Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
You don’t hear the PvPers crying about all the PvE in the game?
Make the game what you make the game. If someone can kill you, even once a day, move on. Does it really bother you that much that you can die in a virtual world to another player…who can actually think? [/quote]
We hear the PvPers in these forums crying about how there are too many PvE MMOs available to play and not enough PvP MMOs.
And how PvP combat is the only way to save the MMORPG genre.
A better analogy would probably be shutting off player trading.
If you have a large part of the player base that hates player trading and would like a server with player trading turned off, sure. Like back in the days of vanilla EQ, where we had to drop items on the ground for other players to pick up, rather than open up a UI that let’s us trade.
Why not give them a server that shuts off the UI for player trading?
Seems to me that a flag that turns off PvP shouldn’t take 20 months of extra work to code. Just like a flag to turn off the ability to use the trade interface shouldn’t take 20 months of extra work to code.
But, if a PvP toggle that shuts off the ability for players to attack each other’s avatars is going to take months of extra work to code, yeah, we’re too late in development for that.
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It does. Just as Crafting is a big part of the game, the open world PvP is as well.
One of the big thing about a Sandbox mmorpg is freedom of choice. The ability to choose to attack someone wereever they want. The ability to become an outlaw if you so wishes. This is a big part of it, and they designed the game in a way were open world pvp has meaning. It doesn't mean that going around and murdering others constantly is what they want, that is why they added penality for doing so etc.
The Open world pvp is to give you the ability to fight for a boss monster or grinding spot, node control, resources etc.
It plays such a big role in the game and the world they are trying to create that removing it would be a missing core feature of the game, just as removing crafting would be a core feature being killed from the game.
Coding wise it would be fairly easy to remove the flagging system, but it would essentially kill the game. We would see many hardcore and pvp players leave after a little while as they would feel limited. PvP players don't mind being heavily punished for PKing others, but they don't want to lose the ability to choose to do so if they wish. PvP players also don't go around and randomly kill others without a reason.
One thing that could be done in order to help protecting life players would be to make so they can't be attacked when doing a life part. For example if they are gathering then they can't be attacked as long as they are gathering. or something like that. But then again, such things will most likely be very rare in the game.
Both PvP players and PvE/Life players are needed in this game. It's made so both can coexist and both are important and needed. Big pvp guilds will need to have alliances with life guilds to keep the node running. There is a place for both sort of players in the world. But it isn't a world were you can be 100% safe. There are risks, and for those risks there are rewards. Steven and his team talked about wanting to bring back the risk vs reward in AoC. By r3emoving open world pvp would be a direct hit against their goal with the game.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-statement-needed-pve-servers-100-flagging-system/page/2/#post-17553" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div>
You don’t hear the PvPers crying about all the PvE in the game?
Make the game what you make the game. If someone can kill you, even once a day, move on. Does it really bother you that much that you can die in a virtual world to another player…who can actually think?
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We hear the PvPers in these forums crying about how there are too many PvE MMOs available to play and not enough PvP MMOs.
And how PvP combat is the only way to save the MMORPG genre.
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For a very long time now mmorpgs have been released with fairly good pvp, then over time been changed to become more safe and casual to the point it's no longer fun for pvp players. Why is it that PvP players aren't allowed to have a game they enjoy (like the one Intrepid is working on), but PvE players apparently are supposed to have every game out there to be catered by them? PvP players tend to accept the PvE and life aspects of the game, why can't you accept that PvP exists in the game as well?
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^^
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Just quoting this to show this message even more.
Crafting is not comparable to the open world.
You then try to jump from open world to sandbox and then from sandbox to freedom of choice.
Freedom of choice should include the freedom to choose to play in an open world that is PvE-only.
If that is not an option then freedom of choice is limited.
Having a PvE-only server does not prevent people on the normal servers from having the freedom of choice to attack whomever they want. So, what you're really saying is that PvPers should be given the freedom to do whatever they want - including forcing players into activities they don't to do, but PvEers should have restricted choice. They must suffer at the whims of the PvPers because PvPers should have all the freedom.
It is possible to roleplay an outlaw on a PvE-only server. Players killing other players is not the only way to play a outlaw.
Again the crafting system equates to the entire combat system.
