Breaking immersion

ArchivedUser

Just found this on reddit and I totally agree regarding breaking the immersion of the game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/845wxr/was_cautiously_optimistic_about_ashes_of_creation/

What are your thoughts? 

ArchivedUser

I know the text is kinda small. Click on it to see it. Steven came on Discord to explain their thinking behind it when everyone started clutching pearls.

ArchivedUser

I think a lot of people are bent out of shape about the "concept art" vs what it will look like in game.   

With that in mind, it would probably Intrepid to put someone on the artwork for this thing so that its in game version can be seen to calm the fears of the angry masses who have already gotten the pitchforks and the torches.

This will also clear the way for them to release other stuff that might have look cartoony in the concept art but turns out looking a1.  

The good news is this first product gave them a good gauge of the sentiments of the public.  

ArchivedUser

Seeing some nimble  maga hat bullshit meme cap among products used to fund this game was far more annoying than the teddy bear. Teddy bear is a bit tasteless and almost as far removed from stuff I'd like to see orbiting a game I'm following and supporting tho!

ArchivedUser

You know I kind of feel sorry for intrepid in a way.
They might have actually wanted to go in a completely legit new direction and do something original that was consistent with their lore that we know absolutely next to zero about.
It seems going down that route was met with people with a baseball bat down a dark alley.

For the record though, I was scratching my head thinking i had entered the twilight realm of 'Ashes R Us'. Because it was so far removed from any expectations I had. Psychedelic pallettes mixed with a mundane world had me wondering, but i wrote that off as the underworld merging with the overworld at certain places.

Is it just plain wrong....or is it simply culture shock at something original.

ArchivedUser

I don't know anything about the teddy bear, but I have to agree with @Rune_Relic They might. As said I didn't see the concept art and I frankly don't care for one good reason.

I can't have any cohersion if I don't get any information at all about the state of the world, it's inhabitants, creatures and so on.  If all they give us is stuff we can buy for more funds without context. Well, wrongly done Intrepid then.

ArchivedUser

But he gave lore for the teddy bear. It is a wizards kids toy. The wizard in question animated it for his daughter when she was younger for her to ride. Or did I dream that?

ArchivedUser

No it wasnt a dream. Thats the lore. 

ArchivedUser

Bro im fine with the bear as long as the bear looks menacing. I really hate those eastern mmo that put so much junk in the cash shop that the world looks like a never ending comic con event...................... Minus the lines.

ArchivedUser

I have to agree the teddy bear is a bit offsetting but so is that swan boat. From someone who played many Asian MMOs, I don't want to see this type of "kawaii" cash shop item. 
If they want to head down a completely different art style, then transparency is needed and it's needed like yesterday. 

Now don't bring down the lightning bolts for IS just yet, like mentioned above the lore could call for things like this. I would be ok with that, as long as the lore can back up the purpose. 

ArchivedUser

Right now it is only artwork, I doubt they will put a cartooney bear in the game but it will definately resemble a plush toy

ArchivedUser

People also have to remember that what we are seeing is concept art. The actually ingame version could look a lot better.  I also think the lore should back up these concepts.  IS could also be showing us event skins and items seeing how the currents skins and items have a valentines esque look and feel to them.

ArchivedUser

Immersion is one of the most important things for me, without it, my interest won't be kept. RP is also important, the two often go hand in hand. I am really worried about this. But I'll get Steven the benefit of the doubt. I backed already, so I'll go and see what the game's about regardless.

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

Immersion is one of the most important things for me, without it, my interest won't be kept. RP is also important, the two often go hand in hand. I am really worried about this. But I'll get Steven the benefit of the doubt. I backed already, so I'll go and see what the game's about regardless.

I agree with you, but I don't think there will be much need for concern.

ArchivedUser

It belongs to a wizards kid because his wizard dad made it. Okay, that's saying it exists because it exists, we kind of knew that already didn't we? Otherwise it wouldn't be here.. or something.. <roles eyes>
Nice cohesion about the world it's cultures and inhabitants we just established as an overall picture by one cartoony teddy bear you can buy. Guess we can expect more wanky stuffed animals that you can buy. It's coherent with the world every wizard has them. Period -- Questionmark

"This wizard dad wanted to cheer his wizard kid up after he lost his first companion. Sadly he sucked at working with his hands if it didn't involve writing. It turned out as this wanky stuffed teddybear which he hexed so his son could ride around on it. At least it was made out of love."

