PVP System Discussion & Suggestions

ArchivedUser

Hi! My name is Tirithel – I’m one of the Guild Masters of Cynical. We’d like to offer our opinion on the PVP system that this game will showcase and possible remedies to some of our concerns.

Before beginning, I do want to say that I do like the base that Intrepid Studios has presented for open work PvP and PK and their efforts to make it an objective based opt-in system.

How The System Already Works:

Resultant status is displayed by the color of the box!

A Non-Combatant Is:

A “Green” player that absolutely refuses to participate in PVP. This is fine – if you don’t want to participate for whatever reason, you don’t have to fight back. Players will still be able to kill you but they will be “punished” for it.

A Combatant Is:

A “Purple” player is a player that has opted-in to the open work PK. They have either retaliation while being killed as a “Green” player or initiated a fight between a Green/Purple player to gain this status. Combat between purple players is fine since both players have opted in.

A Corrupt Player Is:

A “Red” player is a person that has continuously killed non-combative “Green” players and is being punished by the system. Corrupt players experience additional exp loss, chance to drop gear, and stat degradation. As far as we know, the only remedy to being corrupt is to die lots of times.

What We Believe the Issues to Be:

While we understand the intention of the corruption system (which is to protect players that don’t wish to participate in PK), we don’t believe that a Corrupt player will be overly and unfairly diminished because of their actions. Not only will a Corrupt player risk breaking and losing all his/her gear, but they will also be more likely to lose battles because of the stat degradation. The way that the system is set up it seems like the Corrupt player will not only be punished by the possibility of gear loss, but at an extreme disadvantage because their stats won’t be accurately represented.

TL;DR Gear loss AND stat degradation isn’t fair to a corrupted player.

Possible Remedy:

I believe that without the stat degradation, the bounty system should entice players to hunt the Corrupt without having to nerf their stats. Having a player driven open world game should allow for players to make these choices without being overly penalized. If the reward for killing green players are good enough for a player to want to go red, there should be equal or greater rewards to wanting to be a bounty hunter to kill the corrupt players or protect the green players given that the fight will be fair.

TL;DR We would like a fair shake – the bounty system should be enticing enough that there shouldn’t be both gear loss and stat degradation for corrupted players.

ArchivedUser

Well its devs goal to protect players who dont want to participate to open world PvP. So the mechanic is there for PvE oriented players. So idea is that if you see that your target wont fight back and tries to escape, you have choise to let that guy go or try to kill anyway and take the consequences.

That does not meen there would not been PvP at all, because corrupted players can attack each others and combatant players freely. Even these rules might feel harsh, but those can always be changed after testing. Also its good to start with more punishing rules and come down from there if needed.

I also see that these rules can always play around. People will always find ways to do that. If i would want kill non-combatant players, i could consider to go with small group and with gear i can easily afford to loose. I could also bait bountyhunters to get ambushed.. i would ofc not do that, because i am a model citizen..  

ArchivedUser

The corruption system is supposed to be a deterrent to ambushing non-flagged players.   Those same players that get ganked also lose experience if when they die as they would if killed by an npc.   So both lose something depending on their choices.

There will be plenty of OW PvP.   The Devs are trying to implement a fair and as balanced game as they can to encourage both PvP and PvE players.
   
If you don't like the punishment then don't do the crime.
If you don't like the corruption and it's consequences then go pick on someone who is flagged.  Simple.  

ArchivedUser

At first when I heard about a system was oh no just like karma in BDO, rip the game. Than I was told that if the player doesnt fight back he will part of his gear and loot and will suffer from experience penalty, I thought wow it is a good system and people would probably fight back. And than I decided to get more information...
 Player who dont want to fight will lose a bit of exp and a bit of resources , but if you kill him you are must to suffer for lifetime corruption ? I am sorry what? 
So what does the penalties for green if he dies from pk : a bit exp loss and a bit of resources .
PK penalties: corruption, BH will see you on the map, a chance to lose your gear, exp loss,green can kill you and you cant kill them or you will get even more corruption, stat degradation. MMMaximum carebear.

