I think the system is fine. It might need a few tweaks but as long as it keeps drooling basement dwellers from camping lowbies I am down with it.
I fully agree for corruption gain due to "killing lowbies", hell I'd even make players X levels below you unattackable completely (unless they attack first).
I could also see corruption gain for an actual griefing (following and killing same green target many, many times over for no reason) as fair mechanic.
Other than those 2 cases, imo, corruption has no place in PvX game.
Good to see you again
I don't want anyone unattackable and I'm disappointed you would suggest that mechanism haha.
I truly feel this corruption thing needs to be in a sliding scale. X levels above your kill that didn't fight back and a 2X minutes of playtime corruption. Max that 20 minutes minimum of 2. Multiple kills that don't fight back and the time stacks up to 20 minutes and the loot drop and the debuff stacks .
This enables you too defend your valuables from a new player who may have wandered into your area. It also keeps bounty Hunter on their toes. Most importantly it keeps the dirty pvpers who just want to hunt lowbies from having no consequences.
I think the system is fine. It might need a few tweaks but as long as it keeps drooling basement dwellers from camping lowbies I am down with it.
I fully agree for corruption gain due to "killing lowbies", hell I'd even make players X levels below you unattackable completely (unless they attack first).
I could also see corruption gain for an actual griefing (following and killing same green target many, many times over for no reason) as fair mechanic.
Other than those 2 cases, imo, corruption has no place in PvX game.
Where else do you expect to gain corruption?
From killing equal level characters? They would need a damn good reason to not fight back as they stand to gain from simply attempting to fight back, win or lose.
Honest question: what activity is it you want to do in game that you think will cause you corruption?
Personally, I don't like your idea of making characters that are too low a level unable to be attacked. If this happened, all people would do is create an alt, run it as far away from any of the starting areas as possible and then use it to harvest.
Suddenly you have an invulnerable harvesting character that would take a PvP player far too much time and effort to create a character to be able to take it on with.
As it is now, such a character is potentially viable, but will lose a massive amount of it's harvested resources and so probably not worth the time to any player with a max level character.
Question. Lets say I attack someone the same level as myself. They don;t fight back and I realize that they don;t wanna fight so I quit my attack and don;t kill them. Do I still get corruption?
Question. Lets say I attack someone the same level as myself. They don;t fight back and I realize that they don;t wanna fight so I quit my attack and don;t kill them. Do I still get corruption?
No.
You do get flagged as a combatant for a period of time (as yet undecided, likely around 5 minutes), however.
Question. Lets say I attack someone the same level as myself. They don;t fight back and I realize that they don;t wanna fight so I quit my attack and don;t kill them. Do I still get corruption?
No.
You do get flagged as a combatant for a period of time (as yet undecided, likely around 5 minutes), however.
Well, then i do not see the problem with the system then. If the OP attacks someone and they obviously don't wanna PVP go find someone else to kill or kill them and suck it up as the cost for irritating someone.
Look at wow's pvp changes that are happening....I know why it is happening and that is because over the lifespan of the game Blizzard has realized that they have probably lost x amount of players due to badly implemented wpvp. There really is no other reason for the changes unless Blizz deemed it necessary to save subs and as most of us know Blizz is all about the money. (nothing to to with carebears....even a devoted pvp'er gets pissed after getting 1 shotted 10 times in a row)
It is obvious that pvp and pve do not mix very well and the most obvious way to get them to work together is to have very distinct rules of engagement. Now if AoC thinks this is the way to go then lets give it a whirl. It definitely beats having a report button and it definitely beats having to play the part of a living whack a mole. if the system is wonky and a fail then I am certain we will see changes for I do not picture this game just being a cash grab.
Question. Lets say I attack someone the same level as myself. They don;t fight back and I realize that they don;t wanna fight so I quit my attack and don;t kill them. Do I still get corruption?
No.
You do get flagged as a combatant for a period of time (as yet undecided, likely around 5 minutes), however.
Well, then i do not see the problem with the system then. If the OP attacks someone and they obviously don't wanna PVP go find someone else to kill or kill them and suck it up as the cost for irritating someone.
Perfectly true.
A few seconds in to attacking a player, the attacker knows if they will get corruption or not, and so are able to make the decision as to whether or not to carry on.