What's being asked for is to have a portion of the combat system turned off so the crafting equivalent would be to turn off a portion of the crafting. So, if we have to stick with crafting, sure, if a large group of players want to play on a server that shuts off the ability for players to craft armor and weapons. Sure. Why not let them play on that server? If it's easy to create the code that toggles that off?
Again... if that "kills the game" on that server and the population drops below the threshold to keep the server active, sunset the server and then replace it with a normal server.
Why would having a PvE-only server cause hardcore and PvP players leave the game. All the other servers will be the normal design. Having a PvE-only server doesn't prevent PvPers from PvPing and PKing on the normal servers. Having a PvE-Only server does not prevent PvP guilds from forming alliances with PvE/Life players on the normal servers.
I don't why PvPers seem to think that PvE/Life players want to use them for protection. That makes no sense whatsoever.
If I am against players killing players, I'm not going to ask players to kill players.
But, regardless of whether there is a PvE-only server, there will be plenty of players on the normal servers who wish to focus more on non-combatant roles who will be willing to ally with combatants.
PKers typically provide a reason for why they are PKing. that doesn't make their victims feel any better.
The beauty of Ashes of Creation is that it's designed to dynamically churn out seeds that will foment PvP conflict.
The motivations behind PvP combat in Ashes of Creation will feel more compelling and visceral, in general.
Not simply, "Elves killed my family. You're an elf so I'm going to kill you!" Or "I'm a bandit and I'm going to kill and loot you!"
Rather, it's going to be more of, "Your bridge is choking off the fish supply in my river, if you don't remove it, I'm going to blow it up. You probably don't want to be around when I do." And if they get killed while you're destroying the bridge... oops.
All of which can still happen on the normal servers even if there is a PvE-only server. Having a PvE-only server does not mean that the other servers will be PvP-only.
Making it so that non-combatants are actually immune from combat while they do stuff on the normal servers is the worst idea of all. Way, way worse than having a PvE-only server.
That is precisely when the freedom of choice to attack other players will taken from the PvPers. Splitting the playerbase to separate servers is deemed bad by PvPers. Allowing players to be immune from PvP on a server that is OWPVP is like suggesting parents should bake their own children and eat them.
I don't think ganking gatherers will be rare.
If I liked ganking people, I would have alts devoted to that.
The game is designed with the intention that non-combatants will rely on combatants and combatants will rely on non-combatants.
That would remain the case on the normal servers regardless of whether there is a PvE-only server.
If players want to slog through a world that's broken because PvP combat is toggled off on the PvE-only server, why not let them have their fun? If there are enough players to support keeping the server up. And it's not too time-consuming to code?
Having one PvE server does not negatively impact the normal servers.
There are risks and rewards. That remains true regardless of whether there is a pvE only server.
In fact, playing on a server with PvP combat shut off comes with a ton of risks for the players - the possibility of broken game mechanics... what happens if not enough mobs are generated? But if those are the risks those players are willing to take to have the reward of playing on a server free from PvP combat... why not allow them to give it a shot.
Again, that doesn't negatively affect the normal servers.
Crafting is not comparable to the open world.
You then try to jump from open world to sandbox and then from sandbox to freedom of choice.
Freedom of choice should include the freedom to choose to play in an open world that is PvE-only.
If that is not an option then freedom of choice is limited.
Having a PvE-only server does not prevent people on the normal servers from having the freedom of choice to attack whomever they want. So, what you’re really saying is that PvPers should be given the freedom to do whatever they want – including forcing players into activities they don’t to do, but PvEers should have restricted choice. They must suffer at the whims of the PvPers because PvPers should have all the freedom.
It is possible to roleplay an outlaw on a PvE-only server. Players killing other players is not the only way to play a outlaw.
Again the crafting system equates to the entire combat system.
What’s being asked for is to have a portion of the combat system turned off so the crafting equivalent would be to turn off a portion of the crafting. So, if we have to stick with crafting, sure, if a large group of players want to play on a server that shuts off the ability for players to craft armor and weapons. Sure. Why not let them play on that server? If it’s easy to create the code that toggles that off?
Again… if that “kills the game” on that server and the population drops below the threshold to keep the server active, sunset the server and then replace it with a normal server.
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Please just stop you repeating invalid arguments over and over like a mantra, just life with it maybe this is not the game you like because we won't get PvE Servers and the backers showed that they are ok with it because they backed the game in a record time.