What I offer,if you kill an other player he will lose part of his money, part of his loot, piece of his equipment.
If you kill green he lose 100% of his money, 50% of his inventory , 2-3 parts of equipment.  I want to play Ashes of Creation , not Adventures in Carealot .
And give to people to choose what would they like to play. PvE and PvP servers... That is always the best option. 

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

At first when I heard about a system was oh no just like karma in BDO, rip the game. Than I was told that if the player doesnt fight back he will part of his gear and loot and will suffer from experience penalty, I thought wow it is a good system and people would probably fight back. And than I decided to get more information...
 Player who dont want to fight will lose a bit of exp and a bit of resources , but if you kill him you are must to suffer for lifetime corruption ? I am sorry what? 
So what does the penalties for green if he dies from pk : a bit exp loss and a bit of resources .
PK penalties: corruption, BH will see you on the map, a chance to lose your gear, exp loss,green can kill you and you cant kill them or you will get even more corruption, stat degradation. MMMaximum carebear.

What I offer,if you kill an other player he will lose part of his money, part of his loot, piece of his equipment.
If you kill green he lose 100% of his money, 50% of his inventory , 2-3 parts of equipment.  I want to play Ashes of Creation , not Adventures in Carealot .
And give to people to choose what would they like to play. PvE and PvP servers... That is always the best option. 

I think you have the system a bit wrong. Think of it as an opt-in system. When you turn purple, you are now opt-ed in for PvP in open world and purple players can then fight freely. However, if you're purple and kill a green is when I believe the system gets murky.

CylverRayne said:

The corruption system is supposed to be a deterrent to ambushing non-flagged players.   Those same players that get ganked also lose experience if when they die as they would if killed by an npc.   So both lose something depending on their choices.

There will be plenty of OW PvP.   The Devs are trying to implement a fair and as balanced game as they can to encourage both PvP and PvE players.
   
If you don't like the punishment then don't do the crime.
If you don't like the corruption and it's consequences then go pick on someone who is flagged.  Simple.  

 I don't think it's about punishment versus crime. I think it creates an unfair disadvantage for the PKer - why should his stats go down AND his gear drop if he commits the crime. Shouldn't they be able to defend themselves too for playing the game how they want to play it? I understand why the system is there but think that the bounty hunter system should be enough to entice other players to protect other green players from the corrupt players.

Ferryman said:

Well its devs goal to protect players who dont want to participate to open world PvP. So the mechanic is there for PvE oriented players. So idea is that if you see that your target wont fight back and tries to escape, you have choise to let that guy go or try to kill anyway and take the consequences.

That does not meen there would not been PvP at all, because corrupted players can attack each others and combatant players freely. Even these rules might feel harsh, but those can always be changed after testing. Also its good to start with more punishing rules and come down from there if needed.

I also see that these rules can always play around. People will always find ways to do that. If i would want kill non-combatant players, i could consider to go with small group and with gear i can easily afford to loose. I could also bait bountyhunters to get ambushed.. i would ofc not do that, because i am a model citizen..  

See, I'm not concerned so much as the labels and the fact that worse things happen the further corrupt you get - I'm upset the fact that because someone wants to PK they lose stats and therefore lose the ability to defend themselves properly. By taking away their stats, they don't represent the same criminal that committed the crime.

ArchivedUser

Tirithel said:

Eleanc said:

At first when I heard about a system was oh no just like karma in BDO, rip the game. Than I was told that if the player doesnt fight back he will part of his gear and loot and will suffer from experience penalty, I thought wow it is a good system and people would probably fight back. And than I decided to get more information...
 Player who dont want to fight will lose a bit of exp and a bit of resources , but if you kill him you are must to suffer for lifetime corruption ? I am sorry what? 
So what does the penalties for green if he dies from pk : a bit exp loss and a bit of resources .
PK penalties: corruption, BH will see you on the map, a chance to lose your gear, exp loss,green can kill you and you cant kill them or you will get even more corruption, stat degradation. MMMaximum carebear.

