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Castles vs. Metropolis

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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Gothix said:
    It's simple. If citizens of same node can not flag on each other at all, this means no PvP in open world, besides in designated events (caravans, sieges).

    At this point this becomes PvE game for me and I will not play it. So I hope this is not the case. Otherwise farewell.
    I am not at all sure how you came to this conclusion.

    The fact there is a small percentage of players that you can't flag doesn't make this a PvE game

  • I get the impression @Gothix
    wants to attack everyone....even allies.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    I hate to say this, but honestly, we might actually be better off if Gothix leaves like he says he is going to. Sort of sounds like he wants to gank anyone and everyone.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    I just noticed how I allowed others to deviate my response from the original thread so I erased it.
  • This thread took many tangents from the original Q by Zastro. Did his Q about taxes ever receive an answer? Because I have not found anything about taxes in Castle related nodes or if a Metro gets taxes from the general Zone beyond its own gates.

  • @Fyziks Has not been clarified yet if sub-nodes will "kick up" taxes to the controlling node if the controlling nodes zoi has expanded to cover them. Same thing with revenue of the up to stage 4 smaller connected nodes to a pvp castle. We know that people will not be able to withdraw tax funds into their personal accounts and that they can only be spent on improvements to the node or defense structures. What has not been clarified is if those 3 nodes "kick up" a percentage to the castle for it to spend on defense or if there are other revenue streams in play that can be spent during the month to boost capability.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    I get the impression @Gothix
    wants to attack everyone....even allies.

    I am more of a "my guild VS everyone else" mentality.

    I play to progress my guild and myself, and I consider everyone else a competition. Helping out node is only a means to the end. After your node is progressed, there is intra-node battle for power as well, so I put my guild first, and everyone else second yes.

    So if I will not be able to attack other players from same node, or from allied nodes, then what's the point. That is not a PvP game for sure.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    I hate to say this, but honestly, we might actually be better off if Gothix leaves like he says he is going to. Sort of sounds like he wants to gank anyone and everyone.

    Again someone who does not understand what "ganking" is.

    Ganking is killing of lower levels. Attacking equal levels is NOT ganking.
  • Gothix said:
    I get the impression @Gothix
    wants to attack everyone....even allies.

    I am more of a "my guild VS everyone else" mentality.

    I play to progress my guild and myself, and I consider everyone else a competition. Helping out node is only a means to the end. After your node is progressed, there is intra-node battle for power as well, so I put my guild first, and everyone else second yes.

    So if I will not be able to attack other players from same node, or from allied nodes, then what's the point. That is not a PvP game for sure.
    In other PvP MMO's, guilds make alliances and pacts with other guilds. A node is nothing more than that, just on a game system level.

    Also, there is no reason to think that every member of any given guild will also be citizens of the same node - the systems are not analogous.

    The fact that players outside of your guild may still be good for your guild is a new concept to many PvP players. Thkse that can't get their head around that notion may not fare well.
  • @Namai the fact that I can not attack anyone from my node or allied nodes and am FORCED to work with them, is what is taking away my OPTIONS. I can not chose to play WITHOUT alliances, and against other guilds.

    I can NOT play with my guild against everyone else. that option is taken away.

    You can argue as much as you want, but if that is what it is, this is not PvX.

    It is PvE, as far as it can be. The fact that they add some PvP mini games into the game, does not make it PvX. It is sad that PvX tag is used so dishonestly for marketing purposes, and I will certainly help raise awareness, so the PvP part of the community knows what they are dealing with here.


    Not being able to flag at all on anyone from your node (even other guilds), and on anyone from allied nodes. And being punished with corruption that reduces your stats and breaks your gear for attacking most of other people, and calling THAT PvX is utter BS.

    I'm sorry for using this language, but this is my honest opinion, I can not use anything else to describe that.

    Enjoy your care bear game people, I hope you will like the Farmville 2.0.
  • Gothix said:
    @Namai the fact that I can not attack anyone from my node or allied nodes and am FORCED to work with them, is what is taking away my OPTIONS. I can not chose to play WITHOUT alliances, and against other guilds.

    I can NOT play with my guild against everyone else. that option is taken away.

    You can argue as much as you want, but if that is what it is, this is not PvX.