Please just stop you repeating invalid arguments over and over like a mantra, just life with it maybe this is not the game you like because we won’t get PvE Servers and the backers showed that they are ok with it because they backed the game in a record time.
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I'll stop repeating my arguments when PvPers stop repeating their invalid arguments.
Crafting is not comparable to the open world.
You then try to jump from open world to sandbox and then from sandbox to freedom of choice.
Freedom of choice should include the freedom to choose to play in an open world that is PvE-only.
If that is not an option then freedom of choice is limited.
Having a PvE-only server does not prevent people on the normal servers from having the freedom of choice to attack whomever they want. So, what you’re really saying is that PvPers should be given the freedom to do whatever they want – including forcing players into activities they don’t to do, but PvEers should have restricted choice. They must suffer at the whims of the PvPers because PvPers should have all the freedom.
It is possible to roleplay an outlaw on a PvE-only server. Players killing other players is not the only way to play a outlaw.
Again the crafting system equates to the entire combat system.
What’s being asked for is to have a portion of the combat system turned off so the crafting equivalent would be to turn off a portion of the crafting. So, if we have to stick with crafting, sure, if a large group of players want to play on a server that shuts off the ability for players to craft armor and weapons. Sure. Why not let them play on that server? If it’s easy to create the code that toggles that off?
Again… if that “kills the game” on that server and the population drops below the threshold to keep the server active, sunset the server and then replace it with a normal server.
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I'll try to explain what I mean one more time, seems like you don't really get it.
The game is built so you need PvP to have PvE, and PvE to have PvP. You can't remove one of them as they need eachother to work. The open world pvp is a core feature, it's essential for the games world to move forward, just as crafting is necessary for the economy in the game to work. Neither can be removed.
A PvE only server would mean that the devs need to basically create two different games. They would need to make seperate patches and balancing for the different servers, thats extra job for them to do, forcing them to work on a version of their game they didn't want to create to begin with.
I have no clue how else I'm supposed to explain this to you. A Version of the game were the open world pvp is removed simply doesn't work, it would destroy the game, just like removing the crafting would destroy the game.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-statement-needed-pve-servers-100-flagging-system/page/3/#post-17712" rel="nofollow">Jackrum wrote:</a></div>
Please just stop you repeating invalid arguments over and over like a mantra, just life with it maybe this is not the game you like because we won’t get PvE Servers and the backers showed that they are ok with it because they backed the game in a record time.
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I’ll stop repeating my arguments when PvPers stop repeating their invalid arguments.
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So you don't know how to argue anymore and just copy pasta what i wrote. 10/10
I understand and i find it also annoying when i quest and im getting pvp'd
This wasn't actually the thrust of my question. The statement was made that "We do not attack and stereotype PVE players," and I was pointing out that, in fact, it goes both ways.
Both crowds can be notoriously distrustful and wary of each other.
I say, spread the love! C'mon people, now, smile on your brother ... dang it. Got ahead of m'self again.
Anyway, look forward to meeting you ingame, if that happens ... ciao!
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-statement-needed-pve-servers-100-flagging-system/#post-17410" rel="nofollow">Jettesnell wrote:</a></div>
Prehaps you should form alliances and cooperate with pvp and pvx guilds that are in your node of interest to protect you.
</blockquote>
This wasn’t actually the thrust of my question. The statement was made that “We do not attack and stereotype PVE players,” and I was pointing out that, in fact, it goes both ways.
Both crowds can be notoriously distrustful and wary of each other.
I say, spread the love! C’mon people, now, smile on your brother … dang it. Got ahead of m’self again.
Anyway, look forward to meeting you ingame, if that happens … ciao!
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Ah okay, my bad :)
Yeah I agree. What I love about the way they aim AoC to be is that all parts are needed in the game. AoC is a home for both PvP, PvE and Life focused players. We esentially need to work together to build and change the world.
The only place i'd say doesnt have a home here are those that can't handle the fact that they can be attacked by anyone anywere. AoC aims to be a world with risk vs reward, something mmos have been missing for a long time. The game isn't made for players like Dygz, and changing it isn't an option either. They either need to accept that this is how the game is made and intended to be, or move on to another game.
ooo, just a fun thing. Guessing some people would be suprised to hear after reading my posts that I am mainly a pve player myself. Exploring the world is what I enjoy the most in mmos, and yeah PKers who just murder for no reason are very annoying. But they are also needed in a game like AoC. Removing them fully would make the world less immersive. ^^
In that, you match my husband; his greatest delight in games is exploration. Literally thrills him to pieces ... he's so cute :-)
I'm also primarily a PVE player; I've done my time on battlegrounds and in forced head-to-head. I rather enjoy a more leisurely approach to gaming now. But I, like you, see the possibilities inherent in this system and, if it's able to be pulled off, would be something I would be willing to enter in to.