What I offer,if you kill an other player he will lose part of his money, part of his loot, piece of his equipment.
If you kill green he lose 100% of his money, 50% of his inventory , 2-3 parts of equipment.  I want to play Ashes of Creation , not Adventures in Carealot .
And give to people to choose what would they like to play. PvE and PvP servers... That is always the best option. 

I think you have the system a bit wrong. Think of it as an opt-in system. When you turn purple, you are now opt-ed in for PvP in open world and purple players can then fight freely. However, if you're purple and kill a green is when I believe the system gets murky.

CylverRayne said:

The corruption system is supposed to be a deterrent to ambushing non-flagged players.   Those same players that get ganked also lose experience if when they die as they would if killed by an npc.   So both lose something depending on their choices.

There will be plenty of OW PvP.   The Devs are trying to implement a fair and as balanced game as they can to encourage both PvP and PvE players.
   
If you don't like the punishment then don't do the crime.
If you don't like the corruption and it's consequences then go pick on someone who is flagged.  Simple.  

 I don't think it's about punishment versus crime. I think it creates an unfair disadvantage for the PKer - why should his stats go down AND his gear drop if he commits the crime. Shouldn't they be able to defend themselves too for playing the game how they want to play it? I understand why the system is there but think that the bounty hunter system should be enough to entice other players to protect other green players from the corrupt players.

Ferryman said:

Well its devs goal to protect players who dont want to participate to open world PvP. So the mechanic is there for PvE oriented players. So idea is that if you see that your target wont fight back and tries to escape, you have choise to let that guy go or try to kill anyway and take the consequences.

That does not meen there would not been PvP at all, because corrupted players can attack each others and combatant players freely. Even these rules might feel harsh, but those can always be changed after testing. Also its good to start with more punishing rules and come down from there if needed.

I also see that these rules can always play around. People will always find ways to do that. If i would want kill non-combatant players, i could consider to go with small group and with gear i can easily afford to loose. I could also bait bountyhunters to get ambushed.. i would ofc not do that, because i am a model citizen..  

See, I'm not concerned so much as the labels and the fact that worse things happen the further corrupt you get - I'm upset the fact that because someone wants to PK they lose stats and therefore lose the ability to defend themselves properly. By taking away their stats, they don't represent the same criminal that committed the crime.

I'd be fine with stat degrade (As long as there is a way to regain good status even if not easy) but losing gear/droping gear is a bit extreme, and we have seen how it made BDO as example without any reds, and that pve players have all the power in all situations/grind spots. If you continually kill green players, then your stats should continually drop making it easier to take you down, and a handicap, you should also lose extensive XP loss on death, but gear? I guess it depends on how long it takes to get the gear you risk to lose.

ArchivedUser

Also could be a reward for killing red players like bounty.
I think its ideal to reward people, without downgrading those who want to pvp like myself. Both sides can be rewarded and no one will have issue, as long as the downfall to enjoying pvp is enjoyable, and not griefing to a green player. Mostly being a purple player is where its at though, no risks of being corrupt, and still pvp. Just have to ignore green.

ArchivedUser

I totally agree.

ArchivedUser

The devs certainly have their vision, and I imagine they will tweak it as time moves forward.

I don't know that this topic has necessarily been overdone, maybe it has, but i think it is important for us as potential players to analyze everything that could go wrong now, so if we come up with the something the devs havn't considered yet, they can work it into their blueprint.

So yes, this may be a common topic, but it is also one of the most important ones for the devs to get right.   I don't think we should discourage people from trying to rethink it.

As to the OP, If you do have concerns about the pvp system, maybe post a question in the livestream thread?

ArchivedUser

Wraeven said:

The devs certainly have their vision, and I imagine they will tweak it as time moves forward.

I don't know that this topic has necessarily been overdone, maybe it has, but i think it is important for us as potential players to analyze everything that could go wrong now, so if we come up with the something the devs havn't considered yet, they can work it into their blueprint.