ArchivedUser

Is there a version of why it exist that can't be boiled down to it exist because we said so?

If it's a stuffed animal and looks like one... because it is. Would it have made more sense that since it came to life it looked like a real bear? It's a skin, most that have it likely won't use it and those that do will swap it for something better later. A bit of corruption might be worth it to attack anyone riding it...

I agree, IS is going down a road with their pre-order/support cosmetics that I do not appreciate. For me, everything should look medieval in comparison with maybe a bit of magic flare added in. Then again, that would make it look like all the other games I enjoy playing.

Not sure if the image art / skin will match, but stuffed teddy mounts seem out of place. As for the background, that explains 1 existing... just 1.

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

Immersion is one of the most important things for me, without it, my interest won't be kept. RP is also important, the two often go hand in hand. I am really worried about this. But I'll get Steven the benefit of the doubt. I backed already, so I'll go and see what the game's about regardless.

This. I remember when the chopper came out in WOW and I was pissed that everyone was going to drive a bike around and how stupid would that be.

Things like this will be a game breaker for me for sure. I am picturing my crew gearing up for a fight when one of them rides up on a teddy bear. Nope. Just nope.

ArchivedUser

Mobrechael said:

Ariatras said:

Immersion is one of the most important things for me, without it, my interest won't be kept. RP is also important, the two often go hand in hand. I am really worried about this. But I'll get Steven the benefit of the doubt. I backed already, so I'll go and see what the game's about regardless.

This. I remember when the chopper came out in WOW and I was pissed that everyone was going to drive a bike around and how stupid would that be.

Things like this will be a game breaker for me for sure. I am picturing my crew gearing up for a fight when one of them rides up on a teddy bear. Nope. Just nope.

I get that point completely. And agree but it wouldnt be a game breaker. At the same time im wondering if the bear will really look as bad as everyone fears

ArchivedUser

Kataras said:

Just found this on reddit and I totally agree regarding breaking the immersion of the game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/845wxr/was_cautiously_optimistic_about_ashes_of_creation/

What are your thoughts? 

The stuffertons mount will not be a sore thumb when it comes to matching the materials and textures that are seen in the world of Ashes.  It will fit in visually, with the rest of the world.  As for the lore aspect of it, in a world as magically influenced as Verra, the concept of magically animated objects are quite common.  This mount stuffertons would likely have served as an Aelan, upper class gift to a university wizard's child, an animated toy that would serve its purpose as a means of transport between the mages tower and home.  (on a side note, as a GM in DnD and Pathfinder, I often use animated objects in my campaigns, and the truth of the matter is, that people have different tastes when it comes to their immersion.)

ArchivedUser

GMSteven said:

Kataras said:

Just found this on reddit and I totally agree regarding breaking the immersion of the game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/845wxr/was_cautiously_optimistic_about_ashes_of_creation/

What are your thoughts? 

The stuffertons mount will not be a sore thumb when it comes to matching the materials and textures that are seen in the world of Ashes.  It will fit in visually, with the rest of the world.  As for the lore aspect of it, in a world as magically influenced as Verra, the concept of magically animated objects are quite common.  This mount stuffertons would likely have served as an Aelan, upper class gift to a university wizard's child, an animated toy that would serve its purpose as a means of transport between the mages tower and home.  (on a side note, as a GM in DnD and Pathfinder, I often use animated objects in my campaigns, and the truth of the matter is, that people have different tastes when it comes to their immersion.)

Definitely agree with the part about "different tastes".  And, I have no issues with teddy bears, per se.  As a child, I slept with a stuffed bear, and enjoyed many a yesteryear memory of Teddy Ruxpin, Paddington Bear, Winnie the Pooh....and Ted.  

I'm more than willing to see where the art direction goes, for Stuffertons, and how it meshes with Ashes, stylistically, as well as thematically.  Just hoping (along with others, I presume), that it doesn't break our idea of immersion.  Cheers to open-mindedness!  

ArchivedUser

Well if "people having different taste" and "magic" is an argument, then we could likely get horse head masks as well...

It's about principle really, do you include such "out of place stuff" or no. And I think this shows the answer for AoC is yes.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Well if "people having different taste" and "magic" is an argument, then we could likely get horse head masks as well...

It's about principle really, do you include such "out of place stuff" or no. And I think this shows the answer for AoC is yes.

No horse head masks. ❤️🖖🏻 And I’d ask that you reserve what you deem out of place until you see it in game. 

