Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

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Hat's off to all gentlemen players!

2

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Man, I still remember the days when I was playing Quake (the original) and was part of a team (2nd in command actually), and back then, we didn't have voice type things. My leader knew I was a female player because he and I had many long conversations (and I think we spoke once over the phone or some such).

    Back then, it was much like the days of Planetside-- how dare a female be a damn good at video game! I mean, I still remember when some guy typed out: "That dude has balls of steel" and my buddy responded. "You mean she has balls of steel." and so many folks lost their minds.

    I remember my mom telling me how a bunch of 15-17 year old teen guys where steaming that a six year old girl beat them at the SNES Starfox championship... and a dude in Doom 3 Deathmatch refused to accept that he was being beaten by a girl when we were the last two standing.

    The sad truth is, it has gotten better, but I still find myself hiding behind the male mask more times than not. Only because I still run into men who refuse to accept equality when it comes to video games or, you know, when we women might be better than them. I also get this in comics as well (and some ways, comics is still worse than video games)

    So yes, to all you men who have accepted us and treat us one of "the guys". Thank you a million. <3
  • @foxfirestorm87

    They need to git gud  B)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Eragale said:

    And honestly surprised of the " Tales " I'm reading

    ( looking at you @Diura & @Isende )



    If you're referring to the unsolicited whispers, erp requests and images, yeah that happens a lot if anyone believes you're an actual woman. 
    I blame the anonymity of the situation, what does anyone lose by whispering you?

    I am curious though that some people are reading this OP as a desire to perpetuate special, different treatment towards women gamers, I read it more as reminiscing about gamers with manners, gamers wanting to be helpful and volunteering their time....Although, going by this community so far, (other than a tiny minority of inevitable knobweasels) everyone seems to have a mature attitude and have 'lovely manners' as my mother would say.

    Perpetuating that attitude through the wait and into launch would be a wonderful thing to achieve! (Surprising, but wonderful!) 

    Reminiscing myself, a loooong time ago in LOtRO I remember standing there watching a horrendous world, general chat conversation by what seemed like a group of teenage boys, several people had already asked them to stop when
    I got fed up and jumped in with a comment, I cant remember exactly what it was now, but they all apologised, and I was immediately swamped with a number of whispers laughing about the 'power of a polite woman'






  • I have never understood people who loose their minds over a girl online. Even when I was 12, when I should be at the peak of annoyance for other gamers, I didn't care.
    My main group was me and three others, two of which were girls. I have seen from the matches we have queued up in the reaction of most people and its hilarious. XD
    Still talk to those friends to this day!
  • I have never understood people who loose their minds over a girl online. Even when I was 12, when I should be at the peak of annoyance for other gamers, I didn't care.
    I remember back in 1975 when a friends dad bought a copy of Pong at Sears, he was instantly more popular and we were all hooked. A generation of nerds and losers that spent all our money on arcades as teens, played obscure games like Dungeons and Dragons, the appearance of a female into those crowds was unheard of. As we grew older, but still remained geeks and nerds, some lucky few managed to find women who understood us, or were at least willing to put up with our "hobbies". We birthed a whole new generation of gamers, where our daughters didn't learn that these things were only for the nerd/geeks. The game industry and social norms shifted, but not far enough. That is why still today you have that next generation of awkward male, still shocked that a female would be willing to delve into "their hobby," The current crop of millennials think nothing of females in gaming. But it will take a generation or so for the sexist stigma to full go away.
  • Warkov said:
    Warkov said:
    I don't think girls/women deserve any special preferential treatment over anyone else. Everyone should be judged purely on their actions and attitude.  But when you make it point to specifically identify your gender and other beliefs, then you are specifically part of the problem in creating those differences to begin with.   None of us here needed to know if you were or were not a girl, and you don't deserve to be applauded for views on guys just because of that.

    Are there discrepancies in gender statistics for some things, sure, but don't be part of the barrier to entry for others who are the same gender by screaming look at me.  No validation from me, sorry.  
     I was not looking for validation from anyone.  The purpose of my post was to bring attention to a wonderful group of guys who accepted me as I accepted them.   It's nice to give credit where credit is due.  