So yes, this may be a common topic, but it is also one of the most important ones for the devs to get right.   I don't think we should discourage people from trying to rethink it.

As to the OP, If you do have concerns about the pvp system, maybe post a question in the livestream thread?

I always do It's RNG if it gets answered though. I'm not concerned based on my knowledge of the game - I have a pretty good understanding of their current vision of the PK system and what they intend it to do. My only gripe is for the "corrupt" player to be able to properly protect themselves given that there will be players actively hunting them for their crimes.

ArchivedUser

That's a little funny, because my concern would be more along the lines of the 'corrupt' player being able to abuse mechanics to get off scot-free

But i have faith that the devs will balance it out. 

ArchivedUser

PVP against players who want to PvP.  There will be plenty.

You will still be able to occasionally PK green players but do it too much and your soul rots your body from the inside out weakening you and making you an easier mark.

At least try it out and see how it works before saying that it won't work.  Alpha and Beta testing will likely allow for a system that is balanced to the tolerances envisioned by the Devs and palatable to the ENTIRE community.

ArchivedUser

Crymoar said:

PVP against players who want to PvP.  There will be plenty.

You will still be able to occasionally PK green players but do it too much and your soul rots your body from the inside out weakening you and making you an easier mark.

At least try it out and see how it works before saying that it won't work.  Alpha and Beta testing will likely allow for a system that is balanced to the tolerances envisioned by the Devs and palatable to the ENTIRE community.

Thats like scripted pvp, and not everyone wants to play a game where your protected because I lose shit to pvp.
 Example, Black Desert, severe punishment for pvp, not worth doing, result, no one does it unless they like to punish themselves.
Example 2. Archeage, result was basically cash shopped away, no punishment unless intended to do so, jail was fun for both victum and killer. (Acceptable approach) long term result is pvp was too frequent, and people felt no need to do it until monetary gain (IE 
Example 3. (Ideal example) Age of Conan had no penalty to pvp, and rewarded it. People had the option to pvp anyone they saw, and as a result trended not to based off the community, small factions of kill any and everyones formed and the larger pvp guilds shunned them and hunted them down for killing their members. 

End result is different systems will breed different responses to pvp and systems. If there is no reason for pvp, there wont be any typically, if there is harsh penalty to initiate pvp, again wont be pvp. 

ArchivedUser

Cute idea

ArchivedUser

If PKs are not ready to take the punishment of ganking green non-combatant players, then they dont should do that. That is the whole point of the system. It does not meen you cant PK at all, it just meens you are restricted to gank people who wants to avoid OW PvP fights. There is still those players who are ready to fight back or who are corrupted already and those players can freely fight with each other. If the corruption punishment would be lower then it would not help green players. Devs have said they are not going make AoC a ganking game, because that harms the game more than it gives. 

I play atm game called Albion Online and those who dont know its hardcore OW PvP game with full loot system. That is the core of Albion and it will not change from that. Now Ashens core is different, its also PvE player friendly and the devs intend is to protect that playerbase from ganking. Because ganking is only fun from one point of view. They focus on PvP, but in elsewhere. Now too many gankers are trying to change this game to favor their playstyle without realizing it will hurt other players gaming experience. Other players who will be bigger audiance than gankers who just want to get easy kills without serious penalty. I also gank sometimes, but within the ruleset i have got, so zero symphaty from me.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

If PKs are not ready to take the punishment of ganking green non-combatant players, then they dont should do that.
I play atm game called Albion Online and those who dont know its hardcore OW PvP 

Yea , with safe zones. And 99% the enemy will run from you. The game where your opponent can run from you easily and the fight is 2 active skills -  10/10 pvp.

And the player protection in AoC for now will lead for the griefing of pk players. No one will attack the PK back, because the penalties are not so bad , and then return to kill a corrupted player , or if the PK wont kill them, they would write "HAHA PK SCAM WOT WOULD U DO TO ME ?! olololo" or "there are arenas for PK scam go fight there, let the 'normal' players (carebears) to enjoy the game".
PvP for the spot or dungeon will lead for karmabombing as well. 
WE NEED TO PVE AND PVP SERVERS.

