PvE oriented player, I see nothing wrong with that at all. AOC currently isn't going to be a game your likely to be interested in. You will not be immune to PvP. You will be a victim in this game if you try and play it as a carebear. That's just the truth and it shouldn't be sugarcoated.
There is a large PvE crowd and they are not going to play a game where they are victimized by a style they don’t like. MMO’s typically look to broaden appeal, not narrow it. More people playing, means more $.
[/quote]
You nailed it!
And i can tell you the PvE crowd is way larger than the PvP crowd.
Safe zones could be enough to let us PvE players into the game.
I was absolutely okay with the "No PvP in safe zones" system in ArcheAge. I could do my stuff without worrying about gankers. Never got killed in 2 years ArcheAge :)
</blockquote>
Look, repeatedly game developers have made very clear statements and then went and done the exact opposite. Remember when World of Warcraft dev’s said there would never be a cash shop? Remember when they said there would never be PVE to PVP server transfers? I could go on and on and it’s certainly not limited to World of Warcraft.
I don’t care if AOC developers straight promise to never make a PVE server, I assure you if there is enough demand they will, in fact, make a PvE server. They will find a way to make it work. While the love of the genre or game stuff is nice, don’t mistake that profit is a prime consideration.
What you are witnessing now is just the initial grumblings. The game is in pre-pre Alpha and probably at least a year and a half from release. I guarantee there are more PVE’rs that look at the vids and think cool, to only discover that PVP is a mandate. Many will simply cross the game off right there. Others will follow up with the game and speak from their PVE viewpoint urging developers to include a PvE only option. This isn’t going to stop, no matter what is done or said by anyone.
There is a large PvE crowd and they are not going to play a game where they are victimized by a style they don’t like. MMO’s typically look to broaden appeal, not narrow it. More people playing, means more $.
I like AOC as advertised and hope they go forward and stick to their guns. I think players who don’t like a game should simply play a different game instead of try and change a game. Yet, that’s not what people do. Over a decade of gaming xp and I can assure you that every MMO suffers from factions of players trying to alter the game towards their preference. AOC will be no different in that regard.
Let’s hope they have the fortitude and character to stick to their original vision.
Should you be a fully PvE oriented player, I see nothing wrong with that at all. AOC currently isn’t going to be a game your likely to be interested in. You will not be immune to PvP. You will be a victim in this game if you try and play it as a carebear. That’s just the truth and it shouldn’t be sugarcoated.
[/quote]
<Shrug> Sure if they need to they might do whatever it takes and cobble together a PVE version of AoC. No objection from me so long as it doesn't interfere with getting the first version of the game up and running.
My opinion is that it would be a really "weak sauce" game compared to what Intrepid is working on now. Pretty much losing all of the role playing possibility that is there in the real version. No one gets to play "the bad guys". I just can't see "conflict" for caravans, Nodes, etc.. being resolved without PVP combat conflict (the ability to try and stop the other side from wrecking your stuff) as, in any way, very satisfying play. Who wants to sit still powerless while "the opponent" wrecks your Node, loots your caravan, steals your scarce resources? lol Yay!
Real meaning and great opportunity for RP comes from dynamic player interactions and that includes conflict but it has to be more satisfying than limited NPC AI to be the best. In TT games there is a GM. If he is good at what he does, he is MUCH better than a computer generated NPC.
But different strokes for different folks, I guess.
I don't know if the nodes are agruped in regions (so X nodes maake a region/kingdom for example), but maybe this rights could be done not in each single node, which would be crazy, but the consensus of the guilds occupying the nodes of a certain region/kingdom. Something similar as the taxes that the guild recieves when occupying a castle.
(I don't know exactly how the map will work, how big are the nodes or the area of influence of a guild occupying a castle)
So regions with particular violent guilds would be less accessible to players who want to grind because they know that there the pk is more probable. So grinding there or making a boss there would be more difficult and other tipes guilds like artisain or PvE focused guilds might be interested in defeating them not only for the control of the castle but also to rise the accessibility of those nodes and the mats containing the mobs there.