     If nothing else my post shows equality in how people,  male or female  are  perceived according to their actions and words. That goes for you also.

    When have you ever read a post from a guy talking about how nice the other guy gamers were to him, and how accepting of him and gentlemen like they were?  You are part of the problem of gender differentiation.  You should worry more about true assimilation into the group for real equality, rather than making post trying to bring attention to your gender and how people are treating you whatever way because of it.

     I'm not being mean, but I'm not going to white-night cuck like other mic droppers here.  You want equality, then you should be appreciative that I'm being truthful with you.  So let's be honest here, your post was not about praising people on their merits, it was simply about you looking for validation and pats on the back for finding a group of guys that treats you very gentlemanly.  Here is hint, real friends aren't always gentlemen or pretend to be, and they certainly don't need to post about it.  

       Those fellas were from all over the world.  They used the foul language of many male gamers. I did not. They didn't come on to me but accepted me for who I was and I them.   It's not unusual for a female even today to get called  a sexual object or spoken to in PM's as if they were tramps.   It has happened even here in Discord.  

     I've had many REAL men as friends and still  do.  My gaming partner of 20 years is male.  
    Because I dare to say thank you and praise (imho,) an exceptional group of men and boys you try to put me down for that?  How wrong you are.  You are also part of what's wrong with society today.  You can't accept someone complimenting or praising others without tearing it apart.

    I asked "Do you have a memorial  encounter playing video games?" That was one for me.  I guess you have not had any such thing and only know how to criticize  others.
    You are pathetic that you can't see it. 

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Warkov said:
    Warkov said:
    I don't think girls/women deserve any special preferential treatment over anyone else. Everyone should be judged purely on their actions and attitude.  But when you make it point to specifically identify your gender and other beliefs, then you are specifically part of the problem in creating those differences to begin with.   None of us here needed to know if you were or were not a girl, and you don't deserve to be applauded for views on guys just because of that.

    Are there discrepancies in gender statistics for some things, sure, but don't be part of the barrier to entry for others who are the same gender by screaming look at me.  No validation from me, sorry.  
     I was not looking for validation from anyone.  The purpose of my post was to bring attention to a wonderful group of guys who accepted me as I accepted them.   It's nice to give credit where credit is due.  

     If nothing else my post shows equality in how people,  male or female  are  perceived according to their actions and words. That goes for you also.

    When have you ever read a post from a guy talking about how nice the other guy gamers were to him, and how accepting of him and gentlemen like they were?  You are part of the problem of gender differentiation.  You should worry more about true assimilation into the group for real equality, rather than making post trying to bring attention to your gender and how people are treating you whatever way because of it.

     I'm not being mean, but I'm not going to white-night cuck like other mic droppers here.  You want equality, then you should be appreciative that I'm being truthful with you.  So let's be honest here, your post was not about praising people on their merits, it was simply about you looking for validation and pats on the back for finding a group of guys that treats you very gentlemanly.  Here is hint, real friends aren't always gentlemen or pretend to be, and they certainly don't need to post about it.  

       Those fellas were from all over the world.  They used the foul language of many male gamers. I did not. They didn't come on to me but accepted me for who I was and I them.   It's not unusual for a female even today to get called  a sexual object or spoken to in PM's as if they were tramps.   It has happened even here in Discord.  

     I've had many REAL men as friends and still  do.  My gaming partner of 20 years is male.  
    Because I dare to say thank you and praise (imho,) an exceptional group of men and boys you try to put me down for that?  How wrong you are.  You are also part of what's wrong with society today.  You can't accept someone complimenting or praising others without tearing it apart.

    I asked "Do you have a memorial  encounter playing video games?" That was one for me.  I guess you have not had any such thing and only know how to criticize  others.
    You are pathetic that you can't see it. 

