How do you want Legendaries to be Found and balanced in Ashes?

ArchivedUser

Unique legendaries - bleh.

I want to see an amazing sword, inspect that person, find out it is a legendary and then delve into how do I get one for me. Yes, more than likely I would look at the effort and decide my little stabber is good enough, but still I would like to dream.

I like the idea of the initial item drop that would start the quest line be one of the hardest steps in the process. Maybe have it drop off a boss in a dungeon but only when certain conditions were met, like kill the boss without any adds dying or something like that which is really hard and requires a lot of planning and effort to achieve. 

Or have it be on the top of a mountain and the way up is full of traps and jumping puzzles and other obstacles so it takes some real commitment to reach it. Once you do, well now you have taken the FIRST step in your journey to that legendary item and because of how hard it was to start, you know what kind of a ride you are in for.

I hate RNG being involved in these things for the reasons already mentioned.

My biggest wish though is that legendaries remain legendary. No idea what form expansions may take but if there is ever a power increase I hope there will be a quest line to improve the power of your legendary. It is just stupid to have a legendary become useless because a new continent is discovered. That is where the rot took hold in WoW.

ArchivedUser

What if there is only one of its kind of legendary item that can exist at one time, but it also has a durability thing like the other weapons, and getting it repaired back up has a chance of loss, allowing another player to get a chance of gaining it?

ArchivedUser

They should be legendary in the sense that they are lore related and unique. Maybe they could give some kind of special ability that empowers a skill or gives you a new skill (not usable in pvp instances ofc). 

I personaly would like legendaries to be very rare, the highest rarity ingame infact, be aquired from Quest chain, crafting or extremly rare drops or events. 

They could also make some fun legendaries like a fishing rod that lets you fish with 3 strings and baits at a time and stuff like that. 

As long as they are not mandatory or gamebreaking it will be fine

ArchivedUser

So I'll take a stab at this topic. 

We have (to my understanding) 2 types of legendary. 

1) Legendary as in only 1 per server (no duplicates). 
2) Legendary as in extremely hard to get (whether that's through quest/raids/crafting/ect...) with extremely "low" chance of obtaining. 

Personally I think there should be both, but the way to approach it is slightly different to what everyone has been saying. I think there should be 8 (as many as there are archetypes). Except it's not the weapon, but an "accessory" that has synergy to the specific class.

1. Item has a decent drop rate (when killing player that has item). 
2. Drop rate is increased to (nearly) guaranteed when player is killed by another player who holds a legendary.
3. No player can have 2 or more legendaries in their possession at any given time. 
4. Legendaries gives off nearest city location to other legendaries every hour (when other legendaries are owned by other players). 
5. Legendaries cannot be put in banks/guild-houses/ect... and can only be worn. 


This allows high level players to compete for legendaries, and gives us that "only one in the server" vibe that people were mentioning. It also avoids the whole "weapon" argument, since the best weapons will be made by crafters, and of course raiders. imagine the wars, conflicts, fights that will be wagged for the sake of legendaries. Since each class can have one they will be sought after by all the high ranking players in their respective fields. Guild will go to war with other guilds in hopes of their members holding those legendaries. We can even make things interesting and give guilds with more than 1 legendary some sort of bonus (maybe a slight % increase in gold or guild points or something along with some cool title or flair). 


Now regarding Legendary in the sense of "low" chance of obtaining. I think this should simply be classified as "epic" gear instead. This gear will naturally overtime lose it's shine, due to power creep, market economy, and simply new patches of the game. The "best" gear will always be evolving and as such will keep those crafters busy incidentally. 

Now how one breaks gear down exactly (their rankings and what not) can be done a number of different ways. You could have a tier system with an "upgrading" system. Think 4 main groups of gear class each progressivly harder/rarer to make/obtain, and then each group can be ehanced 7 times. (with their worth having a bit of overlap). 

Gear Tier: 
Bronze
Silver
Gold
Gold-Purple

I.E: (Bronze +7 = Silver +3)

Gold-Purple gear should basically be nearly impossible and require "boss"  items to be made (hence the crafters making the best gear). 


