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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-statement-needed-pve-servers-100-flagging-system/page/4/#post-17974" rel="nofollow">VelvetBacon wrote:</a></div>
What would be the point of caravans in a PvE server? And what about sieges? If the node is being sieged and de-leveled I doubt the PvErs would like to move all the time. If there wouldn’t be sieges and node de-leveling it kinda trashes the whole node system.
</blockquote>
The point of caravans is to transport a larger load of goods more quickly than can be transported via backpacks or mules. That’s true regardless of whether it’s a PvE-only server or a normal server.
Players would still attack and destroy caravans, but as scheduled events. And they would be PvE attacks rather than resulting in players killing players. There would still be PvP conflict driving the world change.
The players would simply be cooperatively roleplaying the conflict, rather than killing each other out of competition motivations.
Same for sieges.
It takes months to build a metroplis and months to destroy a metropolis, so people would not moving “all the time”. They’d have way more time to stay in one spot than most people stay playing a typical MMORPG expansion.
[/quote]
See you are right this would work. But would it be any fun? The biggest problem a pve only server will always have will be one thing. All content is created by devs of the game. A pve only server is a themepark. Not a sandpark. The content is linear. They have to keep adding additional content into the game such as.different quests different.bossess..raids...etc.
That gametype is possible.. wow has shown that. But is that even fun? The one problem i have always had with that argument is the same problem i had with original wow. When you remove the player interaction and combat and make every character of every class play literally the same why play anymore? AI is rudementary at best. Especially in an mmo. This isnt dark souls where a great combat system and difficult mob ai exist nor are feasable. Fighting players will always be more suprising that anything a dev teams ai can throw at you
So, let's say we get a group of 3 or 4 guys that go out with the intent of fouling up the progress of a rival node. They will work on the perimeter seeking out mismatches where they can move in, kill and move on quickly. Eventually, it's to be expected they will become corrupted... bounty hunters in the area will now see them on the map. They will retreat to a designated safe area at that point where many options will be available to them.
1. Ambush... 3 logoff and get on noncorrupted characters while 1 sits to lure the bounty hunters in. Or perhaps all await in their corrupted state and guildmates join them who incidentally won't be seen on the map.
2. They simply work to clear the corruption flag, either by having alts kill the corrupted character or by some other mechanism within game. This could require nothing more than logging off for a time with that particular character.
Either way, the intent of the corruption system is negated with very little effort.
Should you be fortunate to kill one while corrupted, it's not like they will be carrying anything of value I can assure you.
Best of all, there's a legitimate reason for this activity in denying the growth of a rival node.
The corruption system honestly doesn't even belong in the game. The opposing nodes have every right to look to supporting their nodes and to oppose rival nodes who threaten them. Just because you are listed as a non-combatant doesn't give you a right to impact other nodes, even if it is via crafting or gathering, negatively with impunity.
The corruption system is a false hope presented to the PvE customer to introduce them to a PvP game. Many will leave and I'm certain dev's are aware of that, but some will try the game and discover they like it and stay.
What I listed above is just 1 way the corruption system can be negated with little effort. There are several ways to accomplish the same thing. Spare yourself the heartache if you don't like PvP because unless you're working within a group prepared to fight at a moments notice, you will always be vulnerable.
You are farming a precious rare resource that only spawns once every 12 hours. Someone else who has no idea about it notices you waiting there and now they are interested in whats going on. They wait for it to spawn but because of lag/ping they click faster than you and get your resource - Nothing you can do but wait another 12 hours for it to respawn.
Scenario PVP server.
You are farming a precious rare resource that only spawns once every 12 hours. Someone else who has no idea about it notices you waiting there and now they are interested in whats going on. They wait for it to spawn but because of lag/ping they click faster than you and get your resource - You can attempt to pvp or call your friends to back you up while you do this.
You are farming a precious rare resource that only spawns once every 12 hours. Someone else who has no idea about it notices you waiting there and now they are interested in whats going on. They wait for it to spawn but because of lag/ping they click faster than you and get your resource – Nothing you can do but wait another 12 hours for it to respawn.[/quote]
I'd be happy to wait. I am a cooperative player rather than a competitive player.
