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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Quests and leveling, actually being hard!
ArchivedUser
Guest
Please Please let leveling actually be hard again in an mmorpg. I feel like ive done countless mmo's and have got so bored so fast because the leveling was not difficult, I can remember some mmo's where I didn't even die all the way up to level cap, or I look down at my level and I see that I'm already level 25 and think, "how the eff did that happen? I just started playing an hour ago." So my point is this, I remember back in the old days of WOW (not a fan boy btw) where it took five, six hours+ if you knew where to go just to get to level 10, and that was the easy levels. You also died multiple times trying to get there. I think thats why that game was so addictive and the most played. (personally)
I want the challenge back, I want most of my content to be within my questing, the difficulty of the game. If you are thinking to yourself"you are crazy man I just want to get to max level to get to the good stuff" I say to you, the good stuff should be throughout the entire game. I know that AOC is going with a NODE system for it to be ever changing which is sweet. I have kept up on all AOC's twitch, blogs, etc. I guess what I am asking is for it to be harder, I am looking at the leveling Steven was doing during his alpha zero test and I think it could be even harder then it is. If you think that the hardness of a game will deter people away, just look at dark souls and see why that is so popular. I don't want to be level 50 in a week or two, I want to be level 50 in a year.. I think adding the level of difficulty will make the game that much more immersive. I will have to know where I am going, and be involved in the ever changing world in order to be amazed. With Stevens ideas of no fast travel, only walking, I think my dream of actually having a difficult mmo again, might come true. What are your thoughts? and also Have they talked about this to any extent? I cannot seem to find it. Thanks for all your input:)
I want the challenge back, I want most of my content to be within my questing, the difficulty of the game. If you are thinking to yourself"you are crazy man I just want to get to max level to get to the good stuff" I say to you, the good stuff should be throughout the entire game. I know that AOC is going with a NODE system for it to be ever changing which is sweet. I have kept up on all AOC's twitch, blogs, etc. I guess what I am asking is for it to be harder, I am looking at the leveling Steven was doing during his alpha zero test and I think it could be even harder then it is. If you think that the hardness of a game will deter people away, just look at dark souls and see why that is so popular. I don't want to be level 50 in a week or two, I want to be level 50 in a year.. I think adding the level of difficulty will make the game that much more immersive. I will have to know where I am going, and be involved in the ever changing world in order to be amazed. With Stevens ideas of no fast travel, only walking, I think my dream of actually having a difficult mmo again, might come true. What are your thoughts? and also Have they talked about this to any extent? I cannot seem to find it. Thanks for all your input:)
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Comments
I believe the 'craziness' of WoW vanilla is what many people to this day still long for in that game. Blizzard has made so many quality of life improvements throughout the years... much needed qol improvements, and the game has improved in so many ways, but along the way, any challenge associated with leveling was lost.
Today, in my opinion, the only challenges in WoW lie in end game raiding and PvP. Leveling has become something one must 'hurry up and get through' in order to do what really matters... And the 'hurry up' happens whether intentional or not. The levels fly by compared to how it once was.
Though there is no level cap, Black Desert Online seems to also have made early leveling easier than it was originally. I have no direct knowledge of this as I discovered the game after any changes, but forum discussions often describe them as being bad for the game.
I do though remember being a low level character in WoW vanilla and trying to run with two friends to Ironforge for the first time. Back then, the only alliance auction house was located there, so we thought it worth the trip.
Well, while running through the wetlands... on the road, giant crocodiles would aggo us from way off in the swamp, run out, and one shot us. We died so many times lol. Rez...run... Die. Over and over. It was so awful and so funny at the same time.
We eventually made it to Ironforge, we laughed about it alot, and we felt a real sense of camaraderie having all suffered through the same miserable trip.
Today Blizz has 'fixed' the aggro problem in those areas, and the crocodiles leave road travelers alone. Probably a needed fix, but I do wonder what stories the new players tell about leveling...
Vanilla players seem to have many, and most all are about how bad it 'sucked'. It in fact, did... And for some reason it is still remembered fondly.
I trust the devs of games know what is best for a game and that is why leveling changes are made once it has been played for a bit, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the AoC devs make some leveling 'mistakes' similar to those that were made in the early days of WoW.
