What these forums devolve into repeatedly.

ArchivedUser

Start with core concept from the developers.

Forums take image from livestreams and the fun begins.

Then people decide that since "they know better than anyone at IS could ever do."

Thank god the developers we have don't take 99 percent of what is posted here seriously. We would end up with this as our final product.


https://www.boredpanda.com/ridiculous-client-requests-photoshop-edits-nissin-cup-noodle/?utm_content=inf_10_2558_2&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=socialedge&tse_id=INF_f1f688c0060111e8ae24f1904b59aaad

ArchivedUser

I appreciate the work it took to make this.Put a smile on my face with this humor.

ArchivedUser

Deserved a "Like" from me

ArchivedUser

It's a very harsh comparison xD given the hype for the game and people just wanting to give their own opinions on the matter....but yeah there are some who seem to think they know better and that would be an accurate way to display it

ArchivedUser

I personally wouldn't have used a typical non-androgynous Asian female to start with. Not to mention the overwhelming lack of consideration to the lactose intolerant and those physically unable to ride a skateboard.

TL/DR: This add was over before it ever started.

ArchivedUser

Jerk...!! 

you just made me burst out laughing at work..my staff just looked at me like i lost my marbles

ArchivedUser

What’s the alternative? Keep all your opinions to yourself?

ArchivedUser

Look son! Experts everywhere.

ArchivedUser

So we are supposed to defer to authority? 

Remind me, what smash hit MMOs has Intrepid made in the past that gives them such authority? 

Remember the combat clicky bar they stole from 1990s golf games that has now been scrapped due to it being a terrible design idea? Maybe the community should have just kept their mouths shut and chanted, "they know what they're doing" over and over because the resident forum know-it-all says so?

To date, they have shown game play that is almost all pre-canned stuff that comes with the Unreal engine. So again, what sort of authority on MMO design have they proven? Giving a class the ability to toggle the Visible flag of a game asset to make a small floating island appear is ground breaking?

So far they have a very good idea, and we are all hoping they execute. That doesn't mean they should stop listening to players who have played decades of other successful MMOs and/or have experience in the software industry.

ArchivedUser

nscheffel said:

So we are supposed to defer to authority? 

Remind me, what smash hit MMOs has Intrepid made in the past that gives them such authority? 

Remember the combat clicky bar they stole from 1990s golf games that has now been scrapped due to it being a terrible design idea? Maybe the community should have just kept their mouths shut and chanted, "they know what they're doing" over and over because the resident forum know-it-all says so?

To date, they have shown game play that is almost all pre-canned stuff that comes with the Unreal engine. So again, what sort of authority on MMO design have they proven? Giving a class the ability to toggle the Visible flag of a game asset to make a small floating island appear is ground breaking?

So far they have a very good idea, and we are all hoping they execute. That doesn't mean they should stop listening to players who have played decades of other successful MMOs and/or have experience in the software industry.

The bar hasn't been removed btw. 

ArchivedUser

Argentdawn said:

nscheffel said:

So we are supposed to defer to authority? 

Remind me, what smash hit MMOs has Intrepid made in the past that gives them such authority? 

Remember the combat clicky bar they stole from 1990s golf games that has now been scrapped due to it being a terrible design idea? Maybe the community should have just kept their mouths shut and chanted, "they know what they're doing" over and over because the resident forum know-it-all says so?

To date, they have shown game play that is almost all pre-canned stuff that comes with the Unreal engine. So again, what sort of authority on MMO design have they proven? Giving a class the ability to toggle the Visible flag of a game asset to make a small floating island appear is ground breaking?

So far they have a very good idea, and we are all hoping they execute. That doesn't mean they should stop listening to players who have played decades of other successful MMOs and/or have experience in the software industry.

The bar hasn't been removed btw. 

LOL then I stand corrected. I didn't see it in the Pre Alpha 0 footage, but I suppose I wasn't paying close enough attention.

ArchivedUser

nscheffel said:

So we are supposed to defer to authority?

Remind me, what smash hit MMOs has Intrepid made in the past that gives them such authority? 