@Gothix Corruption for resource competition is necessary the way i see it. If there wasn't any consequence, people would be fighting over a piece of wood 24/7 or fighting over keeping others off of hunting grounds. It'd be ridiculous and an absolute shitfest. The point of the system is to deter said shitfest and have meaningful pvp where you think about whats worth it and what isn't. You really want that wood? fight for it. But to not having any corruption means everyone fighting for a fucking piece of wood. Its more do you really need that wood that that guy is farming and absolutely cannot got to the tree right next to him because your brain is allergic to that one? then yeah fighting for wood is valuable to you and worth that corruption. The rest of us will be fighting over something rare like mithril or some shit. Risk vs Reward friend
Not that wood or mithril is confirmed its just an example
Question. Lets say I attack someone the same level as myself. They don;t fight back and I realize that they don;t wanna fight so I quit my attack and don;t kill them. Do I still get corruption?
No.
You do get flagged as a combatant for a period of time (as yet undecided, likely around 5 minutes), however.
Well, then i do not see the problem with the system then. If the OP attacks someone and they obviously don't wanna PVP go find someone else to kill or kill them and suck it up as the cost for irritating someone.
Look at wow's pvp changes that are happening....I know why it is happening and that is because over the lifespan of the game Blizzard has realized that they have probably lost x amount of players due to badly implemented wpvp. There really is no other reason for the changes unless Blizz deemed it necessary to save subs and as most of us know Blizz is all about the money. (nothing to to with carebears....even a devoted pvp'er gets pissed after getting 1 shotted 10 times in a row)
It is obvious that pvp and pve do not mix very well and the most obvious way to get them to work together is to have very distinct rules of engagement. Now if AoC thinks this is the way to go then lets give it a whirl. It definitely beats having a report button and it definitely beats having to play the part of a living whack a mole. if the system is wonky and a fail then I am certain we will see changes for I do not picture this game just being a cash grab.
Dude, you dont see it as a problem that does not mean its not one...Whats gona happen is, you chose to attack some one, of even level farming resources next to you, that guy will run away because you got the jump on him, he will move 5 steps back, you will stop attacking, he will heal up, reset, and then attack you, in which case you will do the same, run back 5 steps, he will stop attacking for the fear of the stupid corruption debuff and on and on we go until someone feels like actually committing, in which case, you can only do that couple of times before you go red and start losing XP and LVLS and GEAR, all of which makes no sense for an Open world PvP game...
There are plenty of proven good ways to prevent constant conflict over resources.... If they are low tier resources they can be put in non pvp area's to let new players start out, and high tier zones should not have any penalties for PvP, there is no reason why i should get punished because you are taking all my resources that i need to achieve a higher status at the game... same goes for the guilds....
Its not risk vs reward if there is no risk and all reward....Thats called not properly balanced gameplay... IF someone wants to pvp all day over a high tier resource.. then its their choice.... Just because someone wants to PvP does not mean 1.) they will win their fight and 2) they will fall behind because they arent actually progressing, so saying that you cant see a problem does not mean there isnt one.
Worst thing that can happen to a game like this is have a bunch of people constantly "poking" basically means hitting and running away due to fear of corruption... how much more annoying is that then actually getting a fight and possibly eliminating the enemy so he cant attack you for awhile... Oh wait, by doing that you will also get punished... Hence this system makes 0 sense from any perspective...
All this system has done is introduced confusion and annoyance already before we even get to play the game, and if you want to see how bad it is, just go test out Albion online, its almost identical system, and its horrendous.
Tons of better options while still keeping an open world element, saying "we have no safe zones, so we are going to punish you until you dont PvP anymore" is worse then having safe zones, id rather have safe zones and know i can kill someone without it not letting me play the game properly for the next few hours vs attack anyone anywhere, but wait there is hidden crap that will haunt you for the rest of your play session. Yuck.
Dude, you dont see it as a problem that does not mean its not one...Whats gona happen is, you chose to attack some one, of even level farming resources next to you, that guy will run away because you got the jump on him, he will move 5 steps back, you will stop attacking, he will heal up, reset, and then attack you, in which case you will do the same, run back 5 steps, he will stop attacking for the fear of the stupid corruption debuff and on and on we go until someone feels like actually committing, in which case, you can only do that couple of times before you go red and start losing XP and LVLS and GEAR, all of which makes no sense for an Open world PvP game...
Won't happen.
Can't happen.
You attack the player and disengage due to them not fighting back. Now, that player is green, but you are a combatant.
If he heals up and comes back to attack you, there is no corruption at all to be had by either of you from the point they attack on.
I'm not sure if I understand the problem being presented, insofar as I don't think it actually exists within the system the devs have discussed.
