Does the combat system need a make over

ArchivedUser

I personally think that the combat looks waaaaay too slow.. the more and more I watch the currently released vids, the more I realise how slow it looks..
  As someone said, let's give them a chance and see what they can do, if they can speed it up somewhat, that would be great.
  My personal preference is, that I hate slow combat.. And I think long cast times should be used purely for nuker skills, especially if there is long cooldowns times, I hate standing around doing nothing while waiting for cooldowns.
  But yeah, let's see how they go.. They might do good.

ArchivedUser

What really matters is if you sharpened your sword!

ArchivedUser

I cannot judge what i cannot yet play or experience. This whole poll, and sorry I'm going to be harsh here, is a complete and total jump of the gun and downright baffling request based on non existent information that you cannot possibly posses at this point in time. In summary, bloody ridiculous LULZ!

ArchivedUser

it's been described as a tab action hybrid so untill we see more game-play or actually play it in alpha etc it's a bit early to really say it needs changing

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

What really matters is if you sharpened your sword!

Lol, its always sharp always ready

ArchivedUser

I said yes because I feel that new games are adding combo elements to mmorpgs. Like you have basic attacks and heavy attacks and you chain in a certain sequence to do more damage. When I play games that implement a combo system it feels so much more fluid and dynamic. But that only makes sense to the basic attacks. If you were a mage it wouldn't really do much, but if u had the ability to chain spells, like freezing a creature and then shattering it, it would be pretty cool. If you had the chance to play dauntless, even for alpha the combat system is pretty fun.

ArchivedUser

gethian said:

I said yes because I feel that new games are adding combo elements to mmorpgs. Like you have basic attacks and heavy attacks and you chain in a certain sequence to do more damage. When I play games that implement a combo system it feels so much more fluid and dynamic. But that only makes sense to the basic attacks. If you were a mage it wouldn't really do much, but if u had the ability to chain spells, like freezing a creature and then shattering it, it would be pretty cool. If you had the chance to play dauntless, even for alpha the combat system is pretty fun.

Agreed, what they are concerned about is that using that kind of system removes strategy from fights.. However like you stated if you can do combos to allow more synergy to your spells/attacks it wont take away from strategy and add an increase level of skill to the game.. 

ArchivedUser

Combo system removes strategy? Devs said that?

ArchivedUser

Flatline said:

gethian said:

I said yes because I feel that new games are adding combo elements to mmorpgs. Like you have basic attacks and heavy attacks and you chain in a certain sequence to do more damage. When I play games that implement a combo system it feels so much more fluid and dynamic. But that only makes sense to the basic attacks. If you were a mage it wouldn't really do much, but if u had the ability to chain spells, like freezing a creature and then shattering it, it would be pretty cool. If you had the chance to play dauntless, even for alpha the combat system is pretty fun.

Agreed, what they are concerned about is that using that kind of system removes strategy from fights.. However like you stated if you can do combos to allow more synergy to your spells/attacks it wont take away from strategy and add an increase level of skill to the game.. 

"Strategy from fights" huh? If you're not able to oneshot an opponent and your combat system is chained based (like chaining CC's together of different types) then that's a great fight with plenty of strategy. You'll have to actively guess, stratgieze, and anticpate your opponents moves/behavior in order to shut them down. An example would be early Age of Wushu (first year of the game), and even BDO (if you both have similar gear score). 

AoW had a great "rock, paper, scissor" mechanic in it's skills (block, parry, attack).
BDO has a great action combat style using CC as the "chain" to link attacks together.

If AoC was to mimic these types of action combat i'd be a happy camper. Though we won't really know till they let some ppl play at PaX, and even then combat system could be completely revamped right before launch (we got like 2 years). 

ArchivedUser

We have next-to-zero info re: the combat style, so it's a bit silly to say that they need to change.

ArchivedUser

I posted this on another's thread and thought it would be useful to the discussion here too

I think the combat we've seen so far is very basic in their animation talent and I do hope to see a massive improvement and I know there will be for the animations so far has been pre-alpha. PAX will give us a better idea of what to expect but remember 

• PAX combat is fixed to the 4 Primary archetypes Mage, Tank, Cleric and Ranger
• The classes present at PAX have set races
• They have also been given set weapons. We know at launch your character won't be weapon restricted.
• Class trees won't be available 
• Class Secondary archetypes are not available at PAX (so no augments even "double down" augments e.g tank/tank is not available)
• The skill bar is restricted to 5 main skills 1 keystroke 1 ultimate and 1 utility skill ( this may not reflect the actual options available at launch)

^ all of this and probably more reasons is why it's only 20% of what we will see.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AoCtheOdyssey/status/892318927547707397/video/1
If you haven't seen this is a snipped of the animation for cleric with staff. It's a nice animation and I look forward to seeing more ^^

Breakdown of skill types :

5 MAIN SKILLS : 5 class abilities.

1 KEYSTROKE SKILL: A keystroke time frame combat system that activates based off your weapon use. Every player will have a weapon which generates keystroke energy. The weapon will influence the total damage you do, other conditions and stats associated with weapon type. One of the most integral parts of having a weapon is your WEAPON USE ABILITY and that weapon use ability contains within it a keystroke driven/ precision type combat that then allocates energy to the ability to use a certain ultimate skill that your class is going to have.These are to take place of a boring auto attacks. You do not have to do keystrokes - you can just auto the attack but the keystroke allows you to generate energy for an ultimate skill.

