Do you think it is good that the ranger has to be a minimum distance from the enemy to use a bow?

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Only if mage fireball will also have minimum distance.

Have you ever used a REAL bow? 

Yes I have.

Have you ever used a REAL fireball?

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Gothix said:

Only if mage fireball will also have minimum distance.

Have you ever used a REAL bow? 

Yes I have.

Have you ever used a REAL fireball?

Have you ever used a bow in a combat situation? Its one thing to shoot a target point blank, but go larping with a bow and see how easy it is to nock an arrow, pull back a string and fire straight all while some dude is trying to hit you with foam swords. Not easy I'll tell you that. As for magic these are usually balanced out with interruptible cast times or when they get hit the spell takes longer to cast.

ArchivedUser

In the Middle for this type of Poll - i suppose they could just implement a 

Seering Shot
       ~ an attack that'll be similar to an Area-Damage based Atk, it'll slight extend the               Minimum Distance & the User would have to aim. And it'll cover a Narrow, yet               widen range. 

ArchivedUser

Might make it unbalanced ? 

ArchivedUser

Ranger does imply "range", but this game isn't a traditional MMORPG. Since roles are not weapon locked in Ashes, I'd put forward that that any range limitation be an attribute of the weapon in question rather than the class, or at least a combination of class/subclass/weapon.

ArchivedUser

Range restrictions should be rejoiced. This is yet another feature that requires the players to rely on strategy and skill, besides the ranger will still be highly mobile. 

ArchivedUser

I just wanted to add, if I pulled the bow string all the way back, and aim it in your face that's half meter from this bow... you would definitely not like it if i released the string. 

This is all there is to say how harmless bow is on half meter distance.

ArchivedUser

I voted yes because this game is high fantasy. In real life no one is going to be able to consistently snipe someone with a bow and arrow a mile away. 

ArchivedUser

Rivest said:

Gothix said:

Gothix said:

Only if mage fireball will also have minimum distance.

Have you ever used a REAL bow? 

Yes I have.

Have you ever used a REAL fireball?

Have you ever used a bow in a combat situation? Its one thing to shoot a target point blank, but go larping with a bow and see how easy it is to nock an arrow, pull back a string and fire straight all while some dude is trying to hit you with foam swords. Not easy I'll tell you that. As for magic these are usually balanced out with interruptible cast times or when they get hit the spell takes longer to cast.

Not just foam weapons. I was in the SCA where we used real armor and wooden weapons. You're not shooting anyone with your head going GONG! because you just got rapped across your helmet.

ArchivedUser

Not sure why this is even a discussion. If someone is too close you won't be able to use your bow. Period. But then all you have to do is hit your "dash" ability. Problem solved (unless you are up against a wall)

ArchivedUser

voted no - a ranger is trained to use a bow but I think that there should be Close combat skills a ranger can pick up with use of his bow 

ArchivedUser

Just a quick note.  The Ranger class does not note denote ranged fighting though it is linked with the class.  The Ranger class was a class that was linked with nature.  Think a National Park Ranger not a ranged weapon.

ArchivedUser

Strider was a ranger...he went wide ranging in territory and knew flora and fauna, and how to track, and how to live in the wild.

ArchivedUser

Aguasatori said:

Bannith said:

Arrows traveling further lowers the impact of the arrow... So that is actually counter intuitive...

Let's not bring realism into this discussion. If we were talking about realism, I wouldn't think a ranger would suddenly have a brain aneurysm and be unable to use his bow when enemies are too close. It's obvious that a bowman would find it difficult to use a bow with an enemy swinging a sword in his face, but we're talking about game mechanics here.

I don't think being unable to use my bow in melee range is fun. I'd really have to play it for myself to be certain, though. Perhaps being forced to switch to melee weapons can make the ranger playstyle dynamic and fresh.

I was agreeing with that and offering a counter that would make more sense from a gameplay and realism point. Please don't pick one sentence from the entire thing and fail to respond to the entire point of the post. =\

I totally agree that using a bow in melee range should be possible but based on bow type it should have relative penalties. A long bow might as well have a dead zone at melee range because it would be rather difficult to do jack with it. On the other hand a short bow is more design for quick shots and would function significantly better albeit at a penalty.

All in all if arrows are skill shot based in the first place a dead zone is entirely arbitrary as the entirety of it should be based on player skill. I want weapon switching to be a thing as well though. A duelwielding shortsword kit + Long bow. You could link the weapon sets to specific hotbars and when you switch it switches similar to ESO.

ArchivedUser

After seeing several posts I decided to vote no.  But with a caveat that if they are doing it for all ranged classes I have no problem with it. This is a fantasy setting so I really do not care if a real bow could or could not work but if it helps add balance for pve and pvp then I trust the developer to make the right choice and if it is not working rebalance it. As of now I have no idea if other range classes are getting the same restriction so I will vote no. 

ArchivedUser

Yeah, I think switching between bow and duel wielding should be an ability for rangers.

