PK'ers, Killing a PK'er and Drops on Death.

ArchivedUser

@Vortigern Sorry if I offended you, I didn't have any context so you'll have to forgive me for not understanding why you were making fun of someone. 

I was trying to be polite about it, guess it didn't come across that way  soz.

Trust me I'm a lot nicer when people can hear my tone of voice

Bit harsh to label someone insufferable over five comments All I was trying to do was get my point across. 

ArchivedUser

@Elder I wouldn't stress it much. Text is a poor method of communication especially for a topic that both sides are passionate about. 

ArchivedUser

@Vortigern posted " People that share your mindset are the same ones that ruin MMO's, it boils down to "If they don't agree with (insert "deterrent" mechanic), they must be a griefer, troll or big bad PK'er!" which is absolutely **** and 99% of the time incorrect. And of course Ashes wasn't marketed solely as an Open World PvP MMO but what do you think they tag onto the name, and, what do you think people are most likely to be attracted to in the MMO market?  Definitely not "Open World Crafting MMO" or "Open World Horse Taming MMO", they sound like Farm Simulator clones."

Wow, so I never said anything about being a "griefer" or "troll" and I don't know what you mean by "big bad PKer" unless you are referring to some fictional boogeyman. And you're right, that sounds potentially ****, but I wasn't the one that said it either

As far as "ruining" MMO's. Since I am not making them, have not been asked for direct input, or otherwise personally funded one all by myself, it seems like developers/publishers catering to the crowd that will make them the most money would be at fault. Maybe that's where they have gone wrong, maybe Ashes not doing that will help them.

I also like how you intentionally tried to make this sound like a one horse pony MMO. I suppose you would like "Open World PvP MMO" only. That's great, and I hope that game is made for you and the others that would prefer it. Not everyone does. That doesn't ruin games, it just gives us diverse gaming options  

Enjoy the diversity and play something different once!
That's what all the non-PvP craft/gather types are going to try.

Great post by the way.

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

@Vortigern posted " People that share your mindset are the same ones that ruin MMO's, it boils down to "If they don't agree with (insert "deterrent" mechanic), they must be a griefer, troll or big bad PK'er!" which is absolutely **** and 99% of the time incorrect. And of course Ashes wasn't marketed solely as an Open World PvP MMO but what do you think they tag onto the name, and, what do you think people are most likely to be attracted to in the MMO market?  Definitely not "Open World Crafting MMO" or "Open World Horse Taming MMO", they sound like Farm Simulator clones."

Wow, so I never said anything about being a "griefer" or "troll" and I don't know what you mean by "big bad PKer" unless you are referring to some fictional boogeyman. And you're right, that sounds potentially ****, but I wasn't the one that said it either

As far as "ruining" MMO's. Since I am not making them, have not been asked for direct input, or otherwise personally funded one all by myself, it seems like developers/publishers catering to the crowd that will make them the most money would be at fault. Maybe that's where they have gone wrong, maybe Ashes not doing that will help them.

I also like how you intentionally tried to make this sound like a one horse pony MMO. I suppose you would like "Open World PvP MMO" only. That's great, and I hope that game is made for you and the others that would prefer it. Not everyone does. That doesn't ruin games, it just gives us diverse gaming options  

Enjoy the diversity and play something different once!
That's what all the non-PvP craft/gather types are going to try.

Great post by the way.

They should stick with Singleplayer, tbh.

ArchivedUser

@Vortigern I, in a lot of ways, agree with your sentiment there. But, I have avoided MMO's for a long time because of gank wars that offered no support to new players. Occasionally I started in a less populated area and had sometime to prepare. In other cases every time I started a character, within the first few minutes I was killed. I had no chance to learn the game and after a few times decided that was not the community for me.

I am hoping that the corruption systems curtails that type of behavior. I am not against PvP and would like to give it a go in Ashes.

I have tried games that actively advertise "end game" content that encourages PvP. I was unfortunately bored before making it to the level required to start "the real game."

ArchivedUser

I don't care for the idea of 'red' players or players in general losing their personal gear! If they drop anything it should be the inventory they are carrying and nothing else. 

ArchivedUser

Rollin said:

I don't care for the idea of 'red' players or players in general losing their personal gear! If they drop anything it should be the inventory they are carrying and nothing else. 

Then "working as intended." Spanking someone for bad behavior is pointless if they enjoy it. Those of you that grew up in a time when corporal punishment was used to discipline a child can comment on whether you got to choose whether that spanking was through clothes, bare skin, or some other item was used to beat your ass till you were chastised into playing well with others. (Answer: you didn't) Want to murder and pillage? Then take the risks and penalties associated.

ArchivedUser

Elder said:

You only get heavily punished for murdering Innocents. It's not a PvP focused game and if you choose to negatively influence someone else's gameplay there should be repercussions. 

The reason the punishment seems strict is because it required to if it's to act as a deterrent for murder. 

