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Group Size/Livestream

ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
in Ashes Of Creation General Discussion
I noticed they mentioned shooting for an 8 man party size in the livestream yesterday.  Not sure if they meant this is just the max party size or what's needed to run a dungeon.  I remember EQ was 6 and how it was a pain to form groups.  Any opinions on this?
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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    8 man is the party size and they'll balance with that in mind. So yeah dungeons will probably be 8 man. Then raids will be formed with multiple groups.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I believe the current idea behind it atm is that there are 8 archetypes therefore 8 party slots. All subject to change of course. I'm sure alpha and beta experience will help determine what group size is best for Ashes :)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I see only see it being a problem with tanks and healers.  If its 6 dps 1 tank and 1 heal, that would be kool.  However any combination I would be fine with. Sounds awesome though that many in a party. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Hmm...still seems odd.  Party size being determined by the number of primary classes instead of class roles (tank, healer, dps, cc).  If there's a way to make it work then I'm certainly open to it.  Though I suspect it could all change completely in the coming months.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I don't see the problem with 6 mages and two others in a party ;)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    8 is the max party size.
    There will be lots of stuff to do in a dungeon besides just combat.
    We might be bringing along adventurers focused on utility rather than combat.
    We might also be bringing along non-combatant artisans.

    Ashes game design should seem odd.
    That's the main reason to play this game.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Interesting, I never would have guessed 8 man parties until yesterday. I guess with 8 classes I see the thought process. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I am interested to see how they will make each class unique and valuable enough so you will want to have every class in your party.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Zastro said:
    I am interested to see how they will make each class unique and valuable enough so you will want to have every class in your party.
    YES! We want VARIETY and VIABILITY!
    For a 8 men party I mostly see 1 main tank 1 off tank in case things go crazy 1 main healer/buffer 1 buffer/dps 4 main dps/ +something.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    lexmax said:
    I don't see the problem with 6 mages and two others in a party ;)
    Cause mages are OP.  :p
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    When I saw where they said that each archetype or class was going to have a utility skill that only it had, and that dungeons where going to have content that is only unlockable by specific classes, meaning that each class would have something only it could do in the dungeon. I was not surprised to hear 8 is the group size
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    To me, this signals a slight twist of the basic "Trinity" system. You have your base tank/heals/ DPS, but maybe groups bring a buffer or debuffer, or they have room for a utility character who unlocks doors and finds secrets.

    Basically you have a tank, healer, buffer/off heals, 4 DPS and a utility class. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    lexmax said:
    I don't see the problem with 8 mages and two others in a party ;)
    FTFY :)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    I hope there will be dungeons where we'll be wanting 4 Clerics in the party to Purge diseases and other afflictions rather than having everything so heavily focused on combat that we want 4 DPS.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    The problem with a relative big group size of 8 people is that the chance of problems increase significantly.

    The upside is that there will probably be need for an off-tank/healer and dps-support roles in certain situations. 

    Random groups will be pure madness, just imagine running with 7 guys who dont know the boss mechanics and perform their role mediocre..
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    We will rarely know the boss mechanics since instanced dungeons/raids will be rare and repeatable dungeons/raids even rarer.
    And, I'm not sure who will be deciding what a character's role is.

    In Ashes, we shouldn't really have to rely much on PUGs.
    Since we will be living in a town/city that we continue support -especially if we are citizens- we should be very familiar with the other characters supporting the town.
    We should know who like to group with, how they like to play, where in town they live and the time they are likely to be online.

    We should expect to not know what group config is best when we first encounter a dungeon or raid.
    And expect that we might need to return to town without completing the dungeon in order to recruit other people who have the specific skills and abilities needed for that specific dungeon or raid.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Waysm said:
    Zastro said:
    I am interested to see how they will make each class unique and valuable enough so you will want to have every class in your party.
    YES! We want VARIETY and VIABILITY!
    For a 8 men party I mostly see 1 main tank 1 off tank in case things go crazy 1 main healer/buffer 1 buffer/dps 4 main dps/ +something.
    Maybe one tank and one off tank. 1 healer and one off-healer. Like one healer is dedicated to healing the Melee and one healing the ranged. Then 4 DPS.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Neviathan said:
    The problem with a relative big group size of 8 people is that the chance of problems increase significantly.

    The upside is that there will probably be need for an off-tank/healer and dps-support roles in certain situations. 

    Random groups will be pure madness, just imagine running with 7 guys who dont know the boss mechanics and perform their role mediocre..
    Oh that will happen a lot I'm sure. Especially in the beginning. That is one of many reasons I am excited about this game. I can't wait to get in there as a tank and learn these dungeons with a group of people. Its gonna be grand! Then when the game has been out for a while the veterans can teach the new players.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Trede said:
    lexmax said:
    I don't see the problem with 8 mages and two others in a party ;)
    FTFY :)
    That would be fun! Maybe have it to where the mobs in that dungeons are very strong with the corruption, but when the Clerics go in there and cleanse the corruption the mobs get weaker, so a bunch of dps is not needed.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Dygz said:
    We will rarely know the boss mechanics since instanced dungeons/raids will be rare and repeatable dungeons/raids even rarer.
    And, I'm not sure who will be deciding what a character's role is.
    How can they be rare when they actually want people to do them over and over to climb the leaderboards?
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Ninja Shadow said:
    When I saw where they said that each archetype or class was going to have a utility skill that only it had, and that dungeons where going to have content that is only unlockable by specific classes, meaning that each class would have something only it could do in the dungeon. I was not surprised to hear 8 is the group size
    Based on comments they made in yesterday's live stream (each archetype has an important role to play in the group) and comments in previous live streams regarding the various abilities/utility skills, I see the possibility of having dungeons where only a Mage can see that a wall is an illusion, or only a Ranger can see the footprints leading through that illusionary wall, or perhaps there's a trap that can only be disarmed by a Rogue, etc...

