Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
This is not only a jump to conclusion but a superman leap. There are quite a number of different reasons for utilising an intermediate currency (many of which have already been mentioned) from pure flavour, to a potential in-game accrual in addition to real world cash influx. We know nothing whatsoever about this.
Asking questions is fine, doing a perfect Henny Penny is just a little silly.
these currencies* act as a loophole for regulations specific to cash $ purchases.
they are typically sold/exchanged for arbitrary values in bundles (common with f2p games) the bundle are typically structured so that purchased* items leave you with left over Embers*/spare change so you are incentivized to (top up) on more embers...ie consumer manipulative.
the true motive or reason behind having a intermediary currency is yet to be officially stated.
Intermediary currency/Embers* did not exist nor were a part of the crowd funding campaign/s
It was assumed that the cash shop at that time would be direct cash purchase....no longer the case.
As the OP stated intermediary currencies act as a fail safe should the subscription model fail or was never fully intended as the primary source of income.
Buy giving a subscriber Embers they are preventing subscribers from having to use more money to access the shop. Yes, it's a cash shop, but maybe they want players paying the sub (a lot have complained about the steepness of the price) to have access to the cash shop without dropping more cash.
How is lessening the amount of cash I have to add to the cash shop to buy things asking for more money?
I totally see your point, but it also seems like you shed all other opinions like water.
Idk if they still do it, but League of Legends used to have a running joke that if you managed to beat their currency system and reach 0 rp and posted it on the forums, one of riot’s employees would go give you 1rp lol. And then there’s all the situations where you want a skin or cosmetic and you’re 25 of the game currency short, so you go to buy currency but instead of just spending 5$ you spend 20$ cause you get ther “bonus” currency.
Its a marketing tactic and I’m not gonna really judge them for it. It definitely could be a slippery slope, but if they move f2p, or create a restrictive sub/f2p hybrid like the the disaster that is SWtOR, they are going to piss off a ton of their playerbase. Any amount of even hinting at that would be PR suicide.
I hope that Intrepid will implement the sugestions made by @Crymoar Maybe Embers will drop in game and you can earn cash shop currency without spending real cash?
Fun fact
The merit of the subscription appears to already have taken the back seat and is sinking further into it as the cash store develops...my observation and relative to the outcomes of previous MMO offerings.
It's looking like another run of the mill 1year till f2p MMO all over again.
and in case you are wondering, I'm not defending or pointing a finger at Steven. I'm just saying, don't jump into conclusions. it could be one of many reasons- a gold sink, a sub failsafe(least likely), a way to milk more money out of us( costume-45 embers, packs-50+), and many others. and also, from what I can see, there are 40k+ ppl who came here simply coz it's not P2W and not F2P. changing those means losing all those ppl, so losing like $40k+/ month. I don't think steven is going to do such a thing.
It's not paranoia, it's disappointment.
I call it out when I see it...and history tends to repeat itself. especially if areas of concern are not made aware of...
"No P2W" and "No f2p" are becoming more like fuzzy catch phrases with each development.
If Ashes is the biggest MMO flop of the 21st century then we won't be playing it and all these fears are moot.
Storm in a dollhouse teacup.
Every MMO over the passed decade has been "the biggest flop in MMO history"
and rather than differentiate Ashes seems to be adopting flaws.
you can"t "make MMOs great again" if you keep dragging in industry tropes that consistently ruined games before and expect a different result.
Most MMOs today a just glorified "dollhouses" and i am sure you will be able to purchase your teacup* for small cosmetic only Ember credit fee....
there is no certainty that ashes will go f2p what is evident however is the system in place to do so.
the only hope/compromise i have for Embers* is that they facilitate a 1 way exchange rate to allow cash store purchases with gameplay currency.
OP:
"I think this embers item is p2w cause it could be a repeat of similar systems of being able to be used to purchase cosmetics"
then he asks,
"Why not just buy costumes with real money?"
He also seems to.. in a sense ask a question along the lines of "This allows people to buy subscriptions using embers?" Which he makes as a statement.
Now lets try to clear up your woes about this system.
1. Embers are as a currency, for cosmetics.
Selling cosmetics for embers, buying embers to buy cosmetics might be a system in Ashes.
