Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I think it's better to keep this discussion in the few we have rather than create new ones.
If you're done with discussion, you can just be done whenever you want.
This is what has happened over the last 10+ years of MMORPGs and guess what? They have failed. So no MMORPGS do not need to be fully inclusive. You just believe that because you believe every game should be built for everyone. Guess what? MMORPGS are a niche genera not a one that is made for everyone.[/quote]
The failure of old school MMORPGs is having an endgame.
Which is why we need revolutionary games like EQNext and AoC which use "PvP conflict" and "Building/Destruction" to continually drive content and kill the concept of endgame.
"Don't split the community" and "doesn't need to be fully inclusive" - seems like they contradict each other.
Slavery is when your forced to do something and you dont have free will. You are at the beck and call of a master. No one is forcing you to do anything you dont want to do. [/quote]
That is exactly what I meant. Yes.
Hardcore PvPers frequently force casual PvPers and PvE ers to engage in PvP combat against their will.
Which is why casual PvPers and PvEers tend to move to PvE-Only servers.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/23/#post-20748" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
This is what has happened over the last 10+ years of MMORPGs and guess what? They have failed. So no MMORPGS do not need to be fully inclusive. You just believe that because you believe every game should be built for everyone. Guess what? MMORPGS are a niche genera not a one that is made for everyone.
</blockquote>
The failure of old school MMORPGs is having an endgame.
Which is why we need revolutionary games like EQNext and AoC which use “PvP conflict” and “Building/Destruction” to continually drive content and kill the concept of endgame.
“Don’t split the community” and “doesn’t need to be fully inclusive” – seems like they contradict each other.
[/quote]
Each server will develop differently depending on what nodes are unlocked. The plan being that no two servers will be the same in how they progress driven by player exploration and development That inherently splits the community. That inherently contradicts being inclusive...
@keth The community is not defined by a single server. That's dumb. This is the community. These forums, these posts, these voices. That is the community that the Devs are referring to and then some. Everyone who plays MMOs all over the world for fun and enjoyment is the community that you are shrinking down to a server. Stop.
again @ Dygz No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Intrepid is providing an environment where they believe that PvE and PvP will blend in something that they feel will not only be fun and creative but unique and original. Again, not chained to the desk. Walk away if it is not for you. This will not change.
@Helzbelz You may 10 years in the MMO community. Apparently you don't have 10 years communicating with it. There is not a single MMO out there that has ended up catering to both communities PvE and PvP. Furthermore, to say that all MMOs over the last ten years have failed is just dumb. EQ was the start of a gaming revolution. It bred creativity and innovation who's torch was carried on in World of Warcraft, which was hugely successful. There is no argument that can be made that would paint WoW as a failure. The first two expansions are some of the best MMO content that can be experienced.
Each server will develop differently depending on what nodes are unlocked. The plan being that no two servers will be the same in how they progress driven by player exploration and development That inherently splits the community. That inherently contradicts being inclusive…[/quote]
haha. Yes having separate servers at all seems like it would split the community.
The way I interpreted this back in the EQNext days is that, yes, I have friends who are hardcore PvPers and I would love to play alongside them on the same server - build a city together, defend a city together, visit their homes- instead of being split on a PvE server and a PvP server.
But, PvE folk and casual PvP folk are always pushed off of PvP servers so I don't know how that's go to work.
Most of the threads where we discussed how to keep everyone all the playstyles on the same server ended up in people getting banned for a week and the threads locked.
Because every time the PvEs and casual PvPers offered a suggestion, the hardcore PvPers would rage.
And every time the hardcore PvPers would offer a suggestion, the PvEers and casual PvPers would rage.
I thought that Steven was saying the Intrepid devs had solutions for keeping all the playstyles on the same server: PvErs and PvPers.
But, turns out, what he really meant is they have a solution for keeping Crafters and hardcore PvPers on the same server.
I don't see any solutions for PvEers and casual PvPers.
The PvPers seems to be saying AoC is not for us. That we should not be a part of the community. While at the same time saying they don;t want to split the community.