    It is PvE, as far as it can be. The fact that they add some PvP mini games into the game, does not make it PvX. It is sad that PvX tag is used so dishonestly for marketing purposes, and I will certainly help raise awareness, so the PvP part of the community knows what they are dealing with here.


    Not being able to flag at all on anyone from your node (even other guilds), and on anyone from allied nodes. And being punished with corruption that reduces your stats and breaks your gear for attacking most of other people, and calling THAT PvX is utter BS.

    I'm sorry for using this language, but this is my honest opinion, I can not use anything else to describe that.

    Enjoy your care bear game people, I hope you will like the Farmville 2.0.
    A game is PvX if there is a reasonable need to attack NPC mobs, and a reasonable need to attack player characters. Your definition of PvP or PvX is not something wven you can logically defend, rather it is simply how you want the ruleset to be.

    Now, AoC is not a game that you can play with an "at war with everyone" mindset. This should be obvious by now.

    Thing is, this is the only way it should be. If a single guild was able to build a node up to Metropolis, then a metropolis doesn't mean anything.

    Now, if thats not fitting in with your idea of a fun MMO - if that sounds like farmville 2.0 to you - then thats fine, dont play. I, however, will. And while I am in a 100v100 siege, I'm sure I'll be thinking about how Farmville the game is, and how it isn't even PvX.

    Meanwhile, I'm sure you will enjoy playing, umm... Crowfall? Civilization Online? Actual Farmville?

    My point is, even though this game may not be exactly what you specifically want, it isnt like you could find a game that is closer to what you want.

    I guess what I'm saying is, see you in game.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Something will come.

    If nothing else, I'll play retail vanilla wow on PvP server when it releases.

    At least I will not have to deal with BS like not being able to flag on anyone, and corruption care bear crap.
  • Gothix said:
    Something will come.

    If nothing else, I'll play retail vanilla wow on PvP server when it releases.

    At least I will not have to deal with BS like not being able to flag on anyone, and corruption care bear crap.
    You think WoW - in any form - is going to offer a better PvP experience than AoC?

    Have at it then, I guess.
  • As things stand now, yes.

    AoC is being designed as PvE game with PvP mini games. Everyone will be able to avoid PvP when he wants, and go join PvP mini games when he wants.

    AoC is simply not a game for men who have a pair. It's a game for sissy boys that are affraid even of own shadow, and cry foul whenever someone attacks them.

    That's not a game for my taste.
  • I dont see any difference to a faction vs faction game....even if those factions are fluid and dynamic player created things called nodes. As they should be.

    To me a node is a more ingame version of a guild. It will probably even require specialist specialist trade guilds and specialist class guilds to really flourish. Rather than an ad-hoc group of people created outside the game with no really meaningful game association except for a name and oath of loyalty.

    So would you attack your own guild mates ? Maybe for dueling which is a thing anyway.
    So why would you expect to attack node mates ? Dueling is still a thing. Even arena tournaments I would expect.

    It seems you are more sore that nodes make guilds redundant. Because I cant really tell any difference between the two except formal (node) and casual (guild) ties.
    Regardless, guilds still have a place to link people...especially if specialist tailor made combat gear and specialist tailor made crafters become a thing.
    Such community networks who 'know someone that can help' .....to perfect your build in a myriad of ways... would be priceless.
    And are such community networks not what the game is really about ?

    There will always be enemy players, guilds, nodes as people will have incompatible agendas they cant resolve. PvP will always happen. Hell start your own node thats gonna hate on everyone. Guarantee you will be the center of non stop PvP.

  • Gothix said:
     
    AoC is simply not a game for men who have a pair. 

    AoC is a game for people that have a brain.

    As said a number of times in this thread, it is not a mindless PvP game, and that is it's single best asset. People that see another player and their first thought is *attack* won't do well at all. People that have the ability to think things through though, people who can figure out if attacking, helping or ignkring that player ia the best thing to do, these people will do.well in AoC.

    As to you claiming people will be able to qvoid PvP... not really. The main economic activity in the game opens you up to PvP, and not only that but PvP from caravans doesn't result in flagging, so no corruption. Players that don't participate in caravans are not going to fare well.