    Don't change the subject with saying I put you down.  I have not put you down at all. I'm simply calling you out on your BS.  Gender should play no role in this, and that's the crux of my point.  You want to make a post praising the good qualities of your gamer friends, go right ahead.  I'm right there with you and I would agree that it's cool, but you instead want to make post about being woman, and how the men have treated you etc etc, which it totally irrelevant, and only adds to the issue of inequality.  You want equality with men while interacting with them? Then stop perpetuating that there is a difference that needs to be acknowledged. 
  • I don't care who is a person from the other side of the screen. I will not go and leave other four team members for one person who is behind enemy lines and yell "I need healing"
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Megs said:


    .... I read it more as reminiscing about gamers with manners, gamers wanting to be helpful and volunteering their time.....








    Let me ask you then what does gender have absolutely anything to do with it, seriously?  Why not make post about all your friends being nice and having manners.  Why is there is even need for the gender nonsense?  It would the exact same effect if I made post saying that my group of black friends all acted respectable towards me.  It's nothing more than a veiled validation seeking post that perpetuates differences, not one giving genuine praise.
  • @Warkov sorry but I do not need validation from you. I guess you have no real memorial encounter in a game.  Too bad.
  • The way I have come to see things is that being a gentleman isn't about how you treat a woman/girl/lady but rather it is about holding yourself to curtain standards in how you treat others. With that in mind creating a thread to express gratitude towards gentlemen is not anti equality but instead it is pro equality.

    @Warkov , I have known several gentlemen that I am thankful for the way they have treated me... just none of them are in a video game setting.

    I would also like to point out something I believe to be a misconception; that there being a difference in genders means that there can't be equality

    @CylverRayne I thank you for this thread it brings me encouragement in my walk from manhood into gentlemanhood
  • Nelirya said:
    I don't know if it's because I'm a little younger or something, but I have never really thought that being a female in games is something special. I usually dress my character very feminine with heels and dresses if I can and when people hear my voice, they are not at all surprised that I am, indeed, female.

    I think these days females in games are normal and accepted and I do not really see the point in particularly thanking males for being accepting. I would much rather thank all the people here in general for being awesome and accepting, really enjoying the community feeling here :)
    I'm 48. I've been in IT since around 1989. Trust me, we've had to fight long and hard to almost be seen as equal in that career field, even though we've been here since it fully began -- and I'm talking about women lots of people don't even know about these days.

    Women like Grace Hopper's contributions, while she was in the Military, which she entered when she was 34. Her contributions to IT began around 1949. Or women like Ada Lovelace (who died in 1852). Or Sister Mary Kenneth Keller, who died in 1985. For more on these women, and others, go to https://tinyurl.com/historicalwomen.

    Women have more than contributed to the current level of technology which we enjoy; however, for quite a long time, men were seen as "better" at the maths and sciences, and women were excluded from these fields. During my first marriage, when I told my husband I wanted to go to school to learn to program computers, I was met by dismay. He went to his mother, who softly recommended I "go work at a bank, dear, they get to use computers there."

    I'm more than gratified that you feel the way you do, that you don't think that women in games, and more specifically in tech careers, is abnormal. It means that I, and women like me, and the women whose shoulders I've stood upon during my career, have normalized something for you that wasn't normal, during my generation. It means that my daughter, almost-30, who's a scientist, doesn't get treated unequally in her field (as I most certainly have during my time in IT) just because she's a woman. For that, I'm more grateful than words can convey. However, for my generation, just accept it as given that we've had to fight against the stereotypes, against the unequal treatment, and our views are, necessarily, somewhat different.

    Warkov said:
    I don't think girls/women deserve any special preferential treatment over anyone else. Everyone should be judged purely on their actions and attitude.  But when you make it point to specifically identify your gender and other beliefs, then you are specifically part of the problem in creating those differences to begin with.   None of us here needed to know if you were or were not a girl, and you don't deserve to be applauded for views on guys just because of that.

    Are there discrepancies in gender statistics for some things, sure, but don't be part of the barrier to entry for others who are the same gender by screaming look at me.  No validation from me, sorry.  