[/quote]
That's how the pvp system is going to work with the pvp bubble around pvp activity. The bubble can be mobile too with land and sea caravans moving around the map.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/19/#post-19799" rel="nofollow">Treve wrote:</a></div>
There is a large PvE crowd and they are not going to play a game where they are victimized by a style they don’t like. MMO’s typically look to broaden appeal, not narrow it. More people playing, means more $.
</blockquote>
You nailed it!
And i can tell you the PvE crowd is way larger than the PvP crowd.
Safe zones could be enough to let us PvE players into the game.
I was absolutely okay with the “No PvP in safe zones” system in ArcheAge. I could do my stuff without worrying about gankers. Never got killed in 2 years ArcheAge <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
[/quote]
Not true, its just a part of the PvE crowd that basicly cries about that flanking/ganking feature, as a PvE player myself dont care much if i get ganked a few times i mean its not like im gonna just look, if he attacks many people his stats will be quite low so i can bash him and probably get his gear. To be honest i dont get the drama about it, its most likely not going to happen that a only PVE server will be created just for you guys, get over it.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/19/#post-19802" rel="nofollow">Snakeeyez wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/19/#post-19799" rel="nofollow">Treve wrote:</a></div>
There is a large PvE crowd and they are not going to play a game where they are victimized by a style they don’t like. MMO’s typically look to broaden appeal, not narrow it. More people playing, means more $.
</blockquote>
You nailed it!
And i can tell you the PvE crowd is way larger than the PvP crowd.
Safe zones could be enough to let us PvE players into the game.
I was absolutely okay with the “No PvP in safe zones” system in ArcheAge. I could do my stuff without worrying about gankers. Never got killed in 2 years ArcheAge <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
</blockquote>
Not true, its just a part of the PvE crowd that basicly cries about that flanking/ganking feature, as a PvE player myself dont care much if i get ganked a few times i mean its not like im gonna just look, if he attacks many people his stats will be quite low so i can bash him and probably get his gear. To be honest i dont get the drama about it, its most likely not going to happen that a only PVE server will be created just for you guys, get over it.
[/quote]
Now isn’t the time to get over anything, it’s a game in alpha(or pre alpha). Now is exactly the time they should say what they want. The problem becomes when they are told what the game is and they persist about what they want. That happens in a lot of games and it’s a problem that inevitably becomes one of the fissure points in a community and leads to negativity on message boards.
I want open world PvP but I’m not going to sit here and try and shut people up who don’t want that, not yet anyway. Now for a game that comes out in Dec18 if say a year from now, and devs are clear on what they want PVP to be, we have game footage etc. they are still complaining and demanding their way? I’ll be right here cutting them down loudly. It’s like an ESO player complaining about zergs in cyrodiil. It’s been a zergfest for years now, but they still complain. They are either complete idiots or are masochists.
You can’t do anything with people like that, they don’t want to accept facts and they don’t want to hear alternative views. The best way to handle them is revel in their anguish and stupidity. Allow them to writhe around hoping for a change that simply isn’t going to happen. This is a message forum for an MMO game, changing someone’s mind is completely futile.
The game will settle it, but right now there is no game.
PVE focused players have a point. PVP players have a point. Neither are right or wrong. What I've learned over the years is that a PvP penalty system like this "corruption system" will do more harm than good. Instead of allowing players to enjoy their way of playing it garners negative results from both sides of this debate. It's already separating the community. This is a big mistake from a CEO that claims to want to bring the community together.
Just my opinion.
PVE focused players have a point. PVP players have a point. Neither are right or wrong. What I’ve learned over the years is that a PvP penalty system like this “corruption system” will do more harm than good. Instead of allowing players to enjoy their way of playing it garners negative results from both sides of this debate. It’s already separating the community. This is a big mistake from a CEO that claims to want to bring the community together.
