Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I think any death should come with xp loss and some material drops. I do agree that if purple players would not lose xp that might encourage more "greens" to engage, but I don't know if it would stop or deter PK more than the current system.
I don't think PvP is punishing because if two players engage in the act of killing each others avatars the loser experiences a death penalty. That might or might not be equivalent to a PvE death.
I consider PK versus a "green" (PKvG?) punishing because both parties will lose more than a PvP death or PvE death.
I guess I am considering PvE/PvP death the base line.
Then what is it? PvF - Player versus Furniture?
That was my intention to be pretty much the same as current. I think its pretty good the way it is but what i was proposing was to:
-Remove the exp debt gained while dying to PvP combat as a purple
-Add a stat debuff (health, damage, mana, gathering speed/quantity/quality, etc.) to any character with exp debt regardless of combat state (even if you die to PvE this would apply).
By adding those additional effects people will be motivated to remain in a purple state rather than green or red. As it stands the only downside of staying green is you drop a little more resources and take 2x exp debt, which lets face it at level cap that doesn't matter. It was already stated it wouldn't delevel you.
By adding a stat debuff (Minor) to the exp debt if you die while green until you clear the debt (2x a pve death exp debt) you will remain in the debuffed (Minor) state until its cleared. This would also apply to anyone who dies as Corrupt starting at twice the rate of a green death. So while you are corrupt you get the stacking stat debuff (Major) and will get a lesser stat debuff (Minor) after being killed as corrupt until your exp debt is cleared.
Which is why I have barely made comment in these threads that have raged for weeks. Steven has an idea of what pvp will be in his game, there will be a system put in place to bring his vision to life. Then we the community can provide constructive feedback on said system, getting into heated forum debates over the pvp flagging system when we truly don't know how it works to my way of thinking is kind of pointless.
But then I guess most of the post on this forum are pointless speculation at this point, but then what else is there to do when the game is in development.
I would not consider attacking and then killing an avatar that does not fight back PvP, since you're not "versus" a player, as it's just an avatar. PvA - player versus avatar? I really don't care about what it would be called, but PvF (player versus furniture) would be the equivalent I guess.
I thought PvP was suppose to be better and more challenging than PvE for those who prefer PvP. Fighting AI is different than fighting a real person. Real people are more random and adaptable and so forth.
I don't think you believe that attacking something that doesn't fight back is challenging, I think your skill set at these games is probably better than that (although I have never seen you play) based on your proclaimed enjoyment of PvP.
What's the risk of attacking someone who doesn't fight back? Corruption. Because an avatar just standing there while being attacked isn't going to cause your avatar any HP damage or be able to loot you when they die.
But, I like the way the system is heading as it has currently been described and would enjoy some iteration of this.
I have not, imo, read any comment in any of the conversations involving corruption for PK that convinces me it's not a good thing. To me, PK versus a non-combatant is not PvP.
I know others don't want corruption, some want it toned down, and I do understand open world PvP is an enjoyable playstyle, just not mine. I am going against my usual deterrents with Ashes, I am trying to adapt to the game as opposed to wishing the game would adapt to me.
I think killing greens is suppose to be in the game for meaningful conflict moments. For example; when someone decides that gaining corruption to safeguard or otherwise act in their characters best interest is the only way out.
I don't think corruption was added just to punish for no reason. Perhaps it is seen as murder and in Verra murder brings rot and corruption. IDK, but the more these threads roll on the more I really want to know. Yes, I know it could be years before we have a final answer, just part of the hype train for me. Also, I like the back-n-forth of the more civilized aspect of this topic, even if some/most of it is theory-craft.
This basically means that however long combatant state lasts, it matters for flagging for healing or buffing random people. You don't have to see them fighting or attacking, even if they flee after and are purple, healing them counts as healing a combatant, and thus makes you one.
"So this idea of being able to choose whether you are green or purple at any given time may be moot. You might be default green, unless in combat. Even PVE may turn you "purple", since the next comment was that buffing or healing someone in PVE would also change your "state" based on their "hate table.""
It would make the enemy that is attacking the healed/buffed character add you to their hate table, and if you did a sufficient degree of healing/buffing, you'll draw the enemy on to you (and temporarily off the previous target). It won't flag you as combatant if they weren't. And normal pve won't flag you, or them, as combatant.
So no, you won't turn purple just from fighting AI mobs, you won't turn purple just from healing someone fighting AI mobs, unless they were purple (or red) to start with. That was pretty clear to me.
That safety will not exist in Ashes by default. Compared to everyday life in society, there is no security guarantee unless the node you live in has an active group of PVPers who will come save you when PVPers from another node attempt to attack you. If the friendly PVPers of your node are so powerful that they dissuade others from invading your node in the future, then they've achieved deterrence against future threats and you'll get to enjoy your solo life. Read Leviathan by Hobbes, or War Making and State Making as Organized Crime by Charles Tilly to understand more.
Living in the world of Ashes will be no different from the state of nature described by Hobbes, and you need to discard what you perceive to be "normal" when it comes to understanding what this game will be about.
