PVP may not be the only focus, but it is a major focus of the game, so much so that without it the game would not work as intended. Eventually everyone will participate in it, at least for a brief time, whether than want to or not. Same goes for PVP players and PVE. Doing only PVE or PVP exclusively will be nigh impossible in this game so people should go in expecting to experience both at some point.
Ashes is a PvX game. PvP is an integral part of their systems and the game has been built around that. Go to aocwiki.net and watch the relevant livestreams. Information is out there if you look.
im pretty sure pvp will have overwhelming consequences
You're right. Successful sieges will de-level nodes, successfully taking a caravan will cause someone, possibly an enemy, to lose a large portion of their goods to you. Going on a ganking spree will give corruption and make a person traceable by every bounty hunter as well as make them weaker the more they gank. The consequences can be pretty overwhelming both globally and on a personal level.
I would like to see server leader boards for arenas. This metric would allow us to see us how we stand against our peers always good thing to push you forward. Since arenas represent a smaller portion of the total population would like to see cross server pvp as far as arenas are concerned. So maybe a que system just for arenas is in order or some way to play cross server.
Would like to see standarized pvp gear for arenas. Arenas are so competative that small differences in gear can make huge differences. The way Guild of Wars did it is pretty good but could possible make a better model.
Of course PvP will be important. Cities can be fought over, via PvP. Trading? Caravans can be taken over by bandits (PvP). Ashes can be a dangerous place.
I for one hope PvP is optionable as stated before, and not the main focus. Look at most any PvP centric MOM where it becomes THE focus and you can see the short lifespan of most of them. PvP is fine if consensual and focused with goals, allowing mindless ganking as "PvP` would kill this as fast as many other titles.
PvP sure, if optional and done well. PvP open for anyone to be attacked? No thanks.
I'm good with a ganker being able to occasionally do their thing and be able to be punished for it. Corruption system works for me.
I also think it's important to have systems where non combatants can contribute. Crafting, building and repairing structures within the "safe spaces" inside the city walls. That way a player who builds for group support and not solo play aren't forced into the wild where they won't stand much of a chance.
First thing for me is the idea of murder or civilized in a game seems somewhat out of place. There is no loss of life in a video game, just the idea of murder may hold some meaning in a 'hardcore' setting where if you die your character no longer exists. In this game you only pop back to a bind. And you lose only time. As far as civilized goes that is just not what a video game is for. It is adventure and danger. If done right every step you take should be exciting whether you are exploring the unknown or bringing your goods to market.
Personally, I am not a PvPer; however, I can still see the merits of having open world PvP. I'm more about game immersion. For example, if you run into some sort of rival trade guild poaching on "your territory", arguing and breaking out into a fight is much more realistic than staring at each other and emoting rude gestures. I like that feeling of nervousness and hesitation, wondering who will strike first or if the fight can be avoided.
That and it encourages taking a party with you instead of always going solo. It'd be fun to find some mercs in a tavern looking for work. If I need mats from a cave, I probably want to take a tank, dps and some heals cause who knows what's in that dark, scary place. >.>
Yes, you'll have gankers on occasion, but I believe IS is putting in ways to deter camping players. So you get killed by a player maybe a couple times per week, considering everything you can manage to do beyond those few instances, doesn't seem all that bad. And there will hopefully be enough pvp type events happening in world to satisfy their thirst for epic battles. \o/
**And when they're satisfied with battle, they can grab some grub, a pint to drink and rest up at my inn~.
At the end of the day the problem with PvP is the griefing side.. aka one sided combat. Those who think they are awesome winning one sided combat have a problem. That is not combat. Combat requires two people to engage.
Trying to cover that up with...well players must be forced to engage. No! Thats you trying to project your own personal PvP preference in a PvX game forcing other players to play in a way that you want when you want. Its a form of entitlement.
So I am happy for the corruption system. It steers players away from unsavoury and selfish mentalities and forcing them into a communal way of playing. Where PvP combat is required and demanded in the right place and at the right time.
Well world pvp can allways be a touchy thing that's for sure. But banditry, protecting your caravans, claiming spots with the might of you or your guild is big parts of world pvp. I enjoyed it in Archeage and Black Desert online
There will be a lot of PVE and PVP content in the game, no point of it being focused on either one of them, I think fans of both will be satisfied in the end
It's about game tag. If it's PvX, then this includes PvP, so yes. Resource gathering by BOTH PvE and PvP. Equals PvX.
If this was a PvE game, then it would be safe to say no.
And open world PvP with no consequences for unwanted attacks is not the only way to call it PvX if you have seiges and caravans.
Murder is a poor comparison, I think mugging is more apt. Few people would like to be in a situation where they can get jumped at any moment because nothing negative will happen to your attacker. Thus the corruption system.
If the corruption system makes the game a PvE game in your opinion then you disagree with me (which doesn't matter much) and the makers of the game. I'm not interested in which of us is right on the meaning of PvX because that won't change how IS produces the game.
It's like manufacturer selling an awesome lawn mower, and promote it in all it's glory, saying it can cut grass like mad and offering amazing user experience but then...