Just my opinion.
[/quote]
Yes it is just your Opinion. Yet people who like myself are mainly PVEers dont care because the PVP aspect will be good because the corruption system will reduce the overall risk of pointless PKing of players. We UNDERSTAND the goal of the corruption system. The problem is your Opinion is a PVE server which splits the community which we do not want to happen. And yes not every game is for everyone. You dont like it, tough I dont go and bitch in Neverwinter's Forums for them to give me a P2P only forums, or to ArcheAge's forums or to Pantheon's saying that this game will fail because they do not have instances and raids like WOW. No I read up on a game and give me opinion if I disagree with something. I do not go full negative because my opinion is not being listen to when the developers already have a path for the game. If I dont like it I do not bitch.
Here is an idea, why not quit complaining and wait until Beta and play. Spend a good 4 weeks playing and then say something. If you keep getting killed people the corruption system is not working tell the developers. For example if the person is killing a level 1 and is max level and that max level is not losing combat effectiveness then the system is broke. But if there are no bugs in the corruption system and people are just being dicks say something and see if it gets fix. If they dont listen at that point then leave. The Truth is they are not going to chance the game for someone who is demanding it on the forums when the game is not even in Alpha.
PVE focused players have a point. PVP players have a point. Neither are right or wrong. What I’ve learned over the years is that a PvP penalty system like this “corruption system” will do more harm than good. Instead of allowing players to enjoy their way of playing it garners negative results from both sides of this debate. It’s already separating the community. This is a big mistake from a CEO that claims to want to bring the community together.
Just my opinion.
[/quote]
You are such a hypocrite.
"I’m all for PvPers having an amazing game experience and enjoying what they love, killing other players. But under no circumstances do I want to play another MMO where I’m a victim. I’m only interested in PVE and raids. There are millions of players that share my concern. If you guys don’t have PVE only servers you are seriously hurting your potential customer base and long term retention."
This is your first post. You literally say that you have an unconditional requirement of MMOs. You then further go on to describe the ONLY content that you are going to play and then BEFORE the company has fully talked about how the game is going to be run or how things are going to work out you condemn them to harming their community.
If I were an impressionable PVE'er who didn't have my own voice, who you claim is "many of them", I would read this and think that maybe this game isn't for me.
This is going to be crude:
Get your fucking shit together. You started this entire thread by making sweeping and broad generalizations and then allowing no room for variance because you don't like that kind of variance. You can't start a war and then at the end pretend to listen to other people. If anyone is dividing the community it is you sir and this entire thread.
But hey that's just my opinion so.....
Thanks,
Lex
As a general rule, of course, it's beneficial to have more players in the game. However, that benefit disappears when a significant number of players are calling for changes to the game, changes that in essence subvert the original vision of the game that attracted a majority of the players in the 1st place. Players politicking for these kinds of changes are detrimental to the game itself and eventually cause more harm than good.
While I won't tell them to go away, I will point out that AOC doesn't seem to fit their playstyle and they would better serve themselves if they looked elsewhere for their gaming needs. After all, there is no shortage of games that offer pure PvE options for those who prefer that style.
I will readily admit that developers tend to cave on these demands (which is likely part of the reason some don't want to see the rhetoric at all). I understand that you can't silence opposing views and instead encourage developers to stick to their original visions. In the end, I feel the game will be better and more profitable if they do so.
Ultimately, it's the developers themselves that need to hold true to their own vision. Should they bend here on this basic premise and actually create a PvE server or PvE safe mode in game... I'd view it as a negative and a sign of bad things to come.
I don’t know if the nodes are agruped in regions (so X nodes maake a region/kingdom for example), but maybe this rights could be done not in each single node, which would be crazy, but the consensus of the guilds occupying the nodes of a certain region/kingdom. Something similar as the taxes that the guild recieves when occupying a castle.