This is not p2w. Cosmetics may drop-ingame or beable to be earned, and you can sell those cosmetics for embers to buy other cosmetics you would want to have off of the marketplace.
Note: Cosmetics.
Another system of currency will be present for in-game items.
2. Now if embers could also buy a subscription, this in itself won't even be bad as it allows players that invest time into the game and get cosmetics that are dropped to sell said cosmetics and be able to buy subscription time. Note, we also have NO IDEA of drop tables or what type of stuff to expect to be dropped in game.
3. Cash Shop is purely cosmetics, purely. I'm talking Dyes, Skins for outfits that already exist in ashes, skins for mounts, among other things. Factors that pose no change to the in game stats or atmosphere outside of simply being there for the cool factor.
4. Buying embers is virtually, buying costumes, with real money. You buy a $10 costume with a $10 amount of embers. Now for the mess that is "You want to buy a $5 costume but the only amounts available are a $10/$15/$20 amount of embers." Its package deals with incentives added to make you spend more.
It's made for additional profit for the company, and from a business factor you as the consumer lose nothing in the trade as you can spend the additional embers you get on either another $5 costume, or maybe some dyes for that costume you just bought.
Ohh, See like with all of the conversatoins and topics his meaning got lost to me.
But they've stated since the beginning of development that they would do a system such as this? Subscription is just to play the game without having to deal with alot of the stuff most mmo cash shops push on.
Or as a reward for a top skill in game challenge. Plus some cash shop models (WoW) allow all items to be bought through in game currency in this case might be Ember Coins.
All you are saying is Mechanics for free to play model is there making it a possiblity thus endangering the subscription model. Which equals it might be free play in the future but that is true even without Ember coins so......
In truth It is the Cash Shop itself that lends itself to free to play model not necessarily the Coins.
Personally I would rather have a company that is making a ton of money even if it is free to play. Cuase there is more material that can be implemented than they have resources to do so. For exmaple in paper and pencil games (Dungeouns and Dragons Oriental Adventures) That is one book and it presents several classes ninja samurai and monks with lots of abilities. Plus presenting that art style correctly in an MMORPG is a massive project. Basically a smaller version of some of the eastern MMORPGS out there would take millions to put in Ashes of Creation.
One more example is The Naval battles could be done to a whole new level I mean there are video games dedicated just to that so....
Any use of credits or special currency to purchase additional products is essentially "obfuscation" in that it's somewhat shadowing the real money cost of an item by selling it with the use of said credits.
This is a very old and very tried method. Those of us old enough to remember malls with arcades in them that dispensed tickets for prizes have been engaged in this before. Many of these arcades required tokens to play. A token was a set amount, like 4 for $1.00. And then you play for tickets, which are then required to purchase the prize.
Say you really want that sweet knock off light sabre that costs 1000 tickets. It probably only really costs $3.00 but you end up spending $20.00 worth of tokens to get it. But by this point we are mentally so far removed from the actual moment our real money left our hand, the value is skewed.
Violla. Profit.
Now here's why I'm ok with this system here. Instead of essentially gambling to get the correct total for the prize we want, we simply just exchange real money for another currency we can use. We then know the exchange rate and approx what it costs in real money BEFORE we purchase it, making it easy to make can informed purchase. What will be telling though is if the options to buy currency don't line up to shop prices (ie options for packages are 100, 500, 1000 Embers but shop prices are 95, 450 and 900 leaving us with change that taunts us to purchase more because we are so close to buying something else.)
Im not a big fan of item shops in general but know a company needs to run, and incoming funds are a must for that. As the products are all cosmetics, then it's something I can live with.
I was going to use the arcade token analogy @Karthos, but wasn't sure if everyone was familiar with it.
convoluted an confusing....is pretty much what embers are. Because what was inhibiting direct cash purchase in a non p2w cosmetic only* cash shop? nothing but greed and loopholes.
Ember credits are anti consumer, greasy and disrespectful to the community, whether they care about it. are unaware, desensitized towards it or don't give sh!t.
If we start talking about maximizing profits with shady but familiar business practices, then what does that really say about Intrepid?
just another business selling a dream for magic beans?
