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Armor and Appearance TAB - Playing Dressup

There was a brief discussion earlier today on discord (@Fwuppers and others) about Armor Appearance and I wanted to try and put some of the ideas I had in writing for others to see and discuss. With such a great community I am sure ideas will flow and hopefully some useful feedback will make it to the DEVs.

Some years ago (2009) I played a game called Fallen Earth, one of the features I loved about the game was the Appearance Tab. This TAB duplicated the Armor TAB and any item you placed in a slot would visually replace the item on your character. There was also an ability to hide any items with an "Invisible Armor" item for each slot. Now Fallen Earth had over 20 Armor Slots and I don't expect to see that many in AoC but what I would like to see is Armor Slots and then additional Appearance Slots for items that are for appearance only. I have made a crude drawing below to hopefully make sense of  my rambling.

Also to continue a discussion that came up this morning was about Durability Appearance, basically the idea is that some Armor pieces (Helm, Chest, Legs, Boots, Weapons, etc.) could show wear and tear based on the durability.. 100% - 75% - 50% - 25%. This would of course be a player optional feature and have a check box on the Appearance TAB as well as a Global bypass for those who don't wish to see it at all.

Cheers

Maddstone

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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    That is awesome @Maddstone. Intrepid have confirmed that there will be appearance slots (video link), so I hope it's intuitive like you suggest :)
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    I'd fully endorse this @Maddstone because if we can all wear different types of armor (heavy/medium/small) our actual gear potentially look quite bad. Have an appearance tab will allow us to customize our looks to the nth degree and would allow for true creativity in the world. LOTRO and SWTOR are MMOs who have dabbled successfully with this imo but it could be developed further for sure.

    I'd also endorse being able to use weapon cosmetics providing the weapon type was the same.

    Lets hope IS implement this from the start and not introduce the feature as part of an update or dlc a year into launch.

    PS - that's one big head on the guy in the diagram! :p   

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    Kratz said:

    PS - that's one big head on the guy in the diagram! :p

    Borrowed it from the Interwebs :)

    Maddstone

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    I hope the Institute Appearance slots Like you suggested @Maddstone. Anarchy online had a system like this and i loved being able to make my Character look the way i want. If i really like the way a topaz earring looks but it only buffs the Dex stat and i don't need dexterity, I would like to have the sat benefit and the Aesthetics of a wardrobe.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Kratz said:


    PS - that's one big head on the guy in the diagram! :p   

    That's what she said!!!

    Sorry...my inner 12 year old could not resist.
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    I like how WoW did transmog in Legion. I also like the idea of appearance slots. I'm always spending a lot of time working on my mog sets and my Wife's mog sets as well. Yeah we're cheesy and get matching sets. Well as matching as they can get since she usually plays leather classes and I usually play plate classes.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Really like this idea a lot. I like how you incorporated the armor durability into it. Steven do this!
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017

    I hope IS will reach out to the community at some point on this topic. What we really need is to know what is possible slot wise that will not tax the engine. After that there would be the issue of having all the items created by the Artist, but as most of us know the more slots we have to play with the more items they can sell in the cash shop. And my vision is that some items would be actual Armor / Stat items and others purely cosmetic slots that could be crafted, found or purchased from a cash shop.

    Where I would like to see AoC go is something along this line..

    ARMOR TAB

    Armor (with Stats) - Head / Shoulder / Chest / Hands / Waist / Legs / Feet / Back

    Jewelry (with Stats) - Ears / Neck / Wrist

    APPEARANCE TAB

    The above would have slots on the Appearance TAB with the addition of the following...

    Appearance (cosmetic only) - Face (mask, eye patch, etc.) / Chest (trinket, medals, broche, etc.) / Waist (pouches, purse, etc.) / Torso (tabard) / Back (pack, etc.)

    Appearance - Invisible Armor, this would be a Slot specific item that would allow you to hide the appearance of an item instead of replacing it with a cosmetic.


    This is the Paper Doll from Fallen Earth... not suggesting they take it this far just wanted to show an example. The way most of the armor worked was say you apply a set of gloves, this would take up both slots. But on the Appearance TAB you had several options... apply a set of gloves as a cosmetic replacement.. apply an "Invisible Glove" to either the Left, Right or Both hands to "hide" the items.. or a cosmetic on the Left Hand and Invisible on the Right hand giving the appearance of only wearing a single glove. This may be above and beyond what would be needed in AoC but just wanted to put the idea out there.