First of all, let's not make this discussion into another PVEr VS PVPr. That debate is old and irrelevant. We are all players. We enjoy games and we are thrilled about Ashes of Creation as it seems so promising for a large number of reasons and for different type of gamers. We just enjoy game differently and there is no reasons to fight against each other on the forums.
There is no real reasons for players that enjoy PVP to not want a PVE server. As Ashes of Creation is not using the megaserver technology and as the concept of the game itself rely heavily on having different servers that has a different progression/story/advancement there will be multiple servers. Therefor it is possible from technical and business point of view to have some servers with a 100% flag system. It is possible.
To have this choice, will not remove from "PVPer" the pleasure of their game. On the contrary, it will even be healthier for those players, as it would ensure the "PVEr" will gather on differents servers than their own, allowing PVP servers to be more dynamic, more centred on conflict.
It is also important to note than PVErs do not mean "hate on PVP". It generaly mean "I like to choose when I PVP." Very often players that roll on PVE servers are players that want to relax, and are not interested into feeling this underlying stress of maybe being killed when exploring or questing, which PVPers seems to enjoy very much.
PVP exist on PVE servers. The only difference is that players are protected from PKing allowing them to play in a relaxed way and not being disturbed.
There is several reasons why I'm personally in favour of creating PVE server (with 100%) flagging
<li> Some players prefer to choose when to PVP. Some players want to avoid it completely because it make them nervous and because they are bad at it. 100% flagging would ensure those players to be able to participate in PVP when they so desire, and to completely avoid it when they do not desire it.
PVP and PVE servers tent to have a very different atmosphere. I believe it's beneficial for both type of players to be able to gather with like-minded players. PVPers will ensure themselves to have dynamic, competitive and combative communities, while PVErs will be able to play in a more relaxed way.
To have PVE server doesn't betray the original version of the game. It just allow to have more relaxing communities to also exist and enjoy the game.</li>
In the end, there will be advantages to play on a PVP server, and advantage to play on a PVE server. Each players can choose what kind of server they prefer to play on. Each players can enjoy fully the game the way they want to experience it.
And lastely, regarding the argument "Its not the visions of the game" ... Well, Steven had his vision when he conceptualised the game, but maybe he didn't expected so many players to want to play it. Maybe he was not expecting his game to also attract players that want to experience a game in a more relaxing way. Maybe he didn't expected all of this, and therefor, the discussion has its place, its important to discuss about it and for the devs to think about what they want to do.
Personally, I've backed the game, I'm going to play it regardless of the decision taken on this matter. I'm clearly more a PVEr, and a relaxed player, but I can stomach and accept to be killed by the random PKer. If I'm getting ganked too hard and it ruin my mood, I can just turn off the game and do something else. But, I stand my point, and I believe that everyone would beneficiate from this. If it doesn't happen, you know as well as me that PVP guilds tent to gather on specific servers to battle each others, and that there will be concensual RP server and PVE server.
Dear OP:
You’re coming to a steakhouse and complaining that there are no gluten-free vegan dishes. This steakhouse, by design, serves up competition by murder. The folks who have bought into this game and put good money into the Kickstarter are bloodmouths who do not mind PvP to take center stage of what we do: the constant power struggle among not just players, but the <em>organizations</em> the players belong to. That was the concept pitched to us in the beginning: old MMO gamers like I got tired of MMOs of recent times which gave welfare loot for free, and made things so easy it was no longer challenging, and in turn it wasn’t fun anymore.
Unlike you, we in this steakhouse like our food a bit on the raw side, and when we cut into it, we like to see blood seep into the bottom of our platters. There are more than enough MMOs out there which serve up safe and bland fare, and you do not lack for options already. Please don’t walk into our steakhouse and call us “<em>another stupid ganker</em>” for liking our meat.
Addendum: since progression of nodes is inexorably linked to the contribution of every single player in the node, the safety and well-being of every PVE player counts. If you're savvy enough, you'd hitch your bandwagon to a guild/alliance which is best capable of providing security and safeguarding you, because it's the <em>resident organization's best interests to protect you. </em>
I have never eaten at a steakhouse where I was forced to eat a steak when I wasn’t in the mood for steak.