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

CylverRayne said:

I've said many times over, It's PvP players who cry the most.  

Please stop flame. We are having a discussion here , your right is to give your opinion as a PvE player.

Eleanc said:

At first when I heard about a system was oh no just like karma in BDO, rip the game. Than I was told that if the player doesnt fight back he will part of his gear and loot and will suffer from experience penalty, I thought wow it is a good system and people would probably fight back. And than I decided to get more information...
 Player who dont want to fight will lose a bit of exp and a bit of resources , but if you kill him you are must to suffer for lifetime corruption ? I am sorry what? 
So what does the penalties for green if he dies from pk : a bit exp loss and a bit of resources .
PK penalties: corruption, BH will see you on the map, a chance to lose your gear, exp loss,green can kill you and you cant kill them or you will get even more corruption, stat degradation. MMMaximum carebear.

What I offer,if you kill an other player he will lose part of his money, part of his loot, piece of his equipment.
If you kill green he lose 100% of his money, 50% of his inventory , 2-3 parts of equipment.  I want to play Ashes of Creation , not Adventures in Carealot .
And give to people to choose what would they like to play. PvE and PvP servers... That is always the best option. 

"We are trying to discuss here.." Omg you made me laugh. I appreciate @Tirithel 's original post, its constructive, even i disagree. But yuor vision of conversation is totally different. You just want to turn Ashes to hardcore PvP game what it clearly is not. And if your suggestion is that green players should drop 100% of their money, do you realize that you cannot be taken seriously with your thoughts.

And what it comes to definition of hardcore PvP player (what you clearly think you are) it fyi meens gaming which goals for competitive PvP fights and in those players eyes gankers who wants just easy kills are carebears themselfs and not better than PvE oriented players. 

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

CylverRayne said:

I've said many times over, It's PvP players who cry the most.  

Please stop flame. We are having a discussion here , your right is to give your opinion as a PvE player.

I am a PvP as well as a PvE player which I have stated in other similar threads.   As metioned above, take it to the live thread. This subject has been hashed over and over.
This is a game for all not just one set of players.  You have many choices to out right kill others then green players. If you chose green players then you chose the consequences also.  Let alpha and beta help sort it out with the devs   Live with it or don't.  Play or not.  Your choice.  Life is all about choice. 
And yes, PVP players DO cry the most.   

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

Eleanc said:

CylverRayne said:

I've said many times over, It's PvP players who cry the most.  

Please stop flame. We are having a discussion here , your right is to give your opinion as a PvE player.

I am a PvP as well as a PvE player which I have stated in other similar threads.   As metioned above, take it to the live thread. This subject has been hashed over and over.
This is a game for all not just one set of players.  You have many choices to out right kill others then green players. If you chose green players then you chose the consequences also.  Let alpha and beta help sort it out with the devs   Live with it or don't.  Play or not.  Your choice.  Life is all about choice. 
And yes, PVP players DO cry the most.   

I do agree with @CylverRayne here for the most part. There SHOULD be penalties for killing players that don't wish to participate in PVP at all. I just believe that either the stat degradation or the gear dropping should be rethought. I think that it's unfair and unnecessary if the proper "rewards" for hunting corrupt players are implemented. The devs already stated that the game shouldn't just be a murder box.

UnknownSystemError said:

Everytime I see this issue brought up by the "hardcore pvp brahs" I just think of this clip and get a chuckle. You figure one day them pissing into the wind they will figure out why they get wet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEyBOKo6djQ

Please stop derailing my thread.

ArchivedUser

Annatar said:

Tirithel said:

 I don't think it's about punishment versus crime. I think it creates an unfair disadvantage for the PKer - why should his stats go down AND his gear drop if he commits the crime. Shouldn't they be able to defend themselves too for playing the game how they want to play it? I understand why the system is there but think that the bounty hunter system should be enough to entice other players to protect other green players from the corrupt players.

It is all about choices.