Murder????? lmao thats a bit much dont you think?. If killing another player in a digital enviorment that fosters that kind of violence in terms if murdering endless amounts of "animals, humanoid creatures, NPCs, etc only to get stronger so you can continue to "murder" more creatures in order to steal their items and mount them as trophys. Then i BELIEVE you should be ok if a player wanting to "murder" you, its what you signed up for, dont forget that...

ArchivedUser

Flatline said:

Elder said:

You only get heavily punished for murdering Innocents. It's not a PvP focused game and if you choose to negatively influence someone else's gameplay there should be repercussions. 

The reason the punishment seems strict is because it required to if it's to act as a deterrent for murder. 

Murder????? lmao thats a bit much dont you think?. If killing another player in a digital enviorment that fosters that kind of violence in terms if murdering endless amounts of "animals, humanoid creatures, NPCs, etc only to get stronger so you can continue to "murder" more creatures in order to steal their items and mount them as trophys. Then i BELIEVE you should be ok if a player wanting to "murder" you, its what you signed up for, dont forget that...

"Murder" is a direct quote from the man himself. So since it is his game to develop as he likes, then murder is the term we are going with for non-consensual pvp.
Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fvr9KYT104i8WYppCup1v6SUTZFJTobVz8uRHDas4YM/edit

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Flatline said:

Elder said:

You only get heavily punished for murdering Innocents. It's not a PvP focused game and if you choose to negatively influence someone else's gameplay there should be repercussions. 

The reason the punishment seems strict is because it required to if it's to act as a deterrent for murder. 

Murder????? lmao thats a bit much dont you think?. If killing another player in a digital enviorment that fosters that kind of violence in terms if murdering endless amounts of "animals, humanoid creatures, NPCs, etc only to get stronger so you can continue to "murder" more creatures in order to steal their items and mount them as trophys. Then i BELIEVE you should be ok if a player wanting to "murder" you, its what you signed up for, dont forget that...

"Murder" is a direct quote from the man himself. So since it is his game to develop as he likes, then murder is the term we are going with for non-consensual pvp.
Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fvr9KYT104i8WYppCup1v6SUTZFJTobVz8uRHDas4YM/edit

Sure. Doesnt change the fact it sounds rediculous, But if thats the term you want to go with, lets develope some consent forms or maybe a viable contract before i "murder" you in this video game. And while we are at it lets make a new class " Notary" they can stamp all our legal documents hahaha.

Its a game guys, you got beat up by a better player DEAL with it.. Adapt and overcome.

ArchivedUser

Sure. Doesnt change the fact it sounds rediculous, But if thats the term you want to go with, lets develope some consent forms or maybe a viable contract before i "murder" you in this video game. And while we are at it lets make a new class " Notary" they can stamp all our legal documents hahaha.

Its a game guys, you got beat up by a better player DEAL with it.. Adapt and overcome. 

Umm...you didn't beat anyone. You attacked someone who didn't attack back until you killed them. That is how you gain corruption. If they attack back and you kill them, good for you. The mechanic is in place to penalize PK without consent actions. Don't like it, Adapt and Unsub.
More quotes for you to take back to the secret PK lair:

Steven-05/15/2017

@[Wolfpack] Rabbit_Games If they run around murdering people they will be taking the risk of dying, and their combat effectiveness drops as they gain corruption. Also location is revealed to bounty hunters

Steven-04/28/2017

The flagging system sufficiently disincentives murder/grieving. Trust 

ArchivedUser

@Flatline, you do realize the term "murder" here is being used to define killing a player's avatar that doesn't fight back. Not hunting or consensual PvP. You can use the term in any matter you like, but that doesn't change the way others here are using it. Do you have a better term?

To me, your point sounds like, "If you are going to hunt/kill a rabbit then you should be okay with being hunted/killed by another player?"
Personally I am not seeing the logic.

There is no sense in relating this to creatures than can/will fight back when attacked, even if severely out-matched by a superior opponent. The act of fighting back removes the term "murder" from the situation.

If you want to kill an avatar that is not fighting back there is no risk without corruption. You intentionally hunted/killed someone that didn't want to be hunted/killed, so now there is encouragement for bounty hunters to hunt/kill you. Risk has been restored to the situation.

ArchivedUser

Flatline said:

Murder????? lmao thats a bit much dont you think?. If killing another player in a digital enviorment that fosters that kind of violence in terms if murdering endless amounts of "animals, humanoid creatures, NPCs, etc only to get stronger so you can continue to "murder" more creatures in order to steal their items and mount them as trophys. Then i BELIEVE you should be ok if a player wanting to "murder" you, its what you signed up for, don't forget that...

This is a very good post.

ArchivedUser

I have been following this game for a while. With pvp, I like to do it on my own terms.  That is when I am questing I do not wish to be ganked/killed while trying to do a quest.  I would like to see either of the folliowing:

1.  Flag system - stay unflagged until you want to pvp and then have the option to turn it on.
2.  Open pvp zones where no pve activity occurs.  That way as soon as you enter that zone you became flagged.  