ArchivedUser

GMSteven said:

Gothix said:

Well if "people having different taste" and "magic" is an argument, then we could likely get horse head masks as well...

It's about principle really, do you include such "out of place stuff" or no. And I think this shows the answer for AoC is yes.

No horse head masks. ❤️🖖🏻 And I’d ask that you reserve what you deem out of place until you see it in game. 

That is exactly what I'll do sir. Since you're here, would you mind sharing some lore on magic? Where it comes from, rarity, rules, types of schools. I'd love to start planning my character's story.  

ArchivedUser

Yay, we got "no horse head masks" confirmed!

ArchivedUser

My thoughts at the end of the day.
If its not believable and conceivable in a players imagination there will be no immersion.
The experience is so jarring its akin to walking into a brick wall.
So yes you can use the ...because magic...get out of jail free card.
But that wont make it any more believable to the players because, as steven said, everyone has their own taste.

Which is why I always think its best to stick to the realms of physical reality or at the very least scientific possibility.
No body can argue if such things are immersion breaking because it is a common frame of reference that 'everyone' can agree on and is already accepted.
The imagination does not have to make any leaps.
And as such immersion cant be broken.

But like said. I will wait and see. This could me much ado about nothing.

ArchivedUser

Ok here is the issue at hand. If at the start of the game we see fricken teddy bears what does that say about the game as a whole.  Just no. It is a game breaker because it shows that silliness will creep in far quicker than one could expect since we will be seeing it from the start.  Might as well let people mod the game and I will go find a different place to spend my money.....no teddy bears in Crowfall.

ArchivedUser

Enjoy Crowfall, it was nice having you. I am saddened by your departure, but in the end you need to be you and play what you are willing to pay for. I am not willing to pay for Cf so I will stick around a bit longer.

Silliness exist in this world. When I see someone overly dressed, with multi-colored hair, and an iguana on their shoulder I don't think, "...well life is too silly if this is going to start happening, better check out." I, unfortunately sometimes, stick around and continue paying for it.

I can expect and deal with a bit of silliness, it's just that I would have preferred IS went a different way with their skins. I am a donor not a stock-holder though, so I wasn't asked prior to them releasing the teddy-mount-skin.

I don't believe a lot of players will equip it or use it for very long. In the end it hurt IS a little bit if no one purchased the skin or some refused to purchase the bundle because they saw that and thought the same way.

ArchivedUser

Generally, i like Fantasy more then the standard medieval theme. Of course, i dont like the stuffed animal art of fantasy.

I would like to see drastically different areas with huge buildings, so i look like an ant and have a feeling about a huge world.

I would like to see ever burning grasses, new unknown elements, new physically rules. Stylish not overused raidbosses, with hard but fun gameplay (With tactics, not only dodge everything you see and you are good).

I would like to see a waterfall streaming upwards a mountain and you can drive with your ship there! i want to see pure colors and contrasts.

Sorry im am not native english speaker, if you guys need a german translator, let me know.

Greetings Sengura

ArchivedUser

I ask myself if I would have backed the game if I had the slightest inkling that the game and cash shop would become a childrens toy shop.

Then I ask myself why such a shift would only be released now and not at the beginning of kick starter, so people knew it would be a child focused game. Not that theres anything wrong with a child friendly game. I just wouldnt have invested into it, because it wouldnt have been my cup of tea. Its why I didnt touch wow with a barge pole. Smacks of a kind of dishonesty in a way.

We'll see where this goes I guess.

ArchivedUser

Well, if you thought this was bad, wait till next months bunny suit hits the store. Ohhh, and a skin for a farm plot that looks like giant, painted eggs have been planted like watermelons or pumpkins. Good times.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Well, if you thought this was bad, wait till next months bunny suit hits the store. Ohhh, and a skin for a farm plot that looks like giant, painted eggs have been planted like watermelons or pumpkins. Good times.

lol. no

I think from this point forward, the community has given feedback on the mount.  I will be more conscientious of what cosmetics hit the marketplace, and how those items are portrayed in their concept art.  There will be no immersion breaking assets, and this mount will match the world, its lore and appearance.

I am pretty big on immersion, but relying on trust from the community that all assets in-game will conform to an immersive atmosphere is probably not the best approach given the history of mmorpg's over the past so many years. It is also difficult to give in-game representations of cosmetics because our production at the moment is on getting Alpha 1 ready.  Cosmetics are scheduled to be worked on just before launch of the game.