1 ULTIMATE SKILL: Special skill determined by weapon type that can be activated by enough energy accumulated from KEYSTROKE. Skills will be “enough time” so when used strategically can “turn the tide” and be game changing.

1 UTILITY SKILL: Each class has a utility skill that isn’t necessarily dependent on a combat situation. Utility skills grant the player the ability to interact with their environment and hazards that may exist within that environment. A unique way to gather information about the world that another player may not be able to do.  Utility skills are NOT spammable so will need to be strategically used because they will have cool-downs.

Even though Ashes will be a cross Tab target/ motion combat I don't think it will be boring because a good player will need to make the most of their positioning, keystroke ability and combination skills they can make with other group members 

PAX/Alpha/Betas etc will help us get a better vision and understanding of the combat system ^^ Time will tell 

ArchivedUser

The game is not even out yet..... how could one possibly start asking for it to be dumbed down? I LOVE that the combat will take some THOUGHT!!
"oh we are both near same level but you have that awesome weapon that you think can one hit kill me cause I am in low armour?? well what if I out think you and you end up dead under my lowly boot??? "
I LOVE THAT!!!

ArchivedUser

If spell CC effects generated defensive animations similar to the way Thor is reacting to this fiery devastation... 

ArchivedUser

Well obviously, have you seen the pre-alpha gameplay it looks so damn alpha It could be concept proving and not the actual finished product...

ArchivedUser

I cant ofc say anything before testing it, but imo combat should be more like action in nowdays than old boring tab targeting system. OP gave good examples TERA and BlackDesert, which have done this part very well.

So i would say maybe YES. ;-)

ArchivedUser

I'm not sure what the combat is supposed to be, I know there was some things I didn't totally take from other mmos.  I remember my hand hurting after manning the mouse and keyboard in a fast paced action romp, but falling asleep in a far slower setting.  time wil tell.

ArchivedUser

We haven't really seen a demo of combat in Ashes yet, players who get to try the game out at events like PAX will be able to better answer this question. The rest of us just need to wait and see, for now.

ArchivedUser

Target combat in 2017 ? Nontarget that is the thing that make new mmorpg so nice to play. If I would like to  play target combat I would play WoW . The target system is too much old. Nontarget combat way more smooth and fun.

 Pressing 1,2,3,4,5... or dodging  and blocking spells and making combos like shift+left mouse click , s+f , w+f , shift+e, shift +q , q, e,s+lmc+rmc , shift + lmc, shift+right mouse click and so on... Look at the combat of BDO and than watch the combat of WoW , great difference.

  It is a shame for such mmorpg  as AoC to have an old bad system when we have such great nontarget combat . Hold right mouse , click in the enemy or just aim any enemy you want , much easier than target system and much more comfortable too ...
And than it goes to making scripts and macro  in order to play with a target system .

But yea people from WoW may not accept it for some reason.  Most likely they think they will play as scrubs by moving to new game mechanics from the old one , that they played for years. But dont worry it will take you about 30 min to get used to it.

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

Target combat in 2017 ? Nontarget that is the thing that make new mmorpg so nice to play. If I would like to  play target combat I would play WoW . The target system is too much old. Nontarget combat way more smooth and fun.

 Pressing 1,2,3,4,5... or dodging  and blocking spells and making combos like shift+left mouse click , s+f , w+f , shift+e, shift +q , q, e,s+lmc+rmc , shift + lmc, shift+right mouse click and so on... Look at the combat of BDO and than watch the combat of WoW , great difference.

  It is a shame for such mmorpg  as AoC to have an old bad system when we have such great nontarget combat . Hold right mouse , click in the enemy or just aim any enemy you want , much easier than target system and much more comfortable too ...
And than it goes to making scripts and macro  in order to play with a target system .

But yea people from WoW may not accept it for some reason.  Most likely they think they will play as scrubs by moving to new game mechanics from the old one , that they played for years. But dont worry it will take you about 30 min to get used to it.