I'll be interested to see how many casual PvPers end up sticking around once they actually try out the game.
If they don’t attack you back, the honorable thing to do is to let them live.
If they attack you back, it is also honorable for you to kill them.
If they don’t attack you back,and you kill them, you are dishonorable and your avatar will gain corruption.[/quote]
Thats not how the current system works is it? I thought you get corruption either way but you get more if they don't fight back.
[quote quote=20545]“They are from an enemy region – everyone from there is kill on sight to me!”[/quote]
not really what I was going for but I guess the gankers and what not would take it that way.
(back when i played archeage more of my friends were pirates/enemy faction than my faction lol)
[quote quote=20545]I’m not sure how you’re going to recognize people from a rival node just by sight, but that won’t really matter because people will be doing things that negatively affect your node. The primary thing to do will be to stop them from doing whatever that is. Killing them might be the easiest way to do that.[/quote]
In that quote from the other thread I said "(this idea also requires people to have their city of citizenship listed in a way that others can see)". I would assume most players will be aware of and up to date on; the interactions between their Node and the other nodes in the world.
It is not a trigger. That is how it feels when PvEs and casual PvPers are forced into PvP combat against their wills.
That is why they play on a separate server and say that PvPers are griefers.
I'm avoiding using the clearer analogy because that really will trigger folk.
PvPers forcing PvErs and casual PvPers to participate in PvP combat against their will also is not fun. But, PvPers do it anyways.
[quote]The community is not defined by a single server. That’s dumb. This is the community. These forums, these posts, these voices. That is the community that the Devs are referring to and then some. Everyone who plays MMOs all over the world for fun and enjoyment is the community that you are shrinking down to a server. Stop.[/quote]
Right. So then how would having a separate PvE server split the community if we would still be connected via forums and social media, etc???
[quote]No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Intrepid is providing an environment where they believe that PvE and PvP will blend in something that they feel will not only be fun and creative but unique and original. Again, not chained to the desk. Walk away if it is not for you. This will not change.[/quote]
Has nothing to do with being chained to a desk and everything to do with what happens when PvEers, casual PvPers and hardcore PvPers share the same virtual space. The PvPers force the PvEers and casual PvPers to PvP combat against their wills to the extent that they either move to a PvE-only server or quit playing the game.
No one is forcing anyone to play the game, but that has nothing to do with the point.
[quote]There is not a single MMO out there that has ended up catering to both communities PvE and PvP. Furthermore, to say that all MMOs over the last ten years have failed is just dumb. EQ was the start of a gaming revolution. It bred creativity and innovation who’s torch was carried on in World of Warcraft, which was hugely successful. There is no argument that can be made that would paint WoW as a failure. The first two expansions are some of the best MMO content that can be experienced.[/quote]
Any game with a PvE server and PvP server tries to accommodate those playstyles. Same for any game that has zones designated for PvP space.
EQ and WoW haven't failed. people have been playing them for over 15 years now. People are tired of the endgame. Time for the next generation of MMORPG. It would be great to have everyone happily playing the same game. if we could just figure out how to make that happen.
Which is challenging, but MMORPGs are all about challenge, right?
If they don’t attack you back, the honorable thing to do is to let them live.
If they attack you back, it is also honorable for you to kill them.
If they don’t attack you back,and you kill them, you are dishonorable and your avatar will gain corruption.[/quote]
Thats not how the current system works is it? I thought you get corruption either way but you get more if they don't fight back.
[quote quote=20545]“They are from an enemy region – everyone from there is kill on sight to me!”[/quote]
not really what I was going for but I guess the gankers and what not would take it that way.
(back when i played archeage more of my friends were pirates/enemy faction than my faction lol)
[quote quote=20545]I’m not sure how you’re going to recognize people from a rival node just by sight, but that won’t really matter because people will be doing things that negatively affect your node. The primary thing to do will be to stop them from doing whatever that is. Killing them might be the easiest way to do that.[/quote]
In that quote from the other thread I said "(this idea also requires people to have their city of citizenship listed in a way that others can see)". I would assume most players will be aware of and up to date on; the interactions between their Node and the other nodes in the world.