If you attack someone and they are not PvP tagged, then there is a simple decision making process which will alleviate any need for you to suffer punishments. If they fight back, then it's fair game and you can get on with your PvP. If they run, you can choose to A) chase them and get corruption by killing them or leave them alone and allow them to continue with their game. If they then turn around and attack you, that is then a fair fight and neither of you suffer any consequences outside of whoever dies (which is to be expected, right?)
Them continuing with their game isn't impacting on your game play (just go and find someone else to fight with), and neither are you impacting on there's (apart from the small annoyance of having to heal up any damage you've done).
The only issue I see is if you abuse this by attacking someone down to very low health and somehow getting them killed via an NPC. The obvious remedy to this is that there is some sort of damage threshold after which you get corruption for attacking.
Shut up carebear, stop reading the rules as they are, because anyone with a brain know they will be easily abused. All they have to do is wait a few minutes to deflag since none of them actually killed anyone, since you wont stay purple for ever.
Why would they wait? *They* gain nothing from waiting.
That makes no sense still. It's you that doesn't want them to attack you in that period - if they were going to attack you and they have the choice of attacking you while you are flagged or waiting until after the flag has warn off and then hope you re-flag by fighting back - why would they wait in the first place?
It isn't a new system, it isn't impossible to work the system so the outcome runs in your favor, but that is true for both sides, but it's honestly as if you don't understand the system at all yet.
^ yea, i recommend chilling and watching what happens. Looking at the flagging system and how it affects the death penalty you can tell the devs want to use it to encourage pvp. At least give them a chance.
You wanted a discussion about this or else why did you post the thread? You've now degraded into telling people to "shut up" and name calling.
You've now just lost. You have valid concern but I can't take you seriously anymore after that. Get a grip man.
I love how you keep failing to read his condescending reply while falsely accusing me of not knowing the game, and just simply reply to my post, go away if you just gona troll, we dont need wanabe mods in here
You wanted a discussion about this or else why did you post the thread? You've now degraded into telling people to "shut up" and name calling.
You've now just lost. You have valid concern but I can't take you seriously anymore after that. Get a grip man.
I love how you keep failing to read his condescending reply while falsely accusing me of not knowing the game, and just simply reply to my post, go away if you just gona troll, we dont need wanabe mods in here
Everything you just said is false.
If we are done with personal attacks, can we get back to the topic at hand?
You wanted a discussion about this or else why did you post the thread? You've now degraded into telling people to "shut up" and name calling.
You've now just lost. You have valid concern but I can't take you seriously anymore after that. Get a grip man.
I love how you keep failing to read his condescending reply while falsely accusing me of not knowing the game, and just simply reply to my post, go away if you just gona troll, we dont need wanabe mods in here
Of course I'm being condescending.
You made up a completely unrealistic scenario in an attempt to prove a point, and failed because you clearly don't understand the systems you are talking about. And to make it worse/more amusing, when this was pointed out, you came up with something even more absurd than the original scenario - "All they have to do is wait a few minutes to deflag" you say - about the player that is not flagged at all, yet wanting to attack a player tat is flagged...
I'm not sure if I understand the problem being presented, insofar as I don't think it actually exists within the system the devs have discussed.
If you attack someone and they are not PvP tagged, then there is a simple decision making process which will alleviate any need for you to suffer punishments. If they fight back, then it's fair game and you can get on with your PvP. If they run, you can choose to A) chase them and get corruption by killing them or leave them alone and allow them to continue with their game. If they then turn around and attack you, that is then a fair fight and neither of you suffer any consequences outside of whoever dies (which is to be expected, right?)
Them continuing with their game isn't impacting on your game play (just go and find someone else to fight with), and neither are you impacting on there's (apart from the small annoyance of having to heal up any damage you've done).
The only issue I see is if you abuse this by attacking someone down to very low health and somehow getting them killed via an NPC. The obvious remedy to this is that there is some sort of damage threshold after which you get corruption for attacking.
Yea I like the system pretty much as it is. The only problems I have with it is you cannot defend yourself once corrupted (greens don't flag purple, you'll only increase your corruption.) and if I attack you to chase you away from resources and you don't leave but wait for me to stop attacking and you continue to gather you have officially (in my mind) abused system mechanics. You are unwilling to defend your ability to gather and have forced me to become corrupted to stop you from taking resources. That's why I believe gathering in open world should enact a short term combatant flag (10-30 seconds).