Well said

ArchivedUser

@Eleanc

Oldschool or not is in no relation to good or bad. Thinking youre preferences are automaticly better then other ones is sad and arrogant. Both systems have their pros and cons and there are some interesting debates about that topic. I personaly like the idea of a mix a lot cause even if i like the action combat of bdo cause i can show my skill with the keyboard i think it takes away a part of strategic play that tab targeting offers. It feels more like a beat em up with many skills. 

With what i see so far combat of AoC has potential but needs some work.Im sure they work on improving it and lets see what they will make out of it. 

Maybe it will even help them to read some constructive critics from the forum. But contributions like yours .. not helpfull att all in my opinion.

ArchivedUser

Sora_NGNL said:

@Eleanc

Oldschool or not is in no relation to good or bad. Thinking youre preferences are automaticly better then other ones is sad and arrogant. Both systems have their pros and cons and there are some interesting debates about that topic. I personaly like the idea of a mix a lot cause even if i like the action combat of bdo cause i can show my skill with the keyboard i think it takes away a part of strategic play that tab targeting offers. It feels more like a beat em up with many skills. 

With what i see so far combat of AoC has potential but needs some work.Im sure they work on improving it and lets see what they will make out of it. 

Maybe it will even help them to read some constructive critics from the forum. But contributions like yours .. not helpfull att all in my opinion.

Says the guy with his own opinion.... Haha GTFO

ArchivedUser

play the game when its not still in development then make up your mind,

ArchivedUser

@Flatline

I guess youre mother didnt teach you the diffrence between opinion and just saying something is better cause its not oldschool . Btw if you talk to her someday take the opportunity and ask her for manners as well

Last comment to that topic from what i read so far i dont expect a productive answer from you anymore and i dont want this to escalate.  But surprise me if you want.

ArchivedUser

Sora_NGNL said:

@Flatline

I guess youre mother didnt teach you the diffrence between opinion and just saying something is better cause its not oldschool . Btw if you talk to her someday take the opportunity and ask her for manners as well

Last comment to that topic from what i read so far i dont expect a productive answer from you anymore and i dont want this to escalate.  But surprise me if you want.

" opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge"

Didn't have to talk to my mom to figure it out, Google did it for me.. But considering you like to bring mom's it' my opinion you still live with yours.... 😉 I rememer my first beer. 

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

We don't know anything about the Ashes combat system except some vague pre-alpha videos. Surely you need to wait until something is actually released before you can give it a makeover?

Is it not too late at that point?

I'll give an example. Elder Scrolls online. At it's release, it was horrible, so horrible in fact that many players never bothered coming back. So getting the systems right from the get go, is going to be important, because people will make up their minds really quickly.

That being said, without being privy to access, whatever people like me say on the combat system, take it with a grain of salt. I'm not going to vote for an overhaul.

ArchivedUser

Personally, I think the combat is fine the way it is. The combo bar was a placeholder, and in some regards, yes, I believe it should go. But the idea in itself isn't terrible, it was just executed poorly. No one wants to stare at their ability bar the entire fight to execute a basic attack "combo". It would serve better as an animation put into pre-existing attacks, showing when it would be best to execute a follow up, rather than something that moves the players eyes from the fight. Speaking now specifically of why I prefer this over other forms of combat, this kind of combat lets me think and strategize while I fight. It can still be fast paced and intense, but it also lets me pause for a moment and see what I should do next. Also, tab-target/action hybrids allow for more complexity within a moveset, while in games such as BnS and BDO, you're just spamming the same button over and over again. It might feel more "Intense" but to me it just seems like some endless quicktime event asking you to press "X" every time the opponent moves.

ArchivedUser

RisingDemise said:

Personally, I think the combat is fine the way it is. The combo bar was a placeholder, and in some regards, yes, I believe it should go. But the idea in itself isn't terrible, it was just executed poorly. No one wants to stare at their ability bar the entire fight to execute a basic attack "combo". It would serve better as an animation put into pre-existing attacks, showing when it would be best to execute a follow up, rather than something that moves the players eyes from the fight. Speaking now specifically of why I prefer this over other forms of combat, this kind of combat lets me think and strategize while I fight. It can still be fast paced and intense, but it also lets me pause for a moment and see what I should do next. Also, tab-target/action hybrids allow for more complexity within a moveset, while in games such as BnS and BDO, you're just spamming the same button over and over again. It might feel more "Intense" but to me it just seems like some endless quicktime event asking you to press "X" every time the opponent moves.

I can agree with this, a hybrid would make sense with refinement to the animations. I don' want to look like I'm playing mine craft all stiff and clunky

ArchivedUser

"Something modern like BDO" No need to say more than no.

ArchivedUser

Combat is in alpha just like the rest of the game, let's wait and see what it turns out to be.

ArchivedUser

Can't comment yet since I didn't try it.

Soon TM