That's my 2 cents. 

ArchivedUser

I have 2 possible ideas regarding this. First you could have a single legendary weapon for each class, which is awarded to the best player of that class on the server. That player would have the title of grandmaster of their class and be recognised as the best. However, in holding the weapon they could be challenged at any time to a 1v1 duel by someone of the same class, and if they lost the duel, their legendary weapon would pass to the player who beat them. 

The more traditional method that I would like to see would be through crafting. You would have to obtain unique rare crafting materials from world bosses that would then be used to craft the legendary item. You could throw in a quest at this point too but I don't think it's necessary. 

ArchivedUser

midnight-shadow said:

I have 2 possible ideas regarding this. First you could have a single legendary weapon for each class, which is awarded to the best player of that class on the server. That player would have the title of grandmaster of their class and be recognised as the best. However, in holding the weapon they could be challenged at any time to a 1v1 duel by someone of the same class, and if they lost the duel, their legendary weapon would pass to the player who beat them. 

The more traditional method that I would like to see would be through crafting. You would have to obtain unique rare crafting materials from world bosses that would then be used to craft the legendary item. You could throw in a quest at this point too but I don't think it's necessary. 

I think being forced to accept a duel no matter where you are or what you're doing would get a little annoying.

ArchivedUser

Personally I think it should be something like having to get super rare materials needed to craft the weapon and then also having to find a black Smith with the skill and knowledge to make the certain type of weapon/armour wanted. Like it would be cool to fight a dragon and after killing it if you could maybe take some its scales to make armour with those scales, and maybe if the dragon is a fire dragon or frost dragon some of that would have some effect on the armour/weapon. Giving it a different appearance and magical property or something. Some sort of like monster hunter? That would be a really cool to see in an mmo like this. Maybe stray away from legendaries and go for uniqueness in what we want. I'd rather be like hey I'm a tank and I want to be one that has dragon scale armour from a frost dragon that has for example a magical property that would slow people who hit me or something along those lines. And maybe there would be other tanks that go for a different style of armour maybe something with spikes on it that would hurt those he comes in contact with or maybe a tank that wants to be more agile so he goes and finds a rare metal that is strong but light so he gets an attack speed and mobility boost idk just some imagination. This whole secondary effect on armour isn't really needed but the appearance would be cool to see so we don't all look too similar like most other games. 

ArchivedUser

Elder said:

midnight-shadow said:

I have 2 possible ideas regarding this. First you could have a single legendary weapon for each class, which is awarded to the best player of that class on the server. That player would have the title of grandmaster of their class and be recognised as the best. However, in holding the weapon they could be challenged at any time to a 1v1 duel by someone of the same class, and if they lost the duel, their legendary weapon would pass to the player who beat them. 

The more traditional method that I would like to see would be through crafting. You would have to obtain unique rare crafting materials from world bosses that would then be used to craft the legendary item. You could throw in a quest at this point too but I don't think it's necessary. 

I think being forced to accept a duel no matter where you are or what you're doing would get a little annoying.

Yeah, you're right. Perhaps some kind of monthly tournament to decide who the best player of each class is would work better. 

ArchivedUser

I also like the idea of a legendary item being unique. I see it as a reward for hard work and being the first whether that be through extremely challenging raid/boss fights or puzzles to discover hidden lore.

This system might be helpful to solo players as well as group players with obtaining legendary items through lore.

ArchivedUser

midnight-shadow said:

Elder said:

midnight-shadow said:

I have 2 possible ideas regarding this. First you could have a single legendary weapon for each class, which is awarded to the best player of that class on the server. That player would have the title of grandmaster of their class and be recognised as the best. However, in holding the weapon they could be challenged at any time to a 1v1 duel by someone of the same class, and if they lost the duel, their legendary weapon would pass to the player who beat them. 

The more traditional method that I would like to see would be through crafting. You would have to obtain unique rare crafting materials from world bosses that would then be used to craft the legendary item. You could throw in a quest at this point too but I don't think it's necessary. 

I think being forced to accept a duel no matter where you are or what you're doing would get a little annoying.

