It's an RPG. Character behavior should just be character behavior - that's what roleplaying is all about. Corruption should not be account-wide just like gender choice and racial choice and primary archetype choice should not be account-wide. Nor should diplomacy and NPC rep should not be account-wide.
Actors aren't arrested and tried for playing murderers or rapists on TV or in movies. Why should players be penalized for gaining Corruption rather than the character that accrued the Corruption?
Second point:There would be a way of stopping people from just "logging onto another character" to get rid of the corruption of it was account wide and that is locking the "lowering of corruption" to the character that earned it. This way the entire account is corrupted until you decide to get rid of corruption with the character that built it up. If corruption worked this way I would say account wide corruption, YES PLEASE! DO IT NOW!
This. ^^^
I voted yes for one reason: If there is a corruption system, then the corruption should apply for all so you're not just attacking and running to an alt to hide. Roleplay of characters isn't a valid excuse imo. I was going to suggest to lock the corruption to the character that started the corruption, and all other alts would be corrupted as well until the initiator ended it. I see someone got to that before me.
With that said: I would be perfectly happy without a corruption system at all except for toxic situations (repeated kills of the same person, killing people way lower level) If you really want to go by roleplay and "breaking immersion".....well then there wouldn't be a reduction in stats at all just because you killed someone. So, my strength, stamina, health et cetera all were magically zapped to nihl? That's not roleplaying. Want to mark me on the map so bounty hunters can see me because I'm a 'murderer'? Okay. I get that. That's roleplaying.
Want to give me a penalty for griefing and such? Absolutely. I don't like bullies. (Unless of course that's the point of the game and the roleplay requires it--such as arma 3 which is literally roleplaying cartels and such) Generally though, bullying has no place in MMO's, and just makes for a toxic environment no one wants to be in, and should be discouraged at all costs.
Again, I don't think 'magically zapped to nihl' is valid terminology. We know the debuff will start with any level of corruption and then be 'gained' by more green-killing. If everything was immediately zapped to nihl, or the initial debuff was huge, what would be the point in it growing with activities devs are trying to curb?
Second point:There would be a way of stopping people from just "logging onto another character" to get rid of the corruption of it was account wide and that is locking the "lowering of corruption" to the character that earned it. This way the entire account is corrupted until you decide to get rid of corruption with the character that built it up. If corruption worked this way I would say account wide corruption, YES PLEASE! DO IT NOW!
This. ^^^
I voted yes for one reason: If there is a corruption system, then the corruption should apply for all so you're not just attacking and running to an alt to hide. Roleplay of characters isn't a valid excuse imo. I was going to suggest to lock the corruption to the character that started the corruption, and all other alts would be corrupted as well until the initiator ended it. I see someone got to that before me.
With that said: I would be perfectly happy without a corruption system at all except for toxic situations (repeated kills of the same person, killing people way lower level) If you really want to go by roleplay and "breaking immersion".....well then there wouldn't be a reduction in stats at all just because you killed someone. So, my strength, stamina, health et cetera all were magically zapped to nihl? That's not roleplaying. Want to mark me on the map so bounty hunters can see me because I'm a 'murderer'? Okay. I get that. That's roleplaying.
Want to give me a penalty for griefing and such? Absolutely. I don't like bullies. (Unless of course that's the point of the game and the roleplay requires it--such as arma 3 which is literally roleplaying cartels and such) Generally though, bullying has no place in MMO's, and just makes for a toxic environment no one wants to be in, and should be discouraged at all costs.
They can't really run to an alt because far as we know corruption does not run out regardless. Also this messes up RPers.
Lol I think you took what I said too literally. It was rhetoric being used that was intended to showcase the same line of thinking pertaining to role play.
I’ll reiterate: If people use role play as the excuse for not having account wide penalties because it breaks immersion—then how does having corruption at all fit into that narrative? So, I’m supposed to role play that some magical force magically penalized my strengths in any way whatsoever because I’m a murderer? I can see how the bounty hunter aspect would fit, because you would indeed be wanted, and hunted for being a murderer. I wouldn’t be miraculously weakened by such things though.
They could run to an alt. As if it were me, I would log to alts, and bring out my murderer during lesser playtimes or when I see another lowbie I wanted to pick on, then log him right back out. I couldn’t hide forever. I could keep that guy hidden for a very long time terrorizing by doing such things, though. Only log him in to kill during lesser populated hours.
As for—well, they could always just make a new char. Yeah, all the more reason to have it account wide. I touched on low level killing and repeated killing in that post already, so I won’t again.