ArchivedUser

Flatline said:

Elder said:

You only get heavily punished for murdering Innocents. It's not a PvP focused game and if you choose to negatively influence someone else's gameplay there should be repercussions. 

The reason the punishment seems strict is because it required to if it's to act as a deterrent for murder. 

Murder????? lmao thats a bit much dont you think?. If killing another player in a digital enviorment that fosters that kind of violence in terms if murdering endless amounts of "animals, humanoid creatures, NPCs, etc only to get stronger so you can continue to "murder" more creatures in order to steal their items and mount them as trophys. Then i BELIEVE you should be ok if a player wanting to "murder" you, its what you signed up for, dont forget that...

The word "Murder" only applies to people. Animals can be killed.  They cannot be murdered. 

ArchivedUser

Elder said:

The word "Murder" only applies to people. Animals can be killed.  They cannot be murdered. 

You will be murdering human NPCs also. You do in all MMOs.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Elder said:

The word "Murder" only applies to people. Animals can be killed.  They cannot be murdered. 

You will be murdering human NPCs also. You do in all MMOs.

What's your point? During a siege I'll definitely be murdering some NPCs, but outside of that PvP environment it's prohibited. 

ArchivedUser

I think he also means evil NPCs in the story that you have to kill in a dungeon or raid. Maybe even just evil NPC brigands in the field.

ArchivedUser

SchalaZeal said:

I think he also means evil NPCs in the story that you have to kill in a dungeon or raid.

Oh, I doubt we'll be seeing much of that. So far every hostile NPC we've come across has been indigenous and affected by corruption in some way. 

ArchivedUser

If they by default attack on sight, wouldn't that be self-defense?
Again, either way, the developers used the term to indicate killing "greens" so I don't see the hang-up in this conversation. We're not engaging philosophically to determine a common definition prior to debate, it's already been done for this particular argument (at least here in Ashes).

ArchivedUser

legioner101 said:

node wars , thats gonna cause alot of drama

Drama is what every game needs,no fun if everything is A-OK,am I right? 

ArchivedUser

Elder said:

You only get heavily punished for murdering Innocents. It's not a PvP focused game and if you choose to negatively influence someone else's gameplay there should be repercussions. 

The reason the punishment seems strict is because it required to if it's to act as a deterrent for murder. 

Nicely said sir.. 

ArchivedUser

My thoughts on pkers is to have a system like archeage's system. Where people got to decide your fate in court. I don't feel like explaining so feel free to look up the archeage's system yourself if you don't know about it. Also would be cool to get payed to be a bounty hunter. Or something along those lines. Payed by other players to go after certain people.. idk just some ideas

ArchivedUser

*Still sitting over here concerned about green flagging abuse in resource areas*

ArchivedUser

Argentdawn said:

*Still sitting over here concerned about green flagging abuse in resource areas*

Once we get to experience exactly what the flagging system is like in practice we will have a much better idea if peoples concerns are justified or not. Alpha0 is under NDA so it may be sometime before we gain a better understanding, all concerns are valid but we just need to wait.

ArchivedUser

Alphas and Betas will be different then release.

People will know their characters are temporary, so they will test stuff out even getting corrupted.

So while under Alpha and Beta it may appear there are more purple characters, and that people ARE attacking and getting corrupted, I vouch you on release it WILL be different.

People will not be getting corrupted, and ruining their chars, and they WILL be staying green while grinding. Alpha and Beta will not be able to show you that.


Also I bet those people that are anti PvP, will be attacking people around in Alpha and Beta deliberately all the time, "showing to Intrepid" how there are too many attacks, and will be claiming punishment is too small, and keep attacking. Just to try to make things appear different then what they are.

When release happens, they gonna stay green. Mark my words.

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Alphas and Betas will be different then release.

People will know their characters are temporary, so they will test stuff out even getting corrupted.

So while under Alpha and Beta it may appear there are more purple characters, and that people ARE attacking and getting corrupted, I vouch you on release it WILL be different.

People will not be getting corrupted, and ruining their chars, and they WILL be staying green while grinding. Alpha and Beta will not be able to show you that.


Also I bet those people that are anti PvP, will be attacking people around in Alpha and Beta deliberately all the time, "showing to Intrepid" how there are too many attacks, and will be claiming punishment is too small, and keep attacking. Just to try to make things appear different then what they are.

When release happens, they gonna stay green. Mark my words.

I admit it seems logic, that behavior before and after release will differ. I would also try to test out mechanics to know how to behave in the final game. 

I really like this topic, PvP is a crucial part because emotions tend to boil faster in PvP than in PvE. The developers might know this, too

ArchivedUser

Great idea! I will be in the Alpha/Beta test, I will be testing all the systems.
As for my "Real" character at release, rather or not I fight back will come down to how I feel, what I am doing, and how much the original "provoking" attack devastates me.