(I don’t know exactly how the map will work, how big are the nodes or the area of influence of a guild occupying a castle)
So regions with particular violent guilds would be less accessible to players who want to grind because they know that there the pk is more probable. So grinding there or making a boss there would be more difficult and other tipes guilds like artisain or PvE focused guilds might be interested in defeating them not only for the control of the castle but also to rise the accessibility of those nodes and the mats containing the mobs there.
[/quote]
So what you mean is laws should be determined by whoevers in charge.
Those laws should apply to everyone within its zone of influence.
The law of the realm kind of thing.
Interesting concept not without its merits.
BUT...PvE players fighting scripted AI is not the same degree of combat difficulty as fighting human reactive adaptability.
Thats not flaming PvE crowd. Please dont take it as such.
PvE players are also more crafting friendly. PvP players I assume ot be more interested in combat than artesan skills.
Artesans will not be designed or built for combat. They will be built for craft.
Thus it is not inconceivable that by force alone the server would be dominated by PvP rulers.
Thats would put the laws of the land in favour of PvP players and probably gank friendly.
That situation would be absolutely untenable to the PvE population.
In my eyes at least.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/19/#post-19872" rel="nofollow">Xavier93 wrote:</a></div>
If the idea of the game and the nodes system is to give freedom to the players and to evolve, destroy etc what is build in a node,, why not let the same people handle the corruption system? For example, if a node is controlled by a guild which likes particularly pking, then it’s guildmaster/ruler of the node/city (the guy who can have a fcking flying mount) could have certain privileges in adjusting the penalties of pking in that zone. So if you have a node where the guild dominating it is a pkrs guild, they could remove almost any penalty or adjust it in a certain reasonable margins.
I don’t know if the nodes are agruped in regions (so X nodes maake a region/kingdom for example), but maybe this rights could be done not in each single node, which would be crazy, but the consensus of the guilds occupying the nodes of a certain region/kingdom. Something similar as the taxes that the guild recieves when occupying a castle.
(I don’t know exactly how the map will work, how big are the nodes or the area of influence of a guild occupying a castle)
So regions with particular violent guilds would be less accessible to players who want to grind because they know that there the pk is more probable. So grinding there or making a boss there would be more difficult and other tipes guilds like artisain or PvE focused guilds might be interested in defeating them not only for the control of the castle but also to rise the accessibility of those nodes and the mats containing the mobs there.
</blockquote>
So what you mean is laws should be determined by whoevers in charge.
Those laws should apply to everyone within its zone of influence.
The law of the realm kind of thing.
Interesting concept not without its merits.
BUT…PvE players fighting scripted AI is not the same degree of combat difficulty as fighting human reactive adaptability.
Thats not flaming PvE crowd. Please dont take it as such.
PvE players are also more crafting friendly. PvP players I assume ot be more interested in combat than artesan skills.
Artesans will not be designed or built for combat. They will be built for craft.
Thus it is not inconceivable that by force alone the server would be dominated by PvP rulers.
Thats would put the laws of the land in favour of PvP players and probably gank friendly.
That situation would be absolutely untenable to the PvE population.
In my eyes at least.
[/quote]
Dependent on the reliance of PVP players on the artisan. If the only means to get buff food, jewels and high end gear are the artisan class then the artisan class has a potent weapon in its own right, embargo.
I doubt highly that would ever work given that it would require a pretty sophisticated level of organization on a large scale. I mean I haven’t seen it in an MMO yet but who knows.
Example: Player Joe smiroldo continues to PK people. He PK's a player in a artisan guild with 500 people. That guild decides to place him on a "no sale" list and there is an ingame mechanism by which Joe can not buy goods from anyone in that guild. If this is ever abused we have the PVP rememdy, repeated PKing.
Thats would put the laws of the land in favour of PvP players and probably gank friendly.
That situation would be absolutely untenable to the PvE population.
In my eyes at least.
[/quote]
Probably?
This will be a huge gankfest if everybody can be killed anywhere with any level ...