    On top of that, AoC is the only game I know of in almost 20 years where your own house can be destroyed by other players.

    In order to avoid PvP at any time a player wants, they would need to forgo both the caravan system and the node system, as both force PvP on players at times.

    Honestly, I am not 100% sure you have grasped the concepts that AoC is implementing.
  • @rune_relic If you don't see important differences between a guild and a node you must be blind.

    I will tell you just one, in guild you get to set your own standards and say who will be in it and who won't. In node you can't do this.

    So in guild you don't have to accept ****, and you don't have to play with them. In node if **** come to live there, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even attack them since you are in same node as them.

    That's more than enough reason for me to hate this system. And there is bunch more reasons.
  • Gothix said:
    @rune_relic If you don't see important differences between a guild and a node you must be blind.

    I will tell you just one, in guild you get to set your own standards and say who will be in it and who won't. In node you can't do this.

    So in guild you don't have to accept ****, and you don't have to play with them. In node if **** come to live there, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even attack them since you are in same node as them.

    That's more than enough reason for me to hate this system. And there is bunch more reasons.
    So you face adversary, and your first instinct is to run.

    I thought you were a PvP'er. Guess not.

    I can think of a number of ways to get people I reallg don't want in the same node as me to move - and with a PvP based guild behind me (whom are not all citizens of the same node, naturally), it isn't even hard to do.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Namai said:
    Gothix said:
    @rune_relic If you don't see important differences between a guild and a node you must be blind.

    I will tell you just one, in guild you get to set your own standards and say who will be in it and who won't. In node you can't do this.

    So in guild you don't have to accept ****, and you don't have to play with them. In node if **** come to live there, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even attack them since you are in same node as them.

    That's more than enough reason for me to hate this system. And there is bunch more reasons.
    So you face adversary, and your first instinct is to run.

    I thought you were a PvP'er. Guess not.

    I can think of a number of ways to get people I reallg don't want in the same node as me to move - and with a PvP based guild behind me (whom are not all citizens of the same node, naturally), it isn't even hard to do.
    Like i said. The strength of a guild is in its social networks.
    Even if you cant move someone on....it doesnt mean you wont know someone who can do that for you. And vice-versa ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_my_friend
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    But I often find defining the arse that needs removing is a subjective thing.
    So ashes allows that too.
    Hence PvX

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Namai said:
    Gothix said:
    @rune_relic If you don't see important differences between a guild and a node you must be blind.

    I will tell you just one, in guild you get to set your own standards and say who will be in it and who won't. In node you can't do this.

    So in guild you don't have to accept ****, and you don't have to play with them. In node if **** come to live there, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even attack them since you are in same node as them.

    That's more than enough reason for me to hate this system. And there is bunch more reasons.
    So you face adversary, and your first instinct is to run.

    I thought you were a PvP'er. Guess not.

    I can think of a number of ways to get people I reallg don't want in the same node as me to move - and with a PvP based guild behind me (whom are not all citizens of the same node, naturally), it isn't even hard to do.
    You are kinda not very capable of reading with comprehension aren't you?

    Where did I say anything about running? I complained about not being able to attack people from same node. That's completely opposite.


    And actually, since that guy is very likely to stay green, that's extremely hard to do, because anyone who tries will just get his stats reduced, and gear lost.

    Crap game design. But no one sees that, or wants to see it because we have 90% care bear population that doesn't care about anything, as long as they can hide from PvP.


  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    @Gothix
    We dont know 100% how declaring war by node will work yet, if it is indeed a thing. Outside of siege mechanics.
    Regardless, surely you can declare war on many other PvP guilds who refuse to run.
    Or are you afraid there wont be enough other PvP players/guilds to occupy your time ?

    Also supply lines work the same in game as real life. You cut them the node dies. People want their node to survive they must fight....to survive.
  • Guild wars will need to be mutually agreed upon, so you can't war anyone who doesn't want to war you back.

    Don't you get it? This game is designed for care bears 100%.


    You can not attack people from same node or allied nodes at all.
    You cant not war guilds unless they agree to it.
    You can not attack anyone who decides to stay green (unless you like having your stats dropped to 0 and gear, that you grinded months for, lost).
    Long cool down on sieges.


