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What these forums devolve into repeatedly.
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I also feel it works like this
Steven: Guys, here is only a small portion of the game that we still have numerous months before we even release it to you in an alpha format. Realize, we are following a traditional Alpha into Beta testing so things will continue to develop.
Ashes Fans: Thank you. Can we have leaks? Can you tell us more? Can we have?
Steven: All in good time.
Random Person Nobody has heard of: The way Ashes is doing this sucks they need to change.
Ashes Fans: But we don't know how they are going to do X yet.
Random Person: But I know that what they are going to sucks. My infinite number of years in the MMO industry which is exactly 0, my number of years as a project manager on anything more complicated than the mop bucket is 0, I've never had more than $29.74 in my bank account but I know how to tell a guy who's putting MILLIONS of dollars of his own money into the project that what he is doing is going to suck and he should do it my ass backwards way even though I have no empirical data proving anything because I was once rated the #1 Rogue on some WoW Server during Season 1 of Arenas when everyone else I was fighting in the finals all DC'd
Ashes Fans: Who's this guy?
Random Person: This game is going to fail because...
Kandy: Like your life
DarkScarletMage: Wow, Savage Kandy. Savage
Kandy: Whatever
Random Guy: YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME BECAUSE I'M MAKING UP STATISTICS TO FIT MY ARGUMENT AS I GO AND YOU'VE SAID I CAN SELL SUBS WITH GOLD AND I CAN P2W, AND I CAN BUY MOUNTS, AND I CAN GIVE STEVEN $100,000 AND I CAN HAVE A DRAGON
Unknown System Error: Here let me try to help you with some examples of why none of what you have heard is true. ((provides several links and images of proof))
Random Guy: BUT MY ARGUMENT OF BULLSHIT IS VALID AND I'M GOING TO PROVIDE NO PROOF AND I'M GOING TO SAY THE GAME SHOULD BE FULL LOOT DROP BECAUSE I HAVE MY DADDY'S CREDIT CARD AND I CAN P2W AND YOU WON'T LET ME
Unknown System Error: Here, let me try to help you with some more examples
Random Guy: RAAAAAAAGE
Jahlon: Unknown, who's this guy?
Unknown System Error: Dude, all you.
Random Guy: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE
Jahlon: Dude, go make $30M of your own money and start a gaming company and do these great things. Here, let me give you a long list of facts and actual statistics not pulled from a unicorns ass. ((insert way too much text and examples))
Random Guy: BUT MY ARGUUUUUMENT!!! <<sickening thud, some squishy noises and then silence>>
[The rest of this story has been redacted to protect the guilty from prosecution in the state of California, the world court, and in the temple of the sandal God. It does however explain why Jahlon is often missing from the forums and discord for several days and why these people are never heard from again. You fill in the blanks]
DISCLAIMER: This has been a satirical work of fiction from the twisted mind of Jahlon. Jahlon is not sick, calling him sick indicates there is some sort of cure. Honestly, if you can't figure out that this was a joke, then, well, remember thud, squish, silence. The painted face you see in the darkness....is me.
It's all opinion. Some of us feel like IS will have lot's of feedback and change during the Alpha's and Beta's. We would like to see their vision before voicing concern. Some, imo, seem to think their opinion is somehow the majority and if IS doesn't do what they say it will fail.
For me, I am here because I have found way more positives from IS and Ashes than I found negatives. Sometimes I think some posters are here with way more negatives than positives, so I wonder why they are here. If something is heading in a direction you don't like, and it's not the only ride in town, why hop on and complain about the way it is going?
I understand honest, critical, feedback. I have never called someone out as a hater or told them to go find a different game if this one is not their style. However, when I defend IS's viewpoint I often get harassed by the naysayers, "you're blindly following along," "you must have dropped major dollars," "you must be paid by the studio."
No, I just like what they are doing and that's why I am here.
I don't have time to go to places I don't like and complain because it's not the way I would do it.
I for one think that everyone wants a great game, yet we all have different opinions about what that looks like. I thought that is what a forum is all about. I see zero reason to not listen to all voices, even those you do not agree with. It takes all kinds to make a community.
The more opinions the merrier. I do not see the Developers moving too far away from their vision either way. I just wish people could be nicer to each other.
Then again I'm gonna be a bard/bard main, so I'm a lover not a fighter!
I get the humor from the post though because it is true in alot of ways for *any* of the forums I've seen, and yes it is funny
With that said - by all means post away thoughts, ideas, visions, wish lists, etc. On occasion it does get taken up to the powers that be and implemented when the resources to do so come along. To save any disappointment or over -expectation....just don't count on it
That said. Most times seeing something is not the same as having the Hands-on experience. So people should try to contain their criticism until they can actually test for themselves and feel if they really don't like it or feel that something is missing. I think this has to do with the same reasons why MMORPG is not a big genre with the streaming community it's, most of the time, nowhere near as fun to watch as it is to play. This is a Genre that you have to experience for yourself to know if you like it or not.
Basically Criticism and suggestions are a good thing but If there is too much unfiltered input it will become noise in the background and the good critiques and ideas will just be ignored along with the noise. Too much of anything is a bad thing.