    1. Shirt
    2. Pants
    3. Torso
    4. Legs
    5. Head
    6. Eyes
    7. Ears
    8. Mouth
    9. Left Glove
    10. Right Glove
    11. Belt
    12. Shoes
    13. Left Shoulder
    14. Right Shoulder
    15. Left Upper Arm
    16. Right Upper Arm
    17. Left Lower Arm
    18. Right Lower Arm
    19. Left Upper Leg
    20. Right Upper Leg
    Maddstone
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    EQ2 also has appearance slots, though not as many: 1. Cape 2. head 3.chest 4.legs 5. boots/shoes 6. shoulders (upper arms) 7. bracers (not always, sometimes "shoulders" included the look)  8. hands 9-10. weapon(s) 11. bow if equipped/certain backpacks/quivers
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    I've always wondered why no one ever considers tassets
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    So much yes!
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    After that there would be the issue of having all the items created by the Artist, but as most of us know the more slots we have to play with the more items they can sell in the cash shop. And my vision is that some items would be actual Armor / Stat items and others purely cosmetic slots that could be crafted, found or purchased from a cash shop.
    I don't think there will be a cash shop of any kind, even for cosmetics. And I hope there will not be a cash shop of any kind, even for cosmetics.

    As to the idea, I like the general idea of customizable appearance, but I think I may be alone in disliking a system that would replace default appearances.

    In a game like this, where there will be a lot of overlap of equipment between classes, and where PVP could happen anywhere at anytime, I think obscuring what a player is wearing takes away some very relevant information from players.

    Every game out there that has multiple roles or classes, even non MMO titles, go to great length to build avatars that convey game information. Even in relatively classless games like FPS, you can see the weapon an opponent is wielding, and as such make game-play decisions around that.

    If I'm off solo mining in a boarder node, and a couple of reds come over the hill, I want to know if they are geared to kill me, or in crap gear.

    It isn't clear yet, but there may be some potential for archetypes to fill multiple roles, definitely potential for archetypes to implement their roles in different ways, and a strong possibility that some archetypes may share assets. As such, I think a player should have full visual information about another player.

    That being said, I like the idea of customization, so long as players know exactly what someone else is wearing. An example of this would be re-painting armor, or adding a guild or node insignia. I would also support cosmetics that do not obscure equipment, such as a cape slot that did not add stats, or adding cosmetic additions, like feathers to a helm, or other such visual augmentation that does not obfuscate the item its self.
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    I am fashion over function and care more about roleplaying story than combat, so...

    While I think it will be too much of a tech hurdle to add dynamic durability appearance to the mechanics already existing for racial appearance plus dyes... (great if the devs can pull it off, though)
    I would love to see clothing and armor that is threadbare, rusted, or "damaged"...
    Especially for those of us roleplaying followers of @nagash, the Lich King.
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    Dygz said:
    I am fashion over function and care more about roleplaying story than combat, so...

    While I think it will be too much of a tech hurdle to add dynamic durability appearance to the mechanics already existing for racial appearance plus dyes... (great if the devs can pull it off, though)
    I would love to see clothing and armor that is threadbare, rusted, or "damaged"...
    Especially for those of us roleplaying followers of @nagash, the Lich King.
    It's not a tech hurdle, but it does require a lot of man hours. If you want a skin for every 25% durability, that means artists have to create 4 skins for every item.
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    I would love this system :) the amount of detail we've seen in the armour sets for each piece of gear so far has been very impressive. I think a system like this would really help to show of individual details ^^
    I wonder how it would work with tier gear though *ponders*
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Johndoe said:
    Dygz said:
    I am fashion over function and care more about roleplaying story than combat, so...

    While I think it will be too much of a tech hurdle to add dynamic durability appearance to the mechanics already existing for racial appearance plus dyes... (great if the devs can pull it off, though)
    I would love to see clothing and armor that is threadbare, rusted, or "damaged"...
    Especially for those of us roleplaying followers of @nagash, the Lich King.
    It's not a tech hurdle, but it does require a lot of man hours. If you want a skin for every 25% durability, that means artists have to create 4 skins for every item.
    It's actually easier than that with Unreal Engine 4. You can apply material damage modifiers to skins or gear to make it look damaged or worn or wet etc. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HrYwvNJWfU

    You don't need to change the base materials or meshes, so there is only a relatively small marginal effort to create fairly realistic damage.
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    lexmax said:
    It's actually easier than that with Unreal Engine 4. You can apply material damage modifiers to skins or gear to make it look damaged or worn or wet etc. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HrYwvNJWfU

    You don't need to change the base materials or meshes, so there is only a relatively small marginal effort to create fairly realistic damage.

    lexmax thanks for the info... that actually opens up the Durability options in my eyes.. adding dirt and grime to armor.. having the shine fade on metal armor and weapons. What was new fades and show wear over time until you have it repaired and cleaned.

    Maddstone

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    some sort of cursed armour that has low durability but good stats would be great
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    Johndoe said:
    I don't think there will be a cash shop of any kind, even for cosmetics. And I hope there will not be a cash shop of any kind, even for cosmetics.

    Johndoe... I am afraid you may be in for some disappointment then. The Cash Shop is a thing, they have already mentioned it several times for selling mount skins, freehold skins, armor skins, etc.

    They have also already confirmed an appearance change system, they just have not told us to what extreme. But one example would be the Angle and Demon skins, they completely change your appearance. And I know on a couple of occasions they have mentioned wanting the players to be able to look they want and not have to sacrifice stats.. meaning you stat gear is one thing and your appearance gear in another.