    What you are left with? Caravans? gg. I bet they will find some way to fuck that up too.
    There is NO fighting in this game, there is only pretense of fighting for purposes of game marketing because they hope to draw some of PvP population in as well.

    What they don't realize is even if PvP people come, they will soon see the game for what it is and will quickly leave. This is a PvE game. Few PvP mini games is not what PvP crowd is looking for. And that is only thing that AoC has.


    Don't worry, you should be happy. You have successfully avoided all PvP whatsoever, congrats. Care bears win.
  • Gothix said:
    Namai said:
    Gothix said:
    @rune_relic If you don't see important differences between a guild and a node you must be blind.

    I will tell you just one, in guild you get to set your own standards and say who will be in it and who won't. In node you can't do this.

    So in guild you don't have to accept ****, and you don't have to play with them. In node if **** come to live there, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even attack them since you are in same node as them.

    That's more than enough reason for me to hate this system. And there is bunch more reasons.
    So you face adversary, and your first instinct is to run.

    I thought you were a PvP'er. Guess not.

    I can think of a number of ways to get people I reallg don't want in the same node as me to move - and with a PvP based guild behind me (whom are not all citizens of the same node, naturally), it isn't even hard to do.
    You are kinda not very capable of reading with comprehension aren't you?

    Where did I say anything about running? I complained about not being able to attack people from same node. That's completely opposite.
    When you said you would rather play WoW.

    Rather than making something of the game as it is, you would rather go to the most pointless afterthought of an MMO PvP "system" in existance. 
    And actually, since that guy is very likely to stay green, that's extremely hard to do, because anyone who tries will just get his stats reduced, and gear lost.
    I have a question for you; as a PvP player, if you are attacked, do you fight back?

    Crap game design. But no one sees that, or wants to see it because we have 90% care bear population that doesn't care about anything, as long as they can hide from PvP.


    I disagree with your assumption that the system is crap, but... if 90% of the population are care bears, as you claim, shouldn't Intrepid aim their game at them? Makes far more sense than aiming it at the remaining 10%.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    As much as I love to read conversations, I think y'all are getting a bit off topic. This thread is dedicated to the Castle and Metropolis interaction not the entirety of the pvp system. There are multiple other threads for that conversation.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Zastro said:
    As much as I love to read conversations, I think y'all are getting a bit off topic. This thread is dedicated to the Castle and Metropolis interaction not the entirety of the pvp system. There are multiple other threads for that conversation.
    Without further details anything about taxation will be pure speculation. You would think nodes and castles are complementary and integrated rather than isolated systems. But many MMOs of the themepark kind can and do isolate them because its a team based game rather than a node based game, so they can be treated independantly.

    In other words they could approach the taxation relationship in many different ways. Need nodes 3/4/5/6...in the blogs


  • Gothix said:
    I hate to say this, but honestly, we might actually be better off if Gothix leaves like he says he is going to. Sort of sounds like he wants to gank anyone and everyone.

    Again someone who does not understand what "ganking" is.

    Ganking is killing of lower levels. Attacking equal levels is NOT ganking.

    Ganking is not just attacking lower levels.  If you and your guildees went around ganging up on solo's, that would be ganking as well.  Griefing low lvls is considered ganking because they have absolutely no way to defend themselves.  If a group griefs a solo of equal lvl, it is ganking because he has absolutely no way to defend himself.  If he is able to defend himself because the griefers suck and has a good chance at killing the group then I wouldn't consider it ganking.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited April 2018
    Nibiru79 said:

    Ganking is not just attacking lower levels.  If you and your guildees went around ganging up on solo's, that would be ganking as well. 

    No because this is MMO and you are supposed to play in group.

    You can OPT out of playing with friends BUT then you should accept the consequences that come with this, and that is that you might be killed by a group of players.

    You dying by a group of equal level players is not ganking, that is just your own problem that you opted to play MMO in solo mode.


    People being punished by playing MMO in group, because they killed you while you were solo. That is just ****, and dooms this game to fail.

    Well... maybe it will not fail, if enough of carebears chose to play it. But it will never be considered a real MMO, by anyone except carebears.
  • Closed at request of OP
This discussion has been closed.