(this post removed itself....weird)
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/23/#post-20748" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
This is what has happened over the last 10+ years of MMORPGs and guess what? They have failed. So no MMORPGS do not need to be fully inclusive. You just believe that because you believe every game should be built for everyone. Guess what? MMORPGS are a niche genera not a one that is made for everyone.
</blockquote>
The failure of old school MMORPGs is having an endgame.
Which is why we need revolutionary games like EQNext and AoC which use “PvP conflict” and “Building/Destruction” to continually drive content and kill the concept of endgame.
“Don’t split the community” and “doesn’t need to be fully inclusive” – seems like they contradict each other.
[/quote]
I think your pretty darn close to right here actualy, but also wrong. You need to peace the game so people can get off sometimes. My guild in BDO broke top 10 and had some very active player, but as time went by the lack of something to say "your done for now go have fun" made that game hard to play. Always forever getting stronger and ahve the exact same pvp fight over and over again is not an MMO. If your always fightings for the same fortress for month it get's stale. If your always trying to level up and gear your character it gets stale. You need to make it so the content can tell you; that your character is done in one area and can refocus else where for a while.
In this vein i think having a moving level cap will be very important to keeping the game interesting. A relatively easy to attain level gap, with a much harder to get to gear cap between. I think this is probably the best way to keep progression from getting to stale. Wow does this, but the gear grind last too long and it's just jumping from one gear grind to another with large gaps force players to hit thier head against the same grind for long periods of time.
I think if AoC has gear grind and level grinds that are spiced well and potentially spiced well with pvp. You could have an interesting game. Looking at BDO that game was pretty great, but you were stuck forever in this gear/level grind and the advantage for each level and each piece of gear was so great that thier was no time to rest if you wanted to stay near the top. While, pve content eas so much of a joke, and you either could do the content easily or die repeatedly against overly punishing mechanics that were easily avoided.
As for AoC's PVPvs PVE prioirity. All MMOs have a large pvp element known as leveling and all have dungeons and such. Making these parts of contents just turn them into silly joke level gear grind that you do as busy work, and isn't actually the fun part of the game. We as MMO player have experience this in every MMO we've played even if we are more PVP or PVE oriented. I don't think anyone could make a valid arguement for this part of the game to be terrible. It is down right unacceptable to ahve a part of the game you are kind of required to play if you want to get the best experience, but have it be terrible and unfun to do. Additionally, it is new PVE content that brings people back into the game when MMOs have big patches or expansions. This simply can't be ignored. PVE is not a choice if it's not good your simply taking away from the game period.
PVP is a choice a MMO can exist and do well with the majority of it's player base ignoring this aspect of the game. FFXIV & WoW are games that are doing relatively well in the MMO space with PvP definitely being a side focus. To argue these games arn't doing really well would be laughable. Now that isn't to say that PVP isn't important, and in every MMO pvp or pve focus thier is always a large community of the player base that wants to pvp in these games, and in games like Archeage and BDO( i only list games i play so might be better examples) these games have made PVP a core focus. In pvp games though it's hard to make content where a patch can reinvigorate people to come back and play for the PVP content. Even looking at ESO which arguable has a large PVP focus many of it's patches all patches even PVP focused have large PVE focuses. Even EVE which is a very much PVP focused game most active time is spent on PVE content to gather resources to do PVP with.
So, i think putting PVP or PVE down is kind of silly, but i definitely don't think you can ignore PVE as it is the world. PVE is the game your playing. Don't encourage any MMO to produce weak sauce PVE content that isn't worth playing just to give you an excuse to waste time and keep you from getting bored of the PVP too fast. The closest you can get to all PVP is area style games like For honor, call of duty, chivalry, etc. This games are MMORPGs because they lack the world part, and the world is the PVE.
There is a PvP combat bubble around caravans.