...they say:
- each second you cut the grass your lawn mower has increased chance to break down completely, the longer the period that you have cut grass the breakdown will be more devastating if it breaks, costing you more money to repair, cause more parts will be lost - the only way to minimize the risk is to not cut grass at all, and rather live with your grass in harmony, or cut grass only 30 seconds at a time, and then turn lawn mower off for 5 minutes and polish it to remove corruption from it
But you know, this lawn mower can cut grass amazingly, and you should buy it!
Then one customer says, but wtf... I want lawn mower to cut grass... it's a lawn mower for christ sake! If you promote lawn mower then sell a damn lawn mower in the way it's intended to be used!
But other customer says to the first one, stfu, I love grass, and love it to grow, i will buy this lawn mower and use it so grass can grow over it on it's handles and be even taller. You are stupid for wanting to cut grass with it, you are just a griefer.
This is what analogy for AoC will be if IS promotes it as PvX, but then punishes each occasion of PvP in it, even meaningful attacks for resources.
As long as part of users can say, I want to be green and not have PvP part of PvX forced on me, as long as they can do that AOC IS NOT A PVX GAME.
It's like manufacturer selling an awesome lawn mower, and promote it in all it's glory, saying it can cut grass like mad and offering amazing user experience but then...
...they say:
- each second you cut the grass your lawn mower has increased chance to break down completely, the longer the period that you have cut grass the breakdown will be more devastating if it breaks, costing you more money to repair, cause more parts will be lost - the only way to minimize the risk is to not cut grass at all, and rather live with your grass in harmony, or cut grass only 30 seconds at a time, and then turn lawn mower off for 5 minutes and polish it to remove corruption from it
But you know, this lawn mower can cut grass amazingly, and you should buy it!
Then one customer says, but wtf... I want lawn mower to cut grass... it's a lawn mower for christ sake! If you promote lawn mower then sell a damn lawn mower in the way it's intended to be used!
But other customer says to the first one, stfu, I love grass, and love it to grow, i will buy this lawn mower and use it so grass can grow over it on it's handles and be even taller. You are stupid for wanting to cut grass with it, you are just a griefer.
This is what analogy for AoC will be if IS promotes it as PvX, but then punishes each occasion of PvP in it, even meaningful attacks for resources.
As long as part of users can say, I want to be green and not have PvP part of PvX forced on me, as long as they can do that AOC IS NOT A PVX GAME.
A lawnmower's sole purpose is to cut grass, AOC's sole purpose is not PvP... And you should perform at least yearly maintenance on your lawnmower.
And they are not punishing every PvP encounter, they are only punishing one type, where one party is unwilling and not in a PvP area. Is that scenario really worthy of so much concern?
I'm curious as to what the difference between a PvP and a PvX game is for you? Because surely you can't call AOC a PvE game at this point.
And they are not punishing every PvP encounter, they are only punishing one type, where one party is unwilling and not in a PvP area. Is that scenario really worthy of so much concern?
I'm curious as to what the difference between a PvP and a PvX game is for you? Because surely you can't call AOC a PvE game at this point.
PvX = PvE + PvP and their full forms, so full dungeoneering, full gathering, full crafting... + full PvP without restrictions
PvX is not restricted PvE + restricted PvP
PvX is full PvE + full PvP
What bunch of you is asking is for PvX to be full PvE + restricted PvP
and Full PvP means there is NO "unwilligness", you are open to PvP and you need to deal with it, rather then asking for game mechanics to protect you by punishing others for engaging in PvP with you.
I do agree that IS can try to restrict "griefing" a notch (even if I myself wouldn't restrict it, I would leave it for community to handle it).
However one sided attack is NOT griefing. Griefing is following one person constantly over long period of time and killing him repeatedly for no purpose other then to kill him. THAT is griefing. And even that shouldn't be handled by game mechanics but ok... for that being handled by mechanics, I can live with that.
But to ask to punish each instance of one sided attack (even meaningful, for resources) to be punished is complete BS (i'm sorry to say), and completely lame.
If you are playing "PvX" game you do not GET TO be "unwilling" for one half of it. You need to "deal with" both PvE and PvP.
There is corruption but there is also greater losses for folks who die without fighting back compared to those who resist death. The game isn't geared completely towards your arch nemisis "Carebear"
If you're trying to pull in the PvE crowd and the PvP crowd this system seems a fair compromise. Most of the community seems ok with it.
Is ganking unsuspecting carebears really that fun anyway?
If I sell someone a machine gun do I expect them to get their full use out of it on civilians. After all they paid for a gun that has one purpose of killing and maiming. Surely they deserve to get their monies worth for the purpose intended ? If its just to look at , then I can sell photos. Much cheaper.
Comments
Sorry to say, but honestly this game isn't a fit to you then. There WILL be fights in a world, and you WILL get killed eventually.
If you can't deal with that, you'd better not even start playing.
Would like to see standarized pvp gear for arenas. Arenas are so competative that small differences in gear can make huge differences. The way Guild of Wars did it is pretty good but could possible make a better model.
PvP sure, if optional and done well. PvP open for anyone to be attacked? No thanks.