Intrepid as a company may not have made any other games, but the people who comprise it have been making games for a long time. At least, a lot longer than most people on the forums can say they have. But, no we should not defer to authority. We should, however respect the fact that the devs are actually experienced in how mmos, and games in general, work and how they don't work. It is true that they are listening to us, but expressing opinions that go completely against what Steven has envisioned for his game is counterproductive to the creation process. Steven knows how he wants his game to work; we are simply here to help refine and test his ideas as appropriate, not to warp his ideal game into a completely different being. If something is an outright bad idea/mechanic, his employees are competent and experienced enough to tell him so.
That being said, they are human and are vulnerable to mistakes as we all are, so there are times we, the consumer, will have to speak up and tell them they are making a mistake by using constructive criticism. Simply telling them they are wrong and/or providing a solution that goes against one of the core pillars of the game is not constructive. Just like the dev team, our creative freedom is restricted by the core vision that Steven has, so, unless Steven decides one day to change his vision, we should provide feedback based on his vision, not based on our own. If someone does not like his vision this is probably not the game for them and I am not sure why they would choose to come here to be frank. Just like if they do not like vibrant colors, silly displays, animals being made to perform tricks, and contortionists they wouldn't go to a circus.

ArchivedUser

Zastro said:

nscheffel said:

So we are supposed to defer to authority?

Remind me, what smash hit MMOs has Intrepid made in the past that gives them such authority? 

Intrepid as a company may not have made any other games, but the people who comprise it have been making games for a long time. At least, a lot longer than most people on the forums can say they have. But, no we should not defer to authority. We should, however respect the fact that the devs are actually experienced in how mmos, and games in general, work and how they don't work. It is true that they are listening to us, but expressing opinions that go completely against what Steven has envisioned for his game is counterproductive to the creation process. Steven knows how he wants his game to work; we are simply here to help refine and test his ideas as appropriate, not to warp his ideal game into a completely different being. If something is an outright bad idea/mechanic, his employees are competent and experienced enough to tell him so.
That being said, they are human and are vulnerable to mistakes as we all are, so there are times we, the consumer, will have to speak up and tell them they are making a mistake by using constructive criticism. Simply telling them they are wrong and/or providing a solution that goes against one of the core pillars of the game is not constructive. Just like the dev team, our creative freedom is restricted by the core vision that Steven has, so, unless Steven decides one day to change his vision, we should provide feedback based on his vision, not based on our own. If someone does not like his vision this is probably not the game for them and I am not sure why they would choose to come here to be frank. Just like if they do not like vibrant colors, silly displays, animals being made to perform tricks, and contortionists they wouldn't go to a circus.

LOL..Steven's vision?

Steven made some money in real estate and decided to make a MMO. He has zero qualifications for being the design lead of an MMO.

He was able to hire guys who were willing to give it a shot in a start up for a while. Their "Technical Director" was fresh out of the unemployment line because Everquest Next crashed and burned in spectacular fashion. 

I'm not saying they aren't bright, and I'm not saying they won't do a good job, but to defer to them as if they are some highly proven MMO creators is pure silliness.

For example, this notion that large guilds won't completely monopolize entire nodes and/or servers is completely naive. If one of the main "pillars" is that 2000+ casual players are going to somehow compete for control of a node against an organized guild of 1000 no-lifers, then that "pillar" is fundamentally flawed. If there aren't mechanisms in there to level the playing field, and do it effectively, this game will die without enough casual subs to keep it going. 

ArchivedUser

Milk Seafood Noodles sounds nasty

ArchivedUser

@nscheffel in an effort to not sound rude.. incorrect information, assumption, or lack of research does the forums no good. It's already been stated that guilds are capped somewhere around 300. I understand skepticism and encourage it but you can't really belittle something when you don't have the correct information. 

ArchivedUser

Argentdawn said:

@nscheffel in an effort to not sound rude.. incorrect information, assumption, or lack of research does the forums no good. It's already been stated that guilds are capped somewhere around 300. I understand skepticism and encourage it but you can't really belittle something when you don't have the correct information. 

I'm well aware of the in-game guild cap. However, there will be 1000+ person mega guilds split up into 3-4 in-game guilds...all using the same VOIP and websites...all contributing to the same goal. 

Again, a lot of the comments being thrown around are coming from a position of complete naivete about how these mega guilds function. If the devs are making design decisions with the same level of "knowledge"...PoA is in real trouble. 