Easy, What if they want a RP Char and a char that's not RP? also nobody will want to experiment so Corruption will be pointless then because they'll be rare chars so bounty hunters would be pointless.
You’re still avoiding the entire point of my post.... If people use role play as the excuse for not having account wide penalties because it breaks immersion—then how does having corruption in any way fit into that same role play narrative? Are you pretending the gods above are punishing you with weakened stats because you killed someone? Not likely.
No, you didn’t. Lol I don’t want to role play corruption. That’s the point. It doesn’t make sense from a role play perspective.
I can understand punishment for griefing. Ie: killing much lower levels, repeated killings et cetera because bullying needs to be deterred—but to have to shoe horn corruption into a role play aspect in other scenarios doesn’t make sense from a role playing perspective.
No, you didn’t. Lol I don’t want to role play corruption. That’s the point. It doesn’t make sense from a role play perspective.
I can understand punishment for griefing. Ie: killing much lower levels, repeated killings et cetera because bullying needs to be deterred—but to have to shoe horn corruption into a role play aspect in other scenarios doesn’t make sense from a role playing perspective.
Thats your opinion, see when I look at a corrupted player I see "Murderer" you see "Corrupted". You say it has no RP Relevance but I Disagree, you want Corruption acct wide, should combatant be acct wide?? As I said if you punish all chars on acct nobody will test things or RP as a murderer. In other games, /yes combat, should that be acct wide? Making Corruption acct wide while no other char doings acct wide seems ridiculous.
No, you didn’t. Lol I don’t want to role play corruption. That’s the point. It doesn’t make sense from a role play perspective.
I can understand punishment for griefing. Ie: killing much lower levels, repeated killings et cetera because bullying needs to be deterred—but to have to shoe horn corruption into a role play aspect in other scenarios doesn’t make sense from a role playing perspective.
Thats your opinion, see when I look at a corrupted player I see "Murderer" you see "Corrupted". You say it has no RP Relevance but I Disagree, you want Corruption acct wide, should combatant be acct wide?? As I said if you punish all chars on acct nobody will test things or RP as a murderer. In other games, /yes combat, should that be acct wide? Making Corruption acct wide while no other char doings acct wide seems ridiculous.
I’ll go through this again, and I touched on that in the OP. You see murderer. You could see a murderer by having it marked on the map for bounty hunters to come find. That makes sense from a role playing aspect. Not that you’re magically weakened because you did murder someone. So you’re saying it shouldn’t be account wide, because people wouldn’t want to test that aspect? I disagree. There’s going to be plenty of murderers no matter the cost. There’s always a plethora of people out there willing to devote themselves to that cause. There were several guilds recruiting for that very thing during the giant discord guild recruiting event hosted by @Sarumonin . It’s called consequences for choices. You can get rid of it by taking your punishment. Not going to hide on an alt until you think it’s safe to come out again during lesser populated hours to kill again and ‘role play your murderer’
No, you didn’t. Lol I don’t want to role play corruption. That’s the point. It doesn’t make sense from a role play perspective.
I can understand punishment for griefing. Ie: killing much lower levels, repeated killings et cetera because bullying needs to be deterred—but to have to shoe horn corruption into a role play aspect in other scenarios doesn’t make sense from a role playing perspective.
Thats your opinion, see when I look at a corrupted player I see "Murderer" you see "Corrupted". You say it has no RP Relevance but I Disagree, you want Corruption acct wide, should combatant be acct wide?? As I said if you punish all chars on acct nobody will test things or RP as a murderer. In other games, /yes combat, should that be acct wide? Making Corruption acct wide while no other char doings acct wide seems ridiculous.
I’ll go through this again, and I touched in that in the OP. You see murderer. You could see a murderer by having it marked on the map for bounty hunters to come find. That makes sense from a role playing aspect. Not that you’re magically weakened because you did murder someone. So you’re saying it shouldn’t be account wide, because people wouldn’t want to test that aspect? I disagree. There’s going to be plenty of murderers no matter the cost. There’s always a plethora of people out there willing to devote themselves to that cause. There were several guilds recruiting for that very thing during the giant discord guild recruiting event hosted by @Saruman. It’s called consequences for choices. You can get rid of it by taking your punishment. Not going to hide on an alt until you think it’s safe to come out again during lesser populated hours to kill again and ‘role play your murderer’
Again this is where we differ, you think ALL Chars on acct should be punished, you say that there will always be corrupted players regardless, yes i agree but far fewer if all chars are punished for 1 chars doings.