    Now that said that doesn't mean there may not be some type of mechanics that allow you to quickly view a players gear stats or maybe even an option of only see others in their equipped gear instead of their cosmetic gears. This will be something to explore and give feedback on during Alpha and Beta.

    Thanks for the feedback.


    Maddstone

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    Johndoe said

    I don't think there will be a cash shop of any kind, even for cosmetics. And I hope there will not be a cash shop of any kind, even for cosmetics.

    Sorry @Johndoe but they have all ready stated there will be a cosmetic cash shop. 
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    nagash said:
    some sort of cursed armour that has low durability but good stats would be great


    Hmm.. could actually be a cool game mechanic to help with economy.. some armor and weapons drop with "cursed" durability and stats,  requires repair by an Artisan skilled in that craft (Armor/Weapon) and specific materials to repair and cleanse.

    Great idea Nagash!

    Maddstone

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    Maddstone said:
    nagash said:
    some sort of cursed armour that has low durability but good stats would be great


    Hmm.. could actually be a cool game mechanic to help with economy.. some armor and weapons drop with "cursed" durability and stats,  requires repair by an Artisan skilled in that craft (Armor/Weapon) and specific materials to repair and cleanse.

    Great idea Nagash!

    Maddstone

    I was just being self and role playing but im glad you like the idea 
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Dygz said:
    I am fashion over function and care more about roleplaying story than combat, so...

    I would love to see clothing and armor that is threadbare, rusted, or "damaged"...
    Especially for those of us roleplaying followers of @nagash, the Lich King.


    I would hope to see armor and weapons available in worn condition as well. Thinking of items that were left behind from the original exodus and being discovered and dug up by the new arrivals. Not all armor should be pretty and shiny.

    And with the demo lexmax provided on UE4, it may even be possible that they could offer skins that "degrade" the appearance of existing armors and weapons. The player could apply the skin and it would retain the overlook of the item but apply some grit and grime and knock the shine of items.. that way you can express yourself as someone who cares about the quality of their gear but so no concerned with how shiny and clean it is...

    "my axe may be crusted with the blood, sweat and tears of my enemies, but she is still sharp enough to split you in half"

    Maddstone

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    lexmax said:
    Johndoe said:
    Dygz said:
    I am fashion over function and care more about roleplaying story than combat, so...

    While I think it will be too much of a tech hurdle to add dynamic durability appearance to the mechanics already existing for racial appearance plus dyes... (great if the devs can pull it off, though)
    I would love to see clothing and armor that is threadbare, rusted, or "damaged"...
    Especially for those of us roleplaying followers of @nagash, the Lich King.
    It's not a tech hurdle, but it does require a lot of man hours. If you want a skin for every 25% durability, that means artists have to create 4 skins for every item.
    It's actually easier than that with Unreal Engine 4. You can apply material damage modifiers to skins or gear to make it look damaged or worn or wet etc. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HrYwvNJWfU

    You don't need to change the base materials or meshes, so there is only a relatively small marginal effort to create fairly realistic damage.
    It's possible to do on its own, but it would have to be dynamically changed for each race and gender, too.
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    I like the idea and have always liked appearance slots ever since SWG. However, I have to disagree with the durability visuals. I like the idea in function but it would double, triple, or quadruple the number of skins and possibly models the team would have to create. With that time they could be making entirely different skins and increase the library of looks we get to choose from.
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    I am hoping for neck and ring slots too. For more casual outfits, show off my pretty necklaces :3
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    I would love it if belts and necklaces would be visual.
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    ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    I thought the devs mentioned that our accoutrements will also be visible - like potions and other accessories?
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    Dygz said:
    lexmax said:
    Johndoe said:
    Dygz said:
    I am fashion over function and care more about roleplaying story than combat, so...

    While I think it will be too much of a tech hurdle to add dynamic durability appearance to the mechanics already existing for racial appearance plus dyes... (great if the devs can pull it off, though)
    I would love to see clothing and armor that is threadbare, rusted, or "damaged"...
    Especially for those of us roleplaying followers of @nagash, the Lich King.
    It's not a tech hurdle, but it does require a lot of man hours. If you want a skin for every 25% durability, that means artists have to create 4 skins for every item.
    It's actually easier than that with Unreal Engine 4. You can apply material damage modifiers to skins or gear to make it look damaged or worn or wet etc. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HrYwvNJWfU

    You don't need to change the base materials or meshes, so there is only a relatively small marginal effort to create fairly realistic damage.
    It's possible to do on its own, but it would have to be dynamically changed for each race and gender, too.
    You can do this generically through the use of "Material Instanced Dynamic (MID)" 

    https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Rendering/Materials/MaterialInstances/index.html#materialinstancedynamic
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    Dygz said:
    I thought the devs mentioned that our accoutrements will also be visible - like potions and other accessories?


    Steven has said that, which leads me to believe that they already have plans for appearance slots on say your belt and other locations for accessories.

    Hopefully in the near future they will give us more information on this and how than currently plan on implementing the system so we can chime in.

    Maddstone

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