    I can't add to what @CylverRayne said, about what she said, and I won't try to. I'm taking a slightly different tack on this one. You see, I abhor labels that divide. I really do. However, I also celebrate the differences that make us unique, and interesting. I appreciate @CylverRayne's offering to the man she mentioned in her OP; as a woman, I've been there, and I recall very well what it was to be treated as "lesser" because of my gender, when I'd rather be treated as "different" because of my mind. However, I wasn't, she wasn't, and she chooses to remember those times not with a castigation against everyone who may've hurt her, but a celebration of what was a pivotal time for her. I don't see her setting herself apart due to gender; rather I see her celebrating a gentleman, and if you try to tell me that men don't appreciate being seen in that light, I've got ocean-front property in Arizona for you. Being married to a man who enjoys "feeling like a man" because of how I treat him tells me that in choosing to celebrate his difference from me, because I'm a woman, I'm giving him something special.

    Please, in the future, refrain from looking for division where it doesn't exist, for the sake of preaching unity.
  • Eragale said:
    I'm a little surprised that girls wasn't playing games sooner. Not only does it get my mind off of things , but you also meet new people.

    Honestly, never given much thought on it - never needed to. 
    If the ladies want to play ... Why nag about it  ? ;)

    And honestly surprised of the " Tales " I'm reading

    ( looking at you @Diura & @Isende )


    Can you elucidate? I'm not sure if that was a toast, or a slam. Thanks!
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Isende said:
     Being married to a man who enjoys "feeling like a man" because of how I treat him tells me 
    ugh.. I had so resigned to be done with this thread, :o but you had to include that line. 
    Your man should feel like man because of his own will, purpose and being, and NOT from being validated by a woman or anyone else, especially through how they treat him.  A real man needs no one's approval or reassurances for being a man.  Men who buy into that should be ashamed, and are nothing more than a blinded beta being led around through a feminin imperative.
  • Karthos said:
    Wait, you're a girl? 

    I only see people in two categories. 

    Karthos and Not Karthos
    hahahaha
  • @tugowar is king among gentlemen! All hail! O//
  • Warkov said:
    ugh.. I had so resigned to be done with this thread, :o but you had to include that line. 
    Your man should feel like man because of his own will, purpose and being, and NOT from being validated by a woman or anyone else, especially through how they treat him.  A real man needs no one's approval or reassurances for being a man.  Men who buy into that should be ashamed, and are nothing more than a blinded beta being led around through a feminine imperative.
    *chuckles*

    There you go, using my least-favorite word. That pesky "should" word. "Should" denotes an ideal, an aspiration. It doesn't take into account "is" -- in fact, it tries to trick us into replacing "is" with this ideal that may or may not be viable for everyone.

    If you wish to be done with a thread, dear Warkov, then simply walk away.
  • Megs said:

    "knobweasels"

    @Megs, I love you.  You come up with some of the best words.  :D
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Isende said:
    with this ideal that may or may not be viable for everyone.
    It's viable for anyone with a back bone and self directed will.  "Should" is implying a fundamental truth of natural law and deviation from that doesn't make it stop being so, but good job with the deflection.  I see you have no real disagreement with my statement. 
  • Wait... You're a real girl (´・ω・`)?

    Don't worry! I won't ever treat you like some chad would! I'm always super friendly!
  • Many feminists have fought for years for total and complete equality in every area YET they still want men to defer to them, open doors for them, give up their seat on the bus for them, not cuss over voice chat......

    I'm older and I was taught to always be a gentleman but I can understand if the younger generation of men just let women fend for themselves.... they did ask for it after all.
  • Atama said:
    In '99/2000 when I played EQ I took advantage of the attitude toward women.  I made a female character (I'm a guy in RL) and claimed to be a young teenaged girl new to gaming and my big brother said girls can't play and maybe he's right because I can't figure anything out...

    Within minutes someone would come by and show me how to play and inevitably give me a ton of money and/or some valuable gear.  I'd then drop that off, log onto my main, and pick it up.  (There was nothing as sophisticated as mailing things to alts or shared bank space back then.)  I pulled this scam numerous times.