It was mainly pointing out the cold reality that like it or not, players will come under unprovoked aggression in the game, regardless of whether the corruption mechanic will come into play. Like it or not, that's part of human nature and it will manifest itself in a MMO whenever the opportunity presents itself.
I don't care what your personal opinions are, or what you're currently discussing. You presented your opinion as fact and I corrected you. That's all I came here to do.
I understand it dosen't feel great to be corrected but there's no need to get defensive, we're all friends here.
So... Why are you playing MMO's at all? You sound incredibly introverted and easily annoyed, which doesn't sound like a good fit for an MMO in the first place. I can understand your issues with EVE, that game is a mess, but attempting to dumb-down AoC because you don't believe "PK" is justifiable at all (this is an assumption from this and many other posts you've made.) unless done in a duel format is utter bullshit. If you don't like the idea of being attacked or "PK'ed", you shouldn't play this game, and remember it's still marketed as an open-world PvP game so expect it to happen. Overall I think far too many people here see any form of PvP outside of Sieges, Dueling or Guild Wars etc, as game breaking because it ruins their luxury time. I don't want PvP "griefing" to be incentivized at all, but I think the corruption system as it stands isn't going to do anything more than dumb the game down/burn the playerbase.
What are you talking about? you haven't even addressed my point, not once.
I get you're probably fuming but you're arguing for the sake of arguing, just chill out.
The corruption mechanic obviously has an impact on creating a safe environment for Ashes.
I don't care what your opinions are but I do care if you present them as fact, but thanks for nitpicking. You must be running out of things to argue about.
All I'm saying is you assumed to know what the world in Ashes is going to be like without providing any evidence to support your claims. You're just guessing and now you're getting mad someone called you out on it, It's either that or you get off on arguing.
Now here's my challenge to you, friend, instead of going through and magically finding something wrong with every word I say can you respond to the following only.
Do you think you were misrepresenting your opinion as fact?
Edit: If for some reason you want to keep this going I suggest we do it over DM, this is getting off topic.
Open World PvP - you in fact can attack anyone almost anywhere as far as I know.
Taking corruption for killing a player that doesn't fight back does not some how make this a non-Open World PvP. It's a deterrent, a deterrent only prevents you from doing something if you are deterred by it. Not everyone will be, so why relax the potential system to allow them more access?
Since the deterrent seems to be deterring players prior to release, I think it is working well. I am under the impression, by reading threads similar to this, many games already exist that are non-deterred Open World PvP. Why should this be another?
You was comparing Ashes to every day life on Earth, and he gave you a valid reason why you are wrong.
He does not assume anything. It is known that Verra is a world abandoned by thousands of years, world filled with chaos and corruption and no organized civilization.
You are going back through portal as PIONEER to a dangerous world full of unexpected. So you can definitely not compare it to Earth, and going to job.
You received a completely accurate response.
Solo play style is not opposed to pvp. You can solo play AND PvP in same time.
I think you have me confused with someone else, I wasn't comparing anything. That was another person.
Ah yes I see now, another person compared Ashes to life on Earth.
Alright, but he was still correct in claiming that you can not compare life on Earth with life on Verra.
This is one example, we just don't know what kinda of safety towns and the corruption system can actually provide people yet.
"That safety will not exist in Ashes by default."
Edit: It wasn't a big deal, I'm not sure why it had to be blown out of proportion.
Pooka's 1 gold is worth more than your one gold.
For the simple-minded, a tl;dr of my post.-
A large portion of the community believe that the people getting annoyed at the Corruption system are simply looking for ways to get free kills on other players, when that's incorrect 99% of the time.
Well, given the penalty for PKing, I assume I won't be killed 5 times just walking to the forest, unless my guild declared war on another guild who just happens to hang out in this area. You're free to always move in posses of 10 people, I'm going to fish and do my solo quests without a huge escort.
I can group when I want to do a dungeon, or a raid, or a gathering party and lots of gatherers I know happen to be on. But not every time I login and go to a city or a forest to do something soloable.
Maybe you're one of those who logs in, does the dungeon/raid, stays on for roughly 1 hour, then logs out. But I'm the kind who logs in, does 12 hours worth of stuff with random pauses where I want them (eat, bathroom breaks, naps - on my schedule), with varying content, but most of it soloable. And in the guilds I have been in, there wasn't others who did what I did (gather and craft intensively), and not much people outside peak times.
Gathering might be more risky in this game, for valuable resources, but I don't expect to never be able to gather because trolls hang around those spots 24/7, just waiting to PK. I think corruption would deter them most of the time (and yes, I won't fight back when solo, I will run or die). Not everything is super rare and thus worth PKing for.
Except most games are not solo-friendly. They're get-a-pick-up-group-from-party-finder friendly. But that's not solo. In FF14 I can walk around and do solo quests all I want, but if I want bis gear, I must raid. Or wait a couple months later towards the end of the patch cycle when its accessible through easy dungeons tokens, still not solo. Craft makes intermediary gear and costs an arm and a leg, and has RNG.
A good point of Ashes is that crafting is supposed to be on par with bis drops, so I won't have to do 25 or 40-man raids just to be able to get a bis piece. It might take work and time and (in-game) money, and finding buyers or sellers, but that's fine with me.