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

Yeah, I think switching between bow and duel wielding should be an ability for rangers.

It usually is an added ability choice in most games.  
I've played both healers and rangers as an alt.

ArchivedUser

I agree with a minimum distance, however as found in other games, if there is no ability to kite and/or escape a mob/player then a player with a bow is crippled in game play.

I am partial to reduced capacity to kill at close range though.

I do like powered up shots that take time to execute and/or increase accuracy.
I also like line of sight and elevation to make a difference

So if they can kite, evade and/or have means to create distance then I am all for it.

ArchivedUser

Seems like Point Blank Shot - if an actual ability in Ashes- should become available at a higher level rather than a low level.

We can use any weapon, so I would hope that Rangers have attacks that rely on other weapons.
We should ask the devs about that specifically some time.
No point in being able to use all weapons if all or 95% of the class abilities rely on a bow.
("weapon-agnostic" would mean without weapon knowledge)

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

Seems like Point Blank Shot - if an actual ability in Ashes- should become available at a higher level rather than a low level.

We can use any weapon, so I would hope that Rangers have attacks that rely on other weapons.
We should ask the devs about that specifically some time.
No point in being able to use all weapons if all or 95% of the class abilities rely on a bow.
("weapon-agnostic" would mean without weapon knowledge)

I wonder if weapon swap in combat would be a thing to counter losing the ability of a bow at close range?  More questions!!!  

ArchivedUser

Since a Ranger should be able to use all of their best attacks at any distance then I would like the same to be true for Tanks. If you are a Ranger and can stand in front of a swordsman draw/fire while being hit with a sword kudos to you, b/c it's fantasy not realism, so I'm okay with that. Fair, I want my Tank able to throw axes/daggers and deal as  much damage as my strongest attacks. That would be balanced.

Also, I don't buy the MMORPG Dogma "this is what name random MMO does" that is common in a lot of these threads. I am actually quite pleased when I learn Ashes is doing something different. I mean if all the other MMO's are doing your favorite class right, why play a different one that changes everything?

ArchivedUser

I think Rangers should at least be able to use bow in close encounters, but hits less damage/effectively (maybe have the accuracy drop). That way you can still attack some and kite until you are able to get the the best distance to get the max dealing just in case if you have your escape on cooldown or have it canceled (if skill canceling/interrupt is a thing in AoC).

ArchivedUser

Put simply you need to think about balance. Rangers normally get the greatest range and melee class suffer because of it. Melee has skill to close the gap to less damage but Rangers have at least one skill we know of to get back to ranged and do damage while doing it. Melee needs some advantage when they finally close the gap. That's balanced and fair play. 

ArchivedUser

Nanfoodle said:

Put simply you need to think about balance. Rangers normally get the greatest range and melee class suffer because of it. Melee has skill to close the gap to less damage but Rangers have at least one skill we know of to get back to ranged and do damage while doing it. Melee needs some advantage when they finally close the gap. That's balanced and fair play. 

But don't forget that rangers are usually a lot more squishy then warriors, so once warrior closes in and applies a stun, ranger is a toast.

Ranger must have a working weapon in close range to even have a chance to escape.

ArchivedUser

Rather, must have an active target to Dash away. 

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

Gothix said:

Only if mage fireball will also have minimum distance.
And healers heal also.
And every other ranged weapon out there.

This makes no sense. Can you explain what the reason behind this would be?

My guess is similar to DAoC were its takes concentration to cast those spells so if someone is on you beating you then you can't concentrate to cast. As for the ranger up close I know first hand you can shoot someone with a bow at close range but I would agree there would need to be damage reduction on those shots. I'm also curious to see what kind of melee they give the ranger for those situations.  

ArchivedUser

Also for the record I've only said No because I haven't been able to find anything on the rangers melee abilities yet.

ArchivedUser

Nanfoodle said:

Put simply you need to think about balance. Rangers normally get the greatest range and melee class suffer because of it. Melee has skill to close the gap to less damage but Rangers have at least one skill we know of to get back to ranged and do damage while doing it. Melee needs some advantage when they finally close the gap. That's balanced and fair play. 

Tanks will have a pull/stun/knockdown abilities, I think they're ok.

ArchivedUser

Kumary said:

Nanfoodle said:

Put simply you need to think about balance. Rangers normally get the greatest range and melee class suffer because of it. Melee has skill to close the gap to less damage but Rangers have at least one skill we know of to get back to ranged and do damage while doing it. Melee needs some advantage when they finally close the gap. That's balanced and fair play. 

Tanks will have a pull/stun/knockdown abilities, I think they're ok.

with that logic ranged users will have stuns/roots/snares/escape abilities so I think they're ok.

ArchivedUser

I'm noncommittal. This is alpha, it might not even make it to release. It'll all come down to how does it work out in playtesting. It'll end up being either too great of a handicap and be removed or they design around it well enough that it fits with the game mechanics. I'm not going to be overly concerned either way.