Aside from those 2 points I'm all for it. I've never really understood the killing of someone far below your level or continually hunting someone down and killing them to prevent them from being able to play the game.
Few people asked where I will get corruption fighting equal level players, because players are incentivized to fight back because it pays off.
This is flawed logic.
There is a zerg of people that hate PvP that will not fight back regardless of circumstances. The amount of such people is so high that I will have to seize my attack more often then I will trigger a defense from a player. And I will just stand watching resources "go away" with green grinders.
Or I will have to finish attack and kill those players and reduce my stats and break my gear.
Trust me the amount of people that will not fight back is much larger than amount of people that will.
Also, even if there is only one single player that refuses to fight back but only comes to an area and keeps grinding 24/7 (and there will be a LOT of players just like that) is enough to rekt your game play.
Few of such players come and clean the area out of resources, and you can't even fight for those resources without loosing stats and breaking your gear eventually.
Again, there is HUGE number of players that will just come to an area "stay green" and grind resources 24/7 to wipe the area clean. I could bet you on anything you want this will happen.
And since resources are limited (claimed by Intrepid) and you can not fight for them in such scenario (that will happen very often) without loosing stats, and ruining your gameplay, and even gear, there will be no point in playing the game in such manner.
I can say for sure, if this is how it will be, I will not be playing. As simple as that.
I'm not sure if I understand the problem being presented, insofar as I don't think it actually exists within the system the devs have discussed.
If you attack someone and they are not PvP tagged, then there is a simple decision making process which will alleviate any need for you to suffer punishments. If they fight back, then it's fair game and you can get on with your PvP. If they run, you can choose to A) chase them and get corruption by killing them or leave them alone and allow them to continue with their game. If they then turn around and attack you, that is then a fair fight and neither of you suffer any consequences outside of whoever dies (which is to be expected, right?)
Them continuing with their game isn't impacting on your game play (just go and find someone else to fight with), and neither are you impacting on there's (apart from the small annoyance of having to heal up any damage you've done).
The only issue I see is if you abuse this by attacking someone down to very low health and somehow getting them killed via an NPC. The obvious remedy to this is that there is some sort of damage threshold after which you get corruption for attacking.
Yea I like the system pretty much as it is. The only problems I have with it is you cannot defend yourself once corrupted (greens don't flag purple, you'll only increase your corruption.) and if I attack you to chase you away from resources and you don't leave but wait for me to stop attacking and you continue to gather you have officially (in my mind) abused system mechanics. You are unwilling to defend your ability to gather and have forced me to become corrupted to stop you from taking resources. That's why I believe gathering in open world should enact a short term combatant flag (10-30 seconds).
Aside from those 2 points I'm all for it. I've never really understood the killing of someone far below your level or continually hunting someone down and killing them to prevent them from being able to play the game.
I dont get why you people keep insinuating the most random situations and making them seem as the norm when those situations are the minority....
For example "Aside from those 2 points I'm all for it. I've never really understood the killing of someone far below your level or continually hunting someone down and killing them to prevent them from being able to play the game. "
You never udnerstood what? Most people wont be killing other players "far" below their level... Or following 1 person around for hours to harras them.... That is like 1% type of behavior....And it happens both ways.... PvE players can harras other players... But that never gets mentioned From a design stand point it doesnt make any sense to give a mechanic but punish you for using it....Do you read your own post? How convoluted it sounds about you constantly trying to fend of someone from harvesting your resources? To most players who havent experienced this system this will be super annoying... PVP isnt new.... People know how to deal with by now and it is never an issue... Its just carebears trying to spread false facts that its somehow this big bad wolf that is only meant to affect their guild and no one else. Why should i get punished for killing 1 person trying to steal my resource node.... Or following me around, me killing them, and then the same person following me around from resource to resource... and i cant do anything about it because il just keep stacking corruption since he isnt attacking me but being just as annoying...Hell what hapepns when he brings friends? And all they are doing is being "innocent" little griefers who are following me from resource to resource, things that my guild needs..... I love how its never looked at from the other perspective, its always "IF YOU TOUCH ME YOU ARE A GRIEFER AND IM TELLING MOMMIE" killing someone in open world is not griefing, thats called Open world pvp... small scale pvp.....Not Zerg Vs Zerg like in siege battles or caravans...Small scale PvP is often times more fun, especially if you arent part of a gigantic guild that just runs over everyone in the battle field due to numbers... Stop with this 1 sided mentality that the only way to grief someone is to kill them, and that if you die once you are somehow a victim..