- Don't care when I gain levels and skills points
- Don't bother optimizing my build
- Don't care when I find new gear
The mobs usually die by just looking at them anyway, so why should I? And if the levels come too fast, the gear I am finding just gets outdated really fast.I can understand that there are different opinions to this as well. Someone wants to feel like a superhero from level 1, while others wants to be a dude who just picked up a sword and has to work for progress.
At the minimum, I hope there is (a scaling) diversity in the difficulty of the mobs, and that if I want greater challenge I can find tougher mobs to fight. Today's games usually have really easy open world mobs, and only dungeons (sometimes) and raids have any difficulty.
There should be many degrees of challenge, for different sizes of groups. Whether I am playing solo, with a friend, or with a group, I want to be able to push my character and my build. And be rewarded if I succeed.
That should fit nicely with the Risk vs Reward mentality that Intrepid is promoting.
But to come back to your own post, I agree with most anything you've said. The biggest time drain on those levelling system of early wow, were waiting for resources (mana/hp) or corpse runs. Which is actually good, having to properly pull, during levelling, otherwise you'd die. It was a skill you needed in dungeons too. Waiting for mana and such during levelling, prepared you, and made you patient to wait for healer mana in dungeons. All things that have gotten lost along the way.
The point I am trying to make is. Levelling is an experience in it's own, it's comparable with a very in-depth, long tutorial. Where you will be learning, and coming to grips with game mechanics, class mechanics, and all sorts of other interactions. And you want to give players time to learn these things within your levelling process.
However realistically, there will always be a more casual oriented player base, and they might not like it, However if the target Group for Ashes are more hardcore oriented players, then I don't think this will be a problem. On the other side, if they do want please both sides; I would favor hard mode servers, this way the game play enjoyment of both sides won't be affected by each other
Here is hoping I don't see a 'Level up to max level in under a hour guide' on the internets for AOC. Divinity Original Sin 2 is one game where leveling up your character is in itself an amazing achievement.
i'm sure some people would prefer not to grind for hours upon hours,but thats honestly how a MMO should be ''a time sink''
- How dangerous are the mobs
- How much time is needed to level
You can have really easy mobs that give little XP, thus slow levelling.You can also have really strong mobs that give a lot of XP, thus fast levelling.
Personally, I'm not too worried about 2. I think levelling pace will be fine. There are "only" 50 levels and as the game is new, I think the pace of levelling will naturally be slower. The problem with levelling pace usually emerges after some years when the level cap suddenly is 100, and people wanna blaze their alts to "end game". Hopefully AoC will not become one of those games.
For me though, I am much more interested in bullet point 1 when I talk about challenge. I liked the times when getting adds usually meant having two choices: run, or die.
I stopped playing when it turned into a F2P and didnt really watch any of the news surrounding it.
Either way, I really hope that they are gonna buff the mobs so that you cant just faceroll over them... I mean in WoW nowadays you just pull 15 mobs and nuke them down as a tank.
@McKnightrider
I have to say, in the quest department, no matter how much I scoffed at the idea when I first heard it I have to admit I completely agree with thelazypeon when he said that runescape has some of the best, most unique and impactful quests of any mmo. I'm not going to pretend I've played a ton of mmos but man the more I think about how cool, challenging and game-changing (in how you experienced the world and game) the quests in that game were, it's hard to picture a comparable or superior system.
It was one of my childhood mmorpgs (AION, WoW and Guild Wars 1)
I just hope that IS learned of NCSofts failure.
What i would rly wish for .. and even if im pretty confident with this game i still cant imagine this will happen would be to make it possible for skilled players to beat much stronger enemys . Sounds simple but its a rare thing . You need skill based mechanics and mobs with various skills so u can use your skill to dodge or block at the right moment, counter there skills, have a good timing etc.
The more finished and complex the fighting system and the mob mechanics are the more you can reach with your skill . And its a rly satisfying feeling to beat something high over your level or to beat a boss solo cause you dodged all of his attacks with good timing, countered his skills with your skills and mby knew a mechanic how to use the tarrain .
In general i think every kind of skill should be rewarded in a perfect game . So players who good at tactic get rewarded cause they can beat hard raids as group leaders . People who are just smart and good with numbers can get rich with trading . People with patience and passion get good crafters, and people with high reaction and keyboard skills can beat stronger enemys . A Dream .
But as i said i cant imagine now that they implement that kind of polished fighting system at release . But im happy if im wrong ^^
Where i gain some hope for horizontal progression is via these in game nodes for Ashes. They seem very intriguing. Also i'm a sucker for sieges and Guild Castles.