Sexualization of women from a woman's perspective

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  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    MADE said:
    Alazon said:
    Something I have noticed as of late is some women gamers complaining of sexualization of the female characters in a game in terms of aesthetics.
    That's not true. The complainers aren't gamers, but feminazis and other SJW "peoples". They generally aren't or rarely play games. A true gamer starts around 6hour/day game play.

    On the other hand the SJW-s have big voice despite they usually doesn't even play with the game that they criticize.

    Also a little help for you: format your text cause no one really want to read a unformated wall fo text. Use at least sections.
    Dear @MADE  you seem to know a lot about women so I will bow to your knowledge... because I'm confused, as you mentioned elsewhere, I probably should just focus on the cooking, but I really want to learn from someone as wise as yourself...

    As a woman who believes in equality for all genders, would you class me as a social justice warrior?

    Even though my own stance asks for equal costume choices for all genders, and for ashes  to not continue with the perpetuation of normalisation of objectified women in games, am I a 'feminazi'?

    As someone who had played mmos at launch for 36 hours non stop, and plans to play ashes for day stints at launch....but also a woman with real life boobs and full on girly bits....are my concerns thus invalid on this topic?

    I'm curious, because I'd so value any constructive, useful views of yours on OPs topic.

    What are your opinions regarding sexual objectification of gender/race/age? 
    Is there a line?
    If there is, where I'd it crossed?
  • Umji said:
    UMJI NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. 

    SEX SYMBOL IS DREAM.
    @Umji
    Your wisdom, delivered in so brief a manner, is -- as always -- exquisite.
  • Megs said:
    but also a woman with real life boobs and full on girly bits
    O.O wut? U r a real girl? hermeged
    Ok, just joking. xD please don't bite me T-T

    Well my point of vue on this is simple: sexiness is great, but it should not end up in some 14 years old f** material. Although it wouldn't bother me, it might bother others. And I don't think it will kill some people to not see the arse of their female character wiggling left and right.

    And please give black sunglasses. I need them for my sexiness.
  • MADE said:
    Alazon said:
    Something I have noticed as of late is some women gamers complaining of sexualization of the female characters in a game in terms of aesthetics.
    That's not true. The complainers aren't gamers, but feminazis and other SJW "peoples". They generally aren't or rarely play games. A true gamer starts around 6hour/day game play.

    On the other hand the SJW-s have big voice despite they usually doesn't even play with the game that they criticize.

    Also a little help for you: format your text cause no one really want to read a unformated wall fo text. Use at least sections.
    Apparently you know nothing about REAL gamers.  Nor do you know anything about women never mind female gamers.

    Further more you might want to  check your grammar before you critisize someones text and how it's formatted.

    Pathetic.
  • MADE said:
    Alazon said:
    Something I have noticed as of late is some women gamers complaining of sexualization of the female characters in a game in terms of aesthetics.
    That's not true. The complainers aren't gamers, but feminazis and other SJW "peoples". They generally aren't or rarely play games. A true gamer starts around 6hour/day game play.

    On the other hand the SJW-s have big voice despite they usually doesn't even play with the game that they criticize.

    Also a little help for you: format your text cause no one really want to read a unformated wall fo text. Use at least sections.
    Well, now then. This is a very interesting "argument" you're making. For the record, I'm referring to argument in the mathematical sense -- if you'd like a definition of what I mean by that, I'd be happy to share it with you.

    To begin, let's talk about the paragraph where you bash Alazon for his formatting. How about you l2grammar? "...cause no one really want to..." should, more correctly, be "... because no one wants to..." Further, you're making a broad statement on behalf of people whose opinion you don't actually represent. Again, more correct would be to say "I don't want to."

    Now, moving on. Let me give you a little bit of my personal history. First of all, I am a natural-born female who has been gaming for ... ummm, about 38 years now. Yep, that's right. And if you wanna find out how that's true, then look up some of my posts. It's in there, but I doubt you'll take the time.

    For the record, I'm not a complainer. I'm not a feminazi, but I might well fall under the category of SJW. See, I believe folk should be treated equally. What's good for the goose is, in fact, good for the gander. If women are sexualized in games, let's sexualize men. I'm all for, in fact, some good chest-baring, thew-enhancing outfits! I do love me some beautiful men.