Yeah, you're right. Perhaps some kind of monthly tournament to decide who the best player of each class is would work better. 

Hmm, but we can PK at anytime. That's why I said that there is a decent chance of you losing it. You want to hold onto that item, then you have to be the "best" and be able to fend of those who want it. Also having the item would can give you a title (if you want to show it). Otherwise you could simply keep a low profile and not publish the fact that you have it since it's such a sought after item. The only people who would have a vague idea of where it is are other legendary holders. 

ArchivedUser

You want to hold onto that item, then you have to be the "best" and be able to fend of those who want it.

And never go pee/eat/emergency while you're logged in. Since there is no safe zone except your freehold, and those might happen (having to leave unexpectedly) when you're not on it.

ArchivedUser

As a high end player with bad luck I much prefer a currency system that lets you get items you want xD I do like RNG aspects but after having 4 different characters in WoW start with the worst possible legendary for that character I was so disheartened its one of the few reasons I took a brake.

ArchivedUser

@Guildart Intrepid has stated you wont be able to lose, the legendary item already during the live streams, forget which one. But someone will a Legendary item wont drop it after being PKed.

ArchivedUser

gundel said:

@Guildart Intrepid has stated you wont be able to lose, the legendary item already during the live streams, forget which one. But someone will a Legendary item wont drop it after being PKed.

What if he he's highly corrupted? Not that someone would risk it.

ArchivedUser

Not sure, maybe then its possible but usually when a Dev says an item cant be dropped from Pk Id imagine that plays into corruption as well. But its a interesting question.

ArchivedUser

gundel said:

@Guildart Intrepid has stated you wont be able to lose, the legendary item already during the live streams, forget which one. But someone will a Legendary item wont drop it after being PKed.

As gundel said. Item drops are a function of corruption. Being killed doesn't generate corruption. Killing someone who stays non-combatant does. So if you are running around with your legendary killing other people outside of consensual pvp, then you would have a chance to drop it. Regular pvp or being killed by a PKer there is no risk to you at all.

ArchivedUser

SchalaZeal said:

You want to hold onto that item, then you have to be the "best" and be able to fend of those who want it.

And never go pee/eat/emergency while you're logged in. Since there is no safe zone except your freehold, and those might happen (having to leave unexpectedly) when you're not on it.

Switch to loading screen if your so concerned. When you're logged into the world, the world can interact with you, whether that's positively or negatively. If your only trite is that people need to pee/eat/emergency, then I say people can simply click the "loading screen" button if that's the case. You're not "logging off" more so looking at which server to jump to and is pretty common in MMO's. 

Elder said:

gundel said:

@Guildart Intrepid has stated you wont be able to lose, the legendary item already during the live streams, forget which one. But someone will a Legendary item wont drop it after being PKed.

What if he he's highly corrupted? Not that someone would risk it.

Ah, that may be the case, I do not know if they have said anything regarding legendaries. Also anything they said must be taken w/ a grain of salt seeing as they stated that anything is subject to change. 

UnknownSystemError said:

gundel said:

@Guildart Intrepid has stated you wont be able to lose, the legendary item already during the live streams, forget which one. But someone will a Legendary item wont drop it after being PKed.

As gundel said. Item drops are a function of corruption. Being killed doesn't generate corruption. Killing someone who stays non-combatant does. So if you are running around with your legendary killing other people outside of consensual pvp, then you would have a chance to drop it. Regular pvp or being killed by a PKer there is no risk to you at all.

Exactly. If you wish to flex your "power" then realize that as being a holder of such a legendary will place you at greater risk then others. Comes with the perks of having an edge on everyone. 

ArchivedUser

These ideas are pretty cool to see guys, It seems most agree of having a raid drop give the chance for a legendary item, also having other avenues to gain legendary items seems to also be a fair way to go about it as well.

ArchivedUser

Personally I hate the idea of Legendary items that are only available thru raiding by large guilds. So perhaps instead of dropping legendary items in the darkest depths of a forsaken dungeon. You could instead have rare components drop throughout the world. Perhaps along the lines of EQ where random mobs would spawn on rare occasions that drop these components. It could be a rare drop off of a rare mob from different nodes to make it even harder to earn but available to any max level player who was lucky enough to gather all the components.