    I'm not proud of those acts.  I took advantage of (presumably) well-meaning players and it wasn't clever, just cruel and greedy.  I wouldn't do anything like that these days.  But I think it shows how attitudes were back then (if they're different now).  I tried the same tactic with a male character not pretending to be a girl and it didn't have the same result.
    We call that being an online sexual predator. Who knows what else you're hiding, or lying about, if you cant even be honest about your gender. I hope I never see you in game. 
  • Diura said:
    Ladies and men should be respected. People should be respected regardless of gender - we are all special and awesome :3 Humans are great xD
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." - Kay

    I used to think people were awesome, then I turned 40, and the older I get the more I dislike people and am amazed that we've all continued to exist this long. Now I feel like I'm surrounded by idiots all the time and I kinda wish there was an easy way out of this circus.
  • foxfirestorm87 said:
    Man, I still remember the days when I was playing Quake (the original) and was part of a team (2nd in command actually), and back then, we didn't have voice type things. My leader knew I was a female player because he and I had many long conversations (and I think we spoke once over the phone or some such).
    Dude you sold me at Quake <3<3<3 Such nostalgia! I was a competitive Quake player back in the day. Had all the nine inch nails albums to prove it :)
  • Warkov said:
    Megs said:


    .... I read it more as reminiscing about gamers with manners, gamers wanting to be helpful and volunteering their time.....



    Let me ask you then what does gender have absolutely anything to do with it, seriously?  Why not make post about all your friends being nice and having manners.  Why is there is even need for the gender nonsense?  It would the exact same effect if I made post saying that my group of black friends all acted respectable towards me.  It's nothing more than a veiled validation seeking post that perpetuates differences, not one giving genuine praise.
    It had something to do with it, I believe because this was, literally, a group of gamers who were choosing to act outside of the normal laddish game standard behavior at the time.

    Gender HAD something to do with it then. Hence it is relevant. 

    Does it now? Probably not, and I am with you that I'd hope that it doesn't in future. Although I have to say that in my own experience..and I understand the limitations of that, but those with griefing or spamming or just obnoxious language turn out to be almost uniquely teenage boys.

    There has been several threads that were taken down through people attacking 'women' who chose to voice their opinions on behavior and environment that has occurred historically in games.
    Please lets not turn this one into another gender battle simply because she's chosen to highlight that they were men. 

    Had she voiced the same comment as yourself, she would have been immediately taken down and branded as a, in their words, 'feminazi', and told to 'go back to the kitchen'. Yes, that's been going on here, sexism is still rife however this positive op, how is this truly harming anyone?

    Ok, so you feel that the OP is unconsciously being negative towards men.... I'm sorry about that. 

    I do think you ought to be aware though that there has been a huge outpouring of negative comments going on in this community that is preventing women from feeling able to voice their own opinions.  Almost every thread in which we've attempted to show that we've been feeling left out and pushed aside has been ganked by aggressive comments. 

    You appear to misunderstand, she is not asking for validation, she is honestly thanking people, who just happened to be men.

    Moving forward can we not just ALL be wonderful and well mannered regardless of gender?


  • I remember the early days of gaming where to be a girl was AMAZING!! As a female player it was always fun and flattering to see the reactions of male players when they discovered my gender. "OMG! Elloa you are a girl in REAL LIFE???!!!"
    I must confess, it was fun and pleasant to feel special.

    Now, I also must say that my position had always been a bit different. Even 12 years ago. I was already a mother, a little bit older than most, always in couple, so basically clearly not "free for taking". I've also always been leading projects, communities,  guilds, before to become a content creator 5 years ago. So I guess that people do not have the same behaviour towards me than to other females.
    I rarely had any sort of issues or harrassements. Sometimes a little bit on TwitchTV or some odd comment on Youtube, but that's to be expected I suppose
  • Warkov said:
    Isende said:
    with this ideal that may or may not be viable for everyone.
    It's viable for anyone with a back bone and self directed will.  "Should" is implying a fundamental truth of natural law and deviation from that doesn't make it stop being so, but good job with the deflection.  I see you have no real disagreement with my statement. 
    Actually, I do, but it's a matter of energy expenditure. You want to be drawn into a discussion about that specifically, but I already know any discussion on that will be a never-ending series of statements from me, and refutations from you. Frankly, I've much better things to spend my energy and efforts on.