If you attack an green player you are going to know pretty quickly whether or not they are going to retaliate or not.  If they retaliate, they get flagged purple and all is good and you can beat the crap out of each other.  If they don't, and stay green, you have a choice to make; kill them and get corruption, or disengage.

If people want 'meaningful' PvP then they will engage other purple players or engage in whatever other PvP orientated events going on in the game (sieges, arenas etc.), but going after the 'greens' will come with the risk of corruption.  I imagine most times you will get lucky and the green you are attacking will retaliate, but I am pretty sure that there will be some players out there that will live the life of permanent-green (they are playing the trade-skill/economics side of the game), and it comes down to the choice of whether or not killing the green player is worth the corruption hit.

Yeah, you're right, but for a player that chooses to be a bad guy, I don't understand why the consequences have to be so steep - it's one thing to make them lose stats to make it easier to kill them, it's one thing to make them have the chance to drop their gear, but I think it's unfair to make it easier to kill them and have the chance to drop gear. 

I'm just concerned that they will take away the corrupt player's fighting chance to protect them from dropping their gear - especially considering people will already be incentivized to hunt these players.

ArchivedUser

Tirithel said:

Please stop derailing my thread.

No one is trying to derail your thread.  Intrepid has it's core fundamentals which basically have drawn most people to it. Making game play for ALL  viable is one of their goals.

 No one is trying or demanding to take PvP away or make it any less.  It's about choice.  How much are you and your guild mates willing to sacrifice to gank or kill green players?  Like in RL  pay for murder if caught.   How much experience does a green player want to lose by not fighting back?  It's a 2 way street.   

Again testing their corruption system in Alpha and Beta is essential.   

ArchivedUser

Annatar said:

Tirithel said:

Annatar said:

Tirithel said:

 I don't think it's about punishment versus crime. I think it creates an unfair disadvantage for the PKer - why should his stats go down AND his gear drop if he commits the crime. Shouldn't they be able to defend themselves too for playing the game how they want to play it? I understand why the system is there but think that the bounty hunter system should be enough to entice other players to protect other green players from the corrupt players.

It is all about choices.

If you attack an green player you are going to know pretty quickly whether or not they are going to retaliate or not.  If they retaliate, they get flagged purple and all is good and you can beat the crap out of each other.  If they don't, and stay green, you have a choice to make; kill them and get corruption, or disengage.

If people want 'meaningful' PvP then they will engage other purple players or engage in whatever other PvP orientated events going on in the game (sieges, arenas etc.), but going after the 'greens' will come with the risk of corruption.  I imagine most times you will get lucky and the green you are attacking will retaliate, but I am pretty sure that there will be some players out there that will live the life of permanent-green (they are playing the trade-skill/economics side of the game), and it comes down to the choice of whether or not killing the green player is worth the corruption hit.

Yeah, you're right, but for a player that chooses to be a bad guy, I don't understand why the consequences have to be so steep - it's one thing to make them lose stats to make it easier to kill them, it's one thing to make them have the chance to drop their gear, but I think it's unfair to make it easier to kill them and have the chance to drop gear. 

I'm just concerned that they will take away the corrupt player's fighting chance to protect them from dropping their gear - especially considering people will already be incentivized to hunt these players.

Choose to be a different type of 'bad guy'.  Find a guild of like minded people and make life hell for another guild(s).  Find their 'node-of-operation' and become the bane of their existence.  Cripple their caravans, ambush their small flagged groups with a much larger one. etc. (And if a smaller group won't 'flag-up' follow them, if they are trying to farm mobs/harvest remove the mobs/nodes from play.  Hamper them until they flag purple or run back home). All safe ways of being 'bad' without risking corruption.

If you are just choosing to target solo greens to be 'bad', then I would say suck up the corruption, because you are more looking for an easy kill.  The developers appear to be encouraging something bigger than that.  They want conflict over territory.  They want conflict over the supply and transportation of resources between nodes/settlements.  They are trying to encourage 'meaningful conflict', and shanking some poor green scrub who is harvesting some corn is not really 'meaningful' and sort of deserves the corruption hit.