Those mechanics can only be tested through effective targeted testing both internally, and with their chosen group of testers. Eventually I imagine we will see systems change and evolve, but make no mistake that it will be done so within the confines of the original vision (hopefully).
Mind you, this is my own opinion. People in the community may or may not have experience within the realm of game development. That obvious statement aside, theorycrafting should be encouraged as long as it truly is just that.
I am curious what you define as "constructive" criticism @UnknownSystemError. The idea of something being "constructive" is to build upon, or in this case build someone up.
Critical thinking should always be encouraged, but there appears to be little of that within the forums in this regard. I applaud you on your passion for this project, but would recommend you take a look at community members who try to help without insults. Sarcasm is rarely translated well online and often times results in appearing tactless or worse.
Cheers
That's all this thread was started to do...pump the ego of a guy whop has nothing else going on in his life.
There are many things going on with this game that anyone who has played any large scale PvP game can see will cause problems. Duping, mega guilds monopolizing entire nodes/servers, groups of tanks chain stunning combatants, etc, etc. All foreseeable. All avoidable.
All likely to make it in the game unchecked due to comments like the OP.
But on topic, the whole point of them being transparent is to collect feedback. I can understand the frustration of having people post ideas that seem to go against the games core design but their isn't really a good way to filter opinions. Forums have also felt pretty dead so it's kind of nice to have something to talk about. At the end of the day, If they are going to adopt an idea that hurts the game because of a random post, we are already in trouble. Have a little bit more faith that the team who showed us this cool concept are going to follow it.
I'm saying its too soon for people to have constructive feedback. You can't give feedBACK on something you haven't even seen yet.
When I sit down for lunch at a restaurant I don't say "I think that burgers are the best food for lunch so this place should server burgers and this place sucks because they don't serve burgers" when I"m in a Chinese place. That would be random WTF are you talking about feedback and Mr. Zhang would look at me funny.
Constructive feedback would be "Mr. Zhang, the last few times we've come in here the Pepper Steak has been off. Just wanted you to know" Or, "Hey Mr. Zhang, you might get more business if you added a few non Chinese menu items to the menu for those people that don't like Chinese"
I'm going to use the example of full-loot drop (one that has come up more than once)
Coming to a game that has already said they are doing consumable loot drop, but not full loot drop, and saying you think the game should be full loot drop is you expressing your opinion in direct contrast to the developers vision.
You want full loot drop? Go play Albion. Go play Crowfall. Go watch the development of Fractured. All those games want to go in that direction.
Saying you think the game needs full loot drop is not constructive feedback. Its a wishlist.
When we finally get to the part where we can test consumable drop rate that would be the time to say "Its probably too low" or "Its way to high" and you balance this from both the victims and the robbers. When all the victims say its too high, and all the robbers say its too low, its probably right. But when you have victims says "yeah I don't like it, but it should be higher" or the robbers saying "Yeah, I think I'm getting a little too much" that is responsible play-testing.
There are many things going on with this game that anyone who has played any large scale PvP game can see will obviously cause problems. Duping being untracked, mega guilds monopolizing entire nodes/servers, groups of tanks chain stunning combatants, etc, etc. All foreseeable. All avoidable.
All likely to make it in the game unchecked due to comments like the OP.
Isn't that what online anonymous forums are for?
I think the Alpha and Beta users that offer feedback will prove most viable. Not that other opinions are not, but sometimes they are ahead of what's going on. Why criticize something, or suggest additional things, or suggest removing things, from something that isn't at the point where IS says "hey everyone, try this and let us know."
They didn't open up a forum and ask everyone to define what they think would be best about an MMORPG so they can build that. They started with a vision and want to put forth that vision. Again, not everyone that likes their vision are "swallowing it whole" because "ohhh Ashes." Some of us like what they are doing, and that's why we are here.
In this train of thought, it was very smart of IS to allow non-backers access to the Alphas. I can't confirm that, but assuming the drawings were random I think at least one person would be a non-backer. If not, hopefully they are in the Alpha-1 +.
Thank all of the gods that we never let someone that hasn't proven to be super successful at doing something to do that thing. Can you imagine what this world would be like if we allowed amateurs to do new things without shouting witch!
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/26256/separate-user-client#latest
Or your very first forum gem. Last comment in June 2017, necroed yesterday.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/26197/pvp-drop-mechanics#latest
But like a serial killer, you now have a taste for it, and when no one shows you the affirmation you desire, the periods between are getting shorter. 6 days before you couldn't try to push your post back up on the list.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/37966/the-dial-system#latest
And your latest gem that is receiving no love. Could be since they already talked about telegraph abilities in a previous livestream. But why let prior knowledge get in the way of a good mental enema. I give it three more days before you try to kick it back up the Recent Activity list, barring pity posts from those that read about it here.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/38072/telegraph-abilities-and-hybrid-combat#latest
So lets get a recount. 5 posts. 3 necroed. And one pending. So I will go with constant. Keep banging away at that keyboard. You'll get there eventually.
CHEERS!!!
I know, we'll take a poll!