@Argentdawn yeah, not being able to defend yourself as corrupted because attackers stay green when attacking you is whole another level of stupidity, that I will not even get into lol.
I offered a solution where an action of gathering something flags you purple for amount of time. This would solve so many issues.
However many people who want to come, grind 24/7 while staying green, are obviously opposed to that.
Well if no one is fighting back and just letting themselves get killed they will probably do stuff to balance things out. Increasing the death penalty and/or decreasing the corruption penalty is all things they could do to increase the number of people who fight back. They can also offer others ways to work off corruption so it's not such a guaranteed punishment.
Few people asked where I will get corruption fighting equal level players, because players are incentivized to fight back because it pays off.
This is flawed logic.
There is a zerg of people that hate PvP that will not fight back regardless of circumstances. The amount of such people is so high that I will have to seize my attack more often then I will trigger a defense from a player. And I will just stand watching resources "go away" with green grinders.
Or I will have to finish attack and kill those players and reduce my stats and break my gear.
Trust me the amount of people that will not fight back is much larger than amount of people that will.
Also, even if there is only one single player that refuses to fight back but only comes to an area and keeps grinding 24/7 (and there will be a LOT of players just like that) is enough to rekt your game play.
Few of such players come and clean the area out of resources, and you can't even fight for those resources without loosing stats and breaking your gear eventually.
Again, there is HUGE number of players that will just come to an area "stay green" and grind resources 24/7 to wipe the area clean. I could bet you on anything you want this will happen.
And since resources are limited (claimed by Intrepid) and you can not fight for them in such scenario (that will happen very often) without loosing stats, and ruining your gameplay, and even gear, there will be no point in playing the game in such manner.
I can say for sure, if this is how it will be, I will not be playing. As simple as that.
Few people asked where I will get corruption fighting equal level players, because players are incentivized to fight back because it pays off.
This is flawed logic.
There is a zerg of people that hate PvP that will not fight back regardless of circumstances. The amount of such people is so high that I will have to seize my attack more often then I will trigger a defense from a player. And I will just stand watching resources "go away" with green grinders.
Or I will have to finish attack and kill those players and reduce my stats and break my gear.
Trust me the amount of people that will not fight back is much larger than amount of people that will.
Also, even if there is only one single player that refuses to fight back but only comes to an area and keeps grinding 24/7 (and there will be a LOT of players just like that) is enough to rekt your game play.
Few of such players come and clean the area out of resources, and you can't even fight for those resources without loosing stats and breaking your gear eventually.
Again, there is HUGE number of players that will just come to an area "stay green" and grind resources 24/7 to wipe the area clean. I could bet you on anything you want this will happen.
And since resources are limited (claimed by Intrepid) and you can not fight for them in such scenario (that will happen very often) without loosing stats, and ruining your gameplay, and even gear, there will be no point in playing the game in such manner.
I can say for sure, if this is how it will be, I will not be playing. As simple as that.
Exactly, but the carebears want to ruin another game, they are ready for this. They will cry and moan until this game becomes a brainless theme park to go out every single day knowing you are green, farm up huge amounts of resources that in all the other games would not be as easy to get, but because of the insane punishments players will stay away from killing these loot goblins.
I cant fathom how this can even be a thing....If i cant kill a person stealing my resources next to me standing in an END GAME zone without crazy punishments then why even have open world PvP enabled, stop confusing people and turn it off and let it only be sieges and caravans, i can see now some person who doesnt know this mechanic trying to small scale PvP in the open world and losing lvls and his gear just straight up rage quitting.
The flagging system is not about preventing PvP. It's about Risk versus Reward. Example:
Reward: Gathering resources that can be sold for gold is a reward. Risk: The risk associated with gathering is you might be attacked and given the choice:
Do I fight back?
Do I not fight back?
Risk: If you fight back you risk getting killed and losing the resources, but you risk lower death penalties for at least trying to defend yourself. Reward: If you fight back you may also win and get not only your resources back, but maybe some of the resources of the attacker (if they had any).
If you choose not to fight back then you will get killed and will lose a portion of your resources and the spot you were gathering at. You also suffer death penalties at 2 or 3 times the rate than if you had fought back. The flagging system is encouraging you not to just stand there and get killed if you can possibly help it. However not everyone can or will fight back. That's sad for them, but just the way it is.