[/quote]
False. It's a flagging system. You get 3 options when being close to a caravan. You can either attack it, defend it or ignore it. The so called free pvp will only be between attackers and defenders. So if you chose to ignore it your can stay in the area and still be safe.
You're funny. WOW did cater to both PVE and PVP communities very well from the start. The PROBLEM is they kept catering to the masses that well wanted shit for free. And YES while WOW was successful, it was only successful from Vanilla until the end of the TBC. After that Subscriptions have been up and down and now they are cratering. You know the common theme why? Because shit is too easy. So while WOW is not a failure the last 10 years have been a failure. Everything from LOTRO, to DDO , to Rift to SWTOR to even FFXIV. Its because every one of these games just copied WOW and tried to be more successful than WOW. Yet that is a failure of the industry, it does not matter what people say. The Truth is not every game has to copy WOW which has happened for over 10 years now. That is a FAILURE. Its also a failure to think that every game has to have more than a few hundred thousand players and a failure to think that every game has to cater to every person. That is why the Genera has FAILED.
Just remember this will not be your traditional WOW like Gear and Level Grinds. It will be more SWG like where it will not feel like a Grind.
Thats not how the current system works is it? I thought you get corruption either way but you get more if they don’t fight back.[/quote]
The way it currently works is that you get a corruption score if you kill a non-combatant.
If you attack a non-combatant, they will auto-flag as a combatant if they fight back and then whoever dies will just get half the normal death penalty.
[quote]not really what I was going for but I guess the gankers and what not would take it that way.
(back when i played archeage more of my friends were pirates/enemy faction than my faction lol)[/quote]
haha. "I am a pirate, everyone from the enemy region is KOS to me!" is still kinda the same thing we've already seen.
I guess I would expect pirates to be hunting for gold or other treasure. Stealing resources would seemingly be more important than killing people - unless they tried to stop you. I could especially see pirates trying to blow up "enemy" ships or trying to board them and steal stuff. I generally don't think of pirates as common robber, but maybe threatening to kill folk for stuff.
Ha. i think i would love to see a gang of pirates trying to taunt people into hitting first them first so they could have an honorable fight...then the pirates loot them... no corruption.
I'm really hoping i can get Steven to start sharing some AoC examples of Node v Node conflict.
I have some EQNext examples, but I would love some AoC ones.
[quote]In that quote from the other thread I said “(this idea also requires people to have their city of citizenship listed in a way that others can see)”. I would assume most players will be aware of and up to date on; the interactions between their Node and the other nodes in the world.[/quote]
Ah. I missed that, I guess. I'd be surprised to see that, but interesting to see how they implement - if they do.
Anyways, I think you will be able to work with the corruption system just fine, based on what you've said so far.
Just don't kill people who don't fight back... (too often).
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/22/#post-20570" rel="nofollow">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/22/#post-20512" rel="nofollow">NightshadeRaven wrote:</a></div>
I was going to grab quotes from all the various posts but I would have ended up with a wall of text and my content would have been missed.
I am not foreign to PVP, I have played a lot of games where PVP was part of the game mechanics. Some games did it well others did a band-aid solution. I have encountered all types of PVPers but at the end of the day if they kill you what do they kill just pixels. Maybe you will have a hissy fit for 5 mins or rage quit. In the end its just a game. All you lose is a bit of time and some inconvenience.
With PVP Gankers or Griefers these are people who find pleasure in tormenting other players. If what I read is correct, these people will not enjoy the game much as there are consequences.
I would like to see that once a red or purple player enters a town they get killed by the guards. But to also have it that death is not a way to have a clean slate. Make it that you have to work your butt off to remove all that corruption you accumulated during your crime of passion.
For the people who dont mind either PVE or PVP but want to be selective when you do switch sides well tough, it all comes to cause and effect. You need to take the good with the bad.
Now to the OP, what would you do if you had a npc monster just outside a town that once you appeared it would kill you and it would do this many times. What would you do, you cant complain its another player, but this mechanic is stopping you doing what you want. How will you over come it.