    See, now this? This point is where I make the choice to walk away. Watch, see how it works.
  • Well, I guess I ought to weigh in on this one with my twisted logic.  But first a fun fact.  When Nintendo first released the NES in the US, it wasn't intended to be just a system for boys (after all, it was marketed to boys and girls in Japan), but they had to choose which isle in the toy section it was going to be put on.  So they choose in the boys toys side.  True story, I saw it on a TV show that was discussing the history of Nintendo.

    I am the type of person when speaking to women, especially women I don't know, I always say "ma'am", especially when I'm working.  I'm almost 45 years old now, and say "yes/no/thank you ma'am to the young teenage girls at restaurants and stores to this day.  I feel really awkward calling them sweetie or darling, and living in the south, primarily Texas my whole life, that is a common term of endearment.  I have been screamed at multiple times by women because they believe that I was talking down to them, when in fact, I was just being respectful.  Heaven forbid I didn't say "yes ma'am/no ma'am" growing up, or my mother would smack me up side the head.  The point here is that sometimes, women have a chip on their shoulders and take respect as looking down on them, and no, I am not saying all women do this, just that it does happen.

    I have played MMO's with various women for 20 years.  Never once have I judged a player because they were a woman.  Back in my days in EQ, I was in two different guilds run by women, one a successful raiding guild with her as the raid leader and one that wasn't.  I have seen women consistently perform on par if not better than their male counterparts in raids.

    When my daughter was 4, I built her her first computer and bought her her own copy of WoW.  By the time she was 6, she was playing well enough that she could log in with my rogue and still be in the top 5 DPS on a SSC raid.  By the time she was 10, she was raiding with her own character, a druid and dual spec'ed dps primary and heals secondary.  She was also tearing up the battlegrounds in PVP and always scored really high.  Now at 17, before she transferred servers, she was the best geared shaman on her server and one of the top healers on the server.  In the 13 years she has been playing, only a hand full of people ever talked down to her, and that was primarily when she was younger.  Up till she was 14, I always had her computer next to mine in my office so that I could keep an eye on her, other than one pedo incident, her ignore list remained relatively small.  I know a young lady, who growing up, has pretty much the same story as my daughter, except for it happened in EQ.

    I tell the story about my daughter, because it shows that at an early age, she shattered the stereotypes of what a girl gamer was.  I also use it to point out that people loved playing with her, not because she was a girl, but because she pulled her own weight in a group or raid and because of it, she was treated as an equal from an early age.  I guess it goes to really show the difference between the Gen X,Y and Millennial generations.

    I have never judged a woman for being a woman, but by the same way I judge everyone,  and that is whether they are someone I can enjoy a game with or if they are an idiot I have to endure while playing the game.  

    I am an equal opportunity asshole. 
  • Elloa said:
    I remember the early days of gaming where to be a girl was AMAZING!! As a female player it was always fun and flattering to see the reactions of male players when they discovered my gender. "OMG! Elloa you are a girl in REAL LIFE???!!!"
    I must confess, it was fun and pleasant to feel special.

    Now, I also must say that my position had always been a bit different. Even 12 years ago. I was already a mother, a little bit older than most, always in couple, so basically clearly not "free for taking". I've also always been leading projects, communities,  guilds, before to become a content creator 5 years ago. So I guess that people do not have the same behaviour towards me than to other females.
    I rarely had any sort of issues or harrassements. Sometimes a little bit on TwitchTV or some odd comment on Youtube, but that's to be expected I suppose
    This thread was not started as a conversation as to compare notes on female harassment in previous years.  I will tell you though Things were different 20yrs ago compared to 12 years ago and they have improved immensely.  Being married, a mother an d a co-leader of a   multi-gaming guild did not stop harassment back then and it had nothing to do with being "free for
     taking".  

    "I rarely had any sort of issues or harrassements. Sometimes a little bit on TwitchTV or some odd comment on Youtube, but that's to be expected I suppose "  If you say so.

    As far as I'm concerned this thread has ended. 
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