If their "solution" for stopping mega guilds is simply to cap the in-game guild size...well...that's mistake #1 already and proves they have no idea what they are trying to deal with.

ArchivedUser

Argentdawn said:

nscheffel said:

So we are supposed to defer to authority? 

Remind me, what smash hit MMOs has Intrepid made in the past that gives them such authority? 

Remember the combat clicky bar they stole from 1990s golf games that has now been scrapped due to it being a terrible design idea? Maybe the community should have just kept their mouths shut and chanted, "they know what they're doing" over and over because the resident forum know-it-all says so?

To date, they have shown game play that is almost all pre-canned stuff that comes with the Unreal engine. So again, what sort of authority on MMO design have they proven? Giving a class the ability to toggle the Visible flag of a game asset to make a small floating island appear is ground breaking?

So far they have a very good idea, and we are all hoping they execute. That doesn't mean they should stop listening to players who have played decades of other successful MMOs and/or have experience in the software industry.

The bar hasn't been removed btw. 

The clicky combat combo bar is nowhere to be seen in the new IGN video. 

Weren't you the one lecturing about "incorrect information, assumption, or lack of research"?

ArchivedUser

Would reply but can't. NDA

ArchivedUser

You do not need to have experience to have vision. He is trying to create the game that he wants to play and he knows he doesn't have the skills to create it, so he hired people who can build it for him and he is sharing it with us. It is as simple as that.

And no one said they are "highly proven mmo creators" only that they are experienced mmo creators.

There is a chance mega guilds will consolidate at some point and try to control as much as possible and it is true that if a guild of considerable size is able to properly coordinate they won't be able to be overthrown by a people who aren't as coordinated. But, it is extremely hard to coordinate that many people. People complain about 40 man raids being too hard to coordinate; having a guild of 1000 would be nightmarish. Plus, 1000 person guilds will eventually collapse onto itself because of differing opinions, incompatible personalities, and the ease of access for spies. They will not stay in power long; it is naive to think that many people could play nice with each other for any long span of time.

Steven explained why it wasn't in the alpha zero footage in the last live stream. It is currently being worked on.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Would reply but can't. NDA

No worries. NDA will be lifted soon.

I'm not sure what you'll do when you no longer feel special on these forums, but we will welcome the new flow of information.

ArchivedUser

I will always feel special. But thank you for noticing. One day you too will take the time to actually go through all of the information available since day one and can choose to help those who are looking and refute those that post bullshit that they can't back up "because I know better." 

ArchivedUser

Sorry for the delay. Wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid... For the sake of not looking like an ass for my previous lecture here is the sause. 

http://massivelyop.com/2018/01/19/ashes-of-creation-team-answers-tons-of-fan-questions-gives-a-preview-of-the-underrealm/

January 18 Livestream at 22:48

Basically they chose to widen the active point and hide the bar for alpha 0. It may not appear in the game as a bar but ATM the mechanic is intended to stay in game. 

ArchivedUser

Argentdawn said:

Sorry for the delay. Wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid... For the sake of not looking like an ass for my previous lecture here is the sause. 

http://massivelyop.com/2018/01/19/ashes-of-creation-team-answers-tons-of-fan-questions-gives-a-preview-of-the-underrealm/

January 18 Livestream at 22:48

Basically they chose to widen the active point and hide the bar for alpha 0. It may not appear in the game as a bar but ATM the mechanic is intended to stay in game. 

I'm glad they listened to the community on this one.

And I'm also glad the community didn't just sit back silently and defer to authority as the resident forum know-it-all suggests we should.

ArchivedUser

This thread be proving itself.

ArchivedUser

In all fairness, it appears that the original post was an unveiled jab at a particular group within the community. What is the point though? Serious question, the more I see of the interactions within the so called community, the less interest I hold in it.

I am sure it was meant to be funny, but beyond the tactless qualities, I fail to see much humor. Anyway, I invested in the talent behind the team, experience of the head of the company is rather irrelevant. Look at the head of Visionary Realms, he is a lawyer, and that project looks just as promising. 

One thing that time in the military taught me is that people can always rise to a challenge. That is not to say that we need to blindly trust and not ask questions along the way. Regardless, it is ultimately the development teams vision, not ours. 

Cheers 

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

This thread be proving itself.