    Now, for the gaming history. here's my "resume." I began gaming -- actually gaming-gaming, not just the early programming games I began with when I was 10 -- with Doom. From there, I went to the Duke Nukem franchise, then that evolved into several shooters, among them Halflife being the one I went to LAN parties with friends to battle in.

    In all these games, women were over-sexualized. Very much, lol. Wanna know what I mean? Let's talk about how women "died" in these games for YEARS. One of two positions -- either arse up in the air with their cheek pressed to the floor, or spread-eagle on the floor with their knees drawn up. Then, let's look at how they were costumed. In a shooter game, the male characters are fully dressed. In these games, back in the day, first of all there were almost never any female PCs. The NPCs usually wore ripped, torn, or otherwise negligible clothing. That has evolved, but it's still unequal -- by that I mean that while we have female chain-kinis, we don't have a male version.

    The reason that so much has changed in regards to females is because of female complainers. Female gamers who wanted to be fairly and equably represented. And before you poo-poo my "gamer" status, well. Some days, I don't play at all. Some days, I go 'round the clock and get so sucked in I forget to sleep. Most days, I'm on between 4-6 hours. So I'm pretty sure I actually do qualify as a gamer, though by your self-imposed, arbitrary standards, I suppose you may wish to argue that. Anyway. As a female gamer, I have been gratified to see women being more equally represented. I have been gratified to see that most game devs are now intelligent enough to create male and female PCs. 

    What I still can't stand is that gamers like you seem to think it's ok to bash gamers like me. I mean, c'mon. We're all here to have fun, right? Isn't that the point of gaming? So, if my gaming fun says give me male chain-kinis, where's the harm in that? If my gaming fun says that I would prefer to play in games that treat women the same way they treat men, where's the harm in that?

    Honestly, I think these are very compelling questions. What does my wish for these things do to impact you directly? Why is it acceptable for you to bash me, and others like me, because my/our wishes are not the same as yours?
  • I think of all the games I have seen, Soul Calibur is one of the few to do it right with female armor (let's ignore Ivy....)
    Sophitia and Cassandra fit their roles as warriors of Greece/Athens
    Hilde had AWESOME armor and very appropriate in all the games she has appeared in.
    Even Taki, who had a ridiculous bust, had ninja garb that covered most of her in most of the SC titles.
    I would hope that AoC follows a similar model.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Relwoh said:
    In my view sexualisation of women and men is a must. Do you really want to play as a woman or a man, with big fat body and bingo wings flapping in the breeze, and a face that looks like it been hit with a frying pan. No! That's why sexualisation is needed in games.
    I want to be able to play with a big fat body, yes!
    In bikini armor!
    Young and old!

    I'm a feminazi and an SJW.
    All about equality. Including equal opportunity to be objectified.
  • Dygz said:
    Relwoh said:
    In my view sexualisation of women and men is a must. Do you really want to play as a woman or a man, with big fat body and bingo wings flapping in the breeze, and a face that looks like it been hit with a frying pan. No! That's why sexualisation is needed in games.
    I want to be able to play with a big fat body, yes!
    In bikini armor!
    Young and old!
    There really are those who wish to play as stated above and not as a barbie or ken doll.  
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    I have enjoyed reading this thread and picking out the young boys, the chronically single bro-dudes and the old men who've been scorned.
  • Karthos said:
    I have enjoyed reading this thread and picking out the young boys, the chronically single bro-dudes and the old men who've been scorned.
    Didn't know if I should "like" or "LOL"  so I will just agree!
  • Call me crazy but I wouldn't mind making a Brienne of Tarth type character in full plate just running around the battle field hacking people to bits. Now I just need someone to make Tormund Giantsbane and we'll be set. 
  • Call me crazy but I wouldn't mind making a Brienne of Tarth type character in full plate just running around the battle field hacking people to bits. Now I just need someone to make Tormund Giantsbane and we'll be set. 

  • Karthos said:
    Call me crazy but I wouldn't mind making a Brienne of Tarth type character in full plate just running around the battle field hacking people to bits. Now I just need someone to make Tormund Giantsbane and we'll be set. 