Eggonomicon
I also think it's important to have systems where non combatants can contribute. Crafting, building and repairing structures within the "safe spaces" inside the city walls. That way a player who builds for group support and not solo play aren't forced into the wild where they won't stand much of a chance.
As far as civilized goes that is just not what a video game is for. It is adventure and danger. If done right every step you take should be exciting whether you are exploring the unknown or bringing your goods to market.
For example, if you run into some sort of rival trade guild poaching on "your territory", arguing and breaking out into a fight is much more realistic than staring at each other and emoting rude gestures. I like that feeling of nervousness and hesitation, wondering who will strike first or if the fight can be avoided.
That and it encourages taking a party with you instead of always going solo. It'd be fun to find some mercs in a tavern looking for work. If I need mats from a cave, I probably want to take a tank, dps and some heals cause who knows what's in that dark, scary place. >.>
Yes, you'll have gankers on occasion, but I believe IS is putting in ways to deter camping players. So you get killed by a player maybe a couple times per week, considering everything you can manage to do beyond those few instances, doesn't seem all that bad. And there will hopefully be enough pvp type events happening in world to satisfy their thirst for epic battles. \o/
**And when they're satisfied with battle, they can grab some grub, a pint to drink and rest up at my inn~.
Trying to cover that up with...well players must be forced to engage. No! Thats you trying to project your own personal PvP preference in a PvX game forcing other players to play in a way that you want when you want. Its a form of entitlement.
So I am happy for the corruption system. It steers players away from unsavoury and selfish mentalities and forcing them into a communal way of playing. Where PvP combat is required and demanded in the right place and at the right time.
Griefing is not one sided combat, griefing is killing a player multiple times over for no other purpose than to make him suffer.
Killing player one time to get resources he was carrying, even if it was one sided, is NOT griefing, that is still a meaningful conflict.
Lmao, taking your competitions resources is quite meaningful in PvX context, even in PvE context.
I'm actually not sure if you are just trolling or what.
Regardless, the problem previous games have experienced with PvP is that it turns into PPPPPvP and the professionals win.
Collaboration will be just as viable as competition.
If this was a PvE game, then it would be safe to say no.
Murder is a poor comparison, I think mugging is more apt. Few people would like to be in a situation where they can get jumped at any moment because nothing negative will happen to your attacker. Thus the corruption system.
If the corruption system makes the game a PvE game in your opinion then you disagree with me (which doesn't matter much) and the makers of the game. I'm not interested in which of us is right on the meaning of PvX because that won't change how IS produces the game.
...they say:
- each second you cut the grass your lawn mower has increased chance to break down completely, the longer the period that you have cut grass the breakdown will be more devastating if it breaks, costing you more money to repair, cause more parts will be lost
- the only way to minimize the risk is to not cut grass at all, and rather live with your grass in harmony, or cut grass only 30 seconds at a time, and then turn lawn mower off for 5 minutes and polish it to remove corruption from it
But you know, this lawn mower can cut grass amazingly, and you should buy it!
Then one customer says, but wtf... I want lawn mower to cut grass... it's a lawn mower for christ sake! If you promote lawn mower then sell a damn lawn mower in the way it's intended to be used!
But other customer says to the first one, stfu, I love grass, and love it to grow, i will buy this lawn mower and use it so grass can grow over it on it's handles and be even taller. You are stupid for wanting to cut grass with it, you are just a griefer.
This is what analogy for AoC will be if IS promotes it as PvX, but then punishes each occasion of PvP in it, even meaningful attacks for resources.
As long as part of users can say, I want to be green and not have PvP part of PvX forced on me, as long as they can do that AOC IS NOT A PVX GAME.
And they are not punishing every PvP encounter, they are only punishing one type, where one party is unwilling and not in a PvP area. Is that scenario really worthy of so much concern?
I'm curious as to what the difference between a PvP and a PvX game is for you? Because surely you can't call AOC a PvE game at this point.
PvX = PvE + PvP and their full forms, so full dungeoneering, full gathering, full crafting... + full PvP without restrictions
PvX is not restricted PvE + restricted PvP
PvX is full PvE + full PvP
What bunch of you is asking is for PvX to be full PvE + restricted PvP
and Full PvP means there is NO "unwilligness", you are open to PvP and you need to deal with it, rather then asking for game mechanics to protect you by punishing others for engaging in PvP with you.
I do agree that IS can try to restrict "griefing" a notch (even if I myself wouldn't restrict it, I would leave it for community to handle it).
However one sided attack is NOT griefing. Griefing is following one person constantly over long period of time and killing him repeatedly for no purpose other then to kill him. THAT is griefing. And even that shouldn't be handled by game mechanics but ok... for that being handled by mechanics, I can live with that.
But to ask to punish each instance of one sided attack (even meaningful, for resources) to be punished is complete BS (i'm sorry to say), and completely lame.
If you are playing "PvX" game you do not GET TO be "unwilling" for one half of it. You need to "deal with" both PvE and PvP.
If you're trying to pull in the PvE crowd and the PvP crowd this system seems a fair compromise. Most of the community seems ok with it.
Is ganking unsuspecting carebears really that fun anyway?
This sounds good, i lold.