Its proving that polarizing discussions about ideas within the community, that may not necessarily be in line with the developer's thoughts, bring new information and perspective for the cultivation of evermore ideas*.

*Other than the OP's original post and subsequent replies which prove to be an exercise in elitist rhetoric, free-thought shaming, and disregard for open discussion.

ArchivedUser

You're just pissed because I called you out for constantly necroing your own threads. Put on your big boy trunks if you want to pee in the pool.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

You're just pissed because I called you out for constantly necroing your own threads. Put on your big boy trunks if you want to pee in the pool.

I genuinely don't like your post and I'd venture a guess that I wouldn't like you in person either.

ArchivedUser

@nscheffel I wouldn't take the jab personally @VitaKorp3n does bring up a good point and I will leave it at that. If anything it is in poor taste in my opinion targeting people that isn't over hyped and really doesn't add anything to the discussion of the game.

As for your criticisms on Steven himself I have to argue against your claims that he is "disqualified" for this undertaking. He might not have shit when it comes to "qualifications", but in all honesty I respect any person that is trying to do something out of passion. You should seriously put some thought into what you said, the fact that he is putting his money where his mouth is, is in my opinion praise worthy.

I am surprised that you are still living in the 2007-2015 era thinking that mmo's are a cash cow. I am unsure about others, but I am sure that it is common knowledge that is is a money loser, as the investors seems to believe so if you haven't noticed the recent influx of kickstarter mmo funding. Not trying to be hostile, but I feel like it was a bit too excessive with some of your comments. 

As for your great fears in regards to mega guilds I do offer this advice. Maybe, you should try to open a thread and we can discuss about it. Maybe I am ignorant here, but I was under the impression we can discuss topics in a cordial manner in regards to some of games features which was the purpose of a forum I think. I feel some people (shout out) @McStackerson, @memmi, @Granthor, and even yourself has opinions that I like to reflect while doing my walks for my food.

We all come from multiple mmo backgrounds and so we all have different opinions, but at least we are passionate about the mmorpg genre I think, since we are all are on a forum talking about a game releasing at best 2021?

ArchivedUser

nscheffel said:

Argentdawn said:

Sorry for the delay. Wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid... For the sake of not looking like an ass for my previous lecture here is the sause. 

http://massivelyop.com/2018/01/19/ashes-of-creation-team-answers-tons-of-fan-questions-gives-a-preview-of-the-underrealm/

January 18 Livestream at 22:48

Basically they chose to widen the active point and hide the bar for alpha 0. It may not appear in the game as a bar but ATM the mechanic is intended to stay in game. 

I'm glad they listened to the community on this one.

And I'm also glad the community didn't just sit back silently and defer to authority as the resident forum know-it-all suggests we should.

 Asking for the QTE bar to change is a good example of the kind of constructive  criticism we should be giving. The implementation of the idea Intrepid were going for was bad, so we spoke out for it to be changed. The idea behind the bar is remaining, but its implementation will, hopefully, be better.
An example of  non-constructive criticism would be something along the lines of: "Having to 'specialize' into a specific artisan profession (i.e mining, weapon smithing, alchemy, etc) is not casual friendly. Intrepid should make it so that one character can do everything". This would go against the idea of cooperation among the in-game community that Steven is wanting to happen. It would be okay to offer criticism by providing a solution if said solution still adhered to the idea of cooperation between players, but professing a solution that goes against the idea is not helpful to the devs. It is easy to think of new ideas, I am sure Intrepid does it all the time, but thinking of good ways to implement a specific idea is much harder. I feel like our job should be helping them find good ways of implementing Steven's ideas.

ArchivedUser

Unknown may be poking hornet nests but his point is valid. We all came her for a reason... That's what IS and Steven showed and offered us. To tear into game design without first at least testing it is irresponsible. 

I backed early and I backed high because I saw something I liked. The simple answer is we are never going to please everyone so don't try. I hope IS sticks to their guns and produces the game they intended. 

I haven't liked the proposed idea for corruption openly because of exploits or flaws I can see but have decided to let it roll for now until it's tested because any discussion turns into "carebears and gankers" instead of the in between.

IS has something many companies don't... And that's a direction THEY want to go. Hopefully all suggestions are taken with a grain of salt and in the end weighed against IS original agenda .