Imho, you shouldn't have to go out of your way to harass them out of doing something you don't want them to do - you should be able to kill them for reason. The Corruption system is in place so that they will get punished for having killed the players anyway - gear dropping OR stat degradation. 

i.e. in BDO if you choose to not participate in PVP, but grind in a heavily contested spot, you're bound to get killed and are pretty much asking for it. These players inversely abuse the karma system of the game - sure the PKer could not kill the PVE-er, but the PVE-er should be aware that they are doing something they shouldn't (Karma Griefing).

ArchivedUser

This isnt about being nice  to PKers. The corruption system is in place to prevent it.
'Genuine' PvP is totally unnaffected in any way by the corruption system.
Only those people out to murder the weak and inferior suffer corruption.
Those into genuine PvP combat on a level footing with others that want to fight, have absolutely 0 restriction from doing so and 0 penalty.

So with that in mind I will now suggest the corruption system does not go far enough.
Players attacking others without response and outside of a legitimate PvP scenario clearly arent conducting PvP to have a fair and even fight. They just want to slaughter as many people as possible. Which isnt what the game is about...and has been stated many times. THIS IS NOT A MURDERBOX!

1. So my suggestion is anyone who hits a player 3 times in succession without response gets corruption.
If the attacker hasnt realised the other player doesnt want to fight by then, they deserve the punishment.
2. Not only does corruption stack...it squares. Every murder doubles the corruption score and penalty.

ArchivedUser

Lets figure up something. PvX is actually more PvE than PvP. Why? Lets see. Old school mmorpg always had 2 different servers: PvP and PvE. Carebears always played on the PvE server , where they could grind safely , grow up horses and chop the trees without being killed. The only PvP they had on the  servers was arenas or duels, where both players had come to agreement for PvP .

Lets mark it again PvE servers has arenas and duels , the world is one big safezone.
PvX has duels and arenas + open world PvP with agreements from both side or lose your xp + equipment part. The PvX is the same as PvE but with a bit strange version of duels.

And now you will probably reply to say that we have such PvP events that effect the real world as such as fights to destroy enemy city and caravans. Yep there are some pvp arenas, do they effect something for other players ? Nope. Battles for a siege ? Why should I care what guild has captured the city? Caravans? Another PvP arena, but a bit more unique and needs a test. But I dont really understand it, you make caravans with full loot system (or we will be really disappointed) , but no full loot in open world. 

Even if the city is destroyed by other players ( lets be honest it would be near impossible to do so) you can still build your own house and dont give a thing.
So even if the devs say "You cannot avoid it the PvP" you can actually. 
That why PvX is PvE.  Two servers PvE and PvP are the best .
It is not HARDCORE it is just a PvP server. Idk why people complain for it. They dont know what is the real hardcore,open world PvP is not griefing it is fighting. PvX is for carebears and casuals.

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

  Like in RL  pay for murder if caught.   

I LOL'D. Lets take real life into the game now. If so , in the real life you dont get any penalties until you get caught , as well people can thief from other people or even participate in wars. And since you started with the real life, there are no safe zones.  If some one get murdered there are real people (called police) who search the murder.
We have bounty hunters. If someone wants to punish a player he may pay gold for bounty hunter to slay him. Freedom. We have city guards if someone is on black list they can kill him. It bring so much fun and possibilities to the game. Maybe even enough to add reputation , so the pk would have their own little villages to hide, and they could not enter the city so easily (only at night jumping from one roof to another).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSnFX4ddaw

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

Ferryman said:

If PKs are not ready to take the punishment of ganking green non-combatant players, then they dont should do that.
I play atm game called Albion Online and those who dont know its hardcore OW PvP 

Yea , with safe zones. And 99% the enemy will run from you. The game where your opponent can run from you easily and the fight is 2 active skills -  10/10 pvp.