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/19/#post-19799" rel="nofollow">Treve wrote:</a></div>
There is a large PvE crowd and they are not going to play a game where they are victimized by a style they don’t like. MMO’s typically look to broaden appeal, not narrow it. More people playing, means more $.
</blockquote>
You nailed it!
And i can tell you the PvE crowd is way larger than the PvP crowd.
Safe zones could be enough to let us PvE players into the game.
I was absolutely okay with the “No PvP in safe zones” system in ArcheAge. I could do my stuff without worrying about gankers. Never got killed in 2 years ArcheAge <img alt="" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
[/quote]
So... you guys do realize that whether a fan here is pro or anti "PVE only Server", at this point NONE of us has a say? This is Intrepid's baby and they are sticking to their guns. It isn't as if we are just expecting you to bend while we are not willing to. Not 100% anyway. We have no choice either. It just is lucky I guess that things are planned just how medium level PVP fans want it in this case.
You see objections to the idea largely because fans that are accepting of the game design really don't want the community split up. We want a healthy base when it gets started. You guys are coming in here and reinforcing the fears and objections of some of the players that are willing to TRY the game before they decide it is a gank festival. For Kripes Sake it isn't even an Alpha stage game yet! You want Intrepid to make 2 games instead of one. You want Intrepid to spend money for PVE servers and claim that there are 10s of 1000s of players that will then play AoC but all you have to show are maybe 20- 50 voices throughout this whole Grand Forum. Making 2 games costs more and takes longer. Extra servers and staff for them are really not trivial things.
My usual approach to this situation is to try and help out potential players with reassurances that PVP isn't all that bad and certainly not nearly as bad as they have stuck in their heads from previous experience. Not in a game that takes "naughty PVP" seriously. We still have to see more of the game before we can judge most anything about it. In the meantime, PLEASE QUIT TRYING TO SCARE OFF THOSE THAT ARE WILLING TO GIVE THE GAME A SHOT.
If you are the type of player that can't be convinced to give an OWPVP game a try, including just trying to PLAY in an OWPVP game with some precautions and some advice on how to stay off PK radar, then no one can help you! Go flap your gums somewhere that you can do some good. Repeating over and over that there are MULTITUDES of players and dollars left on the table without PVE only servers ain't doin any good here so far. I only see about 20-50 people threatening to not play and 10 times(normally anti PVP) that ready to give it a shot.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20149" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
Thats would put the laws of the land in favour of PvP players and probably gank friendly.
That situation would be absolutely untenable to the PvE population.
In my eyes at least.
</blockquote>
Probably?
This will be a huge gankfest if everybody can be killed anywhere with any level …
[/quote]
There you go confirming my opinion that you want to scare off potential players. Statements that have no factual base from which to be made. Sheesh!
1. PvE extremist on one side who want nothing to do with PvP because PvP players are often nothing more than mass murderers when given the opportunity to do so.
2. On the other side you have PvP players who want nothing to do with the corruption system and have it removed so that they can have free reign on the not combat built PvE artesan crowd. Thus proving the PvE fears.
Neither of these situations will enable a PvPvE server to function.
And AoC policy is to do their damnedest to ensure neither option 1 or 2 happens.
Me. I believe an MMO should be fully inclusive or it failed.
So AoC is doing the right thing in my eyes.
When the PvP players accept they will not have free reign to slaughter everyone but still have plenty of honorable PvP.
When the PvE players accept they are not going to get slaughtered because PvP wont have a free reign.
Hopefully then they will realise that AoC isnt as bad as they thought.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20171" rel="nofollow">Snakeeyez wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20149" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
Thats would put the laws of the land in favour of PvP players and probably gank friendly.
That situation would be absolutely untenable to the PvE population.
In my eyes at least.
</blockquote>
Probably?
This will be a huge gankfest if everybody can be killed anywhere with any level …
</blockquote>
There you go confirming my opinion that you want to scare off potential players. Statements that have no factual base from which to be made. Sheesh!