I´m not interested in getting ganked all day while i´m just exploring the world or farming some stuff.
Caravans, Sieges, that isn´t the stuff i´m interested in.
They can activate PvP in the nodes when these things happen.
I have no problem moving to another node until the caravan or siege is finished...
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Truth..
But back on topic.. I dont want to see an all PvE server.. And this is coming from someone who plays PvE 99% of the time. The reason for I dont? The vision of this game is already huge. And community centric change is a big part of that. By trying to put that into a static system, would not only not live up to what the vision of AoC is but also cause more complexity in the code.
Let AoC be AoC.
Similarin
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Yeah! Except on a PVE server you have players always undercutting your prices.
You still have players kill stealing your mobs or crowding your grinding spot.
They gather up all the resources before you can get there, even coming over into YOUR GROUPS NODE to harvest the "good stuff"
AND THERE ISN"T A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. :(
What would be the point of caravans in a PvE server? And what about sieges? If the node is being sieged and de-leveled I doubt the PvErs would like to move all the time. If there wouldn't be sieges and node de-leveling it kinda trashes the whole node system.
Why do people keep suggesting PvE servers since they clearly wouldn't work with AoC without changing the main themes we have here?
What would be the point of caravans in a PvE server? And what about sieges? If the node is being sieged and de-leveled I doubt the PvErs would like to move all the time. If there wouldn’t be sieges and node de-leveling it kinda trashes the whole node system.
Why do people keep suggesting PvE servers since they clearly wouldn’t work with AoC without changing the main themes we have here?
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Hypothesis: Game is new and flashy and has new features. Never mind that they don't realize that these great new features, they like, won't work on a PVE server...
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<img src="https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aRe619M_700b.jpg" alt="From atop my castle." />
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Entirely agree. I'm a PvE player myself, so I understand the concern PvE players have with this game. I'm here because of the other interesting mechanics the game has. At the same time, I don't expect the game to bend in my direction and become more PvEish, just because I'm no longer a PvPer. Most of the time, you just have to play the game as she lays. And although I would never, ever tell a another player "if you don't like it, leave; we won't miss you" (that being possibly the stupidest thing any gamer can say), I have no problem deciding a game is not for me and moving on. So, if it is impossible to successfully pursue PvE goals in Ashes then I'm perfectly fine with that. I don't need the game to neuter itself to make me happy. But I won't stay with a game in which I am unhappy.
Hypothesis: Game is new and flashy and has new features. Never mind that they don’t realize that these great new features, they like, won’t work on a PVE server…[/quote]
The new features will work on a PvE server.
The way the players use the features would be considerably different than on the normal servers.
And... if the players on the server decided after giving it a go that the features are so broken that they don't want to play there, the devs could just sunset it and replace it with a normal server.
The philosophy of gameplay there would be similar to the war in A Taste of Armageddon, where the global computer chose the victims of the war from a lottery and those chosen would go to the incinerator at the scheduled time. The sacrifice they make so that their buildings and culture doesn't get destroyed.
On a PvE server, the players would want to schedule a time limit for the existence of every Metropolis before it is destroyed via siege and a new one is built. caravan attacks would probably be scheduled as well.
Same if it's imperative that xxx players need to die before world change needs to occur.
It would be more like directing movies than what occurs on the normal servers.
The point of caravans is to transport a larger load of goods more quickly than can be transported via backpacks or mules. That's true regardless of whether it's a PvE-only server or a normal server.
Players would still attack and destroy caravans, but as scheduled events. And they would be PvE attacks rather than resulting in players killing players. There would still be PvP conflict driving the world change.
The players would simply be cooperatively roleplaying the conflict, rather than killing each other out of competition motivations.
Same for sieges.
It takes months to build a metroplis and months to destroy a metropolis, so people would not be moving "all the time". They'd have way more time to stay in one spot than most people stay playing a typical MMORPG expansion.