    YESSSS!! Made my day @Karthos
  • Call me crazy but I wouldn't mind making a Brienne of Tarth type character in full plate just running around the battle field hacking people to bits. Now I just need someone to make Tormund Giantsbane and we'll be set. 
    I am so up for this.....  :D
  • That was my background at work for about 6 months. People always did a double take.
  • They did a double take because it was so majestic @Karthos
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    As long as we don't have these:



    I'm fine with whatever.
  • Alazon said:
    Something I have noticed as of late is some women gamers complaining of sexualization of the female characters in a game in terms of aesthetics. Many of us are excited at the prospect of being able to customize our characters in any way we wish. There are also those that want to tamper that in whatever way they feel is best. I personally enjoy playing "dress up" with my characters and yes, there are some sexy outfits in there. I don't think that going through and having full on nudity is great, but having some sexy outfits aren't bad either. I understand that in many aspects women are viewed as strictly sex objects, but there is also another point of view that we go through and make ourselves sex objects as well. There isn't a woman out there that doesn't like to feel desirable, and sexy outfits happen to be part of that, or so some choose. I believe that some female characters can look "bad-ass" while still looking sexy. It doesn't mean that that has to be thrust upon you, you can still have the choice to go through and look "bad-ass" without having a whole lot of skin showing, but there should also be that other option too for those who really enjoy playing "dress up" and wishing that in many ways we could wear that sort of thing in the real world. Going through and tampering the choices of xmog and customization is the answer as the attitude behind it should be examined instead. Just my perspective.
    @Alazon I love you. I just love you.
      This perspective is absolutely spot on for how it should be. I agree absolutely wholeheartedly.

      There was another thread from a player a little while back, saying as a "plea to remove the sexualization of the armors" for female characters (not sure if that's what spurred your opinion here) making it all into some big sexist ordeal. In which I disagreed to that entire thread and just made the entire thing out to be a joke amd made fun of it.

       But it's one thing to make sure there are alternatives and another thing to blatantly remove. As you said, people do actually come to a lot of games just for that ability to customize and play "dress up". To look "cool" "sexy" "desirable" "fashionable" however the f**k they want to.
     
      Everybody loves it when there's more ways of personalisation, customization and outfits. It's not for other players to come in and try to restrict that because they're part of some sort of feminist movement or something. 
  • Anita Sarkessian is a garbage human.

    But seriously art is subjective. You can decide how valuable a piece of art is to you, but whether you like it or not shouldn't get in the way of creative freedom.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    i dont think any of it has anything to do with sexualization as much to do with that bikini cant withstand my battle axe. its immersion breaking. and shouldn't be in a game meant to be immersive.
    now everyone come at me with.your playing a game its already not real. the facts still stand.
    now, say people wanna play dressup and not have the ability to use that "bikini" in combat. im ok with it.and would also partake. to add, id toss down hundreds on underwear and shit in the CS.(vindictus anyone?)
    i get the i want to customize my character plea.  im pretty sure the devs got the item variety for customization covered. but i dont think we need to cry for sludy outfit transmog to have total customization and completion with our characters like its a jrpg.


    this, this should never go into battle. example A(its a ugly ass set to boot)



    This, this should go into battle. Example B 

    this, this as with example A i would say are those in town costumes or "bikinis". Example C


    Chudyie said:
    As long as we don't have these:



    I'm fine with whatever.
    i also 2nd this. wth tera. seriously just wth. this needs to stop. 
  • Bikini armor has magic - just like most armor adding extra protection and buffs.
    It's high fantasy game, so armor with magic protection should not be immersion-breaking.

    If the genre were low fantasy or historical fiction, sure, bikini armor should be immersion breaking because the there would be little or no magic.
  • Kotter said:
    there's a difference between real life and video games.
    Yes its called imagination. There is nothing wrong with that. people with a vivid imagination are the most creative.
  • Dygz said:
    If female characters can wear bikinis, male characters should be able to wear bikinis too.
    And, really male characters should also be able to wear dresses and skirts.
    Or the male equivalent.


    As for wearing a dress or skirt. Ensure we have a shave the legs slider.
  • I would like to see more range in armor: fully clothed to scantily clad. I feel this is appropriate for both male and female. Most guys won't complain about being a big beefcake character. Sure, it isn't what the average guy looks like but it sure doesn't bother me.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    NoeSparks said:
    i dont think any of it has anything to do with sexualization as much to do with that bikini cant withstand my battle axe. its immersion breaking. and shouldn't be in a game meant to be immersive.
    now everyone come at me with.your playing a game its already not real. the facts still stand.
    now, say people wanna play dressup and not have the ability to use that "bikini" in combat. im ok with it.and would also partake. to add, id toss down hundreds on underwear and shit in the CS.(vindictus anyone?)
    i get the i want to customize my character plea.  im pretty sure the devs got the item variety for customization covered. but i dont think we need to cry for sludy outfit transmog to have total customization and completion with our characters like its a jrpg.