We need to help the devs not complain about it, suggest ways to make it fair for all. That in turn will make a better game for all and not for the few.
</blockquote>
I too would both like to see consequences “stick” with a player for more than just passing through the resurrection shrine and more PVP skeptics to give the game a shot by A. Recognize that it is a game, B. Embrace it and learn how to take precautions, and C. Possibly come to enjoy being part of a great group and the enjoyment that comes with working together in a world where everyone else is a potential threat.
Being able to shed all past misdeeds by dying in game whether through legit bounty hunting, meeting your match, or by tricky “gaming of the system” isn’t much of a deterrent for the determined. I suggest that a character has a long “cooldown” on corruption like a “record” of some type. Each time they regain corruption their past actions influence how much they gain. THIS IS WHERE INTREPID WILL NEED TO SHOW THIER RESOLVE for keeping bad acts to a minimal level. How exactly their mechanics thwart determination to be “bad”. How their mechanics withstand being “gamed” by clever players. I can’t wait to see if they can succeed!
<span class=”d4pbbc-underline” style=”text-decoration: underline;”>For players uncertain about PVP games</span>
In these kinds of games, being in a good “group” or “guild” makes a HUGE difference. It changes and makes better almost everything about such games. Even for those that normally run as “lone wolves” when they play MMOs
</blockquote>
You mean a time based corruption decay system ?
Perhaps one thats decay slows down with amplitude.
In effect, the occasional murder per day, might not take too long for corruption to wear off.
But some oen that has an immense amount of corruption, will not only take a long time to wear off, but the decay rate of the corruption will also slow down.
Taking even longer to wear off than normal.
Thus the punishment fits the crime.
A murderer will be punished.
A mass murderer on a killing spree simply wont be able to escape the punishment…and be eternally damned.
[/quote]
Well I don't want any player to be eternally debuffed unless he/she is a completely uncontrolled reprobate, in which case they should just be banhammered. Something like more severe penalties that count your past record and the time between your last kill spree all adding to your current corruption. But also YES, if your score is very high then a single death should not remove it. Would like to hear or read more on the specifics even if they are in fluid development right now.
A death will only remove a percentage of your corruption. So unless you are barely a red player a single death will remove your corruption but if you are an asshat well then it should take you countless deaths to remove your corruption if ever if you continue being an asshat.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20217" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
I believe an MMO should be fully inclusive or it failed.
</blockquote>
This is what has happened over the last 10+ years of MMORPGs and guess what? They have failed. So no MMORPGS do not need to be fully inclusive. You just believe that because you believe every game should be built for everyone. Guess what? MMORPGS are a niche genera not a one that is made for everyone.
[/quote]
Except ESO isolated everyone from each other for years with the vertical levelling system.
So they scaled everyone, then made all content available to everyone.
The result was everyone, could player with each other anywhere anytime.
The numbers doubled.
So. Wrong.
How about you just wait till they actually show the PvP system in full action, then post your concerns and complaints.
Is this official?
I agree with it but would like to see much harsher punishment if that same user continues to killed non flagged players over and over again after clearing his corruptions. Hopefully, the game keep track of that players history of their corruption status.
How about you just wait till they actually show the PvP system in full action, then post your concerns and complaints.
[/quote]
Some people want reassurances before they jump into the KS.
I disagree.
Initially, I would just stop playing once I hit hell levels and after i played through all the races and classes I was interested.
Originally played for several months at a time because the genre was so new and fun to explore. Plus there was nothing else to play.
As soon as new games came out, everyone would jump on those - just as we do now. Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot.
I refused to play Shadowbane because it was to hardcore PvP. That was a failure. Anarchy Online.
And, then, by the time we explored the new games a bit, an new EQ expansion would be out and the previous content would be a little easier.
Sure, gamers who were hardcore challenge/hardcore time stuck around longer...pushing through to endgame and then camping uber mobs and raiding. And all that stuff was super-super tedious. And back then most gamers were young enough to be hardcore challenge dudes under 30 - students, no wives or kids... they could invest hardcore time. We all aged as time went by.