Embers* give them options and in MMOs with the same system 1 of those options was subscriber compensation when the model was dropped in favor of the cash shop* none of the other options are typically pro consumer either.
I never suggested purchasing a subscription with embers...but that is a valid option too.
I did suggest that a 1 way transfer (cash->Embers<-game gold) would be a saving grace. But if we are talking max profits then highly unlikely.
I am not angry or paranoid. People seem to be projecting emotions. I suggest reading in a calm and collected tone.
One example I can think of is that World of Warcraft has had a cash shop for years and even now that you can buy character boosts(years after release) is still sub based and not p2w... more like Play and Win, but that's a different story...
I would actually approve with a unidirectional transfer of game play currency into Embers*
That's pay to win at it's core.
While I feel unidirectional transfer of game currency -> embers would not be game breaking, I would still like to see them separate. However, as long as you can in no way turn real world money into in game currency I would be okay with it.
what i suggested was an actual viable gold sink and reward for game play...Something positive.
not just a massive harpoon.
I no longer ride hype, faith or hope trains...especially when they take the same damaged tracks over and over again.
almost 2 decades watching the MMO space make promises it couldn't or never intended to keep has led me to scrutinize the salesmen that's just the result of the industry and its practices. Intrepid can prove me wrong and that's about the only thing "great" for this MMO.
So there is just as much reason to bring a fine toothed comb to this situation.
I gave Intrepid my last benefit of doubt towards making the MMO I was pitched...well unfortunately for myself that is not 100% the case and it's diminishing. I am still confident the game will be a marginally positive outcome but it's drifting away from perfection.
I see what you are saying, but it's speculation and it will be debated as such. Peeps that prefer to have faith in Ashes not going F2P are in the same boat, it's speculation. The only difference in arguments is one side is pointing out a method that has enabled different companies to do it, and the other side is saying this company has said they won't.
If you choose to not believe them, that's on you. If I choose to believe them, and they lie, that's on me.
Your concern has been hashed out many different times as you pointed out way earlier, you're just focusing on a different reason. I am sorry that you no longer get to enjoy the anticipation of a potentially great game coming out.
But I guess sometimes when a dog bites someone, that person decides to hate all dogs.
I just have to admit that "making MMOs great again*" can't ever happen in modern times, at least in my perception.
We have gone down to many miles to the point where most have forgotten where we started.
I was hoping that this game would be for those that remember, it appears I was wrong.
I trust my dog more than I trust Steven.
I trust Steven to make his game his way...I just don't agree with everything he does.
For those that remember what?
I 'member MMO's from way back win, like browser driven crap. I have seen the great transformation everyone seems to know about. This MMO, imo, is not retro-grading itself to some previously made before game. It's not defaulting to Advanced D&D. It's not trying to recreate Morrowind. It's trying to change directions from where MMO's are heading now, encourage something new, and make a game that is fun and entertaining.
If you don't think it will be anytime soon before another great MMO comes out I am truly sorry for your cynicism. That's not going to catch on in these forums.
If you think this game is not for you, not going to be great, not what you wanted it to be, I am also sorry.
For me, a long-term gamer, this game seems like it will be truly amazing. It's replay-ability will be far better than anything before it, imo. It will feel different because it's not factions vs. factions, hurry to endgame, or I've been to this exact same city too many times to care anymore.
I 'member when things were great. I was in grade school, I didn't have a job/mortgage, my expectations weren't jaded from life experiences. Those were truly great days. Too bad this MMO didn't come out then.
I am just calling out potential pitfalls when I see them.
I am not taking a trip down memory lane or reliving my irrelevant 'back in the day' lifestyle choices.
I am not asking for PONG 2.0
Specific to the MMO genre many many wrong turns have been taken and adopted as the status quo.
I feel the genre would be more respectful to it's players far better without them.
I think a line was crossed and now we a passed the point of not return and for that I am sorry that seems to be the case.
Not saying Ashes is going to be crap or you shouldn't play it for 'x' reason.
But I am not giving Intrepid a free pass, I'll try to keep them on their toes. They are welcome to chime in and clarify any concerns raised at any point.
in the meantime I'll keep yelling at clouds...
Important fact: In your OP and throughout your replies, you continue to use random asterisks that don’t make any sense and are really distracting.