[/quote]
Yeh, its posted replies like these that make me believe I should expect to be ganked 99% of my dedicated gaming time...
The ganker community of the smug opinion that there is nothing I can do about it, so just suck it up, Buttercup and know that its going to happen and not just happen, but DOMINATE my gaming experience... all the time, every time...
It is almost convincing enough to make me say that maybe this game is not for me, but I agree with someone else that previously posted that, if and when done right, I should not expect ganking to overwhelm my gaming experience in what promises to be a truly amazing gaming experience.
[quote quote=20217]At the end of the day you have;
1. PvE extremist on one side who want nothing to do with PvP because PvP players are often nothing more than mass murderers when given the opportunity to do so.
2. On the other side you have PvP players who want nothing to do with the corruption system and have it removed so that they can have free reign on the not combat built PvE artesan crowd. Thus proving the PvE fears.
When the PvP players accept they will not have free reign to slaughter everyone but still have plenty of honorable PvP.
When the PvE players accept they are not going to get slaughtered because PvP wont have a free reign.
Hopefully then they will realise that AoC isnt as bad as they thought.
[/quote]
Posts like this have me encouraged that the devs have every intention of addressing this issue and make certain players realize that open world PvP does NOT mean that non-stop ganking is the totality of their gaming world's purpose ...
1. PvE extremist on one side who want nothing to do with PvP because PvP players are often nothing more than mass murderers when given the opportunity to do so.
2. On the other side you have PvP players who want nothing to do with the corruption system and have it removed so that they can have free reign on the not combat built PvE artesan crowd. Thus proving the PvE fears.
Neither of these situations will enable a PvPvE server to function.
And AoC policy is to do their damnedest to ensure neither option 1 or 2 happens.
Me. I believe an MMO should be fully inclusive or it failed.
So AoC is doing the right thing in my eyes.
When the PvP players accept they will not have free reign to slaughter everyone but still have plenty of honorable PvP.
When the PvE players accept they are not going to get slaughtered because PvP wont have a free reign.
Hopefully then they will realise that AoC isnt as bad as they thought.[/quote]
Actually, I finally remembered last night my actual problem with playing on a PvP server.
I had been thinking I wouldn't play on the PvE server I've been advocating, but now realize I will probably end up needing one.
I am a PvP sometimes person. I like PvP combat - especially defending cities.
What I loved about the EQnext was their design features for PvP conflict and is continued in AoC as Node v Node conflict...
(what Steven calls "meaningful PvP"). That actually flipped my kill switch to aggressor. I've been looking forward to blowing stuff up in enemy territory and killing any player characters that try to stop me.
But last night I remembered that what sends me over to the PvE servers is that I am a casual player. So, my threshold for PvP combat is about 60 minutes. I get pissed off when people attack me while I'm off harvesting and waiting for the flag timer to expire. I get pissed about being forced into PvP combat when I'm not in the mood for PvP combat. Especially problematic while I'm not in the mood but still flagged.
In AOC, being attacked while I'm flagged as combatant does not give my attacker any corruption. And being flagged actually encourages PvPers to attack me rather than any non-combatants who might be around.
Surrounding myself with other players to "protect me" is not going to work.My paladin can't just suddenly say, "Sorry, guys I'm done with PvP combat now. Watch my back please, but if we get attacked, I'm not helping you out. Hope you don't die! Thanks! I'll just be over here picking daisies."
Funny how the PvPers always present things as if they're gonna win while "protecting " non-combatants.
Corruption is not an adequate deterrent. Not even close.
My hope has been that we can find a way for PvE-Only folk, PvP combat sometimes folk and PvP combat always folk can all share the same server. But , that is unlikely to happen when the PvP-always perspective is typically "grow a pair" "we will fight for you" and "if you're flagged as a combatant it's OK for me to kill you".
It is likely to be just about as bad as it always was - and in some cases worse.
But, we've got a couple years to wait and we don't even know if it will be released.