ArchivedUser

Legendaries should feel like the name suggests. It should be hard to obtain, require tons of dedication, patience, and fortitude to make. Possibly even multiple grueling paths to find pieces of the item before going on yet another difficult quest to seek someone with the knowledge to craft it. 

Lots us of hidden lore, questinging, and other events required to unfold clues on how to search out such a powerful weapon. Too many games basically hand these out and make them anything but legendary in status. 

I should be able to see someone and say “wow! They actually managed to get X. That’s amazing.”

ArchivedUser

My blank interpretation of 'legendary' without using previous games as a reference, is not necessarily a relic or artifact but an object that has been imbued with accomplishments or deeds by their corresponding respective wielder. I feel that merely coming into possession does not entitle the holder of the object its accomplishments....

So my feeling is that Legendaries are made and earned, not found, bought or stumbled upon as such.

I feel quests and crafting need to retake center stage on itemization. That time, knowledge and skills are the main resource.

RNG and loot tables should focus on materials, recipes, augments and components.

Finally, Legendary items require legendary maintenance.

ArchivedUser

Do we have to WOW the game already? The game hasn't started yet and people want the gear race to begin.. Do not...I repeat, do not make the game about acquiring the ultimate gear. We have those already, in droves and they are boring now.

Here is how it works. High end gear is limited and people complain as such. Devs tweak the game and make high end gear easier to get and thus have to make a different tier of high end gear. Rinse and repeat. One of the worst things that can be done by the Devs is gear focus. Make a fun game. Period. 

ArchivedUser

Mobrechael said:

Do we have to WOW the game already? The game hasn't started yet and people want the gear race to begin.. Do not...I repeat, do not make the game about acquiring the ultimate gear. We have those already, in droves and they are boring now.

Here is how it works. High end gear is limited and people complain as such. Devs tweak the game and make high end gear easier to get and thus have to make a different tier of high end gear. Rinse and repeat. One of the worst things that can be done by the Devs is gear focus. Make a fun game. Period. 

@Mobrechael You know one of the best pen and paper DnD campaigns I ever played was run by a DM that had three binders full of NPC their character traits very detailed towns, cities and dungeons. The funny thing was magic Items ware very scarce. It led to a lot of people complaining in the beginning.  But as we played more we appreciated it cause when we got something it was exciting, had value and a sense of accomplishment.  People quickly changed their view point and really started enjoying the campaign.

So in a way I am with you here, more focus on game play than Elite items could lead to more value when we accomplish things.  When they get over played they can lose their value. High end gear is something we should put the work in to get.  This can be done in many ways.

Thanks for bringing up some good memories. 

ArchivedUser

Dorje said:

Mobrechael said:

Do we have to WOW the game already? The game hasn't started yet and people want the gear race to begin.. Do not...I repeat, do not make the game about acquiring the ultimate gear. We have those already, in droves and they are boring now.

Here is how it works. High end gear is limited and people complain as such. Devs tweak the game and make high end gear easier to get and thus have to make a different tier of high end gear. Rinse and repeat. One of the worst things that can be done by the Devs is gear focus. Make a fun game. Period. 

@Mobrechael You know one of the best pen and paper DnD campaigns I ever played was run by a DM that had three binders full of NPC their character traits very detailed towns, cities and dungeons. The funny thing was magic Items ware very scarce. It led to a lot of people complaining in the beginning.  But as we played more we appreciated it cause when we got something it was exciting, had value and a sense of accomplishment.  People quickly changed their view point and really started enjoying the campaign.

So in a way I am with you here, more focus on game play than Elite items could lead to more value when we accomplish things.  When they get over played they can lose their value. High end gear is something we should put the work in to get.  This can be done in many ways.

Thanks for bringing up some good memories. 

100% with you. Magic items is like salt to food...a little is great, too much and you push the plate away.

