Does the combat system need a make over

ArchivedUser

I don't know, the combat is not there yet for me to have an opinion about it.
All I can say of what we have seen is that it looks incomplete.

ArchivedUser

Way to early to tell but from the first livestream of Alpha 0 family and friends test its definitely coming out better than previous showings. They have stated multiple times that their will be tab targeting and non tab targeting abilities for those who care.

ArchivedUser

The stream last Friday gave a us yet another look at the combat, more advanced than the showing at pax but still a long way from anything near a completed system. It is evolving but until I personally can get to experience some game play pretty much holding off saying too much.

Not that I could as its under NDA at this point, but what we were shown on Friday combat is slowly becoming more evolved.

ArchivedUser

While I love action combat, I prefer it not to go the way of Dynasty Warriors. Much like BDO appears to be. Every attack being AOE, designed to kill hordes of mindless NPCs is not ideal to me and posses very little challenge. The challenge most of those games, from what I can see, is that you have to memorize the key combos much like a fighter game.

Action to me is a skill based, risk/reward, tactical with some twitch. Pure twitch is not a western style and while I loved them in my past (Gunz online?) I prefer my thought process, mixed with execution to be higher reward. If I do go flashy, I go more shadows of mordor/shadows of war. You feel powerful, without just spamming dash, fast, slow attack, etc.

TL:DR
Action is nice, but huge, flashy, AOE spam is not.

ArchivedUser

Badss said:

TL:DR
Action is nice, but huge, flashy, AOE spam is not.

BDO isn't the only way to do action combat. Designers can keep the pace of western mmos and still allow the control of action combat. You can already see hints of it in their action abilities. Just because abilities don't use tab targeting doesn't mean the combat becomes a fast paced, dashing, iframe filled fiasco.

ArchivedUser

Agreed, and I attempted to address that in this post
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/37476/movement-speed-in-combat#latest

Dark Souls and Dragons Dogma are in the same "category" of action as BDO but vastly different. 

I think the main driving forces are the decision for multiple mobs vs single hard ones (requiring more AOE skills, typically followed by flashy animations) and the movement speed of the character in combat.

Action/Skill/Twitch are all terms used interchangeably that really shouldn't be.



If you are specifically referring to Skill based vs tab target. They are planning on allowing people to choose talents that will alter their combat accordingly.

ArchivedUser

Action-Combat != Fast, just like Tab-Target != Slow, and really Action and Tab-Target are very similar, more so than most people seem to think. I would go as far to say that Action-Combat is basically Tab-Target in it's foundation, just with some added/changed rules.

ArchivedUser

The combat system needs some work if it plans to be on par with some other mmorpgs but right now is the time to make suggestions stating the specific game mechanics you would like to see.  For example melee combat could have a sprint feature to land a more powerful blow to target. Or sprinting and then jumping and then doing a 360 to land some other type of special attack.  So it is not just run up to monster and push buttons. 

Game is not due out till the end of 2019 if there are no delays so yeah it is way to early to judge it and say it is good or bad.  We are in developing stage not to much into the testing stage. 

ArchivedUser

Nothing to really see and know about yet. The idea of some skills being tab target and some being more action is really cool. Some players can have the more BDO feel, and some can have the more FFXIV tradition... or a hybrid. Letting the players choose their style sounds great (if they can pull it off). 

ArchivedUser

ya very weird in making this poll about combat when we don't know nothing about it since not all the skills are released and no combat testing has been implemented besides animations? It's only alpha-0 and this thread seems like bashing a game before it's even finished.

ArchivedUser

Alpha combat is alpha.  Besides...I kind of like the idea of a hybrid system.

ArchivedUser

I think the combat looks great as it is and it will look even better as the alphas and betas progress.

ArchivedUser

The only thing I dont want to see is excatly this eastern mmo type combat, where all you do is spam your keyboard and mouse for flashy effects, I wouldn't call the current combat style outdated, simply western mmo's have a different style compared to eastern ones (there are exceptions of course).

In fact I'm pretty satisfied with the current combat, with small adjustments it'll be great, but well that's just my opinion.

ArchivedUser

I watched a few streamers complaining about combat so therefore there is a problem? 

ArchivedUser

I'm kind of new in all this but from what I've seen (from YouTube and junk) it's just clicking or getting in the red zone for a higher attack, I don't really know much about it but if it were to be like that or something a lot like that is want something a little more engaging 

ArchivedUser

I voted no, however there should have been a third option saying still to early to make and informed decision. Maybe Beta 2 if combat is a train wreck then we need to storm the castle with the pitch forks and torches.

ArchivedUser

Honestly, still too early to be able to say if it needs to be changed or not, I mean it's still pre-alpha, cut the designers some slack. Personally I really like a combination of WoW's and GW2's combat, I play both regularly. I really like how combat in GW2 plays (free cam), but. I think GW2 has a little too little amount of skills at the same time. I like the amount of skills for classes/specs in WoW, however miss the 'free' cam/control of skills in WoW. A combination of the two would be perfect for me personally.