    this, this should never go into battle. example A(its a ugly ass set to boot)



    This, this should go into battle. Example B 

    this, this as with example A i would say are those in town costumes or "bikinis". Example C


    Chudyie said:
    As long as we don't have these:



    I'm fine with whatever.
    i also 2nd this. wth tera. seriously just wth. this needs to stop. 
    It's about sexualization. It has nothing to do with finctionality. Otherwise everyone would be saying "Oh no, don't include any metal battle armor, it can't withstand my lightning spells." Metal conducting electricity, the wearer would be fried after 1 zap.. less chance of surviving that than if a bikini wearer were struck somewhere with either an axe or lightning.

    Hell, even water magic, I'll drown you in your heavy sinking armor.. Bikini wearers just swim outta that shit ;)

    Bikini > Battle armor.
    The facts still stand.
  • I have no problem with the sexuality regarding the dress in the game as long as it's not straight out pornographic.  I believe the players should be allowed to have reasonable choices.  (And believe me, I realize that in this day and age there is pretty much no standard for what is reasonable) I see very little justification for the Devs to go to any extra effort to make obviously female clothing wearable by male characters.  The only instance I can come up with in which this might even be necessary at all is if a male character dressed up like a female as a disguise like Mal did in Serenity to sneak into the companions school.  I believe that if male characters are allowed to wear female clothing, it should at least be limited in some way so we don't end up with a server full of imbeciles playing male characters running around dressed like females to intentionally sabotage the sense of immersion for roleplayers.   
  • There is a fix to this sexualization issue.  Just make all female toons to look like Smurfs or Minions.
  • I think maybe Drypht & alaequae are either missing the point or being sarcastic, I can't tell. There are plenty of other TV shows and Movies where a male has dressed like a female to gain some sort of advantage. Also, making all female avatars Smurf's or Minions seems like a very demeaning position. If girls complain we will make them non-human? (again, I am hoping for sarcasm w/ both of these post or maybe I missed their points)

    I live in the year 2017, and on occasion I see men dressed like women going to work in the mornings, shopping, and otherwise being normal. The same could be said for women, but I have yet to see an article of clothing designated "male" that would not look good on at least 1 female. So for me, I guess all clothing is gender neutral w/ some being less desirable for men?

    I would not wear a dress and a vast majority of my friends, co-workers, and family members I assure you REALLY appreciate that. It's not even b/c they are closed minded, it's just that I can't imagine they would want to see me in a dress/skirt.

    However, if a player wants a male avatar and they want to put them in a dress and run around town, I'll admit it would be odd to see them. But I don't think there will be a "server full" and I doubt most of them would be "imbeciles."

    If IS has time to implement two sets of clothing/armor as male/female and make them non-auto-fit (?) to a players avatar's sex before launch, that would be awesome. If they do it as an update later, sweet. If they never get around to it, I am sorry for those who will miss it, but I likely will never notice it's missing.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Removed.
  • Flameh0t said:
    It's about sexualization. It has nothing to do with finctionality. Otherwise everyone would be saying "Oh no, don't include any metal battle armor, it can't withstand my lightning spells." Metal conducting electricity, the wearer would be fried after 1 zap.. less chance of surviving that than if a bikini wearer were struck somewhere with either an axe or lightning.

    Hell, even water magic, I'll drown you in your heavy sinking armor.. Bikini wearers just swim outta that shit ;)

    Bikini > Battle armor.
    The facts still stand.
    Actually not, being the bikini still metal.
    Plus if your female character wore a leather bikini or some sort of skimpy leather /cloth armour, then you couldn't disregard the lighting part either, but neither the fire or water one.  Are you supposed to be agile enough to evade lighting? Or is your skin magically impervious to elements? If your bikini magic prevents your sking from getting damage, then why wouldn't a full plate be able to be imbued with similar magic?

    You would not drown by me filling your full plate with water but I could simply assail your character with a massive wave. Why that could be impossible for a mage?

    Either case the lighting and fire thing "is" supposed to happen, otherwise a tank would be nearly invincible

    The functionality that's being told about here is about melee combat.  With magic, either you have buffs, either you're screwed and that it is how it should be, otherwise mages would be useless.
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