There really should be no concern about scaring people away from the game.
The Kickstarter is already a success.
When we get into the game, we will have a better idea about how well we get along.
And, if the concerns actually get resolved... everyone will know months before release.
Could you please describe your vision of honorable PvP combat.
I was doing that last night based on the Corruption mechanic.
And then realized that those rules actually are likely to piss me off and make me rage quit because more than getting ganked while flagged as non-combatant, what I hate is being forced into PvP combat when I'm tired of fighting players and want to do something else more casual - but the flag timer is still active (combatant).
I hate that PvPers won't leave me alone when I tell them I don't want to be bothered with PvP combat at the moment.
Under the AoC rules, attacking me in that condition is honorable. From the PvEer perspective, that is forced, nonconsensual PvP combat... and the attacker is a dishonorable griefer.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20217" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
At the end of the day you have;
1. PvE extremist on one side who want nothing to do with PvP because PvP players are often nothing more than mass murderers when given the opportunity to do so.
2. On the other side you have PvP players who want nothing to do with the corruption system and have it removed so that they can have free reign on the not combat built PvE artesan crowd. Thus proving the PvE fears.
Neither of these situations will enable a PvPvE server to function.
And AoC policy is to do their damnedest to ensure neither option 1 or 2 happens.
Me. I believe an MMO should be fully inclusive or it failed.
So AoC is doing the right thing in my eyes.
When the PvP players accept they will not have free reign to slaughter everyone but still have plenty of honorable PvP.
When the PvE players accept they are not going to get slaughtered because PvP wont have a free reign.
Hopefully then they will realise that AoC isnt as bad as they thought.
</blockquote>
Actually, I finally remembered last night my actual problem with playing on a PvP server.
I had been thinking I wouldn’t play on the PvE server I’ve been advocating, but now realize I will probably end up needing one.
I am a PvP sometimes person. I like PvP combat – especially defending cities.
What I loved about the EQnext was their design features for PvP conflict and is continued in AoC as Node v Node conflict…
(what Steven calls “meaningful PvP”). That actually flipped my kill switch to aggressor. I’ve been looking forward to blowing stuff up in enemy territory and killing any player characters that try to stop me.
But last night I remembered that what sends me over to the PvE servers is that I am a casual player. So, my threshold for PvP combat is about 60 minutes. I get pissed off when people attack me while I’m off harvesting and waiting for the flag timer to expire. I get pissed about being forced into PvP combat when I’m not in the mood for PvP combat. Especially problematic while I’m not in the mood but still flagged.
In AOC, being attacked while I’m flagged as combatant does not give my attacker any corruption. And being flagged actually encourages PvPers to attack me rather than any non-combatants who might be around.
Surrounding myself with other players to “protect me” is not going to work.My paladin can’t just suddenly say, “Sorry, guys I’m done with PvP combat now. Watch my back please, but if we get attacked, I’m not helping you out. Hope you don’t die! Thanks! I’ll just be over here picking daisies.”
Funny how the PvPers always present things as if they’re gonna win while “protecting ” non-combatants.
Corruption is not an adequate deterrent. Not even close.
My hope has been that we can find a way for PvE-Only folk, PvP combat sometimes folk and PvP combat always folk can all share the same server. But , that is unlikely to happen when the PvP-always perspective is typically “grow a pair” “we will fight for you” and “if you’re flagged as a combatant it’s OK for me to kill you”.
It is likely to be just about as bad as it always was – and in some cases worse.
But, we’ve got a couple years to wait and we don’t even know if it will be released.
There really should be no concern about scaring people away from the game.
The Kickstarter is already a success.
When we get into the game, we will have a better idea about how well we get along.
And, if the concerns actually get resolved… everyone will know months before release.
[/quote]
It's not going to happen. They are dead set on making this a PVP game. They just announced in their live stream that even cities will not be safe zones. Good luck guys. I hope you enjoy the game.