For the attacker, if the player refuses to fight back, you have a choice:
Reward: I kill the player who didn't fight back and I stand to gain any dropped resources and gain control of their gathering spot. Risk: I kill the player who didn't fight back, but I will be flagged as corrupt and therefore is at risk of being hunted and killed myself. I also have higher death penalties and may drop equipped gear.
Risk to griefers: Because corruption scales with the level gap between the attacker and target, and because corruption also increases with the more greens that are killed, this additional risk also acts as a deterrent for griefing.
TL;DR The flagging system is about encouraging open world-PvP while also helping to discourage griefing. It is not about stopping PvP and it is not about stopping ganking. These things will always happen if the attacker thinks the rewards outweigh the risks! Needing to weigh the consequences of any action is by design and is a normal part of gameplay in Ashes. Those who make bad choices will pay the price, whether they are gankers or those being ganked.
Or you can just stay "green" 24/7 keep grinding and getting killed:
1. EXP death penalty does not exist on max level, since there is no deleveling 2. You only lose portion of your resources, so you can just keep grinding more, you will still accumulate resources since you aren't loosing all of them, while person attacking you is loosing his stats, and eventually his gear
I offered a solution where an action of gathering something flags you purple for amount of time. This would solve so many issues.
However many people who want to come, grind 24/7 while staying green, are obviously opposed to that.
That doesn't solve issues, that forces PvP on everyone whether they want it or not. All that would do is see people ganking harvesters while they flag - it encourages the kind of behavior Intrepid are trying to discourage.
TThe flagging system is about encouraging open world-PvP while also helping to discourage griefing. It is not about stopping PvP and it is not about stopping ganking. These things will always happen if the attacker thinks the rewards outweigh the risks!
Not only is this true, but Intrepid will maintain a balance where there will always be "some" people that consider the reward to be worth the corruption.
Once the game goes live, Intrepid have an obligation to keep the bounty system relevant, and the only way to do that is to ensure some people will generate corruption.
Comments
I don't want anyone unattackable and I'm disappointed you would suggest that mechanism haha.
I truly feel this corruption thing needs to be in a sliding scale. X levels above your kill that didn't fight back and a 2X minutes of playtime corruption. Max that 20 minutes minimum of 2. Multiple kills that don't fight back and the time stacks up to 20 minutes and the loot drop and the debuff stacks .
This enables you too defend your valuables from a new player who may have wandered into your area. It also keeps bounty Hunter on their toes. Most importantly it keeps the dirty pvpers who just want to hunt lowbies from having no consequences.
From killing equal level characters? They would need a damn good reason to not fight back as they stand to gain from simply attempting to fight back, win or lose.
Honest question: what activity is it you want to do in game that you think will cause you corruption?
Personally, I don't like your idea of making characters that are too low a level unable to be attacked. If this happened, all people would do is create an alt, run it as far away from any of the starting areas as possible and then use it to harvest.
Suddenly you have an invulnerable harvesting character that would take a PvP player far too much time and effort to create a character to be able to take it on with.
As it is now, such a character is potentially viable, but will lose a massive amount of it's harvested resources and so probably not worth the time to any player with a max level character.
You do get flagged as a combatant for a period of time (as yet undecided, likely around 5 minutes), however.
Look at wow's pvp changes that are happening....I know why it is happening and that is because over the lifespan of the game Blizzard has realized that they have probably lost x amount of players due to badly implemented wpvp. There really is no other reason for the changes unless Blizz deemed it necessary to save subs and as most of us know Blizz is all about the money. (nothing to to with carebears....even a devoted pvp'er gets pissed after getting 1 shotted 10 times in a row)
It is obvious that pvp and pve do not mix very well and the most obvious way to get them to work together is to have very distinct rules of engagement. Now if AoC thinks this is the way to go then lets give it a whirl. It definitely beats having a report button and it definitely beats having to play the part of a living whack a mole. if the system is wonky and a fail then I am certain we will see changes for I do not picture this game just being a cash grab.
A few seconds in to attacking a player, the attacker knows if they will get corruption or not, and so are able to make the decision as to whether or not to carry on.
Its more do you really need that wood that that guy is farming and absolutely cannot got to the tree right next to him because your brain is allergic to that one? then yeah fighting for wood is valuable to you and worth that corruption. The rest of us will be fighting over something rare like mithril or some shit. Risk vs Reward friend
Not that wood or mithril is confirmed its just an example
There are plenty of proven good ways to prevent constant conflict over resources.... If they are low tier resources they can be put in non pvp area's to let new players start out, and high tier zones should not have any penalties for PvP, there is no reason why i should get punished because you are taking all my resources that i need to achieve a higher status at the game... same goes for the guilds....