ArchivedUser

I agree with many of the views made here and that legendary items should be unique. I have played SWTOR and ESO and found it a bit lackluster that a unique item was available to all the players as long as they grind enough through rng.

I believe that with how the game's environment is said to always be fluid and that certain quests can be unique for each individual that those quests should reflect that.

Giving the chance of allowing the player to find a unique legendary items that are specific to them during these types of quests be it end of mission loot or creature kill or even as an expansion or side quest after completing the original quest.

Or maybe even just hidden in the locations of these quests waiting for those who explore every inch of the land they walk.

But the important thing would be that they would be unique and would have no duplicates.

ArchivedUser

dabudo said:

I like the idea of Legendary items (of any kind) with a big caveat - how they're obtained. EQII implemented class specific legendary weapons that, at first, were obtained via raiding. And, in my strong opinion, that caused the break-up of more friendships and guilds than any other single factor.

The problem was that the raid zones were so difficult that only dedicated raid guilds could do them (and sometimes not even then). Certainly, these zones were beyond the capability of small guilds or friends/family guilds. So a couple of things happened.

One, Raid guilds would charge non-guild raid members a hefty fee to raid with them so that they could get their class weapon. Two, people started leaving the guilds they were in so they could join a raid guild resulting in hurt feelings, guilds falling apart, etc. My guild was one of those that imploded.

So, if there are going to be legendary items, how they are obtained is crucial. It needs to be in a way that anyone can potentially get the item without having to be in a large guild (thru' quest lines for example).

A little off topic here, but still...

Veeshan's Peak (the zone where all final updates for Mythical weapons were) was kind of hard for the first few months of RoK - but that was due to developer error. Once the zone was fixed, however, it was easy. If you were in a guild that was able to co-ordinate enough to actually get everyone access to VP, then actually doing VP was easy.

As for your guild - if it was made up of players that wanted to raid and were capable of raiding, the guild leadership should have made that happen. The guild is there to serve the members, not the other way round.

What I'd like to see is a situation similar to Path of Exile. The rarest, top tier items all have a unique effects to them that actually change the mechanics of the game. It may be something like turning all fire spells in to cold, or allowing specific spells and attacks to be used as if by someone several levels higher. However, outside of those specific effects, the next level of items down can be - if crafted well - much better over all as the next tier down has no unique effects, but is much more stat heavy in general.

In that game, an entire character build can be made around the unique effects on some items, but if you are not after a specific unique effect for your build or situation, you probably don't want to use the "top tier" of item for a given slot, and instead want to focus on the next tier down.

ArchivedUser

Carefully.

ArchivedUser

Legendaries should feel one of a kind in my opinion. If wanting to implement more than one item - per legendary, like if 3 people have the same, the lore would have to make sense in terms of the amount. That's another keypoint that I would really like to be focused on - lore. It feels so much more epic knowing you're walking around with the almighty sword of a god, or a combat legend, therefor it is also important that where you find it, or how you obtain it has meaning.

ArchivedUser

My opinion about the legendary:

- How to obtain them: To respect the idea of ​​immersion that one has of AOC, it can exist only 2 ways.

                                        - Secret quests: I think it's important that everyone gets the chance to get  egendary  and therefore getting them must have a dose of RNG. As a result, they could use quests that would appear randomly (both on the first NPC in the game and in a HL zone). These quests will have to be very long and require the farm of sources, the PVE and the PVP, why not involving a whole guild (this could help for example, a new players who would be lucky, to find a guild).

                                      - The crafting: We all know in our favorite video games  a genius of manufacture of weapon or armor, it's not delirious to imagine craftsmen able to craft legendary objects in AOC. For me, the RNG should also be present. The craft could start at the obtain of a rare resource (legendary quality), or at the obtain  recipe. But the craft would require, the collaboration of a large part existing jobs (if not all) and collossal resources. I do not really like the idea of selling or exchanging legendary items, that's why I think the craftman will have to keep it for him, or bind him (by a quest) to someone another he will be able to choose. and so the craftman could get a title like "Legendary Blacksmith" and other.

PS : sorry for my english

ArchivedUser

Balanced sounds boring to unique legendarys.