ArchivedUser

I would like a game with a combat system that has a mix of Vindictus and Street Fighter lol. A combat system revolving around attack and defense mechanic. Left click - light attack, right click - heavy attack and a key for blocking. Dodge/strafe or roll moves and using key inputs to attack or use skills. If a makeover was possible I would want it to be that. But I see they're leaning in to more of the traditional mechanic so whether it's tab target or action, it'll still just be a move and click game to me.

ArchivedUser

From the footage soon to us of the current status of the game it looks good, but the combat seems slow and a light janky. especially for the bow. For myself I like to use bows or rogue type classes and some combat systems do them justice but tab targeting takes out the fun of using them. Turning them into spam and dodge repeats. In games like Elder scrolls V or Warframe bows felt awesome, pulling back the bow and lining up the shot, counting in the arrow drop, and then letting loss the arrow. after getting a hit you just feel that satisfaction of make the shot.

how AoC could do a similar action combat. Arrow strength would be on a charge, longer you hold it [RMB] the stronger it will be and the farther it will go. [LMB] will zoom in similar to warframe for better accuracy. When firing the arrow There will be a percentage of player acquisition to a reasonable degree but not to much, and so when firing the bow the arrow will have a maybe 75% chance of hitting when fired and the target with a long enough charge or ability and the other 25% is encase they dodge when fired. In this way it makes it easier on servers to relay the information reducing possible lag.  combos for a bow archetype seems out of place instead switch it with critical hits hitting heads, joints, and heart cause critical hits like combos. Special abilities that amplify the bow would only change the ammo type and not necessarily the bow mechanics. To infuse "magic" into the bow the caster will need time and once fired the arrow could have a lock on or it could be based on player skill. Ulitity abilities could work the same. 

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

Badss said:

TL:DR
Action is nice, but huge, flashy, AOE spam is not.

BDO isn't the only way to do action combat. Designers can keep the pace of western mmos and still allow the control of action combat. You can already see hints of it in their action abilities. Just because abilities don't use tab targeting doesn't mean the combat becomes a fast paced, dashing, iframe filled fiasco.

Excatly! I know my answer comes a little bit late, but i still wanted to point out this comment. Even people are speaking of action combat, it does not automatically mean fast paced combat where no-one knows whats happening. It can also be reasonable paced to make more sense. Actually i have now used non-targeting instead action combat so people wont get wrong impressions. 

It is just soooo much satisfying f.e. to land manually targetet fireball, arrow or any other skillshot from distance. Non-targeting will also give dodge, movement and positioning more meaning when you are not automatically targeted. 

ArchivedUser

Not sure how you can even ask this as the game is barely done with Alpha 0 lol

ArchivedUser

I would assume they focused mainly on getting the game world relatively done during the pre-alpha period, thus why I can't actually make a decision whether I want a system, which we know very little about, changed. 

I expect once the environments etc are done, they will start to focus on the actual gameplay mechanics. Probably during the alpha stages. Only then, can I make a decision. 

ArchivedUser

As someone who played this at Pax East, it seems to a mix of traditional tab targeting along skill shots of various types (Placing AoE's, firing cones off ahead of you). My biggest criticism at the moment is that your 'Weapon Combo' is bound to Q. That makes combat super awkward and it's currently not rebindable.

ArchivedUser

Just curious... do you (or don't) want a change in the combat system regarding its core design or its appearance?

Appearance:
- mobs doing different animations according to what they get hit with;
- every ability used having a visual cue;
- using skeletons and joints in the design of the bodies so that they don't look like moving cubes with a fixed tail;

Core:
- the larger the weapon, the more damage and/or better/more interesting effects it has;
- the larger the weapon, the harder it is for you to carry it, with everything that entails; using better materials/special effects/etc can increase or decrease this effect;
- animation duration should depend on weapon types, sizes, components, etc.
- mobs attacking you can damage your weapon, certain pieces of armor, certain parts of your body if the armor is not thick enough or unfit to protect against that type of attack, everything leading to post-battle trauma (e.g. your leg got bit by a mob => you walk slower and swing slower with certain weapons that rely on having a good balance on your feet);
- each mob can have different affixes and/or suffixes that can make it trigger special abilities or simply give it more stats/etc; the affixes/suffixes can even be hidden from players unless they have certain skills, thus every "duskwood boar" mob has a good chance of being special/unique in terms of how it fights;
- animation canceling should not be a thing.

ArchivedUser

Combat System is incomplete right now, so I can't make a decision based off of that.

ArchivedUser

I said yes because the current combat system is a placeholder.. I would be a little disappointed if they didn't change it and left it as is 

ArchivedUser

Flatline said:

Something more mondern needs to be in place. Something like BDO combat system or tera. The current system looks clunky and old school.

It's too soon in development to be worrying about whether a system should be redone or not. Things are still being created and worked out or even changed and added.

I think at this stage it's just better to be patient and wait and see how things work out. You will never know how something truly is until you actually experience it first. Sometimes things that sound good end up being bad and yet sometimes things that sound bad end up being good. Like I said it's way too soon to speculate as this is in very early stages.

ArchivedUser

I could go with a non-targeting system IF it included "friendly fire" ie. go ahead and cast that fireball, just be sure non of your allies are in the blast zone.

CAST Fireball...….oops

ArchivedUser

Keep an eye out next month /wink