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    TheCouchNerd said:
    Dygz said:
    We will rarely know the boss mechanics since instanced dungeons/raids will be rare and repeatable dungeons/raids even rarer.
    And, I'm not sure who will be deciding what a character's role is.
    How can they be rare when they actually want people to do them over and over to climb the leaderboards?
    The devs don't want people to repeat dungeons and raids over and over to climb the leaderboards.
    Dungeons and raids will have leaderboards, but that's not the driving motivation to do dungeons and raids in Ashes. Especially not from the dev perspective.
    The driving motivations in Ashes are the Four Pillars: Economy, Nodes, Meaningful Conflict and Narrative.

    Ashes is focused on dynamic content with meaningful consequences rather than static content that you repeat regardless of whether you win or lose.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Dygz said:
    TheCouchNerd said:
    Dygz said:
    We will rarely know the boss mechanics since instanced dungeons/raids will be rare and repeatable dungeons/raids even rarer.
    And, I'm not sure who will be deciding what a character's role is.
    How can they be rare when they actually want people to do them over and over to climb the leaderboards?
    The devs don't want people to repeat dungeons and raids over and over to climb the leaderboards.
    Dungeons and raids will have leaderboards, but that's not the driving motivation to do dungeons and raids in Ashes. Especially not from the dev perspective.
    The driving motivations in Ashes are the Four Pillars: Economy, Nodes, Meaningful Conflict and Narrative.

    Ashes is focused on dynamic content with meaningful consequences rather than static content that you repeat regardless of whether you win or lose.
    They pretty much said it was a way to repeat dungeons instead of doing it for loot.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    I'm hoping that dungeons will have different levels, as in a party of eight can split into groups of four and cover different areas of the dungeon to accomplish different tasks/take down different monsters to trigger things in the dungeon.. constantly communicating due to some areas having some kind of effect on the others. I just want something different from the typical, "go to first room -> kill boss -> second room -> kill boss -> 3rd room -> kill boss -> finish". Hmm.. seems I'm recalling Log Horizon.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Eight is certainly an odd number for a party size, but it makes sense if raid groups are going to be 40 people.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall during a livestream that being the number they were shooting for a raid size.  Pragmatically speaking, you'll want your party size number to be a mathematical factor of the raid group number.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Opiee said:
    Eight is certainly an odd number for a party size, but it makes sense if raid groups are going to be 40 people.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall during a livestream that being the number they were shooting for for raid size.  Pragmatically speaking, you'll want your party size number to be a mathematical factor of the raid group number.
    Yes, that seems to be the way IS are intending to balance the game, based on groups of 8.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Dygz said:
    The devs don't want people to repeat dungeons and raids over and over to climb the leaderboards.
    Dungeons and raids will have leaderboards, but that's not the driving motivation to do dungeons and raids in Ashes. Especially not from the dev perspective.
    The driving motivations in Ashes are the Four Pillars: Economy, Nodes, Meaningful Conflict and Narrative.

    Ashes is focused on dynamic content with meaningful consequences rather than static content that you repeat regardless of whether you win or lose.
    TheCouchNerd said:
    They pretty much said it was a way to repeat dungeons instead of doing it for loot.
    Um. No. Because the majority of the dungeons and raids are open rather than instanced, so once someone defeats the boss, that boss is gone.
    The dungeons don't repopulate with the same challenges and mobs and bosses, and will disappear relatively quickly and spawn later elsewhere - again with different challenges, mobs and bosses.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Ashes of Creation Livestream July 18, 2017 mark 58:53

    QUESTION: Will there be raid scoreboards?

    JEFFREY: Yes. Actually that's something we've been talking about. We can do a lot more with dungeons than what has traditionally been done. And we want to create incentives beyond just, "Hey, I'm going to get this item," that involve our dungeons that involve a little bit more consequential and a little bit more fun. So, that's something we're really focused on is pulling the fun out in places where you wouldn't necessarily expect it.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest

    Will there be instanced dungeons and raid content that will require a set of amount of players to follow mechanics properly to defeat, or will it be more open world where you can go in with any amount of players?

    • Both.  As it stands now, many dungeons in the world have an open world component, with several instance access points that parties can participate in.  We want to maintain the open world feel while being able to capitalize on the benefits of instanced mechanics.  We will go into more depth in a blog soon.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Nothing in the dev quote I posted above about repeating dungeons/raids in order to climb the leaderboards/scoreboards.
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