You say there will always be that player devoted to their cause, you know how expensive that will be? IS Can't assume that that player is out there, even still this lowers the corrupted players impact on Verra. Corrupted players and BH's have a role to play in Verra. Imagine, make a char just devoted to Corruption, he's lvl 15 and your main who is lvl 50 and awesome gear is not a murder but yet faces same penalty? I Fail to see why? IS wants to punish char not player.
First, if your murderer is level 15 and your main is level 50–this would mean that you specifically are role playing a murderer to only kill newbie players running around and you deserve what you get. Also, I never said it should be the same punishment for each character on the account. I said you shouldn’t be able to hide on an alt. You could implement this in a variety of ways. Lock questing / progression advancement et cetera on other chars until the corruption is taken care of is the first thing off the top of my head. You shouldn’t just be able to run to an alt. The point of the corruption system is supposed to make you think about your choices. Consequences for your actions. Hiding on an alt defers that.
First, if your murderer is level 15 and your main is level 50–this would mean that you specifically are role playing a murderer to only kill newbie players running around and you deserve what you get. Also, I never said it should be the same punishment for each character on the account. I said you shouldn’t be able to hide on an alt. You could implement this in a variety of ways. Lock questing / progression advancement et cetera on other chars until the corruption is taken care of is the first thing off the top of my head. You shouldn’t just be able to run to an alt. The point of the corruption system is supposed to make you think about your choices. Consequences for your actions. Hiding on an alt defers that.
Who cares if a player creates a char just to attack newbies? Newbies won't even drop gear or anything...also Making a char just to get corrupted is no life lol, imagine how hard is to lvl?? how many ppl you'll piss off?? Corrupted players can be attacked by anyone without penalty, now imagine that acct wide? Even if punishment changes per char...A Good char shouldn't be punished because of a bad chars doings.
Who cares if a player creates a char just to attack newbies? Newbies won't even have good gear to drop...also Making a char just to get corrupted is no life lol, imagine how hard is to lvl?? how many ppl you'll piss off?? Corrupted players can be attacked by anyone without penalty, now imagine that acct wide? Even if punishment changes per char...A Good char shouldn't be punished because of a bad chars doings.
Aaaaaand this is where our conversation ends. I in no way, shape, or form can condone attacking newbies. Especially if you have a main, and you’re just out to “role play a bad guy” against lowbies that are just starting the game. 🤦🏼♂️
Who cares if a player creates a char just to attack newbies? Newbies won't even have good gear to drop...also Making a char just to get corrupted is no life lol, imagine how hard is to lvl?? how many ppl you'll piss off?? Corrupted players can be attacked by anyone without penalty, now imagine that acct wide? Even if punishment changes per char...A Good char shouldn't be punished because of a bad chars doings.
Aaaaaand this is where our conversation ends. I in no way, shape, or form can condone attacking newbies. Especially if you have a main, and you’re just out to “role play a bad guy” against lowbies that are just starting the game. 🤦🏼♂️
Neither do I, but show them how you feel in game, kill the corruption, simple fix.
Nope, can’t. Remember. That’s just their alt. They now have logged off, and went back to their main. Free to login when less people are in the area to get them to pick on noobs again later. 🙄
@SaeyoPrayers It's a fantasy environment. In Fable (and other games) the more 'evil' (corrupt in Ashes) you are the more your character changes. So, if I play a corrupt character I can RP that he is being warped by evil, muscles tightening, reflexes dimming, etc.
Just because you can't come up with a way to RP that doesn't mean RP's can't. Also, RP is not the only reason for corruption not being account wide. If someone is having a bad day and just want's to be an ass for a few hours why not let them? Should all their characters suffer because every so often the player wants to kill other players that don't fight back?
One of the benefits of corruption not being account wide is it allows for those PvP players that pick the wrong green, one or two shot them before they can flag (if they were) and are dead before the PvP player stops the initial attack. Maybe they didn't mean to kill the green, should all their other characters be accountable?
If you are going to make corruption account wide the next logical step is linking accounts of players that have multiple accounts. Sure, one account might be for a child/sibling/spouse/parent/etc. but if one of them is going to gain corruption shouldn't all of them? If you can punish all of player A's characters because of one shouldn't you be able to punish all of player A's characters on all of their accounts?
I mean, if all of the characters should suffer because of one, and they potentially have characters on other accounts, shouldn't those characters be punished too?
I see the motive for wanting this, but imo is punishes and reduces PvP far too much. Why risk any corruption for any reward if every character you have is punished. Risk vs. reward is a key aspect of this game. Why remove it at all?
FYI for those that don't know, I am a PvE player, in favor of corruption, and usually on the opposite side of Gothix and Noanni which are known PvP players that are not in favor of the current corruption mechanic.