It’s not going to happen. They are dead set on making this a PVP game. They just announced in their live stream that even cities will not be safe zones. Good luck guys. I hope you enjoy the game.[/quote]
Well, we knew that it was going to be a PvP game. PvP conflict is the core mechanic.
It's just a pipe-dream that Steven has the answers for uniting PvE-Only, PvP sometimes and PvP always MMORPG fans.
He does have a solution for players who just like to craft and gather. They will have fun with the currently designed mechanics.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/21/#post-20324" rel="nofollow">Dygz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20217" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
At the end of the day you have;
1. PvE extremist on one side who want nothing to do with PvP because PvP players are often nothing more than mass murderers when given the opportunity to do so.
2. On the other side you have PvP players who want nothing to do with the corruption system and have it removed so that they can have free reign on the not combat built PvE artesan crowd. Thus proving the PvE fears.
Neither of these situations will enable a PvPvE server to function.
And AoC policy is to do their damnedest to ensure neither option 1 or 2 happens.
Me. I believe an MMO should be fully inclusive or it failed.
So AoC is doing the right thing in my eyes.
When the PvP players accept they will not have free reign to slaughter everyone but still have plenty of honorable PvP.
When the PvE players accept they are not going to get slaughtered because PvP wont have a free reign.
Hopefully then they will realise that AoC isnt as bad as they thought.
</blockquote>
Actually, I finally remembered last night my actual problem with playing on a PvP server.
I had been thinking I wouldn’t play on the PvE server I’ve been advocating, but now realize I will probably end up needing one.
I am a PvP sometimes person. I like PvP combat – especially defending cities.
What I loved about the EQnext was their design features for PvP conflict and is continued in AoC as Node v Node conflict…
(what Steven calls “meaningful PvP”). That actually flipped my kill switch to aggressor. I’ve been looking forward to blowing stuff up in enemy territory and killing any player characters that try to stop me.
But last night I remembered that what sends me over to the PvE servers is that I am a casual player. So, my threshold for PvP combat is about 60 minutes. I get pissed off when people attack me while I’m off harvesting and waiting for the flag timer to expire. I get pissed about being forced into PvP combat when I’m not in the mood for PvP combat. Especially problematic while I’m not in the mood but still flagged.
In AOC, being attacked while I’m flagged as combatant does not give my attacker any corruption. And being flagged actually encourages PvPers to attack me rather than any non-combatants who might be around.
Surrounding myself with other players to “protect me” is not going to work.My paladin can’t just suddenly say, “Sorry, guys I’m done with PvP combat now. Watch my back please, but if we get attacked, I’m not helping you out. Hope you don’t die! Thanks! I’ll just be over here picking daisies.”
Funny how the PvPers always present things as if they’re gonna win while “protecting ” non-combatants.
Corruption is not an adequate deterrent. Not even close.
My hope has been that we can find a way for PvE-Only folk, PvP combat sometimes folk and PvP combat always folk can all share the same server. But , that is unlikely to happen when the PvP-always perspective is typically “grow a pair” “we will fight for you” and “if you’re flagged as a combatant it’s OK for me to kill you”.
It is likely to be just about as bad as it always was – and in some cases worse.
But, we’ve got a couple years to wait and we don’t even know if it will be released.
There really should be no concern about scaring people away from the game.
The Kickstarter is already a success.
When we get into the game, we will have a better idea about how well we get along.
And, if the concerns actually get resolved… everyone will know months before release.
</blockquote>
It’s not going to happen. They are dead set on making this a PVP game. They just announced in their live stream that even cities will not be safe zones. Good luck guys. I hope you enjoy the game.
[/quote]
At least you didnt have to wait long. I like the fact they are attempting to dispel issues right away. Going forward it should be much easier for those who remain to digest the PvP aspects of the game and discern if thats the kind of game they want to play. I for one greatly appreciate the clarity.
[/quote]
The devs said they want to go with a guard system for cities and they are considering making freeholds safe spaces(expect during node siege).