The security and safeguard delusion PvPers have is like wanting to eat a salad at a steakhouse, but being told I have to purchase a steak in order to get the salad.
I’m told I don’t have to eat the steak. I can let the people at the next table eat it for me.
I bought into this game at the $200 price point. PvP conflict will be the catalyst for change. PvP combat doesn't have to be a factor for those changes to occur. By PvP combat I specifically mean players killing players. Sieges and caravan attacks are primarily PvE combat for PvP conflict. Players killing players could be a result of that PvE combat, but doesn't inherently have to take place.
The players can cooperatively roleplay the power struggles of the characters without competing player v player even on a PvE-only server (if such a server were available). As in the players running characters in rival regions could coordinate when a caravan attack is schedule to take place. And could even work together to craft the items that would be stolen during the attack.
A PvE server would have a very different set of challenges, ensuring that sieges and caravan attacks still occur rather than allowing Metropolises to stand forever and stagnating the story.
You've laid out the key issue well.
The PVPers want an MMOG. They don't really care about the RP.
The PvEers care more about the MMORP and abhor the competitive Game aspects of players killing players.
Pretty much everyone is tired of the old MMORPGs - endgame is a feature that needs to die.
We're all awaiting for the revolutionary tech that will allow us to ever quest new content.
Which is what these EQNext/AoC designs offer. But the key is the PvP conflict; not the PvP combat.
And I have a feeling that even if it's too late for the devs to provide a separate PvE-Only server, it would still be best to provide a server designated for casual players.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-statement-needed-pve-servers-100-flagging-system/page/4/#post-18136" rel="nofollow">Dygz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/official-statement-needed-pve-servers-100-flagging-system/page/4/#post-17974" rel="nofollow">VelvetBacon wrote:</a></div>
What would be the point of caravans in a PvE server? And what about sieges? If the node is being sieged and de-leveled I doubt the PvErs would like to move all the time. If there wouldn’t be sieges and node de-leveling it kinda trashes the whole node system.
</blockquote>
The point of caravans is to transport a larger load of goods more quickly than can be transported via backpacks or mules. That’s true regardless of whether it’s a PvE-only server or a normal server.
Players would still attack and destroy caravans, but as scheduled events. And they would be PvE attacks rather than resulting in players killing players. There would still be PvP conflict driving the world change.
The players would simply be cooperatively roleplaying the conflict, rather than killing each other out of competition motivations.
Same for sieges.
It takes months to build a metroplis and months to destroy a metropolis, so people would not moving “all the time”. They’d have way more time to stay in one spot than most people stay playing a typical MMORPG expansion.
</blockquote>
See you are right this would work. But would it be any fun? The biggest problem a pve only server will always have will be one thing. All content is created by devs of the game. A pve only server is a themepark. Not a sandpark. The content is linear. They have to keep adding additional content into the game such as.different quests different.bossess..raids…etc.
That gametype is possible.. wow has shown that. But is that even fun? The one problem i have always had with that argument is the same problem i had with original wow. When you remove the player interaction and combat and make every character of every class play literally the same why play anymore? AI is rudementary at best. Especially in an mmo. This isnt dark souls where a great combat system and difficult mob ai exist nor are feasable. Fighting players will always be more suprising that anything a dev teams ai can throw at you
[/quote]
Agreed.
At the end of the day PvE is scripted events.
They may be dynamic scripted events, but they will always be scripted.
Scripted means predictable and bottable and boring as * most of the time.
Especially once you (and your groupmates) can memorise the scripts.
Like entering that same identical dungeon for the 100th time where you are watching sport on the other screen.
Because that all the attention the game now requires.
If I play a game, I want to be glued to the screen while playing it.
Because my in game life may well depend on it.
I want every dungeon to be as difficult and heart pounding as the 1st time I entered it.
I want to experience that moment with others too.
Where we watch each others backas and keep each other alive.
Because its not about whose best.....its about protecting each other.
Be it friend or stranger.