And the player protection in AoC for now will lead for the griefing of pk players. No one will attack the PK back, because the penalties are not so bad , and then return to kill a corrupted player , or if the PK wont kill them, they would write "HAHA PK SCAM WOT WOULD U DO TO ME ?! olololo" or "there are arenas for PK scam go fight there, let the 'normal' players (carebears) to enjoy the game".
PvP for the spot or dungeon will lead for karmabombing as well. 
WE NEED TO PVE AND PVP SERVERS.

You dont clearly know much about Albion. About 70% of the whole landmass is under full loot rules and that should be enough for every hardcore PvP fans. "99% people running away" is also false even it is true that many players will escape. That is because lots of people who are gathering are not suppose to fight back with gathering gear. Also ow fights are usually unfair fights why people escapes, still 99% is way too much to say. But Albion is actually good example how bad ganking generally works in games. And there is 6 abilities + 1 potion slots in hotbar used to combat situation and not 2. That seven is about same what AoC would have so maybe you should present facts and not imaginary numbers from your head if you want your post to taken seriously. 

ArchivedUser

Eleanc  It seems you don't understand the basic concepts of Ashes or PvX.  If all you are interested in is PvP and killing other players without penalty under all circumstances and full loot of their corpses why are you here?    Maybe a shooter type game is more to your play style.   Planetside or Destiny sounds about right.   

You should go listen to and read about all the Devs have planned for Ashes that have drawn the masses here. Instead of trying to change what they deem is ideal, meaningful suggestions to improvements that benefit all would be more helpful.

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

Eleanc  It seems you don't understand the basic concepts of Ashes or PvX.  If all you are interested in is PvP and killing other players without penalty under all circumstances and full loot of their corpses why are you here?    Maybe a shooter type game is more to your play style.   Planetside or Destiny sounds about right.   

I am not interested in someones loot, I am interested in having a good fight with  in the open world , I would never kill a new player it is not interesting , in additon l  am not interested in griefing people( spawn camping , hunting 1 player for nothing and that sorts of thing)   And what I actually want to see is AoC is a large living world that built by players, with much freedom in it. I dont want to play a game where you get permabanned for killing a player.   I want to get attacked by player , suddenly without warning. If I die it is my problem , I wasnt good enough. If I take this guy out I get fun . If I have a good fight with him , I have fun. If I die from him I will be prepared for the next time. And what about organized pvp arenas? You just thing "how do I get more kills to win" it is boring. But there are carebears who think that they are the gods of the game and play as if they were playing in skyrim (but x10 more casual ) , they are the only player in the game. Others  are just npc.

Is this game PvP-Oriented or Pve-Trolling-Oriented?

ArchivedUser

I'm just concerned that I wouldn't be able to kill someone that is in my spot in fear of losing my gear and stats. I'm not asking to be able to kill new players, I'm asking to be able to kill players that are annoying to deal with without fear of stat/gear loss.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

You dont clearly know much about Albion. About 70% of the whole landmass is under full loot rules and that should be enough for every hardcore PvP fans. "99% people running away" is also false even it is true that many players will escape. That is because lots of people who are gathering are not suppose to fight back with gathering gear. Also ow fights are usually unfair fights why people escapes, still 99% is way too much to say. But Albion is actually good example how bad ganking generally works in games. And there is 6 abilities + 1 potion slots in hotbar used to combat situation and not 2. That seven is about same what AoC would have so maybe you should present facts and not imaginary numbers from your head if you want your post to taken seriously. 

Fact is a fact people are escaping , most of the people stay in safe zones with no full lot. Those 6 skills are buffs.  And only 2 active skills. But we are here to discuss AoC not Albion. Please dont go off topic thank you.

ArchivedUser

Tirithel said:

I'm just concerned that I wouldn't be able to kill someone that is in my spot in fear of losing my gear and stats. I'm not asking to be able to kill new players, I'm asking to be able to kill players that are annoying to deal with without fear of stat/gear loss.

Yep , there are many trolls and griefers much worse than the PK. Once they understand that you cant kill them until they agree to, you will get griefed in many ways that had places in bdo.