Lots of gamers who used to be hardcore challenge now only have casual time to play. So they need challenges that can be completed more quickly than camping a mob for hours or spending hours just waiting for the raid to form.
After 15 years...now that the genre is relatively old - those time sinks just aren't funny any more.
Go kill 500 <ul>xxx</ul> feels like a time sink. Doesn't matter what level you are.
About once every 18 months I try jumping back into WoW... and last about 2 days.
The treadmill just isn't fun. Cataclysm was tons of fun because it fit my role as Druid.
Vanilla NWO was fun. The first module for that game was not fun. I played a couple days of that beta. Felt tedious.
And decided I was probably done with MMORPGs until they come up with something that's revolutionary.
Not just a WoW expansion but a WoW 2.0. Not just an EQ2 but something more revolutionary than EQ2 is over EQ1.
And then SOE revealed EQNext. Which is exactly what I was hoping for. Brilliant, revolutionary design.
Ashes of Creations is the successor of that design. Which is why I'm backing it.
It would be nice if the devs also include a place that includes PvEers and casual PvPers instead of just focusing on Crafters and hardcore PvPers.
Steven says their open to giving the community some of what they want, so I'm going to continue to nudge 'em until the game launches.
We'll see what we end up with.
If the game releases, it's going to be a huge boon to the genre even if it does only accommodate Crafters and hardcore PvPers.
Hopefully, subsequent games in the genre will also follow the EQNext design pillars... and include PvErs and hardcore PvPers.
We've got 2 years to discuss how we can accommodate Crafters, PvErs, casual PvPers and hardcore PvPers co-existing on the same server. Even though it is likely impossible.
Lots of people do! Yeah.
How about you just wait till they actually show the PvP system in full action, then post your concerns and complaints.[/quote]
Better to discuss while changes are more easily made rather than after the features are basically set in stone.
Caravans are vital to the economy, more than in Archeage, and there PvP is free (actually encouraged).
Guilds are vital to certain kind of players, and guild alliance and GvG are great part of the game again.
And then you got guild sieges and city sieges... the real stuff.
And finally, the arenas: not just for glory and gear, but certain nodes can be won by arena fighting only. I guess there might be a multiplayer arena as well, other than a simple tournament to elect the leader of a city.
With all this REAL PvP getting in your way (and notice: almost all optional, except for the caravans, possibly), even the most hardcore PvPers should find their satisfaction, without preying over the carebears. After all, there was so much going around the PvP opt-in arenas and PvP events in Age of Wulin that even with NO SAFE ZONE, and even an incentive to open PvP kill each other (reward points!), I witnessed open world PvP only five or six times in one year of game.
So, with a death penalty as high as the one proposed, and with all that PvP you can get without flagging yourself, I think there will be very little open world PvP.
Will PvE-only players get killed? Probably yes, once or twice in year. Is this acceptable? I think it is, it gives a hint of thrill to the exploration side of the game -- the fact that you MIGHT get killed, even if it will happen oh so rarely, or that you MIGHT kill, if you really, really, really got so pi***d that you think the other player really deserves a lesson, even if that will cost you more than it will cost to him.
How about you just wait till they actually show the PvP system in full action, then post your concerns and complaints.
</blockquote>
Better to discuss while changes are more easily made rather than after the features are basically set in stone.
</blockquote>
The developers have already shared their opinion on this for now. They are going with open world pvp, and have a guard system in mind to make cities safe. Depending on how it works in alpha, they might change it and make some places into safezones. This is the current state regarding open world pvp. Until we get to Alpha stage 2 this discussion is absolutely pointless. All it does is spreading negativity in the community as it's seen as pacifist players crying rather than a constructive discussion with a real focus on changes and improvments.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/23/#post-20748" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/20/#post-20217" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
I believe an MMO should be fully inclusive or it failed.