Its not risk vs reward if there is no risk and all reward....Thats called not properly balanced gameplay... IF someone wants to pvp all day over a high tier resource.. then its their choice.... Just because someone wants to PvP does not mean 1.) they will win their fight and 2) they will fall behind because they arent actually progressing, so saying that you cant see a problem does not mean there isnt one.
Worst thing that can happen to a game like this is have a bunch of people constantly "poking" basically means hitting and running away due to fear of corruption... how much more annoying is that then actually getting a fight and possibly eliminating the enemy so he cant attack you for awhile... Oh wait, by doing that you will also get punished... Hence this system makes 0 sense from any perspective...
All this system has done is introduced confusion and annoyance already before we even get to play the game, and if you want to see how bad it is, just go test out Albion online, its almost identical system, and its horrendous.
Tons of better options while still keeping an open world element, saying "we have no safe zones, so we are going to punish you until you dont PvP anymore" is worse then having safe zones, id rather have safe zones and know i can kill someone without it not letting me play the game properly for the next few hours vs attack anyone anywhere, but wait there is hidden crap that will haunt you for the rest of your play session. Yuck.
Can't happen.
You attack the player and disengage due to them not fighting back. Now, that player is green, but you are a combatant.
If he heals up and comes back to attack you, there is no corruption at all to be had by either of you from the point they attack on.
Learn the systems you are criticizing.
If you attack someone and they are not PvP tagged, then there is a simple decision making process which will alleviate any need for you to suffer punishments. If they fight back, then it's fair game and you can get on with your PvP. If they run, you can choose to A) chase them and get corruption by killing them or
Them continuing with their game isn't impacting on your game play (just go and find someone else to fight with), and neither are you impacting on there's (apart from the small annoyance of having to heal up any damage you've done).
The only issue I see is if you abuse this by attacking someone down to very low health and somehow getting them killed via an NPC. The obvious remedy to this is that there is some sort of damage threshold after which you get corruption for attacking.
Do I need to call the adults in here?
You wanted a discussion about this or else why did you post the thread? You've now degraded into telling people to "shut up" and name calling.
You've now just lost. You have valid concern but I can't take you seriously anymore after that. Get a grip man.
That makes no sense still. It's you that doesn't want them to attack you in that period - if they were going to attack you and they have the choice of attacking you while you are flagged or waiting until after the flag has warn off and then hope you re-flag by fighting back - why would they wait in the first place?
It isn't a new system, it isn't impossible to work the system so the outcome runs in your favor, but that is true for both sides, but it's honestly as if you don't understand the system at all yet.
If we are done with personal attacks, can we get back to the topic at hand?
You made up a completely unrealistic scenario in an attempt to prove a point, and failed because you clearly don't understand the systems you are talking about. And to make it worse/more amusing, when this was pointed out, you came up with something even more absurd than the original scenario - "All they have to do is wait a few minutes to deflag" you say - about the player that is not flagged at all, yet wanting to attack a player tat is flagged...
You don't deserve anything more than that.
Appreciate the passion in this thread but please keep it focussed on the issues rather than the individuals stating their opinions
The developers love to get feedback, negative or positive. Keep it coming
Aside from those 2 points I'm all for it. I've never really understood the killing of someone far below your level or continually hunting someone down and killing them to prevent them from being able to play the game.
This is flawed logic.
There is a zerg of people that hate PvP that will not fight back regardless of circumstances. The amount of such people is so high that I will have to seize my attack more often then I will trigger a defense from a player. And I will just stand watching resources "go away" with green grinders.
Or I will have to finish attack and kill those players and reduce my stats and break my gear.
Trust me the amount of people that will not fight back is much larger than amount of people that will.
Also, even if there is only one single player that refuses to fight back but only comes to an area and keeps grinding 24/7 (and there will be a LOT of players just like that) is enough to rekt your game play.
Few of such players come and clean the area out of resources, and you can't even fight for those resources without loosing stats and breaking your gear eventually.
Again, there is HUGE number of players that will just come to an area "stay green" and grind resources 24/7 to wipe the area clean. I could bet you on anything you want this will happen.
And since resources are limited (claimed by Intrepid) and you can not fight for them in such scenario (that will happen very often) without loosing stats, and ruining your gameplay, and even gear, there will be no point in playing the game in such manner.