If people use role play as the excuse for not having account wide penalties because it breaks immersion—then how does having corruption at all fit into that narrative? So, I’m supposed to role play that some magical force magically penalized my strengths in any way whatsoever because I’m a murderer?
Yes. Corruption for killing non-combatants is part of the lore. Apparently, the gods or some other magical force on Verra curse people who kill non-combatants with Corruption. Which is one of the reasons that tracking people with Corruption will be one of the Cleric's utility abilities.
I can see how the bounty hunter aspect would fit, because you would indeed be wanted, and hunted for being a murderer. I wouldn’t be miraculously weakened by such things though.
You will be "miraculously" weakened by killing non-combatants.
It's technically a curse, though.
They could run to an alt. As if it were me, I would log to alts, and bring out my murderer during lesser playtimes or when I see another lowbie I wanted to pick on, then log him right back out. I couldn’t hide forever. I could keep that guy hidden for a very long time terrorizing by doing such things, though. Only log him in to kill during lesser populated hours.
If I enjoyed griefing other players, I would be highly motivated by the Corruption mechanic to create a horde of zombie alts and kill as many green artisans as I could find. Gain as much Corruption and death penalties as possible until the zombie falls to pieces due to stat decay.
That would be tons of fun.
Which really has nothing to do with my heroic character(s).
If a player is breaking the rules of the game or behaving in a manner that warrants banning - ban the player.
But, account-wide Corruption is as absurd as suggesting that Will Truman has to be in prison on Will and Grace because Eric McCormack played a murderer in a summer movie.
Everyone needs to keep in mind that Corruption is more than just a punishment for PKing. Corruption is there primarily to balance the incentive of farming players for loot. If left unchecked, the game would be virtually unplayable for PvEers, as they themselves would become the farm (think nature - carnivores, herbivores etc. except the carnivores never get full).
Just remember that the goal isn't to punish those who participate in World PvP outside the designed systems. Corruption guarantees your character a costly death. If it were account-wide, or even just server-wide, the result would make it literally never worth PKing, and that's not the goal of Intrepid.
If it were, the game wouldn't be much of a PvX game, would it? Corruption already favors PvE, from what I've seen, although it all depends on how the numbers pan out. It treats every kill as an effort to steal or harass, simply because a numerical system cannot easily tell the difference between meaningful PvP and PKing for loot. The incentive for doing nothing is challenging to work around, and can easily be abused.
I don't mean to bring the other Corruption thread into here, but I feel like it's necessary to take the above into consideration.
Comments
Character behavior should just be character behavior - that's what roleplaying is all about.
Corruption should not be account-wide just like gender choice and racial choice and primary archetype choice should not be account-wide. Nor should diplomacy and NPC rep should not be account-wide.
Actors aren't arrested and tried for playing murderers or rapists on TV or in movies.
Why should players be penalized for gaining Corruption rather than the character that accrued the Corruption?
I don't see them making it account wide at all, but in the event they do luckily I will have more than one account.
With that said: I would be perfectly happy without a corruption system at all except for toxic situations (repeated kills of the same person, killing people way lower level) If you really want to go by roleplay and "breaking immersion".....well then there wouldn't be a reduction in stats at all just because you killed someone. So, my strength, stamina, health et cetera all were magically zapped to nihl? That's not roleplaying. Want to mark me on the map so bounty hunters can see me because I'm a 'murderer'? Okay. I get that. That's roleplaying.
Want to give me a penalty for griefing and such? Absolutely. I don't like bullies. (Unless of course that's the point of the game and the roleplay requires it--such as arma 3 which is literally roleplaying cartels and such) Generally though, bullying has no place in MMO's, and just makes for a toxic environment no one wants to be in, and should be discouraged at all costs.
It was rhetoric being used that was intended to showcase the same line of thinking pertaining to role play.
I’ll reiterate: If people use role play as the excuse for not having account wide penalties because it breaks immersion—then how does having corruption at all fit into that narrative? So, I’m supposed to role play that some magical force magically penalized my strengths in any way whatsoever because I’m a murderer?
I can see how the bounty hunter aspect would fit, because you would indeed be wanted, and hunted for being a murderer. I wouldn’t be miraculously weakened by such things though.
They could run to an alt. As if it were me, I would log to alts, and bring out my murderer during lesser playtimes or when I see another lowbie I wanted to pick on, then log him right back out. I couldn’t hide forever. I could keep that guy hidden for a very long time terrorizing by doing such things, though. Only log him in to kill during lesser populated hours.
As for—well, they could always just make a new char.
Yeah, all the more reason to have it account wide.
I touched on low level killing and repeated killing in that post already, so I won’t again.