</blockquote>
This is what has happened over the last 10+ years of MMORPGs and guess what? They have failed. So no MMORPGS do not need to be fully inclusive. You just believe that because you believe every game should be built for everyone. Guess what? MMORPGS are a niche genera not a one that is made for everyone.
</blockquote>
Except ESO isolated everyone from each other for years with the vertical levelling system.
So they scaled everyone, then made all content available to everyone.
The result was everyone, could player with each other anywhere anytime.
The numbers doubled.
So. Wrong.
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ESO is a joke. Yea population Doubled right after WOW subs dropped. What is going to happen in the next few months? O wait people will get bored and leave. SWTOR did a lot of the same shit before ESO guess what happened there Population went up and now the game is dead. You have no clue what the reality is in MMORPGs. If you did you would know players move around like no tomorrow because the games are boring as hell.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/24/#post-20921" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
A death will only remove a percentage of your corruption. So unless you are barely a red player a single death will remove your corruption but if you are an asshat well then it should take you countless deaths to remove your corruption if ever if you continue being an asshat
</blockquote>
Is this official?
I agree with it but would like to see much harsher punishment if that same user continues to killed non flagged players over and over again after clearing his corruptions. Hopefully, the game keep track of that players history of their corruption status.
</blockquote>
Yes just google quotes from Steven. He does talk about how corruption works. I also might be in the Google Docs. You lose set amounts of corruption per dead not something that is quickly wiped.
This is the ONLY thing you need to say. And I will tell you YES because these games Copied WOW they did the Treadmills that are just not fun anymore. That is because no developer was willing to take a risk because they all thought they would be the next WOW. Time proved the entire genera wrong. Think about this 1 line and you will understand the direction of Ashes and know that they are not creating WOW. Once you understand this you will see what I said is True. I am not saying a WOW clone or two would have been bad BUT every MMORPG since WOW has been a WOW clone. LOTRO, DDO, SWTOR, RIFT, FFXIV and then all the stupid ass backseat MMORPGs like Runes of Magic tried to copy WOW.
The EQNext example is:
The dark elves start killing dryads in order to siphon their Life magic and transmute it into Shadow magic at their transmutation processors in the dark elf city. The Shadow magic augments their gear and spells and abilities, like Stealth. As Life magic is depleted in the dryads' forests, blight begins to spread and the chains holding the Shadow Demons at pay begin to weaken. Unbeknownst to the dark elves, if enough Life magic is depleted, the Shadow Demons will break free and start wantonly killing all of the living they encounter - including the dark elves.
The dark elves and the rest of the player races in the nearby regions work together to send the Shadow Demons back across the Veil.
This pushes players avatars to fight other player avatars directly.
Player avatar druids who are protecting the dryads will very likely attack any dark elves trying to kill the dryads. The dark elves will likely defend themselves. players who learn that the processing plants in the dark elf city is the cause for the blight in their lands will likely want to destroy the processors and attack any avatar dark elves who defend the processors. Player avatar dark elves will very likely attack any avatars trying to blow up the processors.
That's just every day interactions.
That Node v Node conflict drives world change. It's the core of the games design.
I don't think the avatar killing avatar part is crucial - this conflict could be resolved by diplomacy. Especially on a server where the ability for avatars to kill avatars is disabled.
But on a server where PvP combat is enabled, open world PvP combat will likely be quite rampant.
My specific dilemma is that I only enjoy PvP combat for about 60 minutes. And then I am absolutely in no mood whatsover to participate in PvP, but i get attacked while waiting for the PvP flag to cool down.
In AoC, that would mean I'd be a combatant for however long - so no corruption penalty for attacking me in that state.
I'm really wanting to be a non-combatant at that point, but can't unflag. AoC has no resolution for that, as far as I know.
According to the rules of AoC, the person who kills me would not be a PKer. But, from the casual PvP perspective, it basically amounts to the same thing - when I, the player, ask the other player to please leave me alone because I'm tired of PvP combat, I'm just waiting for the flag to switch off.
But, we will see.