I can say for sure, if this is how it will be, I will not be playing. As simple as that.
However many people who want to come, grind 24/7 while staying green, are obviously opposed to that.
For example "Aside from those 2 points I'm all for it. I've never really understood the killing of someone far below your level or continually hunting someone down and killing them to prevent them from being able to play the game. "
You never udnerstood what? Most people wont be killing other players "far" below their level... Or following 1 person around for hours to harras them.... That is like 1% type of behavior....And it happens both ways.... PvE players can harras other players... But that never gets mentioned
From a design stand point it doesnt make any sense to give a mechanic but punish you for using it....Do you read your own post? How convoluted it sounds about you constantly trying to fend of someone from harvesting your resources? To most players who havent experienced this system this will be super annoying...
PVP isnt new.... People know how to deal with by now and it is never an issue... Its just carebears trying to spread false facts that its somehow this big bad wolf that is only meant to affect their guild and no one else.
Why should i get punished for killing 1 person trying to steal my resource node.... Or following me around, me killing them, and then the same person following me around from resource to resource... and i cant do anything about it because il just keep stacking corruption since he isnt attacking me but being just as annoying...Hell what hapepns when he brings friends? And all they are doing is being "innocent" little griefers who are following me from resource to resource, things that my guild needs.....
I love how its never looked at from the other perspective, its always "IF YOU TOUCH ME YOU ARE A GRIEFER AND IM TELLING MOMMIE" killing someone in open world is not griefing, thats called Open world pvp... small scale pvp.....Not Zerg Vs Zerg like in siege battles or caravans...Small scale PvP is often times more fun, especially if you arent part of a gigantic guild that just runs over everyone in the battle field due to numbers...
Stop with this 1 sided mentality that the only way to grief someone is to kill them, and that if you die once you are somehow a victim..
They have levers to work with.
I cant fathom how this can even be a thing....If i cant kill a person stealing my resources next to me standing in an END GAME zone without crazy punishments then why even have open world PvP enabled, stop confusing people and turn it off and let it only be sieges and caravans, i can see now some person who doesnt know this mechanic trying to small scale PvP in the open world and losing lvls and his gear just straight up rage quitting.
Reward: Gathering resources that can be sold for gold is a reward.
Risk: The risk associated with gathering is you might be attacked and given the choice:
- Do I fight back?
- Do I not fight back?
Risk: If you fight back you risk getting killed and losing the resources, but you risk lower death penalties for at least trying to defend yourself.Reward: If you fight back you may also win and get not only your resources back, but maybe some of the resources of the attacker (if they had any).
If you choose not to fight back then you will get killed and will lose a portion of your resources and the spot you were gathering at. You also suffer death penalties at 2 or 3 times the rate than if you had fought back. The flagging system is encouraging you not to just stand there and get killed if you can possibly help it. However not everyone can or will fight back. That's sad for them, but just the way it is.
For the attacker, if the player refuses to fight back, you have a choice:
Reward: I kill the player who didn't fight back and I stand to gain any dropped resources and gain control of their gathering spot.
Risk: I kill the player who didn't fight back, but I will be flagged as corrupt and therefore is at risk of being hunted and killed myself. I also have higher death penalties and may drop equipped gear.
Risk to griefers: Because corruption scales with the level gap between the attacker and target, and because corruption also increases with the more greens that are killed, this additional risk also acts as a deterrent for griefing.
TL;DR The flagging system is about encouraging open world-PvP while also helping to discourage griefing. It is not about stopping PvP and it is not about stopping ganking. These things will always happen if the attacker thinks the rewards outweigh the risks! Needing to weigh the consequences of any action is by design and is a normal part of gameplay in Ashes. Those who make bad choices will pay the price, whether they are gankers or those being ganked.
And that's why my panties remain bunch-less. Plus we just don't know enough to condemn it yet.
Or you can just stay "green" 24/7 keep grinding and getting killed:
1. EXP death penalty does not exist on max level, since there is no deleveling
2. You only lose portion of your resources, so you can just keep grinding more, you will still accumulate resources since you aren't loosing all of them, while person attacking you is loosing his stats, and eventually his gear
You win.
That isn't what AoC is about.
Not only is this true, but Intrepid will maintain a balance where there will always be "some" people that consider the reward to be worth the corruption.
Once the game goes live, Intrepid have an obligation to keep the bounty system relevant, and the only way to do that is to ensure some people will generate corruption.