If people use role play as the excuse for not having account wide penalties because it breaks immersion—then how does having corruption in any way fit into that same role play narrative? Are you pretending the gods above are punishing you with weakened stats because you killed someone? Not likely.
I can understand punishment for griefing. Ie: killing much lower levels, repeated killings et cetera because bullying needs to be deterred—but to have to shoe horn corruption into a role play aspect in other scenarios doesn’t make sense from a role playing perspective.
So you’re saying it shouldn’t be account wide, because people wouldn’t want to test that aspect? I disagree. There’s going to be plenty of murderers no matter the cost. There’s always a plethora of people out there willing to devote themselves to that cause. There were several guilds recruiting for that very thing during the giant discord guild recruiting event hosted by @Sarumonin
. It’s called consequences for choices. You can get rid of it by taking your punishment. Not going to hide on an alt until you think it’s safe to come out again during lesser populated hours to kill again and ‘role play your murderer’
You say there will always be that player devoted to their cause, you know how expensive that will be? IS Can't assume that that player is out there, even still this lowers the corrupted players impact on Verra. Corrupted players and BH's have a role to play in Verra. Imagine, make a char just devoted to Corruption, he's lvl 15 and your main who is lvl 50 and awesome gear is not a murder but yet faces same penalty? I Fail to see why? IS wants to punish char not player.
Lock questing / progression advancement et cetera on other chars until the corruption is taken care of is the first thing off the top of my head.
You shouldn’t just be able to run to an alt. The point of the corruption system is supposed to make you think about your choices. Consequences for your actions. Hiding on an alt defers that.
It's a fantasy environment. In Fable (and other games) the more 'evil' (corrupt in Ashes) you are the more your character changes. So, if I play a corrupt character I can RP that he is being warped by evil, muscles tightening, reflexes dimming, etc.
Just because you can't come up with a way to RP that doesn't mean RP's can't.
Also, RP is not the only reason for corruption not being account wide. If someone is having a bad day and just want's to be an ass for a few hours why not let them?
Should all their characters suffer because every so often the player wants to kill other players that don't fight back?
One of the benefits of corruption not being account wide is it allows for those PvP players that pick the wrong green, one or two shot them before they can flag (if they were) and are dead before the PvP player stops the initial attack. Maybe they didn't mean to kill the green, should all their other characters be accountable?
If you are going to make corruption account wide the next logical step is linking accounts of players that have multiple accounts. Sure, one account might be for a child/sibling/spouse/parent/etc. but if one of them is going to gain corruption shouldn't all of them? If you can punish all of player A's characters because of one shouldn't you be able to punish all of player A's characters on all of their accounts?
I mean, if all of the characters should suffer because of one, and they potentially have characters on other accounts, shouldn't those characters be punished too?
I see the motive for wanting this, but imo is punishes and reduces PvP far too much. Why risk any corruption for any reward if every character you have is punished. Risk vs. reward is a key aspect of this game. Why remove it at all?
FYI for those that don't know, I am a PvE player, in favor of corruption, and usually on the opposite side of Gothix and Noanni which are known PvP players that are not in favor of the current corruption mechanic.
Apparently, the gods or some other magical force on Verra curse people who kill non-combatants with Corruption. Which is one of the reasons that tracking people with Corruption will be one of the Cleric's utility abilities.
You will be "miraculously" weakened by killing non-combatants.
It's technically a curse, though.
If I enjoyed griefing other players, I would be highly motivated by the Corruption mechanic to create a horde of zombie alts and kill as many green artisans as I could find. Gain as much Corruption and death penalties as possible until the zombie falls to pieces due to stat decay.
That would be tons of fun.
Which really has nothing to do with my heroic character(s).
If a player is breaking the rules of the game or behaving in a manner that warrants banning - ban the player.
But, account-wide Corruption is as absurd as suggesting that Will Truman has to be in prison on Will and Grace because Eric McCormack played a murderer in a summer movie.
Just remember that the goal isn't to punish those who participate in World PvP outside the designed systems. Corruption guarantees your character a costly death. If it were account-wide, or even just server-wide, the result would make it literally never worth PKing, and that's not the goal of Intrepid.
If it were, the game wouldn't be much of a PvX game, would it? Corruption already favors PvE, from what I've seen, although it all depends on how the numbers pan out. It treats every kill as an effort to steal or harass, simply because a numerical system cannot easily tell the difference between meaningful PvP and PKing for loot. The incentive for doing nothing is challenging to work around, and can easily be abused.
I don't mean to bring the other Corruption thread into here, but I feel like it's necessary to take the above into consideration.
- Sikuba